Pro-life: why? - the workings of your capi minds [Archive]

mentalbunny

29th December 2002, 16:21

In politics we're having a discussion as to why so many right-wingers seem to be pro-life and anti-abortion. I would like to hear what they have to say for themselves, and try to avoid coming up with the religious crap, it's such a cliché!

I'd like to see what the capis have to say for themselves before any lefties say what they think of the capi reasons, just so I know, so if any lefties could restrain themselves until I know what these pro-lifers think, then I'd really appreciate it!

Stormin Norman

29th December 2002, 17:56

You already know my thoughts on the matter, Mentalbunny. The high court has already ruled on a womans liberty to control her ability to reproduce. Therefore, I too am pro-choice. As is always the case in life, there are right choices and there are wrong choices. When you have an abortion, not only are you poisoning yourself, but you are terminating a life. Those are the facts. I suggest anybody caught in a situation where abortion is being considered as an option fully consider the gravity of their decision. Can you live with the fact that you took another human life? If so, then be my guest, utilize the right bestowed upon you by the high court. If not, own up for your responsibilities as the parent of a child. Whatever decision you make, it affects the life of a being not privy to the same luxury of choice as yourself.

Like it or not, right and wrong, black and white are fundamental truths. You can justify your acts by evoking the law of the land, or your own perception that universal truths do not exist. However, perceptions will not change reality. In reality you terminated a life. I can only ask you whether or not that action is wrong. The answer is as plain as day.

When I was faced with such a decision, I would not let the blood be on my hands. I would not acquiesce. I would not allow my soul to be forever scarred by such an important decision. Trying to do what was right, I pleaded for the life of my child. I agreed to commit to the woman I loved enough to plant my seed in. I agreed to the heavy responsibility of raising a child and starting a family. I agreed to face up to reality.

Now I live a much harder life than I would have had I simply paid $250 and destroyed whatever love I had for my significant other. Then again, now I know what I would have been throwing away.

I don't believe life is to be discarded as a bloody heap in a pop-top trash bin. However ridiculous you believe my position on abortion to be, I am confident that I am taking a just stance on the matter. I know this is not contemporary thinking. Quite honestly, I don't care. I don't wish to interfer with your ability to conduct this vile practice, but I can not condone it either.

synthesis

29th December 2002, 19:19

Like it or not, right and wrong, black and white are fundamental truths.

They are, and always will be, subjective.

Nothing is ever universally correct, and nothing is ever universally incorrect. You will find a supporter for every inept dictator that has existed, from Stalin to Somoza, and you will find a critic of every successful leader as well.

Saying that you are, without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely correct on everything you say proves you to be a moron. Go figure.

HankMorgan

29th December 2002, 19:40

I'm confused by the abortion issue.

Two women become pregnant on the same day. Later on another day the both walk into the same clinic at the same time. Both have an examination using an ultrasound machine.

The first woman takes the image produced by the ultrasound machine home and posts it up with a magnet on the door of her refrigerator. She points to the image on the refrigerator and calls it the baby's first picture.

The second women has an unwanted lump of flesh removed from her womb in an abortion procedure.

What does the ultrasound machine reveal? Does the image show a child or an unwanted lump of flesh?

NiGHTRaVeN

29th December 2002, 20:24

This discussion has been going on for some time, and I think it is right for a pregnant woman to get an abortion. Why do you ask? Well simply because of this. In this (capitalistic) society you have got to make it on your own and will not be helped (or at least not much) by the goverment. This results in a for the pregnant woman very uncomfortable situation. If she decides to keep the child maybe she will not be able to support it, due whatever the reasons.

I think that some people just don't understand what a burden a child can be. Do you think it is fair to destroy that pregnant womans life? Because that is what you are doing. In the one hand you have the unborn childs life and in the other the mothers life.

And when you talk of "murdering" the unborn child, what about throwing bomb on Afghanistan and Iraq? Isn't that also murder?

I agree with the facts that there are no final or fundamental truths, but humans always have to have some rules. Therefore some decisions have to be made.

Stormin Norman

29th December 2002, 20:42

This results in a for the pregnant woman very uncomfortable situation.

Heaven forbid, we wouldn't want anyone to be uncomfortable now would we. If that were the case no women would continue their pregnancy and the species would fail to propagate.

I think that some people just don't understand what a burden a child can be.

I said what I did knowing all to well what a burden a child can be. They are a pain in the ass sometimes, especially when they are 2 years old. They do stress the wallet and it takes a lot of work to raise them.

Basically what you are saying is this. Because we don't have the cradle to grave welfare system that you support, women should kill their youth so they don't actually have to be responsible for them. What is it about being responsible for either your own actions or business transactions that you find deplorable. Tell your boyfriend to get a vasectomy in order to prevent you from taking life. Wouldn't that be more ethical?

Lysenko

29th December 2002, 22:11

We should not claim that a fetus is a human life. Remember, in roman times, one wasnt considered human until he or she could walk. Killing or abandoning children before that time would be acceptable.

Thus we must put things in perspective. Now, we are claiming a fetus is alive.

Now, if we are so worried about this glob of cells, why dont we have rights and priveleges granted to amebas? Are they too not just a glob of cellular mass. In fact, it can be argued they are more alive than a human fertilized egg/zygote.

So if God cares so much about a lifeless mass in a human, i am sure he should be worried about all the poor amebas and paramecium who die.

However, on the other hand, some teenage slut who has sex with 50 people and becomes pregnant 30 times and has abortions each tiome should be sterilized. Similar treatment for the father/s but that is abusing the system.

truthaddict11

30th December 2002, 00:17

Quote: from Lysenko on 5:11 pm on Dec. 29, 2002
We should not claim that a fetus is a human life. Remember, in roman times, one wasnt considered human until he or she could walk. Killing or abandoning children before that time would be acceptable.

Thus we must put things in perspective. Now, we are claiming a fetus is alive.

Now, if we are so worried about this glob of cells, why dont we have rights and priveleges granted to amebas? Are they too not just a glob of cellular mass. In fact, it can be argued they are more alive than a human fertilized egg/zygote.

So if God cares so much about a lifeless mass in a human, i am sure he should be worried about all the poor amebas and paramecium who die.

However, on the other hand, some teenage slut who has sex with 50 people and becomes pregnant 30 times and has abortions each tiome should be sterilized. Similar treatment for the father/s but that is abusing the system.

I am against sterilizationof anybody. Madak why do you believe that anyone who gets pregnant or gets someone pregnant a certain amount of times needs to be sterilized?

queen of diamonds

30th December 2002, 01:10

Should abortion be legalised? Probably - if nothing else, at least women'll only have abortions in relatively sanitary conditions.

Is abortion right? I don't think it's for any of us to judge that. As a capitalist, I think it's everyone's choice, and if we come to that decision, we can make it for ourselves, but it's not for us to say whether it's right or wrong.

synthesis

30th December 2002, 01:59

Should abortion be legalised? Probably - if nothing else, at least women'll only have abortions in relatively sanitary conditions.

Queen of Diamonds makes an excellent point.

Making abortion illegal would have many of the same risks as the illegalization of heroin. Most of the danger associated directly with heroin use (i.e. not having to do with the lifestyle, or the appetite loss resulting in a state near anorexia) are the direct result of the drug being illegal.

Overdoses do not happen, for the most part, because the user decides to go on a major heroin binge. Overdoses happen because the user has moved to a new area or found a new dealer that sells a different variety of heroin than he or she had used previously. Thusly, the user has no way of telling what the potency of the heroin is, or, for that matter, what other white, powdery substances are contained within their dimebag of smack.

So, the addict proceeds to inject his or her usual amount, and, as a result, may put into his or her system more heroin than the human body can handle, and, as a result, they OD.

For the record, I am not in favor of legalizing heroin; actually, I would like the penalties to be increased. However, it serves to illustrate my point: if abortion is outlawed, the practice will still continue at much the same rate, but posing many more health hazards to the woman having the abortion, and, in some cases, the doctor delivering the abortion.

Feminists of olde, namely those predating the turn of the 20th century, often preached against abortion, because it killed the woman involved in something around 80% of cases.

But you know what? Women will continue to have abortions, even after it is illegal, much the same as addicts will continue to use heroin after it is illegal. Therefore, it is in the woman's best interests, and therefore society's best interests, to keep abortion legal.

If it is illegal, the working class will suffer, because those who opt to abort risk death and those who opt not to are burdened with another expense that enriches the ruling class in the form of doctors charging outrageous prices for their services, since it is now an expensive black market.

Abortion, then, becomes another luxury that only the rich are able to afford in safety and security.

-D'yer Mak'er

(Edited by DyerMaker at 2:02 am on Dec. 30, 2002)

Anonymous

30th December 2002, 02:08

a pro-life isnt necessarly a right winger, the abortion dilema is more for theliberal/authoritarian side...

i used tobe pro-life, but now, after somethinking im coolwith abortion, though i dontadvice unecessary abortions likethe "OMG im only 20!imust abort" but its your body do what you want with it..

yet i believe that abortion should only be legal until the fetus has less than 3 months, after that is alredy a baby and as soo deserves life...

Anonymous

30th December 2002, 02:14

plus i think legalizing is the way, even if abortions arent legal desesperated womenwould still make them, expecially poor familys, those wouldnthaveto resortto "homemade"abortions, that are so dangerous, my grandgrand mother made some, and i think that should stop, legalize is the only way...

but i alsohave the opinion that with a proper education, expecially sexual education, abortion wouldnt be such a problem, since a good education is the key, if preventionis made, drastic actions are unecessary..

HankMorgan

30th December 2002, 02:33

I made my earlier post just to see what the reaction would be.

Stormin Norman says what I think better than I can on this issue. Yes, it should be legal but don't kid yourself,
abortion is murder.

El Brujo

30th December 2002, 02:45

Isn't there already a thread about this in politics? Anyhow, yes, "pro-life" is a bunch of chauvinistic, fundamentalist bullshit. Most people who are "pro-life" are christian fundamentalists that believe its a "sin" to abort (yet they find it reasonable to allow children, including unwanted births, to die of hunger when they are already conscious).

Anonymous

30th December 2002, 02:59

abortion is NOT murder, fanatism is, and right now you are being fanatic....fanatic and right winger...

HankMorgan

30th December 2002, 03:29

OK...if you sleep better at night, anarchist. Talk about a fanatic.

Lysenko

30th December 2002, 03:32

Madak why do you believe that anyone who gets pregnant or gets someone pregnant a certain amount of times needs to be sterilized?

In a word yes. In fact, after one child, this should happen. anything to prevent more people on earth. 3 billion is too much. 6 billion is despicable. Humans are like rats. They infest everything. With such a large amount, nothing can survive on earth.

Humans can easily be viewed as another species of pest. We are probably the most destructive pest of all.

Excuse my rant. I must have had to vent.

Overpopulation disgusts me.

synthesis

30th December 2002, 03:46

In a word yes.

What about pregnancy by rape?

If you say yes to that, I think you should be sterilized.

(Edited by DyerMaker at 3:47 am on Dec. 30, 2002)

Lysenko

30th December 2002, 03:53

alright thats different. I am not tlaking about that.

truthaddict11

30th December 2002, 11:28

what if a child dies? that person is not going to have another child ever in your plan. How many people should be on this planet in your opinion Mazdak?if 3 Billion is too much for you. there is about 2 billion people in China and India! Should they be considered pests? or an infestation?
anything to prevent more people on earth?
what the fuck is that!

Sirion

30th December 2002, 12:52

In my opinion, all this talk about overpopulation and murder is irrelevant. I do, however, belive that a woman must have abortion opition (since we got the technology) if she can call herself truly set equal to man in society. Many women will consider this murder, well, thats fine, she has the option, but keeps the kid. Which is great, we got to have new kids if the human race are to survive. But, if bad luck strikes, and you find yourself pregnant, and tries to get an abortion. Then, a doctor you speak to says: "Sorry, abortion is illegal, because even if it is a part of your body, you are commiting homicide against another being."

If a woman can't decide over her own body, how can she ever feel liberated?

NiGHTRaVeN

30th December 2002, 15:02

Well...what is really the question here? It seems the question moved from: Is it legal? -> Is it murder?

I don't think it is murder but I can see why other-minded think it is. Also I do think abortion should be ever legalized so that you can have the option as Sirion so greatly said. It should be legal and any woman should think for herself if she takes the abortion or doesn't take the abortion

Lysenko

30th December 2002, 16:57

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 11:28 am on Dec. 30, 2002
what if a child dies? that person is not going to have another child ever in your plan. How many people should be on this planet in your opinion Mazdak?if 3 Billion is too much for you. there is about 2 billion people in China and India! Should they be considered pests? or an infestation?
anything to prevent more people on earth?
what the fuck is that!

So what? if the child dies thats not the governments fault. then even better, less than 3 billion are in the world draining its resources.

"Should they be considered pests?"
Yes. Do you consider 2-3 billion rats an infestation? They infest a house the way humans infest a country.

"anything to prevent more people on earth?
what the fuck is that!"

THAT is preventing the waste of resources, the starvation, the destruction of the rainforests and giving the individual the chance to get further.

THAT is what would put the world on track.

Do me a favor and walk down a street in New York City, or Bejing.
Now how is it even right to have cities wear it is nearly impossible to walk thanks to the huge crowds?

mentalbunny

30th December 2002, 17:42

Thanks for your responses, but I'd like more reasons why than opinions, this is turning out to be a general deabate on abortion:good or bad, when I wanted pro-life reasons, but that's ok.

I have to say, for once I think Stormin Norman makes some sense and I respect his maturity in taking on a child and a family.

El Che

30th December 2002, 21:20

I am pro-life.

rebel with a cause

31st December 2002, 06:55

What really confuses me is how many on the right can be pro-life, but pro-death peanlty. Once they have commited a crime do we no longer consider them human? How is electricuting them or injecting them with lethal drugs not murder?

Someone please explain

Anonymous

31st December 2002, 07:40

When a man, by his own free will takes the life of another human being, his own life automatically becomes forfiet. He has shown that he no longer respects other's right to life, and so has his own taken away from him. However, the unborn child destroyed in an abortion, their only crime is simply existing as an inconveniance to the mother. Now don't get me wrong, I support the mother's right to her own body, but I'll never condone the slaughter of the innocence.

mentalbunny

1st January 2003, 13:24

Quote: from El Che on 9:20 pm on Dec. 30, 2002
I am pro-life.

Why?

Crusader 4 da truth

2nd January 2003, 20:21

There seems to be some confusion on these posts and I’m surprised no one has yet addressed it. Capitalism is an economic system, while abortion is social issue. The two really have no bearing on one another. Capitalism is not inherently pro choice or pro life. For example libertarians believe in limited government and the free enterprise system but would adamantly oppose what they would see a government intrusion on a private matter.

I think the question you intended to ask is why are conservatives (myself included) overwhelmingly pro life. Many people that are pro-choice have the misconception that this belief is solely biased on religion, and that therefore it is some how invalid. This is erroneous, I know several non-religious people who are pro-life (even a couple of socialists). Their problem with abortion is one of morality, conservatives strongly believe in the rights of man, freedom speech, movement, the right to self-determination, and self-defense. They extend these rights to the unborn, that’s the intellectual thrust behind their argument.

This all leads to an obvious question, would you ban it? On this the conservative community is split. Some (including myself) take a pragmatic approach and say it would be preferable to reduce the number of abortions that occur (eliminating them is a fantasy). Community activists and schools should stress responsible behavior, and reform adoption laws to make it easier for women considering an abortion to have other options. In addition they believe that the government should not subsidence programs that encourage abortions as a form of birth control.

These issues are very complicated and often emotion gets in the way of rational discourse. It’s a painful topic no mater what side you are on the key is to respect other peoples opinions and work to persuade people rather then forcing anything on them.

(Edited by Crusader 4 da truth at 9:08 pm on Jan. 2, 2003)

themanwill

3rd January 2003, 00:15

Putting up children for adoption is not the way out. Today two lesbians, never mind an infertile couple, can have a baby if they want, using their own DNA. So why would anyone want to adopt someone elses unwanted baby, if they can have their own?

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

3rd January 2003, 00:34

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 7:40 am on Dec. 31, 2002
When a man, by his own free will takes the life of another human being, his own life automatically becomes forfiet. He has shown that he no longer respects other's right to life, and so has his own taken away from him. However, the unborn child destroyed in an abortion, their only crime is simply existing as an inconveniance to the mother. Now don't get me wrong, I support the mother's right to her own body, but I'll never condone the slaughter of the innocence.

How bout in a war? The USA is pretty war eagered and the soldiers kill a lot of people. When those soldiers come home, they have no problem with killing people. Their respect towards other people has been taken away. Recently there were in one month 4 wives murdered by their own husbands at some military facility in the US. Those 4 men were members of special forces units and para's. And all just returned from Afganistan. Sure they killed someone there. When they returned they had no respect for people and had no psychological barriere anymore to kill others. And so it happened.

Tkinter1

3rd January 2003, 00:43

Is anyone following what CCCP is saying?

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

3rd January 2003, 01:52

Sorry I had a headache. DarkCaptalist sayed that you should deathsentence murderers and I ment that soldiers have broken a sort of psychological barriere just like murderers. That psychological barriere keeps someone from murdering.

So actually you should deathsentence soldiers too.

bombeverything

3rd January 2003, 02:00

Quote: from the anarchist on 2:08 am on Dec. 30, 2002
a pro-life isnt necessarly a right winger, the abortion dilema is more for theliberal/authoritarian side...

Word. I am definitely pro-choice. I think abortion is morally wrong when it is used as birth control, however I believe the choice should remain with the mother. I am not a fan of fascism.

Crusader 4 da truth

3rd January 2003, 05:42

“So why would anyone want to adopt someone elses unwanted baby, if they can have their own?”

themanwill Adoption doesn’t only occur with infertile couples, some people adopt because they feel they have a moral responsibility to do so. They realize that many children are with out homes for a variety of reasons and feel compelled to act. My girlfriend and I have often talked about adopting children (when we get married). I realize this is somewhat cultural and certain cultures it is not all that common but in America there is a network of foster parents that the state places children whose parents are abusive or other wise negligent. Often times adoption law (it differs by state) is so complicated and muddled that it cost less for Americans to adopt overseas (Russia, china, and Korea mostly). All am saying is that law should not impede couples who are willing to adopt a child from doing so.

bombeverything

3rd January 2003, 07:34

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 7:40 am on Dec. 31, 2002
When a man, by his own free will takes the life of another human being, his own life automatically becomes forfiet. He has shown that he no longer respects other's right to life, and so has his own taken away from him. However, the unborn child destroyed in an abortion, their only crime is simply existing as an inconveniance to the mother. Now don't get me wrong, I support the mother's right to her own body, but I'll never condone the slaughter of the innocence.

That makes alot of sense ... kill someone who has killed someone else to teach that killing is WRONG. Hmm, really intelligent. Also you say that you support the mother's right to her own body yet you cannot 'condone abortion'. Are you saying it should be illegal? If so, isn't that a contradiction in itself?

synthesis

3rd January 2003, 09:26

CCCP, the reason that so many men came back from Afghanistan with extreme violent tendencies is because the U.S. military gave them malaria medicine that had a "side effect" of creating explosive anger.

Sort of pissed me off when I heard it, so I felt I ought to bring it up.

Stormin Norman

3rd January 2003, 10:19

Dyermaker,

Could you provide a source for that information? I am definetely interested. I don't think there were a lot of people coming back violent, but I have heard of one or two incidents. That's hardly enough of a reason to suggest convicting them of thought crimes as CCCP suggests. Killing your unborn child and killing in the defense of freedom have no moral equivalence at all, and I don't think anyone but Mazdak would suggest killing a woman who got in trouble.

Anonymous

3rd January 2003, 17:53

Quote: from bombeverything on 12:34 pm on Jan. 3, 2003

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 7:40 am on Dec. 31, 2002
When a man, by his own free will takes the life of another human being, his own life automatically becomes forfiet. He has shown that he no longer respects other's right to life, and so has his own taken away from him. However, the unborn child destroyed in an abortion, their only crime is simply existing as an inconveniance to the mother. Now don't get me wrong, I support the mother's right to her own body, but I'll never condone the slaughter of the innocence.

That makes alot of sense ... kill someone who has killed someone else to teach that killing is WRONG. Hmm, really intelligent. Also you say that you support the mother's right to her own body yet you cannot 'condone abortion'. Are you saying it should be illegal? If so, isn't that a contradiction in itself?

The point is not to educate but rather to administer justice. I could care less if the death penalty deters crime.

As for my remarks regarding abortion, I've been a bit confused lately. While I support a woman's right to here body, I still believe abortion ultimately results in the death of an innocent life.

Lardlad95

3rd January 2003, 18:53

Question to al the conservatives.

You got all these Republicans talking about the American way of life, the freedom to Choose

yet practiacaly all republicans are pro-life.

now shouldn't women have the right to CHOOSE to have an abortion or not?

It's hypocritical

I personally think abortion is wrong but it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies

Tkinter1

3rd January 2003, 20:23

"I personally think abortion is wrong but it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies"

It's not their bodies that people are worried about. It's whats inside those bodies.

Lardlad95

3rd January 2003, 20:28

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 8:23 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
"I personally think abortion is wrong but it's not my place to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies"

It's not their bodies that people are worried about. It's whats inside those bodies.

The Fetus is not a sentient being, it has not the power of reason, it can't think, it has no memory

at best it is a plant, a vegetable, a comatose organism

but then a gain a I like plants so I don't think it deserves to die

however it isn't sentient.

Anonymous

3rd January 2003, 20:41

I would consider a fetus during the third trimester to be fairly sentient and quite human.

Lardlad95

3rd January 2003, 20:44

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 8:41 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
I would consider a fetus during the third trimester to be fairly sentient and quite human.

yes during the third trimester

make abortions during teh third tri-mester illegal

not them as a whole

RedComrade

3rd January 2003, 23:23

Keep Big Brother out of the womb of a 15 year old girl. While I do not necessarily support or oppose using abortion I would never be in favor of taking that right away from someone. If the fetus lacks the ability to communicate and interact with its environment though I wouldnt necessarily consider it human seeing as it does not meet any of the standards that seperate humans from animals it only has a potential to meet those standards. Endangered species in the wild that are slowly evolving into more humanoid beings and have the potential to one day be as humans are and are becoming extinct due to destruction of their natural habitat are just like that fetus. Surely you cappies are in favor of laws (kyoto treaty, nature preserves etc.) that allow them to reach their full potential since mass industrialization and capitalism are denying those creatures that potential just as abortion does to babies?

bombeverything

4th January 2003, 04:54

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:53 pm on Jan. 3, 2003

The point is not to educate but rather to administer justice. I could care less if the death penalty deters crime.

I see your point, but what exactly does that achieve? 'Justice' is a means of organised violence. Killing is never justified. People need to look at the reasons behind crime [rather than this simplistic form of 'evil' that so many people tend to cling to]. The world is not black and white, this is not some sort of Hollywood movie where there are "the good guys" and "the bad guys". As Tolstoy claimed, the government 'claims a moral right to inflict physical penalities, and by it's decree to make murder a good action'. There is nothing moral about murder.

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:53 pm on Jan. 3, 2003

As for my remarks regarding abortion, I've been a bit confused lately. While I support a woman's right to here body, I still believe abortion ultimately results in the death of an innocent life.

Fair enough, so do I. However, like I said before, I believe the choice MUST be left up to the mother.

truthaddict11

4th January 2003, 05:08

here is a anti-feminist/abortion quote whoever guesses first right gets a congratulations from me.
This shows how the religious right really is against womens rights.
"Feminism is a Socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave thier husbands, kill thier children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians" (hint: he has his own televison show)

RedComrade

4th January 2003, 05:15

Pat Buchannon??

RedComrade

4th January 2003, 05:21

Yo man i think i was wrong but im preety damn sure i know who it is can we have 3 guesses?

synthesis

4th January 2003, 07:10

Abraham Foxman?

Zozothedog

4th January 2003, 09:08

personally I am pro choice,

I am also pro guns, pro drugs, pro prostitution, ect ect... I do not feel I have the right to impose my beliefs on others, I think if a women wants an abortion, its probley not just for fun, there's probably a reason. a good valid reason, that we not being them, can not fully understand,

truthaddict11

4th January 2003, 13:56

Quote: from RedComrade on 12:21 am on Jan. 4, 2003
Yo man i think i was wrong but im preety damn sure i know who it is can we have 3 guesses?

yeah sure you can guess again it is up to the first person who can get it right

RedComrade

4th January 2003, 21:08

Pat Robertson that pyshco from the religious right?

Tkinter1

4th January 2003, 22:35

"The Fetus is not a sentient being, it has not the power of reason, it can't think, it has no memory

at best it is a plant, a vegetable, a comatose organism

but then a gain a I like plants so I don't think it deserves to die

however it isn't sentient."

They might argue that no one man has the right to take the life of what will become a human. They might argue that what's inside them is not their body.

Mazdak

4th January 2003, 22:39

Tkinter, an ameba might evolve into something humanoid in a few million years. Once again, should we try to fervently ban harming them too?

Anonymous

5th January 2003, 00:08

A fetus can move, hear sounds, react to external stimuli, as well as remember it's mother's voice. To me a fetus, (at least during the latter stages of pregnancy) is fully human and very alive.

Mazdak

5th January 2003, 00:37

Maybe in the later stages, but i am talking the first 3 months.. The thing has no ears, it is simply a blob.

man in the red suit

5th January 2003, 01:08

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:08 am on Jan. 5, 2003
A fetus can move, hear sounds, react to external stimuli, as well as remember it's mother's voice. To me a fetus, (at least during the latter stages of pregnancy) is fully human and very alive.

how is a fetus going to remember it's mothers voice when it is inside of the womb. All it hears is amniotic fluid flowing around him.

react to external stimuli eh? what big words coming from a capitalist. Do you actually know what this means i wonder.

yes fetuses can move. I can name about a 100 different things that move and are not living. What's your point?

a fetus can hear, yes, so can a squirrel, you wouldn't object to shooting his ass with a pellet gun would you?