Alternatives to "raising" kids

[Hexen]

I wonder if there's any alternatives for "parenting" rather than having two or a single biological or "step" Parent(s) acting like slave owners within in a hierarchical family structure? (although I'm not having kids myself but I just wondering)

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Communal raising has been mooted by many throughout the years, including Plato in The Republic. The problem is that, although children do not necessarily need their biological parents to develop healthily, they do need a lot of individual attention or else they could face psychological problems later on in life. It's hard to ensure that every child gets the necessary level of attention and care in a communal raising environment.

[534634634265]

im a recently a father and i think often about how i can best bring my daughter into this world. its scariest to think about how i thought of and approached young women. she'll have to experience THAT one day.


EDIT: the family structure im part of isnt exactly your nuclear family either. the mother and i are separate and individual. we meet often to discuss our daughters future and any concerns we have in her upbringing. we are both in school, but i'll be a graduate before my daughter is 3 so i hope be able to provide a strong and positive father figure for her, without any trauma or hardship.:(

[Bud Struggle]

im a recently a father and i think often about how i can best bring my daughter into this world....so i hope be able to provide a strong and positive father figure for her, without any trauma or hardship.:(

Good luck on being a father. It's the most rewarding thing you could ever do in your life.

[Killfacer]

congratulations crackedlogic.

Can the author of this thread expand upon the subject? Whats wrong with conventional upbringing?

[spartan]

Well some traditionalists would say "If it aint broke dont fix it" but the trouble is the "traditional" family unit isn't working as seen by the huge problems parents have nowadays balancing work and family life. (Which often leads to divorce and/or huge amounts of stress and depression for overworked single parents)

As such alternatives should be looked at especially as people's "traditional" roles have changed so much over the last half century.

For instance the traditional family a century ago basically worked like this: Man and woman marry and dont get divorced (Socially unacceptable), they have children (Usually more than one if they are able) and mum is expected to not only look after the kids but also the house whilst dad goes to work and is the main "bread earner" of the family which means everything pivots on him as he is the main source of income for the whole family. (Thank god for the welfare state as you would be shocked at what south Wales miner families went through if the man of the family was disabled and couldn't work, though as this was Wales there was a great community spirit which meant that neighbours and the local church would always help out)

Of course now women are increasingly going into the workplace (As the traditional family unit of one bread earner simply isnt enough to live a comfortable life in our day and age, and women are increasingly not wanting to just have a life of looking after children and the house) and this has meant even more pressure as neither of the parents can afford to give the time and attention needed for raising their children if they are both working.

One way of solving this is having a better childcare system that looks after children whilst their parents work or increasing the amount of hours children have at school. The former was done in East Germany i believe and was a resounding success.

Of course their system was free and under state control, any attempt at replicating this in our consumer obsessed free market society nowadays would probably fail:(

As such the only way of solving this problem is to have a Socialist revolution:lol:

[Killfacer]

the fact that it works for alot of people would seem to suggest that a complete overhaul would be silly. Maybe it should be "if its a bit broken, then dont just throw it away, repair it a bit".

[Bud Struggle]

the fact that it works for alot of people would seem to suggest that a complete overhaul would be silly. Maybe it should be "if its a bit broken, then dont just throw it away, repair it a bit".
The system works quite well. I was raised in a traditional family and I'm raising my children in a traditional family. Hopefull my kids are as happy and secure as I was when I was a child.

Here's a picture of me and my wife on our wedding day.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/MercutioTomK/59035506thehappycouple1972-1.jpg

Admittedly, I was a tad more right of center than I am today. :)

[Killfacer]

i like the viking outfit. I might wear it on my wedding day also. (often sarcasm doenst work online so i better point out i was being sarcastic). I agree with you tom. I was brought up well and any poor upbringing can usually be attributed to the parents. Hence i dont see why there is a problem with the conventional method for bringing up kids.

[534634634265]

my parenting system would be considered normal and im perfectly happy, as is the mother, in raising our child in a non-traditional household/lifestyle. its the duty of the parents to raise their children successfully, no one specifies how.

[TC]

Good luck on being a father. It's the most rewarding thing you could ever do in your life.

LOL clearly you don't think very highly of him then!

[Bud Struggle]

LOL clearly you don't think very highly of him then!

Being a parent is certainly the most rewarding thing I do in my life--and I have a pretty interesting and rewarding life. But it's so much more enjoyable to see your kid succeed or win some award or to acomplish something than it ever was for me to do those things.

There really is a fufillment to life in having and raising children that no other human endeavor comes close to.

I love it. I love my children and I love my wife.

[RGacky3]

Well some traditionalists would say "If it aint broke dont fix it" but the trouble is the "traditional" family unit isn't working as seen by the huge problems parents have nowadays balancing work and family life. (Which often leads to divorce and/or huge amounts of stress and depression for overworked single parents)

Thats not the traditional family failing, thats the traditional family along with Capitalism and the lifestyle and attitude it brings, volumes could be written about what Capitalism has done to the relationship between spouses and children, to me personally its almost sickening.

Single parent households are simply not as effective as having both parents, and the love on has for his own biological child will always be more than for a non-biological child, as far as communal parenting goes, I'm very very sceptical, I think the traditional (natural) way works the best.

I would even say that hederosexual parents, i.e. a man and woman, would be more effective than homosexual parents, because than the child has both a father and mother figure, which does make a difference, although loving homosexual parents are much muc better than non-loving hederosexual parents.


Parent(s) acting like slave owners within in a hierarchical family structure? (although I'm not having kids myself but I just wondering)

That attitude is where I think radical leftists go a little too far, there is a big difference between family hiarchies (parents over children) and non-natural hiarchies like the state or Capitalism.

BTW Tomk, really? That was you? You freaking wierdo.


Man and woman marry and dont get divorced (Socially unacceptable)

Really? Socially unacceptable? Well I don't know about you, I live in California, and its pretty much expected, and from people I've seen, divorce is one of the worst things that can happen to a childhood, and it stems from, in my opinion, Capitalism, and how it distorts human relationships.


One way of solving this is having a better childcare system that looks after children whilst their parents work or increasing the amount of hours children have at school.

The way to solve it is to have a society where the paretns can spend time with their children rather than work all the time, father and mother, you can't replace parents with foster care. I've also seen kids raised in day care centers, it makes a big difference. Capitalism has destroyed more families than all the 'scares' that the right wing has come up with (Gay marriage, heavy metal, communists :P, feminism.)

[Bud Struggle]

BTW Tomk, really? That was you? You freaking wierdo.

Yea! Those were my Stormfromt days. :lol:

I wear this outfit now that I post on revLeft:

http://rusnavy.com/history/interesting/images/ad8.jpg


Really? Socially unacceptable? Well I don't know about you, I live in California, and its pretty much expected, and from people I've seen, divorce is one of the worst things that can happen to a childhood, and it stems from, in my opinion, Capitalism, and how it distorts human relationships.

I agree a lot of what you said--mostly about the value of a two parent heterosexual parent family--but I don't see why economic systems have anything to do with the stability of famlies. I thing you can have good strong families regardless of the economic system that you are under.

There was a lot of divorce in the Soviet Union, on the other hand at the exact same time there was very little divorce in Communist Poland--and that largely had to do with the role the Catholic Church played in Polish society.


The way to solve it is to have a society where the paretns can spend time with their children rather than work all the time, father and mother, you can't replace parents with foster care. I've also seen kids raised in day care centers, it makes a big difference.

I agree with spending time with kids--that is the single most important factor in rasing good responsible kids. Divorce is a big problem it takes one parent of the other away from their kids for extended periods of time, when my kids were younger--you could always tell by their behavior which kids had divorced parents.

[Robert]

Tell you a weird thing, to me: Mormons have one of the oddest religions I have come across, but their numerous children are among the happier, better adjusted and trouble free kids that I have seen.

Tom, she's too good for you. That is a great costume, though. the other one is ... what? German navy?

[eyedrop]

I still have a sentimental attachment to the romantic view of the vikings, even though I know they plundered, raped, tortured and killed as much as they could. As most human societies has done when on foreign ground curiously enough. (I guess reading a book by the name Histroy of Bestiality recently has influenced me a bit)

There are different kind of raising your kids in a traditional family though. Some raise their children by making them blindly obey them and fear them. I've worked at times with 12-13 year olds, in children schools, and saw how some of the workers there always tried to get the children to obey them by just screaming to them. It was ofcourse mostly ineffective as they were also completely inconsequential. I've never seen why one should command the children to do something while not explaining why they must do something. It takes shorter time though, at least if have a short time perspective. I found my liberal ways where much better at getting the children to behave decently, I had to be authorian at times though, but not without explaining why.


Children should be raised in a way which makes them the best person possible, not without rules. The rules must be justifiable though, if one ends up with "because i say so" you are just teaching them to obey adults. Teach them to question things from the start and be consequential about everything.

I've always rather liked having something the children looked forward too which I could take away, if the children broke any of the rules, instead of punishing them directly. If anyone breaks the rules you have agreed upon beforehand take away "your carrot" every time. It's more important that you mean what you say, than if you scream what you mean.


Never raised any children myself though, but I still thinks it pays of for you, and the child, to be consequential all the time.

Communal childraising may prove out to be quite good, and should in theory be up to the children. If they want to stay with their parents or go of to the child commune.

[Bud Struggle]

Tell you a weird thing, to me: Mormons have one of the oddest religions I have come across, but their numerous children are among the happier, better adjusted and trouble free kids that I have seen.

Tom, she's too good for you. That is a great costume, though. the other one is ... what? German navy?

Alas, the pic isn't of me. (My wedding pic is even more embarassing 1983 white wedding tux :rolleyes:) I got if off of the web. As far as the other pic--that's the official uniform of the Commie Club. I was only pretending I wear it.

This is my real uniform:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/MercutioTomK/BoilsBoatBabes4Web-1.jpg

I agree with you about the LDS--look at these kids on this web site below--you never saw anything so cute. Meanwhile they live in barracks, their father marries them off at 13 to 60 year old guys and become one of his 30 wives. freaking crazy.

http://fldsdress.com/

[Kwisatz Haderach]

There really is a fufillment to life in having and raising children that no other human endeavor comes close to.
Meh? That doesn't make any sense, seeing as how it's eternally recursive - you live to see your children succeed, so that they can live to see their children succeed and so on - so, then, what's the point of it all? Saying that you find fulfillment in life by raising kids is like saying that you find fulfillment in life just by living; it's circular.

[Bud Struggle]

Meh? That doesn't make any sense, seeing as how it's eternally recursive - you live to see your children succeed, so that they can live to see their children succeed and so on - so, then, what's the point of it all? Saying that you find fulfillment in life by raising kids is like saying that you find fulfillment in life just by living; it's circular.

Of course it circular. The human being is a circular creature--we live in the season of the year, we live in the season of life. The problem with you communists is that you've gotten away from the earth. On interesting about things like the Catholic church--is that they tie into the seasons, there is a fallow time of the year and a time fro abundance. We sort of miss those things in this techno world of ours.

Is that you Edric? I hate the way you Commies keep changing your names. :)

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Heh, you sound more like a pagan now. All that living close to the land must have affected your judgement. You need to spend more time surrounded by concrete and steel, to commune with technology. :D

[Bud Struggle]

Heh, you sound more like a pagan now. All that living close to the land must have affected your judgement. You need to spend more time surrounded by concrete and steel, to commune with technology. :D

I lived in Greenwich Village when I was in grad school, then the West side and finally CPS--till I moved to Florida. I still have a pied a terre on 57th street.

I know the city.

[Demogorgon]

Of course it circular. The human being is a circular creature--we live in the season of the year, we live in the season of life. The problem with you communists is that you've gotten away from the earth. On interesting about things like the Catholic church--is that they tie into the seasons, there is a fallow time of the year and a time fro abundance. We sort of miss those things in this techno world of ours.

Is that you Edric? I hate the way you Commies keep changing your names. :)
I think it's time to take out your flowered shirt, Tom :lol:

[Bud Struggle]

Damn it! All you Commies Clubers plot together in secret to, to, to overthrow Capialism and it Chosen Representitive, me. :lol: