Communist Oppression

[Periodic]

First, im going to say, this is not intended for; Capitalist propaganda, for spam, for Anti-Socialism/Anti-Communism, it is merely a question!

I've been making sure i get both sides of the field with Socialism, and found several sites taking about oppression to the workers in China and North Korea. I understand most of your views saying China is not Socialist, but it still does show some Socialistic actions.

I can't post a link to one of the websites :(

So, the question is, why would Socialism do this, when it promises a workers state/ or is it propaganda and why/how.

Thanks in advance.

[BIG BROTHER]

Basically this is because the revolution, and the workers state develops a bureaucratic caste. This means that although the mode of the production of a socialist country is a socialist one, or at least the bourgeoisie have been overthrown and the country is going on a socialist process, the bureaucracy assumes power in order to secure its own interests at the expense of the workers.

In china the revolution lead by Mao Zedong was composed by peasants and not workers. This makes it easy for the bureaucracy to take over since the peasants are dispersed, and can't make or at least is harder for them to make democratic institutions like the Soviets.

[xAtlasx]

Well simply put, North Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship that exploits workers worse than Czarist Russia did.

China is making a great lurch toward capitalism whilst still retaining the control of the party over the nation as a whole. Seems as though the "People's Republic" may transform into a new version of Pinochet's Chile... They had so much promise, but alas...

Is the information propaganda? To a certain degree yes, the lives of those in China grew manifestly better after the civil war. But North Korea is a problem for socialism. The North Koreans are no longer a Socialist state, they instead seem to be a theocracy with Kim Jong Ill as their god figure, while still proclaiming themselves socialist.

Are the nations bad for the workers? Absolutely. But this is because the party leaders have taken socialism and twisted it in order to benefit themselves.

[Decolonize The Left]

Periodic:

So, the question is, why would Socialism do this, when it promises a workers state/ or is it propaganda and why/how.

1) "Socialism" didn't do anything. :lol: Socialism is a political philosophy, not a free agent. Furthermore, as it is a political philosophy, it is free to be manipulated/misunderstood/abused/etc... by whomever for whatever reasons.
2) If the revolution is not engaged in by a large proportion of the people, each of whom is fully committed to the cause and most importantly understands the nature of the revolution, the revolution will inevitably fail. Why? You can't have the people ruling if the people don't understand what it means to rule...

- August

[BIG BROTHER]

Yea, adding to atlas and august, china to start with is pretty much a capitalist country, I mean the gov't still has a large say in the way things are run the the fact is China's predominant mode of production is a capitalist one.

And yea in North Korea they don't even bother themselves to call their ideology socialism anymore. Its instead called Juche and promotes cult of personality around Kim Jong, it focuses on the military instead of the proletariat and promotes isolation from the world.

and yea socialism isn't one big red person who went to china and beat up all the workers.

[Faux Real]

A socialist party in name does not entail socialism just as a democratic party does not entail any aim for democracy. Most communist parties throughout the 20th century were structured in a hierarchical manner and emulated 'comrade' stalin's attempts to establish some kind of 'socialism'.

[Periodic]

Well simply put, North Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship that exploits workers worse than Czarist Russia did.

China is making a great lurch toward capitalism whilst still retaining the control of the party over the nation as a whole. Seems as though the "People's Republic" may transform into a new version of Pinochet's Chile... They had so much promise, but alas...

Is the information propaganda? To a certain degree yes, the lives of those in China grew manifestly better after the civil war. But North Korea is a problem for socialism. The North Koreans are no longer a Socialist state, they instead seem to be a theocracy with Kim Jong Ill as their god figure, while still proclaiming themselves socialist.

Are the nations bad for the workers? Absolutely. But this is because the party leaders have taken socialism and twisted it in order to benefit themselves.

Well, than couldn't any leader do this? Just, completely take over as you said? One bad leader would lead to years and years of depression as i am understanding from your statement?

If you have time can you expand?

[Decolonize The Left]

Well, than couldn't any leader do this? Just, completely take over as you said? One bad leader would lead to years and years of depression as i am understanding from your statement?

If you have time can you expand?

You are correct in that any leader can abuse their power. That is why, generally speaking, anarchists and communists advocate a wide dispersal of power among the people. This is also why consolidating power in a 'vanguard' is highly dangerous, for as you mentioned, one bad leader could lead to years and years of depression.

- August

[BobKKKindle$]

Suppression of independent proletarian political activity is a feature of bureaucratic deformation. In North Korea (and other states which have described themselves as "socialist") capitalist property relations have been abolished through state expropriation of the means of production, and yet a bureaucratic stratum controls the state apparatus and enjoys material privileges which are not available to ordinary workers. The abolition of capitalism has allowed for several advances which would not be possible under a system of private property, such as the elimination of unemployment, and the universal provision of healthcare, such that socialists offer unconditional support to all workers state, regardless of the extent of deformation, but, at the same time, call for political revolution to destroy the power of the bureacracy and establish proletarian control.

Claiming that North Korea is a "feudal society" or a "theocracy" suggests a very superficial approach to this issue. The current problems suffered by North Korean workers are the result of several factors, including consistently poor weather (which has limited the size of the harvest) isolation from the rest of the world, and the pressing need to develop the strength of the military, to deter imperialist attack.