What is it with the US Army?? - These pricks are trying to g

[Sasafrás]

I walk into my Pre-Calculus class dreading the unit circles, law of sines, and every other trigonometric subject that one could imagine when, suddenly, I'm startled by two men: one wearing an Army sweatsuit and the other an "army green" uniform. Rather than discuss the curriculum in class, the representatives from the US Army talk to students between the ages of 16 and 18 about the "numerous possibilities" available to us from the US Army and Army Reserves. I was very disturbed to discover that two of my fellow students are in the Army and are still in high school! And, to lure us in even more, the man told us that the students in the military are earning lots of $$$ on the side as they're still in high school. I don't understand why the Army comes into our classrooms when we should be studying the necessities. As if the Channel One pro-military-Army-of-One propaganda isn't enough. Why is it that the Army uses money to attract us? And, why is it that money is even able to lure students into a "career" that sends them to faraway lands to meet exotic people and kill them?

Enlighten me....

[Ian]

That's worrying, they tried pulling that shit at my school and went around to every classroom and said "there is a meeting at lunchtime for people who are interested in joining the army, navy, or air force". I was the only person who attended and only to see if anyone else went.

They wanted my brother to train in the army for 6 weeks and recieve Aust. $2500 (about US$1250), he injured his knee at a convenient time and didn't go.

[antieverything]

It's different here in America, Ian.

They want to entice hopeless kids with no future into becoming career soldiers.

It's working too, we don't have any other outlet for kids who don't have any hopes of going to college, we just send em of to get killed (Capital's favorite way of disposing of excess labor power?) Especially in small towns where there are no jobs.

[GuErRrIlLa]

They called me at my house.

[truthaddict11]

a Navy rep came to my class and showed us a video with rock music blaring in the background and all cool shots of playing basketball on a carrier and such. plus the JROTC on campus.god they annoy me, whats next are they going to recruit kindergartners? the diaper brigade?

(Edited by truthaddict11 at 6:30 pm on Dec. 12, 2002)

[Danified]

I know what you guys mean.. they've called me multiple times and sent me letter after letter. Not only that, they come to our schools monthly and set up tables with recruiting information.

[Pete]

The glories of being an army cadet. Teach the youngins about the Cadet BS and tell them that the army sucks when the Fat Ugly Officers are looking the other way. I have friends joining the reserves because they do not know what to do. I have a friend in the Navy. We aren't a Naval Power anymore but we still have boats. It is quite annoying. My dad is a CIC officer, but I'm goina fuck the Cadet system to. Break through the brain washing. Fighting from the Inside to the Out

[BasementAddix]

theres nothing wrong with wanting to serve your county...and think realistically...they dont recruit much at colleges cause who spends 20g's a year to join the military?...think about it...

[MiNdGaMe]

Anyone heard of America's Army, its a game (propaganda) developed by the US Army, it involves a training course and is multiplayer which involves virtual combat., all your stats are stored by the US Army.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Let me get this straight...

You people have a problem with the US armed forces offering kids an opportunity to VOLUNTARILY join a force wich is highly reputable for building skills, discipline, and character? all while feeding, housing, and paying said kids?

Not all military jobs are combat roles. Individuals can learn engineering skills, mechanics, medical, linguistics, and a host of other skills too numerous to mention, that have practical application in the private sector. If other industries are allowed at school carrer fairs, why can't the US military make its pitch?

what exactly is the problem?

[El Brujo]

The army are a bunch of pesterous bastards but the Marines are much worse (where I live anyways). I think I once started a thread about how those bastards CAME TO MY HOUSE to try and recruit me, talk about fucking desperate. They don't stop recruiting in college either, Ive been approached many times by recruiters this semester.

[Aleksander Nordby]

What did you said do them then.

[Stormin Norman]

Yeah, what a shame it would be if our military were able to find new recruits. The operation of a volunteer army is the reason we don't have mandatory service in this country. This allows for ignorant people to have the benefit of their rights without the inconvenience of defending them with their lifes. This allows for loud mouth idiots to abuse such rights as freedom of speech with a large degree of predictablity in their daily lives. Because of these foul ogres who try to induct people into the horrible art of war we do not generally worry about having our heads blown off when we step out of the house. You're right! What gives them the right to engage in such inconsiderate behavior. Don't call, don't write, simpy protect me without bothering me with your existence.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 9:23 am on Dec. 18, 2002
Yeah, what a shame it would be if our military were able to find new recruits. The operation of a volunteer army is the reason we don't have mandatory service in this country. This allows for ignorant people to have the benefit of their rights without the inconvenience of defending them with their lifes. This allows for loud mouth idiots to abuse such rights as freedom of speech with a large degree of predictablity in their daily lives. Because of these foul ogres who try to induct people into the horrible art of war we do not generally worry about having our heads blown off when we step out of the house. You're right! What gives them the right to engage in such inconsiderate behavior. Don't call, don't write, simpy protect me without bothering me with your existence.

word up, dude

[James]

I see stormins point. I think its rediculous to have freedom and liberty - and to not be prepared to defend it. However, different people are better at different things. We arn't all rambo's. I myself am fit; but i have asthma. I doubt i'd be any good in combat - however i suppose i could entre the intelligence - sorry if that sounds really "stormy norminish".

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from James on 7:01 pm on Dec. 18, 2002
I see stormins point. I think its rediculous to have freedom and liberty - and to not be prepared to defend it. However, different people are better at different things. We arn't all rambo's. I myself am fit; but i have asthma. I doubt i'd be any good in combat - however i suppose i could entre the intelligence - sorry if that sounds really "stormy norminish".



exactly, james, many military roles are not direct-combat, but they are just as important to efficient military operations, and also teach skills that can be applied in the private sector if one chooses to leave the military after enlistment is up

I wonder if the people who object to the Army recruiting at school would also be offended if Greenpeace or the Red Cross recruited at their school.

[Stormin Norman]

Hey, no one can blaim you for recognizing what is right. For once we agree. That's a first.

[James]

exactly, james, many military roles are not direct-combat, but they are just as important to efficient military operations, and also teach skills that can be applied in the private sector if one chooses to leave the military after enlistment is up

I wonder if the people who object to the Army recruiting at school would also be offended if Greenpeace or the Red Cross recruited at their school.

But what if you disagree with the military? Its not fair to ask people to fight for something they disagree with. For example, would you join a socialist org?

Storm; we have agreed in the past. As i hope you know - i'm rather level headed.

[Capitalist Imperial]

sure its fair to ask, its a volunteer army. why is it not fair to simply ask?

all the kid has to do is say "no thanks"

what would not be fair would be to force one to join the military (something that communist contries do with "conscription")

[James]

i'm not familiar with the american system CI, but does the army simply ask just the once?

[Xvall]

In that case, Capitalist Imperial, you would have no problem with some sort of Revolutionary Communist Militia going into high school, replacing chemistry class so that they can try to recruit your kid. Correct? After all, if the United States military is allowed to do that, you should have no problem with the Cuban military, French military, Iranian military, Iraqi military, Vietnamese military, North Korean military, or Chinese military doing the same thing, right? They're only going to show the students the endless posibilities and opportunities that could result from their initiation into their military? Right? I can just go to your kid's school, and start teaching Marxism? Right!?

Yeah right.

God know that if communists, socialists, or even DEMOCRATS started doing something like that, to make them join their orginization or party, that the Republicans would be all over the place. *****ing about bleeding heart liberals and communist sympathisers going in there to indoctrinate all those beautiful young children. Boo-Hoo! Save me Captain America! I freaggin swear. You are such a hypocrite. So answer my question. You would have no problem with us people at che-lives, or the people in China, or in the Middle East going in to recruit children, right? Think of the possibilities CI!

[Xvall]

And sometimes, James, the army asks once. However, they are quite presistant. Regardless, school is a place to learn, to to recruit people. If people wanted to voulenteer they know how. Assuming that the student isn't an asanine imbicele, he or she will know what the military is, and know that if they felt like it, they could join. We don't need Patton coming up to us in the middle of math class to tell us that.

[Sasafrás]

Uh huh..

[Xvall]

"I wonder if the people who object to the Army recruiting at school would also be offended if Greenpeace or the Red Cross recruited at their school."

So do I! But here are a few facts you might want to consider.

[list]
Greenpeace and the Red Cross are not trying to recruit children.
Greenpeace and Red Cross don't go to other nations to kill people. You may argue that the United States military is 'protecting' people, but regardless, they are doing it with guns, and in order to carry out their objectives, they are required to kill.
If Greenpeace and Red Cross did do such a thing, congress would pass a law banning such acts. The Republicans would most definitely not accept it.
Greenpeace and Red Cross are international orginizations. They serve the interests of people all over the world. The United States military serves the United States, and allys of the United States. While the Red Cross (Crescent) might go into Iraq to help wounded people, I highly doubt the United States military would offer to do the same thing.
[list]

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from James on 9:26 pm on Dec. 18, 2002
i'm not familiar with the american system CI, but does the army simply ask just the once?


yeah, usually, usually they just have an information booth and kids come up to them, no "hard sells"

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 10:12 pm on Dec. 18, 2002
In that case, Capitalist Imperial, you would have no problem with some sort of Revolutionary Communist Militia going into high school, replacing chemistry class so that they can try to recruit your kid. Correct? After all, if the United States military is allowed to do that, you should have no problem with the Cuban military, French military, Iranian military, Iraqi military, Vietnamese military, North Korean military, or Chinese military doing the same thing, right? They're only going to show the students the endless posibilities and opportunities that could result from their initiation into their military? Right? I can just go to your kid's school, and start teaching Marxism? Right!?

Yeah right.

God know that if communists, socialists, or even DEMOCRATS started doing something like that, to make them join their orginization or party, that the Republicans would be all over the place. *****ing about bleeding heart liberals and communist sympathisers going in there to indoctrinate all those beautiful young children. Boo-Hoo! Save me Captain America! I freaggin swear. You are such a hypocrite. So answer my question. You would have no problem with us people at che-lives, or the people in China, or in the Middle East going in to recruit children, right? Think of the possibilities CI!


of course I would have a problem with another nations military on our school grounds, that is totally different.

but if an american communist party came and discussed poilitics and possible membership with kids, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, they would have the freedom to solicit their organization

[Xvall]

The 'opposing military' thing is understandable. But it is extremely surprising that you would not have a problem with an American Communist Party preaching the the kids. Regardless, I believe that (as I have said before) school is a place for learning. And that political/economic ideology should be kept personal, in the same way that religion should.

[Tkinter1]

Drake, join the philosphy club and teach Marxism. Or better yet, make the Marxist club and teach Marxism.

kids would still be informed of the military oppurtunites even if the US were Communist.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 1:59 am on Dec. 19, 2002)

[Xvall]

I considered that. But no. I do not want to teach marxism. I wouldn't mind if there was some sort of 'militay club' for military people to join, because they would only post fliers; and they wouldn't be interrupting class. My main concern is that I do not want school to be any sort of political or economic message board. If they started allowing that, eventually, any group could preach at school. Including racists and religious fanatics. I don't think we need any of that.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 9:12 pm on Dec. 19, 2002
I considered that. But no. I do not want to teach marxism. I wouldn't mind if there was some sort of 'militay club' for military people to join, because they would only post fliers; and they wouldn't be interrupting class. My main concern is that I do not want school to be any sort of political or economic message board. If they started allowing that, eventually, any group could preach at school. Including racists and religious fanatics. I don't think we need any of that.

class time should not be extensively used for anyones agenda, but 1 day out of the year in not a big deal

[Xvall]

Yes, but that's what I'm saying. Kids will still be informed about the military opportunities. At my school, they just have a little bullitin board in one of the hallways with military pamphlets in it. I still, however, do not think that they should interrupt class for it, or be persistent. Like I said, nearly everyone knows about military opportunities. What some schools are doing is unecesarry.

[BasementAddix]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:59 pm on Dec. 20, 2002
Yes, but that's what I'm saying. Kids will still be informed about the military opportunities. At my school, they just have a little bullitin board in one of the hallways with military pamphlets in it. I still, however, do not think that they should interrupt class for it, or be persistent. Like I said, nearly everyone knows about military opportunities. What some schools are doing is unecesarry.

its being done because recruitment is at a low...as a student i didnt mind it because it took a "break" from the bullshit of normal classes...

[James]

I considered that. But no. I do not want to teach marxism. I wouldn't mind if there was some sort of 'militay club' for military people to join, because they would only post fliers; and they wouldn't be interrupting class. My main concern is that I do not want school to be any sort of political or economic message board. If they started allowing that, eventually, any group could preach at school. Including racists and religious fanatics. I don't think we need any of that.


Right on Drake.

[pastradamus]

Those bastards called up my cousin just after the afganistan thing.he's one of the only people in his class that got the call,he thinks it was cuz he was actually born in Ireland but is a US citizen.He was doing reserve training at the time.

Still it dosent really bother him.But its just plain silly coming into the schools.they use ad-campagins over here which seem to work,rather then wasting school time.

[Moskitto]

I wouldn't mind being a commando, but I want to be a toxicologist so maybe not,

[honest intellectual]

No doubt, to ensure impartiality, they will also have recruitment officers from the FARC and the EZLN come to your school

[rebel with a cause]

At Garfield High School here in L.A., (a highly Chicano/Latino population dense area) for every 1 college counselor, there are 5 military recruiters.

I got something in the mail the other day from the army, on the reply form they ask 2 questions, one was asking for them to send you a booklet about some crap, the other was if you spoke "spanish".

Funny how Mexicans have died the most in fighting for U.S. imperialist ambitions.

[Stormin Norman]

"I want to be a toxicologist"-Moskitto

Cool. Ask yourself this; do you really think when you start making money lazy individuals who chose not to seek an education have a right to tax you to death in the name of equality? Someone as smart as yourself has should seek a more appropriate worldview. Socialism is for the weak and lazy. I know you live in a country that devoted a large part of last century to the collective consensus, but take Thatcher's que. Like Mexico those policies were disasters. I think you will come around. Conservatism is not what you perceive at this moment. I think eventually you will come around. I have faith in your intelligence.

[rebel with a cause]

"Socialism is for the lazy and the weak."

Jesus Christ (yeah, i know im gonna get some flack)
Albert Einstein
Gandhi
Martin Luther King
Cesar Chavez

the lazy and the weak?

BULLSHIT!

Socialism requires more effort than capitalism ever will. People will exert their talents & skills to the best of thier abilities so that the whole society will benefit. There is no free ride, everybody puts out as much as they can and nothing less.

You still think with that common misconception (as I had once when I was younger and a capitalist, and thought socialism was handouts for the lazy and weak), this was said by Marx, and later stressed by Debs:


"Those who are able to work, and do not, do not deserve to eat."

I'll leave you with some quotes from Adam Smith:

"It was not by gold or by silver, but by labor, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased."

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy of which the greater part of the member are poor and miserable."

(taken from the Wealth of Nations)

[Tkinter1]

"Socialism requires more effort than capitalism ever will."

Yeah except people aren't willing to follow the type of effort that Socialism calls for.

"People will exert their talents & skills to the best of thier abilities so that the whole society will benefit."

PEOPLE AREN'T WILLING TO DO THIS YET!

"There is no free ride, everybody puts out as much as they can and nothing less."

I'm lazy, I don't want to work for some community. I'll fake an injury, or work half ass, and get the same exact shit as the guy next to me. People will think that I'm working my hardest, but fuck them. MY FREE RIDE!


What do you do when this happens?

[Tkinter1]

"Jesus Christ (yeah, i know im gonna get some flack)
Albert Einstein
Gandhi
Martin Luther King
Cesar Chavez"


And if everyone were a Jesus Christ or an Albert Einstein, we'd live in a wonderful ideal world wouldn't we? You can't force Socialism on people.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 4:01 am on Dec. 25, 2002)

[Bolschewik]

And if everyone were a Jesus Christ or an Albert Einstein, we'd live in a wonderful ideal world wouldn't we? You can't force Socialism on people.

This seems to be a misunderstanding. The original poster implied (i am presuming), all these socialists are socialists in their social views, not in their altruistic deeds. In other words, they are not 'ideal socialist citizens', rather proponents of a socialism-oriented social system.

[Tkinter1]

Proponents of a system are ideal citizens of one. Not everyone has the same outlook on life as these people.

[Bolschewik]

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 4:21 am on Dec. 25, 2002
Proponents of a system are ideal citizens of one. Not everyone has the same outlook on life as these people.

Not necesserily. Jesus's evangelism as well as the free thought of Einstein would not have been "ideal" for a stalin-era soviet union citizen. What Jesus and Einstein did was condemn destructive individualism and any such societies which may breed it. This is completely independent of any benevolent traits in Jesus or Einstein.