Hey Commies - A message about your "revolution"

[JebusSaves]

Hey Commies,
I decided to check out this site after wanting to learn more about Che. It was a face I saw often and decided I should educate myself by reading about the man before I passed judgement. What I found is what I had expected. Che was a Communist revolutionary. That is all fine and good. He joined a revolution to "better" the country of Cuba.
Now I was browsing this fine message board to find that a lot of people are getting ready for the "revolution." Now I hope you guys aren't talking about a revoluion in the US. Although I am in favor of many changes that many people may call left-wing or even downright utopian, I would never let the US become a Communist state. I would be the fist one to take up a gun and take out you dumb fucks.

I'll be waiting :)

[JoYKiLLaH]

i speak for all lefties,

fuck you- just stfu and gtfo- k thx :)

good day man, ill be coming for u

MODERATOR EDIT: Actually, no, this is not on behalf of all leftists, just the ones who forgot that there was probably a time in their lives when they thought communism is synonymous for dictatorship. No one was born knowing about communism, and nobody should expect everyone to know. SOMEONE has to teach it.

[JebusSaves]

Hey what did I do?

[Felicia]

ok, first of all, most of the people who talk about "revolution" aren't speaking seriously about it. And no one really speaks about it in context with the US. It's mostly about third world revolution, not first world.

[ComradeJunichi]

You are in favor of leftwing changes, but not in the US? That sounds great. Yes we're getting ready for revolution, I've got an AK, my gear, my pack, my attire. We have it all planned out, we have underground tunnels built sort of like the Vietcong did in Vietnam. You can't even imagine, the Whitehouse? Haha, that is nothing.

Hey JebusSaves, shoot me. You will be the first to die.

Have you read up on a lot about communism? Are you a nationalist by any chance? Yeah, Che did join the revolution for a better Cuba.

The US joined a revolution for the better world. I'm so glad they did. It's great they're taking out terrorists, and regime changes. They've been doing that even during the Cold War. Seriously, God Bless America. Spread the great revolution of America throughout the other countries. Regime changes now! Obviously, throughout history the US has proven to choose wisely in "regime changes".

I will be waiting for you.

[komsomol]

Well, from the sound of things you made no point other than you are going to oppose us, so, what else is there to expect than a wholehearted FUCK OFF!

[chamo]

Hey JebusSaves you are a piece of shit. i had to educate myself about communism and che because in school the stuff is bullshit drivel, i realized, "he fuck capitalism, im going for this shit" best thing i ever did. i hope you will lose your ignorance and someday see.

you are a full of shit little shit who eats shit, go eat shit

[JebusSaves]

Hey no reason to get hostile guys. I admit I may have said a few things to get yu fied up but that was o get some attention. Now I'm all for change anywhere and eveywhere. I'm sorry if I was mistaken about the whole 3rd world county thing. I can admit it when I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that Communisim is not an effective form of government. Look at Russia's situation. China and Cuba aren't looking to great these day either. I will glady take a bullet from you ComradeJunichi before I give into opression of a Comunist state. Surely, there can be chage without resorting to a form of government that is as lame as Coumunism

So fuck you!

[Corvus Corax]

I think you don't want USA to turn into a Communist state because your history teacher (that old man in the suit) told you it was a 'bad word'

[JebusSaves]

Well sinse I am so ignorant, can you guys please give me a good logical reason why the US should become a Communist state.

[JebusSaves]

Hey don't let me get the last word guys.

[ComradeJunichi]

Hahahahahahahahaha. You should read before you judge.

Do you know what communism is?

Why isn't Cuba looking too great? Russia, HAHA. Excuse me sir, the Soviet Union collapsed 10 years ago. China? Bah.

Opression of a communist state? How about opression of a capitalist state. Tell me about Bush's situation.

You're saying communism is not an effective form of government, but you don't even know what it is.

Communism is lame? Haha, yeah nice way to show your intelligence in the subject.

Actually, Bush is doing a goodjob. He is changing the government without choosing to use a lame 'government' of communism. All heil Bush and the Fourth Reich. SEIG...HEIL! SIEG...HEIL!!!

[JoYKiLLaH]

bush is just below hitler on the political compass in my opinion.

why are the communist states failing? cuz free market is making them.

its fuckin everything over to its way or they wont work

[ComradeJunichi]

God, this thread pisses me off.

My opression in a communist state. Communism is about liberating the proletariat of its chains. No wait, that's slavery.

Capitalism is real freedom. Why go for communist slavery, when you can sit back relax as you watch the proletariat do the work for you?! It's great, it's modified manorism! Yeah!

You dumb commies you're just trying to exploit the proletariat! Join the capitalist revolution!

[ComradeJunichi]

DON'T LET ME GET THE LAST WORD. C'MON DON'T LET ME GET THE LAST WORD. DON'T LET ME GET THE LAST WORD, AW C'MON!!!

[JebusSaves]

You know what? Your right. I should try reading this shit first. But you cannont deny the fact that capitalism is doing pretty well. And if you think that Bush is like Hitler than I think you might be the one who doesn't hae a clue. You got to face the fact that there is no form of government that will ever be perfect. People are always going to be pissed off and want to make a change. My only question is WHY??? WHY comunisim can't you intelligent people form a new form a government that might actually work?

Let me know and please can't we just get along. I told you before I only said half that shit to get attention.

[BOZG]

1)Please never say that Cuba, China or the USSR were/are communist because they are not and never have been.
2)If you think capitalism is doing well then you are very very mistaken. You think capitalism is doing well because it is the dominant ideology throughout the world, that does not mean it's doing well.

[JebusSaves]

OK I've had about enough of being told I don't know what is going on. I have admitted this. I want you guys enlighten me instead of just saying I don't know what I'm talking about. So please lets cut the shit and get to the education.

[ComradeJunichi]

Okay, I'll drop the flaming. Sorry. Well first you can read about some definitions and writing on socialism/communism on the internet. Say...um...www.marxists.org. There's loads of stuff there.

Second, before you tell us that communism can't work you should know what it is. So you dont make a fool of yourself.

Bush is like Hitler, not literally. So do you think Bush is doing a good job? ::rolls eyes::

I agree, there will be no system that is perfect. Doesn't mean we should drop all hope and try to fix it. If you had a car for a few months, you know you can't make it perfect again...or as good as new. You've had a car crash, dents, lights/glass broke, tire popped, etc. Does that mean you're not gonna TRY to fix it? You know you can't get it to be just like it.................okay sorry, that wasn't a good example - I suck with examples.

[RedCeltic]

JebusSaves,

There is a large number of Socialist/communist and anarchist groups in the United States, most of which are quite serious and don't support a violent revolution.

Communists and Anarchists always have a bad reputation due to the violent nature of some of our most vocal members. We have hundereds of people working to feed the homeless with programs like "Food Not Bombs" yet one silly kid brags about stoming Capital hill with AK 47 in hand and that becomes the steriotype. It's quite sad really.

[JebusSaves]

I will read up. Thanks for not letting me bash you guys without knowing my shit first. I hope you guys will hear from me again. Only this time with more information.

[Michael De Panama]

Enough with the attacks on this guy, you dumbfucks. It doesn't help the situation. It makes us all look like stupid animals who can't defend our own beliefs. This is a fucking embarassment.


Quote: from JebusSaves on 5:34 pm on Dec. 10, 2002
Hey no reason to get hostile guys. I admit I may have said a few things to get yu fied up but that was o get some attention. Now I'm all for change anywhere and eveywhere. I'm sorry if I was mistaken about the whole 3rd world county thing. I can admit it when I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that Communisim is not an effective form of government. Look at Russia's situation. China and Cuba aren't looking to great these day either. I will glady take a bullet from you ComradeJunichi before I give into opression of a Comunist state. Surely, there can be chage without resorting to a form of government that is as lame as Coumunism

So fuck you!

I believe that you have a great misconception as to what kind of revolution we're talking about here.

First off, the governments of China, Russia, and Cuba were in no way communist, but rather authoritarian dictatorships. The economies of all these countries, however, were socialist.

Socialism is an economic system, and can have many different forms of governments. I personally am in favor of democratic socialism, while other fascists out there want a more despotic structure. The way I see it, socialism without democracy is nothing more than fascism.

Communism, on the other hand, is a socio-economic system in which all goods are equally distributed and there are no social classes. In essence, this is democracy in it's absolute purest form, where one man does not overpower another man with money or political influence or anything. This type of society has never existed. This is the "goal" of the Marxist revolution.

According to Marx, however, we must go through a transition period of socialism in order to condition the society to the greedless atmosphere of communism. This is a totally sociological point of view. The tyrants of the USSR and China and the like call themselves "Communist" because their fascist governments, in attempt to look revolutionary and appeal to the masses, put on the big act that this dictatorial oppression is supposed to be this transition period between capitalism and communism.

The communists recognize this as bullshit, and understand that socialism will fail unless executed democratically. The few of those who call themselves "communist" and support an authoritarian government structure usually fall in the category of a bitter USSR nostalgic, a rebellious kid trying to piss his parents off, or just a complete uninformed follower. The true communists do not accept these people as contributors of their movement, and do not fight alongside them, as our goals are complete opposites.

[antieverything]

Actually, capitalism is doing quite well...when it comes to creating wealth, that is. The problem is how the wealth gets distributed.

[Michael De Panama]

Just to point it out, the attacks I'm talking about also include this "Ha ha ha! I'm so much more informed than you about communism, because I'm a communist! Ha ha ha! You're so stupid." bullshit. Nobody out there is going to even attempt to look at things from a different perspective when you do this to them. Of course you're more well read on communism than he is! You're a fucking commie. You SHOULD be more well read! And you should also be putting your knowledge towards something constructive, not destructive. Help the cause. Enlighten the people. Don't push them away. Show a little bit more respect, and people will listen to you.

Sorry I had to scold you all, but this REALLY pissed me off. Don't take it the wrong way. I'm just looking out for the movement.

[JebusSaves]

OK thats what I've been waiting for, some good info. Thanx Michael De Panama. Bu my problem with a completly equal society is the basic fact that all people are different. I mean if I work my ass off and my neighbor only does enouh to get by then are we still going to have the same house, money, and oppurtunities? In my understanding, it seems like then your taking away individuality which is an essential part of existance. It's a good idea to give everyone the same advantages and only those who work hard can achive a better stanad of living. Right?

[antieverything]

The answers will vary depending on who you ask...whatever, it's a matter for discussion.

[Michael De Panama]

The argument you bring is precisely why a society cannot jump from capitalism to communism without the socialist transition.

Capitalism has conditioned us all into the belief that our worth in society is measured by the amount of money we make, which is then measured by the job that we have and how much work we put into it. Many capitalists call this "human nature", but in reality, no one would survive in the capitalist world unless we had this frame of mind.

The capitalist mindset has not always existed. Prior to the industrial revolution, there was fuedalism, which brought a completely different way of thinking and motivation for work.

Socialism is not absolute equality, like communism is. It's relative equality. I agree with you about giving everyone the same advantages, and giving those who worked hard a better standard of living. That's the way I think a socialist society should be set up, until people have evolved to this way of life and no longer measure their worth by the money they make, which is when communism will come.

Just as the bourgeoisie was formed out of fuedalism, sparked a revolution, and gave birth to capitalism, capitalism has formed a class of oppressed workers, the proletariat, taking up the majority of the world, who will inevitably spark up a revolution of their own, is the way we see it. Socialism is simply a system designed in the favor of the proletariat.

When we've got people like Michael Jordan making more money off of Nike than the entire Malaysian workforce, just to put his name on the fucking shoe, equal distribution of wealth seems to be the ideal solution.

Also, I don't think this would kill off individuality at all. I think that economy is something man-made, and since your economic status is not an inherent aspect of your personality, sorting things out equally would only encourage people to be themselves, rather than deal with whether or not "themselves" are marketable or not.

[Smoking Frog II]

This is one funny thread.



>




My panties are soaking





>

[Aleksander Nordby]

Micheal de panama, wy do you say that sosialism needs democracy, it is democracy......................................... ......

[ComradeJunichi]

It's an economic theory, but it can use different political theories. But yes, it is democracy. Dictatorship of the proletariat, proletariat is the majority, hence democracy.

[Lardlad95]

Who teh fuck said we were all Communist?

DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST FOR LIFE

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from Aleksander Nordby on 5:06 am on Dec. 11, 2002
Micheal de panama, wy do you say that sosialism needs democracy, it is democracy......................................... ......

From the Marxist perspective, yeah, the only way it can exist is with democracy, otherwise it's fascism/state capitalism/whatever you want to call it. There's still the possibility of a centrally planned authoritative society that uses a socialist planned economy, and it will still be considered socialist. There is NO possibility of an authoritarian society that could ever be considered communist, as communism abolishes authority.

The whole "dictatorship of the proletariat" has also been twisted around by many to imply that there must be an established dictatorship that happens to be working in favor of the proletariat. This, of course, is a load of bullshit. As Junichi said, it's supposed to be the rule of the majority, the proletariat, over the minority, the bourgeoisie, through the establishment of a true democracy.

[anti machine]

Who is this dumbass ignoramus, coming in here and blabbing his mouth about shit he heard mentioned in his Social Studies class. Fuck off, Jebus.

[Spartacus2002]

I am serious about revolution, peaceful if possible, violent if neccessary, but i would start in the third world it'd be foolish to try in the Brainwashed states of america.

[JebusSaves]

Thanks for the intelligent insight antimachine. You have opened my eyes to your side of the argument. I don't know what I was thinking. haha If I'm such a dumb fuck, why do you give a shit what I think? If you actually read the posts you would see I have admitted that I as wrong and shouldn't have said half the shit I did. So who is the ignorant prick now? :)

[Geddan]

Yo yo...

Reasons for being a communist:

1. The working class' chains have been ripped off.

Today, a corporation's owner can get like 50% of the corporation's profit, although he doesn't really work, only owns the corporation. The workers who do everything essential share the rest of the money. Without the workers, the owner is shit. Without the owner, the workers are no longer treated as animals.

2. Truly egalitarian

In a communist society, you won't, as you think, split everything exactly equal, but you will give the same wage for the same work (if you work 8 hours a day you'll be given 800 bucks, we say. Your friend works 2 hours a day and will be given 200 bucks). The day you and your friends realize that your neighbour ain't doing shit, he won't get any money, or be warned that if he don't stop living of your labour, you won't feed him. One day he will grow himself some food or contribute to the society. If he grows his own food and stays outside the rest of the society it is fine, he is working, but you won't have to provide his meals.

When you split everything as equal as possible, no exploitation of the world will exist. No longer will 30 000 people die every day from the globalisations downsides, such as starvation.


3. Final fuck off to hierarchy and corrupting power, overproducing. Through the plane economy or whatever it is called in English, you can always control production so you won't produce too much, thus no waste of materials. With no hierarchy, no one could order you to do something you don't want to, no one could push you around, and so on.

Well, this description sucks, I know. When I have to send messages from my mobile phone, hang around at IRC and ICQ and still write this message, things get hard.

[Umoja]

Democratic Socialism all the way!

Seriously though, Communist revolution is desirable because revolutions have the realist and idealist and both of them have troubles with each other. More gradual change is much more effective.

[Socialist Pig]

I believe a violent revolution is the only way. The government and the ruling class will not relinquish their power through any democratic means.

[lifetrnal]

Jebusaves,

The revolution will come in this country, it must. What kind of revolution will it be? A revolution of thought and society... as well as a *change* in the way we are governed. Capitalism is unsustainable, those who are rich can not maintain there wealth at the cost of the rest of the world forever... change will come.
As for us all being communists... some are yes, but not all. We have socialists here as well, and as in my case anarchists... we have diffrent ideologies but share a common goal: human freedom and economic justice.

[JebusSaves]

Quote: from lifetrnal on 10:39 pm on Dec. 11, 2002
Jebusaves,

The revolution will come in this country, it must. What kind of revolution will it be? A revolution of thought and society... as well as a *change* in the way we are governed. Capitalism is unsustainable, those who are rich can not maintain there wealth at the cost of the rest of the world forever... change will come.
As for us all being communists... some are yes, but not all. We have socialists here as well, and as in my case anarchists... we have diffrent ideologies but share a common goal: human freedom and economic justice.



The change is going to happen I know this and accept it. I'm not a supporter of capitalism or anything. I'm still looking. I have my own views that don't nessasarily adhere to any currnt from of government. But I do agree with the comman goal and if that is achieved then the world will be a better place, but you must keep in mind that then we will be the ones that are the targets. And we will be the system the people will try to destroy. So I want to appologize to any communits or socialits I my have offended. Your views are as valid as mine and I am not usually so close minded.

[antieverything]

Good for you. Notice how some of the fake-ass punks here (yeah, some of you guys are fake-ass punks!) can't take it when someone plays devil's advocate.

Name-calling is the last refuge of the moron.

[Umoja]

I'm sure your views fit somewhere JebusSaves, why not post them here?

[lifetrnal]

Jebusaves,


Don't look at me when you say that people will want to destroy the system. I'm an anarchist, I don't believe in a system... I believe in mutal-aid, free-association, and respect. I think governments are oppressive and bead a ruling class, who uses violence to oppress people. Let me also be clear, IT IS GOOD that you are looking, and seeking to educate yourself. That is the mark of a GOOD human bieng, and all that any of us could ever ask out of someone.

[anti machine]

Well Jebus (a Simpsons fan apparently, at least we can agree on something), no need for sarcasm. I simply felt that wasting my time and energy on someone as blantanly oblivious as you would be futile and not worth the effort. Pardon me if you "changed your mind". It just pisses me off when people associate the self-proclaimed socialist governments with communism without even referring to the writings of Marx. A revolution void of individual power would and will work. Let it be said that a devout anti-commuist has no soul, or faith in his fellow man.

Oh, and antieverything--I sure as hell hope you're not classifying me as a "fake-ass punk". I welcome an argument from the devil's advocate, so long as it is well-founded, which this was obviously not. Trust me, I'll go toe to toe with you on Marxist theory and leftist philosophy any day. But I'm sure I wasn't the intended "fake-ass punk", so there probably isn't any problem here.

[anti machine]

sorry Jebus, I hadn't read all of your replies. Read some good literature. I suggest some essays by Lenin and even Che.

[Veni Vidi Veci]

Because it'll work!!! not like that stupid presidency!! And people who go round sayin - 'lately all of our imports have been coming from overseas!'