What will a true communist country be like?

[raynai]

Please, please, I am just questioning, because I am new. I am just curious because I know (or I have been told) that the USSR did not epitomize communism. So I am wondering, wat is the ideal communist country like? Will everyone be happy? What about the CEO\'s and people like Bill Gates? What about the doctors who have a oath to help others? Will they like living in a communist country? Will there be computers and stuff? Computers are made from corporations tho! Does communism hope to eliminate such? Will there be a government at all? If not, how will people be kept in line?Thanks, if you can answer these. ( I know it is a lot, lol.)

[Holden Caulfield]

communism means no countries or borders,

you mean socialism, nobody (even the hardest Stalinist) would say the USSR was communist, and no communist state can ever or has ever exsisted,

communism in the final stage or our struggle to freedom,

[raynai]

but stalin wanted communism in one country! and also if there is no government, how does it work?

[mykittyhasaboner]

but stalin wanted communism in one country! and also if there is no government, how does it work?
fuck what stalin wanted. plus he embraced the idea of socialism in one country. Socialism is the precursor to communism.

[raynai]

oooh i thot communism and socialism are the same? because i hear when people use them interchangably!

[Yehuda Stern]

First of all, as most (but not all) people in this forum will tell you, Stalin was not really a communist - on the contrary, Stalin is one of those responsible for the fact that the socialist revolution was defeated in the first of half of the 20th century.

As for how a communist society will work (as Holden wrote, there are no countries in communism), we do not honestly know, and we do not pretend or need to. We believe that the humanity of the socialist future will be much wiser than us on this matter.

[raynai]

but how do you hope to achieve this? I mean you must know what you want to think it is great. what will it be like, in terms of quality of life? how can you be certain it will not mimic the USSR and other pseudo-communist states? because you cannot put too much trust in human nature!

[Q]

Welcome to the boards :)


Please, please, I am just questioning, because I am new. I am just curious because I know (or I have been told) that the USSR did not epitomize communism.
Indeed. In fact, it wasn't even socialist but a degenerated workers state. A workers state because the economy was socialised and planned, but degenerated because it was under control of a bureaucratic parasitic elite that ruled with totalitarianism. This was unlike the first few years (1917 to 1924) where, despite having a civil war and a destroyed economy, democracy was upheld and the soviets (workers councils) had real power.


So I am wondering, wat is the ideal communist country like? Will everyone be happy?
Communism is a stateless and classless society with an economy based on superabundance. Poverty, war, diseases and all other deficiencies of capitalist society will be gone by the means of a democratically planned economy that serves in the needs of the millions of people as opposed to the needs of the millionairs. Socialism is the transitionary phase between capitalism and communism, it still has a class society and a state. But this state is not governed by capitalists and their hirelings, but by the working people and has a fundamentally different structure; much less centralised and repressive. Read up about the idea of soviets here (http://marxists.org/glossary/orgs/s/o.htm#soviets).


What about the CEO\'s and people like Bill Gates?
Corporations get nationalised and be put under workers control and management. There will be no more CEO's and shareholders. Private property over the means of production and wageslavery get abolished.


What about the doctors who have a oath to help others? Will they like living in a communist country?
Why wouldn't they?


Will there be computers and stuff? Computers are made from corporations tho! Does communism hope to eliminate such?
Yes, of course there will be computers. Corporations get nationalised, not abolished.


Will there be a government at all? If not, how will people be kept in line?Thanks, if you can answer these. ( I know it is a lot, lol.)
Yes, a form of government (not to be confused with the state (http://marxists.org/glossary/terms/s/t.htm#state)) always needs to exist due to the complexity of our society. We strive for a, what I would call, "recursive federation" of soviets. Meaning this: the workfloor and the local neighbourhood will be directly democratically ruled by the people that work and live there. These people chose a representative for the city soviet. This representative only get a normal workers wage and can be recalled at any given time by the people that chose him. This city soviet is then linked on regional, national and international level on the basis of need and where it is logical. For example: a new highway will be decided regionally, environmental pollution is often an international problem though, etc.

I hope this cleared some up.

[mykittyhasaboner]

oooh i thot communism and socialism are the same? because i hear when people use them interchangably!
socialism can be used to describe the transitory period between abolishing capitalism, and achieving communism. communism is a society where there is no state, no social classes, and no currency.

socialism is also used to describe the broader socialist movement. this would include communists, anarchists, basically all types of socialists.

[mykittyhasaboner]

but how do you hope to achieve this? I mean you must know what you want to think it is great. what will it be like, in terms of quality of life? how can you be certain it will not mimic the USSR and other pseudo-communist states? because you cannot put too much trust in human nature!

we hope to achieve communism, by abolishing capitalism, private property, and anarchists want to abolish the state. after capitalism is abolished, the groundworks for socialism would be put in place, such as: nationalization of large businesses, workers democracy, free health care, free education, the average everyday life in a socialist/communist society would be much more enjoyable, because working hours would greatly be reduced, and you have a say in how labour is managed.
All goods you need are free because there is an abundance of products. and you own, along with the rest of society, the means of production. there would be little or no restriction of movement, so could live and travel where you please.

[F9]

but stalin wanted communism in one country! and also if there is no government, how does it work?


communism works by the people who take care of themselves,you dont need a government to live,think about it and you will understand that you dont really need a government!


Please, please, I am just questioning, because I am new. I am just curious because I know (or I have been told) that the USSR did not epitomize communism. So I am wondering, wat is the ideal communist country like? Will everyone be happy? What about the CEO\'s and people like Bill Gates?

questioning is not a badthing thats why we have learning forum.No,USSR was NOT a communist "country" and there wasnt so far none!On how the idea communism will be it varies on oppinions,in my oppinion the "ideal" is going to be when people are comletely free from everything,no goverments-no partys-no bosses-no gods etc.Furthermore ideal will be when people with the needed technlogy advance make jobs easier and more hapier to the worker and in the final stage producing in the needs of the community or even more so no one have less than he needs!To get this ideal "communism" people will have to be in a free environment and they need to communicate well eachother.Of course such problems like bad communication with your neighbors will almost dissapear in communism because you will have nothing to share with them,but you will have a lot of things that in common you will do better for the good of all!
Of course and everyone would be happy(maybe some exceptions)because why wouldnt be happy if he lives a proper life with what he needs in a friendly environment,with noone ruling him,everyone is happy when is free!Rich people like those who knows they may lost what they have but in this equal system and free they may join it and understand its meaning,we cant get on their minds and know how they react!


What about the doctors who have a oath to help others?
They will keep helping others,what because communism will come doctors will vanish and we would stay and die for nothing?Of course no,they will keep doing their jobs(if they are pleased with it).


Will they like living in a communist country?

Why not?

Will there be computers and stuff? Computers are made from corporations tho! Does communism hope to eliminate such? Will there be a government at all? If not, how will people be kept in line?Thanks, if you can answer these. ( I know it is a lot, lol.)

Sure and there going to be computers and such,we are with technological advance and we will try get it and in an other level.Of course and we dont want to eleminate technology we want to improve it as i said so it will make and our lives better.

Fuserg9:star:

[raynai]

ok i am just curious. thanks you guys all for your answers! but in the USSR the people had no power. it was only in the politburo, because nobody voted who would be next except those within the politburo. the ordinary people had no say! but also, i might add, capitalism does not serve only the millionares. i make 10$ an hour, and I live pretty good under capitalism. i have more than those in like cuba or something (a planned economy)

[Q]

but how do you hope to achieve this?
We hope to achieve this by revolution: the conscious take over of power by the working class to abolish capitalism. This in turn is achieved by class struggle: strikes, demonstrations, protests, etc. which elevates peoples class consciousness to fight for an alternative.


I mean you must know what you want to think it is great. what will it be like, in terms of quality of life?
In terms of quality of life communism and even socialism are much higher then capitalism. Directly after the revolution I could see some policies implemented (thinking from a European perspective): a 30 hour working week, a 400 euro rise in income, work for everyone, direct democracy, free education / healthcare / public transport, a massive investment program in affordable housing. How does that sound? It can be achieved if we end capitalism and have direct access to the megaprofits of the big corporations.


how can you be certain it will not mimic the USSR and other pseudo-communist states? because you cannot put too much trust in human nature!
The "human nature" argument is flawed. Read a bit into Maslow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs) and you'll see very clearly why. It is true that people are very selfish in capitalist society, this is due to (according to Maslow) capitalism pushing people "down" in the hierarchy of needs, so people are always busy securing the most primal needs. By contrast, socialism and communism "rise" people up in that hierarchy by having the basics covered and in abundance.

[raynai]

i will not be happy with no government! the government is essential to the basis of civilization! humans naturally need authority. without a government, murderers and rapists will be running the streets and nobody would be safe! i would hate that. it would be complete turmoil!

[Q]

ok i am just curious. thanks you guys all for your answers! but in the USSR the people had no power. it was only in the politburo, because nobody voted who would be next except those within the politburo. the ordinary people had no say! but also, i might add, capitalism does not serve only the millionares. i make 10$ an hour, and I live pretty good under capitalism. i have more than those in like cuba or something (a planned economy)
Yes, the USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship. This was due to the isolation of the socialist revolution in a backward feudal country that also had to cope with 21 imperialist armies that invaded the country and supported the tsarist white troops in the civil war which destroiyed much of the tiny industrial base. This is why the USSR degenerated into a bureaucratic dictatorship that eventually degenerated back into capitalism. Because this bureaucratic stratum had no class basis, it had to rule in a so called Bonarpartistic way, i.e. by totalitarian rule.

Capitalism surely only serves the millionaires. Calling $10 an hour a decent wage while you boss get 100 times as much is ridiculous. But if you don't want to fight for a better, then that's your call.

Cuba, despite being an almost completely isolated besieged fort and also a lack of democracy, does have free education, free healthcare and good and affordable housing.

[Q]

i will not be happy with no government! the government is essential to the basis of civilization! humans naturally need authority. without a government, murderers and rapists will be running the streets and nobody would be safe! i would hate that. it would be complete turmoil!

Read one of my previous posts. You're now really making the impression of just trolling around.

[raynai]

but under communism there is no incentive to get ahead! people are motivated more by money as opposed to pasion. why should there be total equality, to those who have not earned it? that does not seem fair!

[raynai]

ok sorry my posts are late, some of them i am replying to previous posts. the post about the government was in response to someone else who advocated no government.ok i think 10$ an hour is good, my boss has more experience so naturally he should get paid more. in cuba, they may free ehalthcare, education, etc but it is not good quality. i\'d post a link here, but apparently i am not allowed (wth?)

[mykittyhasaboner]

i will not be happy with no government! the government is essential to the basis of civilization! humans naturally need authority. without a government, murderers and rapists will be running the streets and nobody would be safe! i would hate that. it would be complete turmoil!
as Q-Collective stated, there is no real argument for a fixed "human nature". what your describing is human relations to materialist settings. Capitalism is an economy fueled by greed, and competition. thus humans would adjust to this and become more individualistic, and compete. socialism is a cooperative society. rather than greed and competition, what fuels our economy, is mutual gain and respect. every person who works for the society is helping you and vice versa.

also, murder is mostly commited in crimes where criminals are trying to steal money or goods, because they need to survive in capitalism and have no other way of attaining goods/money.

[F9]

i will not be happy with no government! the government is essential to the basis of civilization! humans naturally need authority. without a government, murderers and rapists will be running the streets and nobody would be safe! i would hate that. it would be complete turmoil!

what we where telling you so time?Why would someone go and murder another in communism?and if there going to be some people with some problems wont be freely staying in the community they will get a treatment so they will overcome their problem because only people with some i dont know problems would go and kill someone in communism!
Human naturally need authority?HELL NO,in what world are you living?you like yo get ruled,some people say to you what to do,where to go and not go,what is appropriate to do and what is not?I use authority and i say to you to shut up as an example,you will shut up because you like authority and you need it?Thats CRAZY!Your judgment on communism its wrong i will suggest to you get and some reading and not just depend on what other people said!

Fuserg9:star:

[raynai]

capitalism is fueled by competition, sure, but a little competition is good! not everyone who supports capitalism is greedy at all! we just want to try hard and reap the benefits. communism will disallow me to achieve what i want to achieve! i do not think you can change people to be good, i do not think that the personality of a person is only based on the environment. by that, i mean, living in capitalist society, we are not any more greedy due to the economic system, because not everyone is greedy. there are a lot of people that i dislike (and i am sure you do as well), i should not have to help others i do not like! it should be an individual basis, not a communal basis. i do not want to provide for scum like criminals and whatnot. and not all criminals are criminals because of capitalism! some are just sociopaths and even in a \"caring environment\" will still kill, because he is not like you and me. and not everyone is similar to one another. not everyone is equal. why should they be treated equal?

[raynai]

if we do not have authority, people will just be doing whatever they want!

[F9]

but under communism there is no incentive to get ahead! people are motivated more by money as opposed to pasion. why should there be total equality, to those who have not earned it? that does not seem fair!

again completely wrong!
why there is not a motive to go ahead??What we would just like sitting and die in some days?We wont go do someting so we get sme food and what we need?
In communism job will be a happy thing not a boring daily routine,if you like what you are doing you get a progress in it!Your motivation it is yourself,not money,who needs money if you do something you like and get what you need to live and you contribute to the community?the self-pleasant is far from money!
Why total equality?everyone will contribute and everyone will get his "share" he will get what he deserves not less,if you work you will get what you have offered,not like capitalism where workes work and the boss gets the benefits=money!And equality seems fair to the workers but not to the rich people who get the benefits from what the workers doing,i am starting wondering if you are a part of the high-class thats why you see it unfair!

Fuserg9:star:

[mykittyhasaboner]

communism will disallow me to achieve what i want to achieve!
and what would that be?

[F9]

if we do not have authority, people will just be doing whatever they want!

Thats silly and stupid,we try explaining you but you dont seem to get it!you precise in your position!then why asking?
and i see you take and some racist points so talking is not getting anywhere for now!:closedeyes:

Fuserg9:star:

[raynai]

I want money tho, because then i can do what i want to do. and under communism, it seems we are taking care of each other. no, we should take care of ourselves, not people who deserve nothing. under capitalism, you are not oppressed. with hardwork and motivation, you CAN achieve whatever you want! i am not rich, i said i made 10$/hour. i dont know what that is in your currency, but it is not much.

[raynai]

no i am just curious what you think is good about it? it doesnt please me

[mykittyhasaboner]

I want money tho, because then i can do what i want to do. and under communism, it seems we are taking care of each other. no, we should take care of ourselves, not people who deserve nothing. under capitalism, you are not oppressed. with hardwork and motivation, you CAN achieve whatever you want! i am not rich, i said i made 10$/hour. i dont know what that is in your currency, but it is not much.you want money? so you want your product relations to be restricted by capitalism? you cant do ANYTHING with money, only what you can afford. under capitalism you are oppressed, because you are a worker below the ruling class, and are forced into wage slavery as means of attaining your needs.

so you say yourself that your not rich. so you cant raise your living standards because you cannot afford it, so why do you want capitalism?
or are you just trolling around, if so, then just get the fuck off the board.

edit: read my sig, thats how money works.

[F9]

I want money tho, because then i can do what i want to do. and under communism, it seems we are taking care of each other. no, we should take care of ourselves, not people who deserve nothing. under capitalism, you are not oppressed. with hardwork and motivation, you CAN achieve whatever you want! i am not rich, i said i made 10$/hour. i dont know what that is in your currency, but it is not much.

money let you do what you want to do?money make people dont do wat they want to do.If you have a family and you only get little pay then you are tot free to do what you want.Firstly you will want to take care of the basing needs of your family,that may get the money,but then you wont be able to pay for maybe some entertainment,some clothes for you etc nedd.You wont have such problems in communism!You want to go and have some fun?you arent going to starting thinking if money are going to make what you need,in communism you will just go and have fun!
There wont be people who desrve nothing if you see some people as such you are a racist!and you didnt get my past point,if you help another people he will help you,so if a whole community help eachother results would be much greater than capitalism now,if you work in something you like and for your own good and whole people good then you get resulsts better,in capitalism you work for yourself in a job you dont like and you get a low payment and you get low results!
and what we are saying so much time in Capitalism you ARE opressed in Communism you are NOT in any way i cant get it who will you get opreesed in communism!
what you want to achieve with hard work and motivation?become a powerfull and rich man and opress workers as some people opress you?thats your goal and your target?become a man who can rule other?i m sorry of people who set goals getting control of other people ,really!

Fuserg9:star:

[raynai]

no under capitalism EVERYONE has good living standards. compare the quality of life in america even for the poor with that of cuba (i know cuba doesnt represent true communism, dont lecture me. i used it as example because its not capitalism) people can make change for themselves under capitalism and work for themselves ONLY! i dont like having universial healthcare, because healthcare should be an individual responsibility. i shouldnt have to pay for scum to have healthcare, for drug addicts. this is just an example of how socialist programs are not good. i dont make much yet, but i am young. i hope one day to climb in my field and make more money, because i am capable of doing that. under capitalism, you are not oppressed, unless you live in a free state with no gov intervention where coroproations control the people, but in developed countries, it is mostly a mixed economy, and it has worked this well as being good.

[F9]

no under capitalism EVERYONE has good living standards. compare the quality of life in america even for the poor with that of cuba (i know cuba doesnt represent true communism, dont lecture me. i used it as example because its not capitalism) people can make change for themselves under capitalism and work for themselves ONLY! i dont like having universial healthcare, because healthcare should be an individual responsibility. i shouldnt have to pay for scum to have healthcare, for drug addicts. this is just an example of how socialist programs are not good. i dont make much yet, but i am young. i hope one day to climb in my field and make more money, because i am capable of doing that. under capitalism, you are not oppressed, unless you live in a free state with no gov intervention where coroproations control the people, but in developed countries, it is mostly a mixed economy, and it has worked this well as being good.


:mad::mad:
CC or an admin here?

[Lost In Translation]

if we do not have authority, people will just be doing whatever they want!

Well, if they do whatever they want, and they choose not to do what is required, then they don't get their resources. Simple as that.

[mykittyhasaboner]

no under capitalism EVERYONE has good living standards. compare the quality of life in america even for the poor with that of cuba (i know cuba doesnt represent true communism, dont lecture me. i used it as example because its not capitalism)
Poverty in the US at any given time is 12 -15 percent. poverty in cuba is 4.1%.


people can make change for themselves under capitalism and work for themselves ONLY! i dont like having universial healthcare, because healthcare should be an individual responsibility. i shouldnt have to pay for scum to have healthcare, for drug addicts.your scum


this is just an example of how socialist programs are not good. i dont make much yet, but i am young. i hope one day to climb in my field and make more money, because i am capable of doing that. wrong it is an example of how socialism is better than capitalism. and given your current display of intellect about capitalism, i doubt youll make it anywhere.


under capitalism, you are not oppressed, unless you live in a free state with no gov intervention where coroproations control the people, but in developed countries, it is mostly a mixed economy, and it has worked this well as being good.there is no such thing as "free states". the state always intervenes, minimally or all the time.

[Annie K.]

if we do not have authority, people will just be doing whatever they want! That's the point.

if they do whatever they want, and they choose not to do what is required, then they don't get their resources.That's capitalism.


no under capitalism EVERYONE has good living standards. compare the quality of life in americaAmerica (i think you mean united states) is not a self-sufficient economy. The relatively good living standards of the poor in the US is the product of the awfully bad living standards of the poor in china or mexico. Now compare the living standards of the poor in cuba with them.

[raynai]

if you look at cuba, you will see how poor it really is, compared to the US. everyone has a chance to be successful in the US.

[RedAnarchist]

if you look at cuba, you will see how poor it really is, compared to the US. everyone has a chance to be successful in the US.

If they can afford to pay for healthcare and college, they might. And those are just two things out of reach to many Americans.

[RedAnarchist]

if we do not have authority, people will just be doing whatever they want!

Really? If you had no laws or government running your life, would you yourself descend into some sort of criminal? Of course not, so why would anyone else? Most of us can quite easily go through a full day without any contact with the government or police, yet we don't all just decide to go burgle and house or attack someone do we?

[RedAnarchist]

:mad::mad:
CC or an admin here?

I've started a thread in the CC. He'll probably be restricted to the OI or banned soon.

[Labor Shall Rule]

The world will be as magical as an Ase of Base video. Watch "Beautiful Life." That's communism.

[raynai]

yeah i wouldnt be a criminal but what about those people who WOULD comit crimes even with police here, wouldnt they be MORE motivated to do because nobody is going to stop them?and also on a further note why would i be banned? i am not being offensive!

[RedAnarchist]

yeah i wouldnt be a criminal but what about those people who WOULD comit crimes even with police here, wouldnt they be MORE motivated to do because nobody is going to stop them?and also on a further note why would i be banned? i am not being offensive!

No, they wouldn't, because there would be no need for them to do so. Most crime occurs because of the problems in society that capitalism causes, such as huge inequalities between working class and ruling class, rascism, sexism etc.

You'll probably be restricted, although some may consider you a troll and may want you banned.

[mykittyhasaboner]

yeah i wouldnt be a criminal but what about those people who WOULD comit crimes even with police here, wouldnt they be MORE motivated to do because nobody is going to stop them?and also on a further note why would i be banned? i am not being offensive!
they wouldnt need to commit more crimes because theire needs would be fulfilled! your going to be restricted because you praise capitalism and criticize socialism and communism. you will probably be banned because your trolling. or at least I'd call it trolling.

[raynai]

no some people generally want to cause harm to others. what about people like sociopaths, etc? their mentality is completely unjustified. some of them are just HORRIBLE PEOPLE, ever think of that? when you look at crime causes, you will see most of them are NOT based on capitalism. and under communism how can you be sure to fix that? racism, sexism, etc will always exist. i am not trolling, i am asking questions, and i am trying to very nice even with opposition. please, i dont mean offensive. if this is bad, i will stop.

[RedAnarchist]

no some people generally want to cause harm to others. what about people like sociopaths, etc? their mentality is completely unjustified. some of them are just HORRIBLE PEOPLE, ever think of that? when you look at crime causes, you will see most of them are NOT based on capitalism. and under communism how can you be sure to fix that? racism, sexism, etc will always exist. i am not trolling, i am asking questions, and i am trying to very nice even with opposition. please, i dont mean offensive. if this is bad, i will stop.

If they cause harm to the community, then the community will decide what should be done with them. There is no need for a militia such as the police or and authority such as the government because the community can do things for themselves.

[Q]

i am not being offensive!
You're trolling and you'll be banned or put in Opposing Ideologies for it.

[raynai]

how can you trust that people will know what is best for them? and why will people listen to what the community says when they are not in authority? also it would be completely relative to what the people think, and what about those who disagree. in a society without government, things like drugs and shit will be allowed. i just dont agree.

[RedAnarchist]

how can you trust that people will know what is best for them? and why will people listen to what the community says when they are not in authority? also it would be completely relative to what the people think, and what about those who disagree. in a society without government, things like drugs and shit will be allowed. i just dont agree.

People do know what is best for them. Unless you don't do anything unless the government says its safe? I presume you don't smoke, drink alcohol etc because the government says that these things are bad for you adn you admit that you cannot be trusted to know what is good for you?

They will listen because they will be opart of the decision making process rather than being forced to obey laws under penalty of being dragged off to a jail.

Just because drugs will be allowed and available doesn't mean that everyone will turn into drug addicts. In fact, without laws, drug-related crimes will virtually disappear.

[raynai]

i dont drink, do drugs etc because they are harmful to people. lots of accidents are drug-related, but most people cant responsibilty if an accident involving alcohol, etc happens, they counter it by saying it wont happen to me. its just dumb and immature. people who take drugs are severely screwed up. i dont think you cn get sociopaths and cold-blooded murderers with no empathy and compassion to listen to you. drug-related crimes will INCREASE because its more avaliable, so lots of immature sum (mostly teenagers and college students) will drive while under the influence. drinking and driving is prelavent because alcohol is legal and the law is not strict enof.

[RedAnarchist]

i dont drink, do drugs etc because they are harmful to people. lots of accidents are drug-related, but most people cant responsibilty if an accident involving alcohol, etc happens, they counter it by saying it wont happen to me. its just dumb and immature. people who take drugs are severely screwed up. i dont think you cn get sociopaths and cold-blooded murderers with no empathy and compassion to listen to you. drug-related crimes will INCREASE because its more avaliable, so lots of immature sum (mostly teenagers and college students) will drive while under the influence. drinking and driving is prelavent because alcohol is legal and the law is not strict enof.

Thats your choice to do so, and its other peoples choice to drink/take drugs if they so wish. Why should we have a law that states that its illegal to smoke marijuana when its legal to drink alcohol, which is far more addictive and causes much more death and misery?

Lots of accidents are stair-related, but we don't ban stairs.

How do you know people who take drugs are severely screwed up? Do you have any unbiased sources for that claim?

Murderers and sociopaths probably won't listen to us, but they will eb much rarer than they are in a capitalist society.

Why will drug related crimes increase just because they are more available? In a post-revolutionary society, drug dealers won't exist.

Actually, drink driving has been reduced greatly in the last 20 years because of education, not because of any law.

[raynai]

actually alcohol should be illegal as well. and people dont generally make stupid selfish immature decisions that cause harm to others from stairs. if they do, then they should pay the price. and you cant change murderers and sociopaths! they will always be the same way. the best way to deal with them is to kill them. and not the people, because some (like you) might object. i feel much safer knowing that im protected. drug-dealing might not be the only drug-related crime, also you have to think of imparired driving which would be much more prominent if anyone can have access to it. people who arent normally criminals and objected to taking drugs because it was criminal will likely take it now because its not and operate machinary whilist taking it. there are no laws against this, so wth eh?

[RedAnarchist]

actually alcohol should be illegal as well. and people dont generally make stupid selfish immature decisions that cause harm to others from stairs. if they do, then they should pay the price. and you cant change murderers and sociopaths! they will always be the same way. the best way to deal with them is to kill them. and not the people, because some (like you) might object. i feel much safer knowing that im protected. drug-dealing might not be the only drug-related crime, also you have to think of imparired driving which would be much more prominent if anyone can have access to it. people who arent normally criminals and objected to taking drugs because it was criminal will likely take it now because its not and operate machinary whilist taking it. there are no laws against this, so wth eh?

They tried banning alcohol in America in the 1930s, and look how that turned out.

The best way to deal with someone is to kill them? That hardly seems fair - why should we kill a murderer or a sociopath if we don't kill a rapist or a paedophile? The death penalty is no deterrent, or else America, Iran, China etc would have very low crime rates.

If they objected to it because it was criminal, why would they suddenly go out and buy some drugs? If they objected to it as a criminal activity, wouldn't they want it to stay criminalised?

[Q]

raynai, if you like capitalism that much, wouldn't actually like the lack of government? That's the argument I keep hearing from all those free market fundamentalists.

[raynai]

yeah when they banned it before the punishments were severe enof. i reckon rapists and paedophiles should be killed too. and maybe enforce torture too before we kill them, not lethal injection, seems like an easy way out. and also, if we do not deter them, at least we dont have to worry about them doing more, its one less scum in our society. and maybe they objected to drugs when it was criminal because they didnt want to get in trouble, and now they wont and they can get away with it.

[raynai]

i dont love capitalism, i just think its better than the alternative. i\'m not libertarian, i want morality to be the basis of society (seems as if people want to take it away)normally i\'m not capitalism is awesome, because i dont argue with socialists most of the time.

[RedAnarchist]

yeah when they banned it before the punishments were severe enof. i reckon rapists and paedophiles should be killed too. and maybe enforce torture too before we kill them, not lethal injection, seems like an easy way out. and also, if we do not deter them, at least we dont have to worry about them doing more, its one less scum in our society. and maybe they objected to drugs when it was criminal because they didnt want to get in trouble, and now they wont and they can get away with it.

Why couldn't they ban it before the punishments were severe enough?

Why should they? It wouldn't help the victim, it would just satisfy the bloodlust of some people such as yourselves. And torture? Why do that if you're planning to kill them? No offence, but it sounds like you're the sociopath.

If they objected to drugs when it was criminal and now take them after legalisation, that would mean all laws are worthless and, at most, just delaying the inevitable.

[RedAnarchist]

i dont love capitalism, i just think its better than the alternative. i\'m not libertarian, i want morality to be the basis of society (seems as if people want to take it away)normally i\'m not capitalism is awesome, because i dont argue with socialists most of the time.

So, you're some sort of liberal.

[raynai]

sorry that actually made no sense, my first sentence. i meant \"when it was banned, the punishments weren\'t severe enof\"and yes it will help the victim by giving them a piece of mind so they can feel safer. and no i do not generally advocate violence and torture and whatnot, but if they are criminals, they deserve to die. and die painfully. afterall, anything less would be sympathizing with them scum. and if people wouldnt take drugs when it is illegal, it is good for society eventually because it prevents drug-related offenses. if the people lack morals, then we need laws to keep them in line. because people who dont respect others and dont comit crimes because they are fearful of punishments, will at least help society in some way by them NOT causing harm while under the influence. without government, more people would drive while under the influence.

[raynai]

liberals generally support reform of capitalism (from what i know) and more social programs

[RedAnarchist]

sorry that actually made no sense, my first sentence. i meant \"when it was banned, the punishments weren\'t severe enof\"and yes it will help the victim by giving them a piece of mind so they can feel safer. and no i do not generally advocate violence and torture and whatnot, but if they are criminals, they deserve to die. and die painfully. afterall, anything less would be sympathizing with them scum. and if people wouldnt take drugs when it is illegal, it is good for society eventually because it prevents drug-related offenses. if the people lack morals, then we need laws to keep them in line. because people who dont respect others and dont comit crimes because they are fearful of punishments, will at least help society in some way by them NOT causing harm while under the influence. without government, more people would drive while under the influence.

No matter how severe the punishment, punishment is not much of a deterrant.

It may make them feel safer, but what if the victim doesn't want the person to be killed?

So, everyone who doesn't believe a criminal deserves to die is sympathizing with them? I don't think you'll find that a very popular viewpoint.

By morals, what do you mean? What religions say you should adn should not do?

[raynai]

i think punishment is a good deterrant, because without it, people will think it is okay to commit crimes. there has to be a line drawn and we have to show them some behaviors are unacceptable. why WOULDNT the victium not want the criminal to be killed? well, heck what the victim has to say, we\'re thinking what\'s best for society. what if the victim doesnt want him to be punished at all! what good that will do, because he would kill MORE people, and more. how is that good? ok why would you think a criminal DOESNT deserve to die? and no i dont mean petty crimes, i mean felons. and morals, as in what is right and what is wrong. it\'s not just religion, it\'s basically the way people are supposed to live, like murder is wrong. thats universal (generally).

[RedAnarchist]

i think punishment is a good deterrant, because without it, people will think it is okay to commit crimes.

People aren't dogs, they don't need to be punished when they do something some authority deems to be "wrong". And in a communist society, no laws will exist, so noone will actually be a criminal.


there has to be a line drawn and we have to show them some behaviors are unacceptable.

Unacceptable to whom and why? Maybe to them the action is acceptable.


why WOULDNT the victium not want the criminal to be killed?

Because most people aren't homocidal?


well, heck what the victim has to say, we\'re thinking what\'s best for society. what if the victim doesnt want him to be punished at all! what good that will do, because he would kill MORE people, and more

Actually, most murders are either a crime of passion, committed by someone who isn't an hardened criminal, an act of self-defence or unintentional or not premeditated.


how is that good? ok why would you think a criminal DOESNT deserve to die? and no i dont mean petty crimes, i mean felons.

You can't just assume that a murder is a cold-blooded and planned attack on someone, life is not like that. You have to differentiate between the guy who murdered people without remorse and the woman who killed her abusive husband after years of torment or the man who killed in self defence because his "victim" was about to kill him.


and morals, as in what is right and what is wrong. it\'s not just religion, it\'s basically the way people are supposed to live, like murder is wrong. thats universal (generally).

In a communist society, murder would not be acceptable either. Its not going to be some dystopia where people freely go around killing and raping.

[mykittyhasaboner]

i think punishment is a good deterrant, because without it, people will think it is okay to commit crimes.
of course because common decency has nothing to do with individuals knowing that crimes are not ok.


there has to be a line drawn and we have to show them some behaviors are unacceptable. so drinking alcohol or taking any other drug would be one of those unacceptable acts? even though drugs serve as medicines, and are personal choices, you want to keep people from doing drugs because its "wrong"?


ok why would you think a criminal DOESNT deserve to die? and no i dont mean petty crimes, i mean felons.because capital punishment is unacceptable punishment regardless of the "crime" committed. reading someone else's mail with out their permission is a felony. should that person be executed?



and morals, as in what is right and what is wrong. it\'s not just religion, it\'s basically the way people are supposed to live, like murder is wrong. thats universal (generally).you cant run a society based entirely on morality. because morality isnt the same for everybody. nor does it exist to everybody.

[raynai]

so you guys trust that people are decent? you honestly feel safe knowing that nobody is looking out for you, protecting you etc? at least i can report crimes to police and they can do something about instead of my relying on the \"good nature\" of humans. there is a difference btween taking drugs as remedy to physical problems than taking drugs for plessure. on the former it would be regulated and overdosing would be against the law. reading someone else\'s mail is not a felony. what crazy legal system do you live under?and i can run a society based on morality. most of the en comandments are common sense and decency.

[RedAnarchist]

so you guys trust that people are decent? you honestly feel safe knowing that nobody is looking out for you, protecting you etc?

I would probably feel safer in a society without the police, who often use extreme violence and can be very corrupt. I would also feel a lot safer in a community where my view and the views of all those that live in the community are equally valued.


at least i can report crimes to police and they can do something about instead of my relying on the \"good nature\" of humans.

So instead of relying on the good nature of humans, you'll rely on the good nature of a small percentage of humans who are employed as police offiicers?


there is a difference between taking drugs as remedy to physical problems than taking drugs for pleasure.

Of course, and why should it make any difference to you if someone takes a drug for medicinal purposes and another takes a drug for pleasure?


on the former it would be regulated and overdosing would be against the law.

Why would overdosing be a crime? Overdosing can be accidental and if someone dies from overdosing, you can't prosecute them.


reading someone else\'s mail is not a felony. what crazy legal system do you live under?

In some countries at least, reading other peoples mail is against the law.


and i can run a society based on morality. most of the ten commandments are common sense and decency.

Are they? Firstly, only Christians and Jewish have the Ten commandments. Secondly, lets have a look at them -

I am the Lord your God - This one only counts if you believe in the Abrahamic God.

You shall have no other gods before me - This only counts if you are religious and believe in the Abrahamic God.

You shall not make for yourself an idol - The Christians for some reason always break this one, as they have many statues and pictures of Jesus etc.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God - Why does god care? Is he really that small that he can't stand people using his name in vain?

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy - Why is one day considered holy, and why should people only rest on this day?

Honour your father and mother - Respect your parents but don't see them as some sort of infallible authority.

You shall not murder/kill - Does this means just humans, or all animals? Does it allow for self-defence?

You shall not commit adultery - Why does God care? You would think he would encourage this, as it could mean more children, and therefore more humans to worship him.

You shall not steal - Wow, rich people and politicians are in trouble. What if you're poor and need to resort to theft to feed your family? Will doing so send you right to Hell?

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor - Not sure what this is supposed to be about.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house - Oh no, I can't covet his house? Why would anyone care if you were envious of someones house?

You shall not covet your neighbor's wife - Misogynistic beyond belief. Women are not objects, and this commandment makes it sound as if women can't be Christians.

[raynai]

i dont have complete trust and faith in police officers, but the system works so people DO have power. people can sure for false imprisonment, etc. rather than in the USSR when the NKVD and its succersor the KGb arrested people and they could not fight back. they had no power. they were sent the gulags unfairly (except for the actual criminals). in a developed country such as America, the police do not execessive power, just like president does not either. it is full of cheques and balances that allow a free and democratic society. people who take drugs for plessure are sometimes very stupid, because they generally cause great harm to others. they are impaired, they cannot think properly. i do not want a society to run based on mindless drug addicts. not at all! and as for the 10 commandments, i never that society should be based on all of them. and some of your comments are horribly offensive. i do not insult you for not being christian. you shouldnt insult the religion. and they are general rules (for most) anyways.

[al8]

if they do, then they should pay the price. and you cant change murderers and sociopaths! they will always be the same way. the best way to deal with them is to kill them.

I agree with you and I'm a communist. I would gladly kill dangerous people who kill inapropriatly. But I also think they could just as well be taken to facilities and researched for science sake (if sush facilities are availabe). With enough knowledge they might changed. But note also that these are extreme minority cases, it will not much affect how things are generally. Most crime results from the systemic flaws of capitalism. With that gone all the superstructure - most of the prison system - will be pretty mush useless and empty.

[RedAnarchist]

i dont have complete trust and faith in police officers, but the system works so people DO have power.

The system works for whom? Go to an inner city area and say that, see what reaction you get.


people can sure for false imprisonment, etc. rather than in the USSR when the NKVD and its succersor the KGb arrested people and they could not fight back.

The NKVD and KGB weren't the police, they were more like intelligence agencies.


they had no power. they were sent the gulags unfairly (except for the actual criminals).

Unlike in America or Britain, where people get sent to prison for teh most ridiculous of reasons?



in a developed country such as America, the police do not execessive power, just like president does not either.

They may not have it legally, but they still abuse their power.


it is full of cheques and balances that allow a free and democratic society.

Where were these checks and balances when innocent people were killed or beaten by the police? Where were they when the police forced confessions or framed people?


people who take drugs for plessure are sometimes very stupid, because they generally cause great harm to others.

Do they? Even if that person did it in the privacy of their own home?


they are impaired, they cannot think properly. i do not want a society to run based on mindless drug addicts.

Alcohol is legal, yet society is not run by drunks, so why would legalising drugs allow drug addicts to run society?


not at all! and as for the 10 commandments, i never that society should be based on all of them. and some of your comments are horribly offensive.

That wasn't my intention.


i do not insult you for not being christian. you shouldnt insult the religion. and they are general rules (for most) anyways.

I hardly insulted it, I merely questioned the ten commandments.

[raynai]

yea i agree somewhat tho i dont think capitalism is the route cause of crime and most sociopaths cannot change i dont think

[RedAnarchist]

yea i agree somewhat tho i dont think capitalism is the route cause of crime and most sociopaths cannot change i dont think

Capitalism isn't the root cause of crime, it is parts of a capitalist society such as inequality, poverty and hunger that cause crime.

[raynai]

yes it works fine. we the people have power and we can sue them for things that are unfair! it\'s not like we get arrested for ridicuous things, if that was the case the police officers would be fired. in order to keep their job they follow regulations. people dont generally get sent to prison for ridicuous reasons, because they have a fair trial. innocent people killed and beaten by the police? that is completely rare, and it is less prelavent than a society where there is no punishment at all! generally the police PROTECT people. idc if people take drugs in their own home, its still illegal. so you trust they will be completely good citizens even imparired? you trust they will have the brain-power (WHILE IMPAIRED) to NOT drive their car and kill INNOCENT people? alcohol is legal, and abuse is rampant.

[raynai]

under capitalism everyone is treated equally. poverty and hunger can easily be fixed under capitalism because there are many social programs that can help them in developed countries.

[RedAnarchist]

yes it works fine. we the people have power and we can sue them for things that are unfair!

The people do not have power, they have concessions and illusions of power.


it\'s not like we get arrested for ridicuous things, if that was the case the police officers would be fired.

People get arrested for silly things all the time. Half the time the people will arrest someone but release them without charge a while later.


in order to keep their job they follow regulations.

So why in the UK is there such an organisation as the Independant Police Complaints Commision? Why are there cop watching organisations? Why do people hate the police?


people dont generally get sent to prison for ridicuous reasons, because they have a fair trial.

And yet miscarriages of justice happen?


innocent people killed and beaten by the police? that is completely rare, and it is less prelavent than a society where there is no punishment at all!

No, its not. And if there was no punishment, that would no police, so in a society with no punishment, there would be no police anyway.


generally the police PROTECT people

Why? Who asked them to?


idc if people take drugs in their own home, its still illegal.

If you felt a law was unjust, would you still obey it, even though you supposedly have power?


so you trust they will be completely good citizens even imparired? you trust they will have the brain-power (WHILE IMPAIRED) to NOT drive their car and kill INNOCENT people? alcohol is legal, and abuse is rampant.

People drive dangerously even when sober, it doesn't matter if they are drunk or not.

[RedAnarchist]

under capitalism everyone is treated equally.

Tell that to a woman, or someone from an ethnic/religious minority, or an asylum seeker, or an homeless person, or a disabled person, or a poor person.



poverty and hunger can easily be fixed under capitalism because there are many social programs that can help them in developed countries.

If they can be easily fixed under capitalism, why are there still poor/homeless people in even the richest of countries?

[raynai]

ok so some people get arrested for something silly occasionally? it is good in the long run, if it brings justice to victims of other crimes. in order for society to function, there needs to be some order involved. if say who asked police to protect people, what about doctors? who asked them to help people? if we eliminate police, should we eliminate doctors as well? how can you HONESTLY feel SAFE knowing that you empowered people to destroy the current status quo, and to a degree where things like murder become relative and murderers are treated like common citizens? why do you say people are treated differently under capitalism? that is not true. and people are poor/homeless most of the time, because they are lazy.

[RedAnarchist]

ok so some people get arrested for something silly occasionally? it is good in the long run, if it brings justice to victims of other crimes.

How exactly?


in order for society to function, there needs to be some order involved.

There would be order in an anarchist society, it just wouldn't have laws and it wouldn't be hierarchical order.


if say who asked police to protect people, what about doctors? who asked them to help people?

Doctors don't arrest people and don't carry around weapons. They also haven't done anything to make people hate them.


if we eliminate police, should we eliminate doctors as well?

We can live without the police. We can't live without medical help.


how can you HONESTLY feel SAFE knowing that you empowered people to destroy the current status quo, and to a degree where things like murder become relative and murderers are treated like common citizens?

Murderers are common citizens. Who is to say that you won't kill someone in a years time, or 10 yeasr time? You can't just lump people into one group and generalise.


why do you say people are treated differently under capitalism? that is not true.

Oh, ok. I assume you are treated like a president or monarch then?


and people are poor/homeless most of the time, because they are lazy.

Typical moronic statement from someone who obviously has led a sheltered and middle-class life. Why don't you go to the nearest homeless shelter and ask people there why they are homeless? None will say because of laziness.

[raynai]

how do you reckon you would enforce this order? there are no laws so people can do whatever they want! laws keep things in place, and provide security. if you hate the police so much, what would you do if you found a wanted criminal? would you not report him to the police? if someone broke into your house and stole things, would you not report him to the police? also doctors screw up too, like misdiagnosis and messing up on surgeries as well, in such the same way as police arrest the wrong person. i know i am not like a murderer because i have morals, and i dont want to live with murderers. they are disgusting filth. what i meant to say regarding capitalism was that everyone is treated equally in terms of getting jobs, etc, no one is discriminated against for unjust reasons (or few people, but what is to say that people wont in an anarchist society, you dont everyone. also what is the motivation to work under anarchy? i wouldnt want to work!) and i fail to see how you dont realize they are poor because they are lazy. it\'s easy to improve yourself. anyone can get a job.

[mykittyhasaboner]

reading someone else\'s mail is not a felony. what crazy legal system do you live under?im living under the crazy legal system of the United States. and going through peoples mail is a federal offense, so its not like the police are lenient about.



ok so some people get arrested for something silly occasionally? it is good in the long run, if it brings justice to victims of other crimes. yes they do. people getting arrested for drug charges is silly.then loitering, jay walking, trespassing is the worst one of all. ive seen people be arrested/harassed by police for all these things. they all seem pretty silly for me.



in order for society to function, there needs to be some order involved.so according to you order is: stopping people from taking drugs even though they have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, and having police arrest and harass people for silly crimes? that doesnt sound very orderly to me, it sounds like the state restricting my freedom.


if say who asked police to protect people, what about doctors? who asked them to help people? if we eliminate police, should we eliminate doctors as well? why would anyone want to eliminate doctors?


how can you HONESTLY feel SAFE knowing that you empowered people to destroy the current status quo,quite safe :cool:



and to a degree where things like murder become relative and murderers are treated like common citizens? well the soldiers that the US sends to the middle east are murders, should they be treated as common citizens? i mean since "we had to go into iraq to respond to the aggression":rolleyes::drool:


why do you say people are treated differently under capitalism? that is not true. and people are poor/homeless most of the time, because they are lazy.no it is very true. why are lower class citizens not given proper health care and education, while upper class citizens can afford all of that?

you think people are homeless because they are lazy!? :laugh:

[Q]

Bai raynai

[raynai]

drug charges are completely just. same with traspassing (to some degree). yes some laws are silly, but i follow them anyways. freedom is never absolute. in my ideal society, i would get rid of some of the silly laws (which arent prevalent anyways!). people do not have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, because drugs harm MORE than the person using them. the soldiers are NOT murderers ebcause they are securing freedom. that is the same arguement as saying the executor is a murder for killing a murderer

[RedAnarchist]

how do you reckon you would enforce this order?

An anarchist society would be voluntary, as there is no coercion. However, by the time one comes around, most people would want to be part of such a society.


there are no laws so people can do whatever they want!

No, you couldn't, because there would still be a community and such a community would allow people to have their needs met.


laws keep things in place, and provide security.

No, laws are just rules enforced by control freaks.


if you hate the police so much, what would you do if you found a wanted criminal? would you not report him to the police?

Why? Has he even been convicted of a crime? If he poses no threat to me, why should I?


if someone broke into your house and stole things, would you not report him to the police?

He wouldn't have to if capitalist society gave him the same opportunities in life that it gives to the rich.


also doctors screw up too, like misdiagnosis and messing up on surgeries as well, in such the same way as police arrest the wrong person.

Since when did a doctor do such things on purpose?


i know i am not like a murderer because i have morals, and i dont want to live with murderers.

Ok, so if you got attacked, would you defend yourself? If yes, how would you be able to prevent them from getting any injury which could potentially be fatal?


they are disgusting filth. what i meant to say regarding capitalism was that everyone is treated equally in terms of getting jobs, etc, no one is discriminated against for unjust reasons

No, some people can't afford to go to college, which means that rich people can often get better jobs than a lot of working class people.


or few people, but what is to say that people wont in an anarchist society, you dont everyone. also what is the motivation to work under anarchy? i wouldnt want to work!

Why? People wouldn't need to work anywhere near as much as they do nowadays.


and i fail to see how you dont realize they are poor because they are lazy. it\'s easy to improve yourself. anyone can get a job.

Women tend to get paid less. A lot of companies still discriminate on the basis of race, disability, age, sexuality etc. And if you couldn't afford to go to college, you'll never get the same wage as a richer person could get.

[raynai]

on a completely unrelated note, why does it say i am restricted?

[Comrade Rage]

what i meant to say regarding capitalism was that everyone is treated equally in terms of getting jobs, etc, no one is discriminated against for unjust reasons (or few people, but what is to say that people wont in an anarchist society, you dont everyone.
What are you talking about? People are always getting passed over for jobs.
A lot of times it's because of race, gender or political affiliation.

Also: I saw you backtracking from your idiotic statement earlier. You think that if it's only a few people it doesn't matter. WELL---IT DOES.

I think it may happen under anarchism, and that's part of why I believe that socialism is the answer.

and i fail to see how you dont realize they are poor because they are lazy. it\'s easy to improve yourself. anyone can get a job.I've been trying to get a job for over a year.

Where do you think people are actually going to find jobs? They've left!

[Comrade Rage]

on a completely unrelated note, why does it say i am restricted?

Because you are an obvious capitalist, and possible right-winger.

Capitalists are restricted here and can only post in Opposing Ideologies, Learning and Tech Support.

[RedAnarchist]

drug charges are completely just

Why are they "just"? Why should someone be punished for daring to take a drug?


same with traspassing (to some degree).

Trespassing? How do you trespass, unless you actually went into an house without permission? Land is not a commodity, it is for all to use.



yes some laws are silly, but i follow them anyways.

Wow, an admitted sheep.


freedom is never absolute.

But why not give people as much freedom as possible?


in my ideal society, i would get rid of some of the silly laws (which arent prevalent anyways!).

We don't need laws.


people do not have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, because drugs harm MORE than the person using them

Even if they do it in the privacy of their own home?



the soldiers are NOT murderers ebcause they are securing freedom.

For whom? I don't think the Iraqis are very free right now.


that is the same arguement as saying the executor is a murder for killing a murderer

Aren't they? They intended to kill the person, and murder is the intentional killing of a person.

[raynai]

RedAnarchist what if i dont want to be in your society? so you are also saying that if someone was wanted and you saw him you would not turn him in? i bet he thanks you, cause now he can kill more people and you are directly responsible!!! and under capitalism EVERYONE has equal oppertunities, some people choose not to get ahead in life and that is their fault, so why should we HELP someone who isnt helping himself?

[RedAnarchist]

RedAnarchist what if i dont want to be in your society?

Fine, don't be part of it. Just don't expoit anyone, harm anyone, or do anything to them that they don't want you to.


so you are also saying that if someone was wanted and you saw him you would not turn him in?

Isn't that what the police are for?


i bet he thanks you, cause now he can kill more people and you are directly responsible!!!

Yeah, of course I am. And if he was seen by 50 other people who didn't turn him in? Are they all directly reposnible as well?


and under capitalism EVERYONE has equal oppertunities, some people choose not to get ahead in life and that is their fault, so why should we HELP someone who isnt helping himself?

You're a idiot, you know that? Do you have the same opportunities as someone from a rich family?

[mykittyhasaboner]

drug charges are completely just. same with traspassing (to some degree). yes some laws are silly, but i follow them anyways. freedom is never absolute. in my ideal society, i would get rid of some of the silly laws (which arent prevalent anyways!). people do not have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies, because drugs harm MORE than the person using them.

drug charges are not just because the state has no right to forcefully take custody of a person simply for using a drug. and you say we should kill drug users! wtf is the matter with you. you sound like a chrisitian fundamentalist.

in your ideal society i would overthrow your government.









the soldiers are NOT murderers ebcause they are securing freedom. that is the same arguement as saying the executor is a murder for killing a murderer
stop regurgitating the US ruling class propoganda. its really old. yes the executor is a murderer for killing a murderer.

so the soldiers arent murderers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU

[Q]

Because you are an obvious capitalist, and possible right-winger.

Capitalists are restricted here and can only post in Opposing Ideologies, Learning and Tech Support.

What? They can post in Learning too now? Bah.

[raynai]

it is just because a person taking a drug harms others, not just him. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? and too much freedom IS NOT GOOD IT CAUSES TURMOIL. i hate when certain people have the right to express their opinion, and they should not like neo-nazis etc. land is not for everyone to use, its property that YOU buy and its YOUR property. the iraqis are not free now, but we are not finished. anyone can make better of themsleves regardless of situations. i\'ve ehard many success stories of people beating the odds.

[mykittyhasaboner]

it is just because a person taking a drug harms others, not just him. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? ah so somebody thats sitting at home by themselves, and they take a drug, they are harming someone else? are you honestly suggesting this? and you dont have to say it at all because its not true.



and too much freedom IS NOT GOOD IT CAUSES TURMOIL. i hate when certain people have the right to express their opinion, and they should not like neo-nazis etc.too much freedom causes turmoil? why dont you try and prove this instead of just saying stupid shit like this?

i hate it when people express stupid opinions too, like yours. but they should be free to express this opinion whether everyone agrees or not.


land is not for everyone to use, its property that YOU buy and its YOUR property.no all land is for everyone.




the iraqis are not free now, but we are not finished.when the US government is finished the Iraqi people will all be dead, not free.


anyone can make better of themsleves regardless of situations. i\'ve ehard many success stories of people beating the odds.
did you even watch the video? you said US soldiers arent murderers. yet they are ordered to kill everybody in a crowded place if one person fires on them.

[RedAnarchist]

it is just because a person taking a drug harms others, not just him.

How? Explain this in more detail so we can understand you.



HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? and too much freedom IS NOT GOOD IT CAUSES TURMOIL.

Don't write in all capitals, please.


i hate when certain people have the right to express their opinion, and they should not like neo-nazis etc.

So? And using neo-nazis as an example won't help your arguments look better to us.



land is not for everyone to use, its property that YOU buy and its YOUR property.

Who owned it first? Someone at first must have decided to keep a portion of land for themselves.


the iraqis are not free now, but we are not finished.

Who is "we"? And seeing as the US started with a lie, I doubt they will ever be "finished".


anyone can make better of themsleves regardless of situations. i\'ve ehard many success stories of people beating the odds

And yet the failure stories vastly outnumber the success stories. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

[raynai]

when people take drugs they are not able to think coherently and will likely cause harm because of it. they will use excessive violence, etc. they cannot drive, and will cause the death of innocents. too much freedom destroys morality. morality is the basis for every state. like allowing people to cause harms to another, hence why assault and murder are illegal. my land is my land, your land is yours. i dont want YOU on my property, afterall considering i bought it. i didnt watch the movie, but i have heard lots of stories about iraqis who are happy for american intervention. they are glad they were not gassed by a dictator anymore. and the civilians (altho not as prevlant as insurgents who are mainly killed) that are killed are justified in the long run if it creates a great peace and security for everyone.

[RedAnarchist]

when people take drugs they are not able to think coherently and will likely cause harm because of it. they will use excessive violence, etc. they cannot drive, and will cause the death of innocents.

But what about those who do it in their homes and stay there until the effects of the drug have worn off?


too much freedom destroys morality.

Then morality must be a bad thing.


morality is the basis for every state.

Why do we need to divide ourselves into superficial nations?


like allowing people to cause harms to another, hence why assault and murder are illegal.

That isn't morality, adn plenty of religious people have assaulted and murdered others.


my land is my land, your land is yours.

I don't own any land, and noone should.


i dont want YOU on my property, afterall considering i bought it.

I'll ask again - who did the first owner of land buy it off?


i didnt watch the movie, but i have heard lots of stories about iraqis who are happy for american intervention.

There will be, but I bet many of them won't be happy at how the Americans have intervened, or why the Americans intervened in the first place.


they are glad they were not gassed by a dictator anymore.

Oh no, now they get bombed and shot by foreign invaders.


and the civilians (altho not as prevlant as insurgents who are mainly killed) that are killed are justified in the long run if it creates a great peace and security for everyone.

Sounds like something Hitler would have said to justify the Holocaust.

[mykittyhasaboner]

when people take drugs they are not able to think coherently and will likely cause harm because of it. they will use excessive violence, etc. they cannot drive, and will cause the death of innocents. you say they will cause harm to innocents as if the drug user has no choice but to do so under the influence of a drug.



too much freedom destroys morality. morality is the basis for every state.thats a good thing. states need to be destroyed



like allowing people to cause harms to another, hence why assault and murder are illegal.
just because morality doesnt exist, doesnt mean everyone is going to go around killing each other! your so naive.


my land is my land, your land is yours. i dont want YOU on my property, afterall considering i bought it.
your a moron. ill abolish the basis for which you can own land. :D


i didnt watch the movie, but i have heard lots of stories about iraqis who are happy for american intervention.
so your ignoring proof that american soldiers are murderers!


they are glad they were not gassed by a dictator anymore. and the civilians (altho not as prevlant as insurgents who are mainly killed) that are killed are justified in the long run if it creates a great peace and security for everyone.
there not happy that bombs are dropped on their cities either. there not happy when there homes are searched and people taken away to be tortured and imprisoned either.

what makes you think that the US military is going to bring stability to Iraq anyways?

[trivas7]

Just as capitalism varies from country to country, there is no one model of what socialism must look like. If you build it, they will come.

[RedWorld]

when people take drugs they are not able to think coherently and will likely cause harm because of it

You seem to think that when you take drugs, you completely lose control of your bodily functions, I have taken drugs before and yet I still had the responsibility to not allow it to overcome me and influence me to commit irational or dangerous actions. If I ever smoke a spliff or do any other kind of recreational drug, it is within the comfort of my own home, or the home of a friend who is comfortable with me doing it or is also doing it. Based on your argument it seems you are not familer with drugs at a first hand level. I believe drugs can be enjoyed responsibly, if you allow a drug to manipulate your actions in a dangerous way then your a moron with no self control.

[Dust Bunnies]

The guy is now banned. This thread went off topic quite a bit though.

[jahmerimaka]

You are a fucking moron!