Worker's self management ( autogestion, right?)

[Black Sheep]

Ok,i have trouble with this stuff.Coz it seems monstrously impractical.
A group aiming at something,lets say Target A, can mantain its "course" to it through general consent of its members.A self organised group, with no guidance from more "experienced" group members since there is no vertical hierarchy, wouldnt it "lose sight" of its target and stray off course?

I mean yeah, a structureless and "flat" organisation of people IS an ode to equality,direct democracy and stuff, but it seems impractical and too "loose" to me.
Explain plz, or link me to stuff.

Oh,and i m new here, and still laughing at this

Don't worry if you think your questions are stupid or pointless, ask away.bastards :)

[BobKKKindle$]

Welcome to the board, Comrade.

Autogestion is not, contrary to what you may have been told, an impractical form of organization, as there are many examples which show how workers are able to effectively manage production through democratic processes and institutions, without the aid of managers, who would exercise control in an enterprise organized according to capitalist principles. One case study which can be useful if you need to demonstrate the effectiveness of autogestion is the tram network in Barcelona, which was subject to the control of the working class during the Spanish Civil War, through the anarchist trade union, the CNT. The workers were able to introduce many technical innovations which were not implemented when the network was controlled by a private organization, and during the period of democratic organization, fare levels fell significantly (source (http://iberianature.com/spaintravel/catalonia/barcelona/history-of-barcelona/barcelona-in-the-civil-war/)) A further example is a contemporary movement in Argentina, which arose during the financial crisis of 2001, when widespread factory closures encouraged workers to take control of the enterprises where they were employed to prevent the loss of employment which would have occurred if the enterprises remained under private control. An individual factory which is of special importance is Zanon, producing ceramics. (A report/interview concerning Zanon (http://libcom.org/library/zanon-factory-occupation-interview-with-workers))

[Qwerty489]

Aren't the pseudo-Titoists still peddling these same lines? Remember Milosevic's 'anti-bureaucratic revolution'? ...

Didn't that little exercise result in capitalism, war, genocide etc?

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Workers are the ones who make the products everyday, and its workers who understand the process better than anyone else. Even under the general atmosphere of capitalism, worker manged enterprises are usually far more efficient.

[F9]

No the self management of workers is applicable,the workers know how to make it and they are the "brains" behind the product so they can keep in a line and do it correctly.With no workers there is not product ,with not "bosses" there is a better product!

Fuserg9:star:

[Black Sheep]

oh, i wasn't talking so much about the production, but in the pre-revolution time,in class struggle in capitalism.
You know like many anarchist groups that claim to have no structure in their ranks.

[lvl100]

But what exactly "workers" means here ?

Did we include among them, the engineers or the architects for example ?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Who constitutes the "experienced group" under capitalism? Corporate power structures oftentimes cull out the BEST (wo)man because (s)he demands the HIGHEST wages. They instead hire outside of the company.

Executives also goof up all the time. One noticeable example: Borders. Some years ago the company introduced "Borders Bucks," which was essentially free money. The company lost millions in its first years.

Democracy leaves people naturally gravitating towards others they view as more experienced. If you had the choice between delegating responsibilities myself or some guy with 30 years in software production, you sure as hell are going to pick him over me, the simple janitor. People vote based on experience.

[lvl100]

Who constitutes the "experienced group" under capitalism? Corporate power structures oftentimes cull out the BEST (wo)man because (s)he demands the HIGHEST wages. They instead hire outside of the company.


Not really. The "experienced group" its a valuable mean of production for the capitalist. In a normal capitalist economy ( not some capitalist exploited jungle like economy" the elites of workers are pure gold.


Thats why for a good engineer the wage its often high, not to mention architects who can earn only by their work more than a little company.

They are the part of the proletariat that its more likely to reject the revolution ( not all ofcourse but in higher numbers than other types of workers)

But in the same time, i really dont see how industry would work without them.