Stupid Liberals - More ignorant than stalinists..

[Guest]

Heh, couldn't resist, though I feel wrong comparing such low creatures known as liberals to the higher intelligence figures called stalinists.

Reasons why liberals are stupid:

1. GR is a liberal

2. Peaccenicked is a liberal

3. Lots of other people I don't like are liberals

4. Liberals claim stalinists are ignorant, to be ignorant you have to have a closed mind. Now.. explain to me how one becomes a stalinist through ignorance. ALL of us (cappies and commies) have been programmed to think 'bad' everytime the name stalin is mentioned. We must have actually considered stalinism before passing it off. By opening our mind to new ideas, ie. stalinism, we are not ignorant but intelligent curious people who would rather learn about something usually passed off by the mainstream right and left as evil, while you are all generically communist. None of you really think, you just go on what another commie told you, and this all leads back to marx, wheras stalinism broke off from the marxist path, and we have to think about stalinism ourselves because stalinists are very hard to find, and are usually wary of being mocked so won't be so willing to educate you.

5. Liberals deny facts blantantly. For instance, many people here claim the United States 'sucks', ok yes, I have to agree, the united states does 'suck' in the long run, but right now I think its doing great, and great things for its people and friends. The majority of U.S citizens are happy with its goverment and many of you LIEberals seem to have it ingrained into you (somehow) that ANYTHING the U.S is automatically evil. I really wish you'd look at things before jumping, but of course you're a mainstream commie (oxymoron) so you don't really consider new ideas unless it might offend your parents.

6. Liberals claim to be humanitarian, but really establishing a utopian communist state is only temporary and in the long run is going to hurt the people who lived in it and find out their economy is dead 10 years after because the goverment is corrupt and run off with any left over cash. Liberals don't think ahead and put THIS generation before any other, while stalinists think ahead and put FUTURE generationS (notice the S) before the current one. If you don't understand this concept go read some other posts of mine I put more than 5 minutes into and you'll understand pretty quickly, I think I explain things easily.

7. A liberal thinks murderers shouldn't die for their crimes and should instead sit in prison doing nothing productive or beneficial and that the working class people should have to pay for these criminals to live. While I am against death penalty in the United States because they have such inhumane (though they're getting better, I'll admit it) executions.

8. A liberal would like everyone to read history books twice as long as you do now because they don't want to leave out the extrodinarily important women's vote movement (heh) because of course women voting really affects history and so many of these women vote now (cough, sarcasm). And besides, noone wants twice as much homework. So when you have to do 4 times as much work in senior year, blame the liberals and their political correctness.

9. A liberal doesn't think the U.S democracy works because most americans don't want the communist system, so they're AGAINST democracy if its not going their way, but of course, when THEY become leader of the world, democracy is allowed.

10. Liberals support dictatorships for stupid reasons, for instance, alot of liberals are against the war against iraq, why? 'Because its all about greed'. Well yes, I concur but isn't the U.S going to remove a dictatorship you so hate, and also, isn't democracy good when its not in the U.S? (see #9) 'Um... Hrmm tough one,' (its not really) 'If the U.S is supporting democracy its bad because the U.S is automatically bad,' oh I see, thanks for clearing it up liberal idiot. Now let me clear up my views on iraq for you, (you can always check the reasons not to go against iraq post for more detail) I don't want the U.S to goto war against anyone unless they really suffer for it, or their allies suffer for it, for instance, if iraq could significantly damage israel because of the U.S attack, I would be for it, also this is the reason I would support an invasion of North Korea, it would give them an excuse to nuke japan, seoul, and hongkong. But this is only one of the reasons I wouldn't support a war against iraq.

Ok, thats all I care to right for now, if any stalinists (or capitalists even) wanna jump in and bash liberals, be my guest. The more the merrier.

..Its been long overdue we struck back against your extrodinarily crappy attacks against us. (to see one of the poorest yet, go see peaccenicked's post on how stalinists are 'ignorant')

[boadicea88]

Right on, comrade :)

[new democracy]

lol. i see you are back b88.

[j]

"inhumane executions" what kind of executions are humane?

Because one does not believe in Stalinism does not make one ignorant. Ever consider that some of us really KNOW and have studied what Stalinism is and have come to our own conclusions?

I believe that the MAJORITY of Americans are not really happy with the government. However, the majority of THOSE WITH A VOICE are happy. This is the problem.

"so you don't really consider new ideas unless it might offend your parents."-What does this mean?

"Liberals don't think ahead." Let's see the environment, universal healthcare, social security--oh yeah, these aren't thinking about the future.

j

[Guest]

I'd rather have some pollution causing technology to protect me from all these enviromental troubles, I'm selfish, but I'm not greedy. Besides, I've long been an advocate of placing major pollution causing industries on the moon (seriously!) because after all, the moon is pointless, I also wondered if it could be used as a garbage dump, not much going on there, no life, no minerals, nothing.

"I believe that the MAJORITY of Americans are not really happy with the government. However, the majority of THOSE WITH A VOICE are happy. This is the problem."

Ok, you're welcome to go take a poll of all the students in your school or employees at your work, I don't care, you're saying something stupid right there that could easily be compared to the common lie (used by capitalists too) of "Most muslims don't hate america"

"Because one does not believe in Stalinism does not make one ignorant. Ever consider that some of us really KNOW and have studied what Stalinism is and have come to our own conclusions? "

Yeah I have but for the most post most of you haven't or your posts don't reflect this at all. Peaccenicked and all others involved in the 'stalinists are ignorant bastards' are good examples of this and you seem to have a limited view on why we are stalinist too. Its not so straight forward as "dead people are cool".

""inhumane executions" what kind of executions are humane? "

Being strapped to a chair and having 40,000 volts run through your body is inhumane and if it doesn't hurt I'll bet G.W bush would be more than willing to give you a test run after all, you just a 'hippie'.

""so you don't really consider new ideas unless it might offend your parents."-What does this mean? "

It means that the majority of the liberals here are only being communist because it goes against the grain of american society. teens in russia used to be anti-soviet too, and same with china now (tinamin square). When these kids grow out of it and become democrats they'll look back and think 'man I was such a dork in 9th grade.. oh wait I still am, I just don't call myself communist anymore'


B

[antieverything]

Well...except for #'s 4 and 8, it's right on.

Concerning 8, don't you think that woman--who are more than 50% of the population--deserve at least some mention in history books? It's not like anyone complains because 50.1% of the history book is focused on woman...it's just that the majority of the population fighting for their right to vote in a so called democracy is a pretty big thing in history!

[Politrickian]

Utopian Communist State????? WTF?????

[RedCeltic]

Most of this is simple name-calling and simple-minded reactionary thinking that suites non-thinking Stalinists well. the whole “Liberal” / “LIEberal” labeling of the entire left save for conservatives passing themselves off as communists ( Stalinists) marks you as an individual who knows very little about political science.


I’ll attempt to address what little thought you have in this post.

Your argument on point four is that Stalinists are high thinking people for they go against what is the accepted “kill a commie for mommy” and “red threat” propaganda that was ingrained in our society for the past fifty years. And therefore somehow “liberals” are ignorant, as they don’t see uncle Joe as a swell guy. However, Hitler is also a popular figure to demonize Is someone who worships Hitler closed minded or are the rest of the world that remember what he did? However, Hitler’s overused, let’s talk about some people in our own time shall we? What about followers of Jerry Fallwell, or Pat Robertson? The followers of these Christian Fundamentalist knot heads may very well have sat down and rationally thought out the pros and cons of being a Christian Fascist, I mean Fundamentalist. They also may be highly educated individuals. This still does not take away from the fact that they are ignorant of the damage their bad policies cause on humanity.

In number five you take the concept of Anti-Americanism and Un-Americanism and blow it out of proportion to the size that creates cartoonish figures out of anyone who questions the mighty superpower. I don’t think anyone can deny that the United States has done beneficial things for it’s citizens and it’s neighbors. I seriously doubt that anyone, including the two people you tarred and feathered in the beginning of your post, thinks that all the United States has done is bad. However the majority of people merely focus on the good points of the US and the System, and rarely focus on the bad points, which is what we try to discuss and change.

Does the system work? For some, yes. However there are many people who fall through the cracks and they will not be ignored!


In number six you attempt to display your extra sensory perception and read the minds of all these so-called “Liberals” you mention, who apparently will recreate the same mistakes as the Soviet Union. If these “Liberals” believe in a centralized form of government, than I agree that it will lead to corruption and a Stalinist state. However I personally believe in the complete and unconditional dismantalisation of the federal government. The only Government that is needed will be one that operates on the local level through direct democracy. State run economy such as found in the former Soviet Union and China, has been proven to be a failure and leading to tyranny, oppression, and economic collapse. The economy must be in the hands of the people, not in the hands of the state, nor a minority of shareholders.


In point number seven you truly display your barbaric backward thinking. You are perfectly willing today to pay your high taxes which goes to a prison system overcrowded with predominantly non violent criminals, however complain that the violent ones who are in the minority are costing you too many tax dollars. I am against the death penalty, however I think it should be ultimately up to the community that has been offended, to democratically decide the fate of the criminal.

As for non-violent offenders I believe that incarceration is not a way to solve the problem. It should be the job of any court to diagnose the problem and prescribe measures to rectify it, rather than punishment, which has been proven to lead to more problems.

Number eight is blatant sexism.

Number nine, displays an ignorance of how democracy works. “Liberals” are not against democracy in the United States, but rather would like to see democracy in the United States. Again, you know little of political science I gather, otherwise you would know that the US is a Republic not a democracy, and never was meant to be a democracy. Our system has been labeled “representative democracy” which perhaps misleads imbeciles.

What’s wrong with representative democracy? In any given election you have basically two candidates who have a chance to win. Votes are won by how many ads saturate the media and plaster the downtown area. The funds for these ad campaigns are obtained through making campaign promises to corporations and wealthy individuals. Small business owners, workers, etc, do not have the same access to the candidates which money affords and therefore are powerless to shape campaigns as those who have it do.

In theory, this form of democracy would work, and should, however corporate rule must be eliminated first.



Number Ten again you don't know much about democracy.
Democracy is a popular movement brought about by the people it’s not something you install. If the major motivation for the war on Iraq was to remove a dictatorship and install democracy than why start with Iraq? Don’t the people of Saudi Arabia and Egypt deserve to live in democracy also? And wouldn’t it be easier to negotiate with them considering we are their allies? The only nations that have ever been attacked by the United States that are democratic today are Germany and Japan. However there is an extremely long list of dictatorships we have supported and propped up after overthrowing other dictatorships.

And where is this Democracy the US is supposedly installing in Afghanistan?

Anyway, thanks for opening up and proving that peaccenicked is correct in calling Stalinists ignorant. Your post was a good example.

[Moskitto]

Egypt is strange, people think seem to talk about it like it's a democracy, even though in reality it's not,

[RedCeltic]

In regards to use of the moon as a garbage dump. I’m suprised this is coming from someone who claims to be more intelligent than everyone else on this board. I suppose you haven’t thought about 1) the cost of sending a rocket full of trash to the moon and 2) the amount of pollution a rocket would send out in to the atmosphere would be equivalent to driving 1000 leaking oil trucks to clean up a tipped over 5 gallon bucket of oil.


, you're saying something stupid right there that could easily be compared to the common lie (used by capitalists too) of "Most Muslims don't hate America"

Just wondering how many Muslims do you know because there are a fare number of Muslims here in New York and I have yet to meet one that wants to strap a bomb to his or her chest and blow up a supermarket. Most people live their lives and don’t worry about things they can’t change. This doesn’t mean they are happy.

[Moskitto]

my biology teacher is a muslim and she's allright, except she says steeroids instead of steroids, but she is spanish,

[RedCeltic]

Are you going to back up your argument Guest 65.176.232.209 ? Or are you going to prove yet again that Stalinists have nothing to say?

[antieverything]

I would like to point out that my commments are assuming that one takes this as a smart-ass tongue in cheek generalization.

Also, I don't think that these things apply to 'liberals' so much as the apply to a large number of stupid kids who are just trying to be as radical as possible without giving a thought to reality.

[Len]

When I was first beginning the process of becoming a communist i liked stalin. Then i read stuff and found out what an asshole he was. i was much more ignorant before.

[RedCeltic]

The following was sent to me in a PM by the simple minded creature that started this thread:




Sorry I could not reply sir genius, maybe you would be kind enough to post my response (without editing) for the whole community and then post your reply to THAT afterwards. They also have banned this new screen name so I cannot reply on that either. Here is the response.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from RedCeltic on 5:16 pm on Dec. 5, 2002
Most of this is simple name-calling and simple-minded reactionary thinking that suites non-thinking Stalinists well. the whole “Liberal” / “LIEberal” labeling of the entire left save for conservatives passing themselves off as communists ( Stalinists) marks you as an individual who knows very little about political science.


I’ll attempt to address what little thought you have in this post.

Your argument on point four is that Stalinists are high thinking people for they go against what is the accepted “kill a commie for mommy” and “red threat” propaganda that was ingrained in our society for the past fifty years. And therefore somehow “liberals” are ignorant, as they don’t see uncle Joe as a swell guy. However, Hitler is also a popular figure to demonize Is someone who worships Hitler closed minded or are the rest of the world that remember what he did? However, Hitler’s overused, let’s talk about some people in our own time shall we? What about followers of Jerry Fallwell, or Pat Robertson? The followers of these Christian Fundamentalist knot heads may very well have sat down and rationally thought out the pros and cons of being a Christian Fascist, I mean Fundamentalist. They also may be highly educated individuals. This still does not take away from the fact that they are ignorant of the damage their bad policies cause on humanity.

In number five you take the concept of Anti-Americanism and Un-Americanism and blow it out of proportion to the size that creates cartoonish figures out of anyone who questions the mighty superpower. I don’t think anyone can deny that the United States has done beneficial things for it’s citizens and it’s neighbors. I seriously doubt that anyone, including the two people you tarred and feathered in the beginning of your post, thinks that all the United States has done is bad. However the majority of people merely focus on the good points of the US and the System, and rarely focus on the bad points, which is what we try to discuss and change.

Does the system work? For some, yes. However there are many people who fall through the cracks and they will not be ignored!


In number six you attempt to display your extra sensory perception and read the minds of all these so-called “Liberals” you mention, who apparently will recreate the same mistakes as the Soviet Union. If these “Liberals” believe in a centralized form of government, than I agree that it will lead to corruption and a Stalinist state. However I personally believe in the complete and unconditional dismantalisation of the federal government. The only Government that is needed will be one that operates on the local level through direct democracy. State run economy such as found in the former Soviet Union and China, has been proven to be a failure and leading to tyranny, oppression, and economic collapse. The economy must be in the hands of the people, not in the hands of the state, nor a minority of shareholders.


In point number seven you truly display your barbaric backward thinking. You are perfectly willing today to pay your high taxes which goes to a prison system overcrowded with predominantly non violent criminals, however complain that the violent ones who are in the minority are costing you too many tax dollars. I am against the death penalty, however I think it should be ultimately up to the community that has been offended, to democratically decide the fate of the criminal.

As for non-violent offenders I believe that incarceration is not a way to solve the problem. It should be the job of any court to diagnose the problem and prescribe measures to rectify it, rather than punishment, which has been proven to lead to more problems.

Number eight is blatant sexism.

Number nine, displays an ignorance of how democracy works. “Liberals” are not against democracy in the United States, but rather would like to see democracy in the United States. Again, you know little of political science I gather, otherwise you would know that the US is a Republic not a democracy, and never was meant to be a democracy. Our system has been labeled “representative democracy” which perhaps misleads imbeciles.

What’s wrong with representative democracy? In any given election you have basically two candidates who have a chance to win. Votes are won by how many ads saturate the media and plaster the downtown area. The funds for these ad campaigns are obtained through making campaign promises to corporations and wealthy individuals. Small business owners, workers, etc, do not have the same access to the candidates which money affords and therefore are powerless to shape campaigns as those who have it do.

In theory, this form of democracy would work, and should, however corporate rule must be eliminated first.



Number Ten again you don't know much about democracy.
Democracy is a popular movement brought about by the people it’s not something you install. If the major motivation for the war on Iraq was to remove a dictatorship and install democracy than why start with Iraq? Don’t the people of Saudi Arabia and Egypt deserve to live in democracy also? And wouldn’t it be easier to negotiate with them considering we are their allies? The only nations that have ever been attacked by the United States that are democratic today are Germany and Japan. However there is an extremely long list of dictatorships we have supported and propped up after overthrowing other dictatorships.

And where is this Democracy the US is supposedly installing in Afghanistan?

Anyway, thanks for opening up and proving that peaccenicked is correct in calling Stalinists ignorant. Your post was a good example.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry, malte seems to have disabled guest posting even here, apparently malte is too much of a pansy to handle stalinists or cowardly liberals like you told him to disable it.

And something good came out of it all, I actually got another post from you that was more than 2 lines long.

Anyway...

Thank you for pointing out how 'simple minded' my post was, I was afraid that our great and intelligent liberal population here would not understand anything deeper than obvious flaws in them. I fail to understand how insulting you though shows how very little I know about political science, unless of course your comrades are all morons who don't even put effort into a 'simple minded' post like mine, they just make links to other sites or have one liners.

I don't think all stalinists are high thinking people, a good number of them genuinely pick stalinism to go against the grain, just as even more of you liberals pick liberalism to go against the grain. Someone who worships hitler is close minded if they don't have a real reason for it, you seem to misunderstand why I am stalinist and I am really tired of you liberals just assuming that I think stalin is a swell guy and I have undying loyalty to him. Actually I still haven't completley formulated my views and it bounced between liberalism and stalinism for a long long time but I'm beginning to form a composite of what I want and when I post my book here you'll see what it is. But either way, I think stalin's form of communism is the only way communism will ever be succesfully used without turning capitalist and becoming a disgusting mongrel of the right and left like gorbechev and krushchev created and china has. I am well aware of what stalinism means for the people and thats why I want it to be a temporary thing, I certainly wouldn't want to live in stalinism, I know other stalinists wouldn't either, but the entire reasoning for my stalinism is so that the people become so indoctrinated into the routine of, "If I break the law I will be executed" that when the stalinist society finally switches to utopian communism, they won't be 'human' enough to abuse and corrupt such a beautiful society.

The majority of people may focus on the good sides of the U.S but the majority of these socialists don't as you have admitted. The thing is, the majority of the socialists here won't admit the U.S has done ANYTHING good throughout the history of mankind, now they might change their minds quickly should they respond to this and say, "hey, that not troo" with their poor hippy liberal grammer but its still what most of them believe prior to being confronted with this. The little thing you added is so humanitarian it almost makes me sick, but there is no real point in responding to it.

The economy should never be placed in the hands of the people because sooner or later some of these small little communities will develop into economic super powers and the ones who have more oppertunity in their area are the ones who will excel, your communal socialism is a joke and makes favorites of communities. State socialism shares everything out to each community equally and oppression and tyranny have never been a big concern of mine as I am a stalinist, and the economic collapses of these societies were due to close minded leaders who refused to admit mistakes or alter things to fix them, stalin was guilty of this during the farm collective.

The community should not decide the fate of the criminal because that puts emotions in the place of reasoning and logic. In fact I'm for killing anyone unproductive, but if someone murders someone, but is very unlikley to do it again, I don't think removing a useful member of our society will do anyone, ANY good.

Ehhh, what do you know about sexism, you're a feminist.

The united states is not republic, rome was a republic, and they did not represent the people, greece did, and thusly WAS democracy. And the only democracy the majority of the socialists here know is the one in place in the united states right now. Thank you for educating them further and reminding me of what democracy really is. The thing is, most of these socialists like the U.S democracy, which is a load of shit designed to stop people like ralph nader being elected (thank god).
Your form of democracy is just a dream and unrealistic, even if this was possible you'd see plenty of political corruption as people bullied others into voting for certain people as the U.S had a major problem of back in the earlier 20th and late 19th century.

I realise the shit about the U.S propping up dictators, and personally I'm not for democracy in iraq, or egypt OR saudi arabia because A) they're doing fine with out it, and B) it will throw their nation into turmoil and I don't think the people there are honestly interested in democracy. The ONLY reason I am against the U.S propping up these dictators is because it was for their own benifit, I don't hold any hatred toward someone with strong enough will to cease power and hold it to their death. You get on the defensive as you would with a patriotic amerikan, and yet it seems you have not realised I hate amerika probably more than you do.

Afgahnistan doesn't need democracy.

Ok, good one, stalinists are ignorant *roll eyes*. You've managed to back up this claim by argueing with me. You're not a very gracious opponent I imagine in any sport.

[RedCeltic]

And this is my relpy,



cowardly liberals like you told him to disable it.

I am not cowardly, liberal nor would I ask Malte to disable anything. I have never asked him to ban a Stalinist.

Thank you for pointing out how 'simple minded' my post was

You don't have to thank me, it was self evident.

I don't think all stalinists are high thinking people,

At last something we agree on.

you liberals pick liberalism to go against the grain.

I'm an Anarcho-Socialist. My dad is a liberal, so how would being a liberal be going against the Grain? In the US, liberals are members of the Democrat party.

I am really tired of you liberals just assuming that I think stalin is a swell guy and I have undying loyalty to him.

And I'm really tired of you Stalinists calling me a Liberal. I'm not a liberal. You want people to treat you with respect? Stop shitting on everyone idiot. That's no way to debate with someone.


Actually I still haven't completley formulated my views and it bounced between liberalism and stalinism for a long long time but I'm beginning to form a composite of what I want and when I post my book here you'll see what it is. But either way, I think stalin's form of communism is the only way communism will ever be succesfully used without turning capitalist and becoming a disgusting mongrel of the right and left like gorbechev and krushchev created and china has. I am well aware of what stalinism means for the people and thats why I want it to be a temporary thing, I certainly wouldn't want to live in stalinism, I know other stalinists wouldn't either, but the entire reasoning for my stalinism is so that the people become so indoctrinated into the routine of, "If I break the law I will be executed" that when the stalinist society finally switches to utopian communism, they won't be 'human' enough to abuse and corrupt such a beautiful society.

In other words you don't know what you're talking about.

with their poor hippy liberal grammer

Do you seriously want me to go through your post and count how many spelling and grammar mistakes you have made in your posts? (Notice the A before the R in the end of Grammar).


The economy should never be placed in the hands of the people because sooner or later some of these small little communities will develop into economic super powers and the ones who have more oppertunity in their area are the ones who will excel, your communal socialism is a joke and makes favorites of communities. State socialism shares everything out to each community equally and oppression and tyranny have never been a big concern of mine as I am a stalinist, and the economic collapses of these societies were due to close minded leaders who refused to admit mistakes or alter things to fix them, stalin was guilty of this during the farm collective.

If equality is not a concern for you than you are not a socialist. My idea of setting up cooperatives is not a joke, but has been proven successful in countries like Spain, and some exist even to day in the United States. I don't believe in a monetary economy anyway when we get to that point of socialism.. ?I would say that state socialism is just beauracratic ineffieciency. in capitalism it is hard enough to try to get the little services they dole out.. I don't see how something that broad could effieciency give all serives to the people..

The community should not decide the fate of the criminal because that puts emotions in the place of reasoning and logic. In fact I'm for killing anyone unproductive, but if someone murders someone, but is very unlikley to do it again, I don't think removing a useful member of our society will do anyone, ANY good.

Wrong. In the United States today, the community is responsible for deciding if someone is guilty or not, it's called trial by jury. What I was talking about is the right of the Federal or State government to impose laws on the community.

Ehhh, what do you know about sexism, you're a feminist.

I know enough to tell you're a pig.

The united states is not republic, rome was a republic,

Eh, no, the United States is a Republic. Sorry mate but you are wrong, go back to school. The United States was founded as a republic. Ask any political science major or any person who grew up saying the pledge of allegence.

Also, the form of democracy I believe in would not lead to corruption as everyone would have an equal voice unlike the system we have today that supports that corperate corruption you seem to love so well. The only reason you hate Ralph Nader is because he attacks the corperate political machine that you support with your republican party.


it seems you have not realised I hate amerika probably more than you do.

I never said that I hate America. Not once. If I did hate America I would join the Republican Party as it is hell bent on leading this nation into destruction.

Oh by the way... learn some freekin' manners if you want me to continue this debate asshole.

[Lardlad95]

Wow guest you said absolutely nothing that describes my veiws except for teh anti excecution thing.

Also I never said Stalinist were ignorant...Ithink their ideas wont work.

Also I never said people in the US were unhappy, that doesn't make them happy either...they are content.

THE US' democracy doesn't work. It was set up orignially so regular people served their community and gracefully stepped down they were suppsoed to represent their people, politician wasn't supposed to be a career.

And George Washington warned against a two party system

[antieverything]

...I'm afraid I didn't follow that at all what with the numbers strewn hither and tither...






Actually I just wanted to say "what with the numbers strewn hither and tither"...

[RedCeltic]

that's what hapens sometimes when you transfer something from microsoft word to a PM. He told me not to edit it, so I didn't.

[Soso Koba]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 2:32 am on Dec. 9, 2002
And this is my relpy,



cowardly liberals like you told him to disable it.

I am not cowardly, liberal nor would I ask Malte to disable anything. I have never asked him to ban a Stalinist.

Thank you for pointing out how 'simple minded' my post was

You don't have to thank me, it was self evident.

I don't think all stalinists are high thinking people,

At last something we agree on.

you liberals pick liberalism to go against the grain.

I'm an Anarcho-Socialist. My dad is a liberal, so how would being a liberal be going against the Grain? In the US, liberals are members of the Democrat party.

I am really tired of you liberals just assuming that I think stalin is a swell guy and I have undying loyalty to him.

And I'm really tired of you Stalinists calling me a Liberal. I'm not a liberal. You want people to treat you with respect? Stop shitting on everyone idiot. That's no way to debate with someone.


Actually I still haven't completley formulated my views and it bounced between liberalism and stalinism for a long long time but I'm beginning to form a composite of what I want and when I post my book here you'll see what it is. But either way, I think stalin's form of communism is the only way communism will ever be succesfully used without turning capitalist and becoming a disgusting mongrel of the right and left like gorbechev and krushchev created and china has. I am well aware of what stalinism means for the people and thats why I want it to be a temporary thing, I certainly wouldn't want to live in stalinism, I know other stalinists wouldn't either, but the entire reasoning for my stalinism is so that the people become so indoctrinated into the routine of, "If I break the law I will be executed" that when the stalinist society finally switches to utopian communism, they won't be 'human' enough to abuse and corrupt such a beautiful society.

In other words you don't know what you're talking about.

with their poor hippy liberal grammer

Do you seriously want me to go through your post and count how many spelling and grammar mistakes you have made in your posts? (Notice the A before the R in the end of Grammar).


The economy should never be placed in the hands of the people because sooner or later some of these small little communities will develop into economic super powers and the ones who have more oppertunity in their area are the ones who will excel, your communal socialism is a joke and makes favorites of communities. State socialism shares everything out to each community equally and oppression and tyranny have never been a big concern of mine as I am a stalinist, and the economic collapses of these societies were due to close minded leaders who refused to admit mistakes or alter things to fix them, stalin was guilty of this during the farm collective.

If equality is not a concern for you than you are not a socialist. My idea of setting up cooperatives is not a joke, but has been proven successful in countries like Spain, and some exist even to day in the United States. I don't believe in a monetary economy anyway when we get to that point of socialism.. ?I would say that state socialism is just beauracratic ineffieciency. in capitalism it is hard enough to try to get the little services they dole out.. I don't see how something that broad could effieciency give all serives to the people..

The community should not decide the fate of the criminal because that puts emotions in the place of reasoning and logic. In fact I'm for killing anyone unproductive, but if someone murders someone, but is very unlikley to do it again, I don't think removing a useful member of our society will do anyone, ANY good.

Wrong. In the United States today, the community is responsible for deciding if someone is guilty or not, it's called trial by jury. What I was talking about is the right of the Federal or State government to impose laws on the community.

Ehhh, what do you know about sexism, you're a feminist.

I know enough to tell you're a pig.

The united states is not republic, rome was a republic,

Eh, no, the United States is a Republic. Sorry mate but you are wrong, go back to school. The United States was founded as a republic. Ask any political science major or any person who grew up saying the pledge of allegence.

Also, the form of democracy I believe in would not lead to corruption as everyone would have an equal voice unlike the system we have today that supports that corperate corruption you seem to love so well. The only reason you hate Ralph Nader is because he attacks the corperate political machine that you support with your republican party.


it seems you have not realised I hate amerika probably more than you do.

I never said that I hate America. Not once. If I did hate America I would join the Republican Party as it is hell bent on leading this nation into destruction.

Oh by the way... learn some freekin' manners if you want me to continue this debate asshole.




I've made another new screen name, probably soon to be banned if someone decides to inform malte but it'll do this post.

You claim not to be a liberal, what are you then? You views reflect many liberal tendancies, I haven't heard anything conservative out of you at all. Anarcho socialists are a oxymorons becuase socialism requires alot of goverment intervention, and I would've thought you'd have grown out of anarchy at your age too. I'm also tired of going into detail of why anarcho-socialists don't even really exist because its impossible and a contrast of ideas, its like me saying, "I'm a democratic stalinist," Just doesn't work.

If you are not a liberal you would have not have been so quick to reply or feel insulted by my post.

In other words you didn't really read what I wrote did you?

Again assuming that liberal was directed at you, and yet for a non-liberal you certainly relate to the label alot.

Wow.. this paragraph of yours here is full of errors. Heh, hippy grammar. Anyway I never said equality wasn't a concern of mine, in fact the entire reason why I consider your idea a joke is because it makes things UNEQUAL, it lets certain communities with better resources of something more able to help themselves out, and leaves others at a disadvantage. Your example of countries means nothing to me because both countries are capitalist.

Where you getting these things I say from, I never said anything about the united states, but anyway it appears here you agree with me but only half way and I don't care to debate something, we gotta take our little agreements, you know? So very rare.

Ok, fine, maybe I oversimplified the feminism thing. Firstly, I am against feminism on a whole as it seems to be little more than nationalism with gender. Secondly I am against extra education on history which is unimportant. And the reason I am so 'I don't give a rat's ass' about this is that I am against democracy in general, I don't care about the civil rights movement, I don't care about the woman's movement, I don't care about ANY group fighting for voting rights, female or not. Also if you want to learn about people fighting for democracy, we should force the stupid amerikan children to learn about the magna carta, and simon de montfont, the REAL founder of western democracy and the parlaiment. If the whole people fighting for the vote history wasn't focused entirely around women and minorites I'd be alot more for it, but this favoritism towards women is SEXIST in itself and you as a feminist are hypocrite and so are all your feminist friends.

Everyone having an equal voice does not necessarily mean it will lead to corruption, that seems unrelated to me, and the united states gives everyone a equal voice, just news corporations decide who will be heard.
I never said I loved corporate amerika nor did I suggest at it even. I don't get where the whole republican thing comes from and the reason I hate ralph nader is because he's a liberal. I hate all U.S politicians.

Why don't you hate amerika? Its the most capitalist country in the world! What is there to LIKE about amerika's economy and goverment?! I couldn't care less what you views on the republican party is, because they are worse than liberals.

You learn some manners! You started the mud slinging! I never mentioned your name in my initial post, you shouldn't have taken offense to something not directed to a 'anarcho-socialist' like you. I have no problem recieving insults just as I have no problem dishing them out. You do, so you be the peacemaker and stop. It'll test your liberal pacifism.

[RedCeltic]

You claim not to be a liberal, what are you then? You views reflect many liberal tendencies, I haven't heard anything conservative out of you at all.

Look... you are using the terms “conservative” and “liberal” wrong. In politics those are to capitalist ideologies.

Someone from the green party for example might be liberal (a word invented by the Republican Party to replace the word progressive) on some issues, however greens are greens and in no way are “liberals.” In the same token, Socialists are socialists and not liberals or conservatives. They may be “liberal” or “conservative” on issues.. but their ideology is not “liberal” or “conservative.”



Anarcho socialists are a oxymoron’s

wrong. Anarchism is a socialist idea. There have been many socialist ideologies over time, anarchy is one, Marxism is another. Anarchy doesn’t mean the absence of all government, but all hierarchy. Anarcho-Stalinism would be an oxymoron, however anarchy fits well with other Marxist ideologies that are not state based. I would suggest you read up on Daniel De Leon, Rosa Luxemburg to name a couple.

What is an oxymoron is Anarcho-Capitalism, because capitalism creates a hierarchy which is contradictory to Anarchy.


I would've thought you'd have grown out of anarchy at your age too.

How do you know my age? (Thine Stalin.) ;) I'm only 32.... Emma Goldman was much older than I am when she published most of her work.

its like me saying, "I'm a democratic Stalinist," Just doesn't work.

Stalinists aren’t against democracy, but rather the false democracy presented by the capitalist system. The “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” doesn’t mean totalitarianism, it means democratic rule of the majority.

If you are not a liberal you would have not have been so quick to reply or feel insulted by my post.

I didn’t say I was insulted, I just hate to see you make an ass out of yourself Thine Stalin. It isn’t productive. You love to throw around words that you have no concept of the meaning. “Conservative” does not mean “authoritarian” and “Liberal” “anti-authoritarian.”… Liberals want to institute progressive legislation within the current system. Granted that I was one of these people even on this website. However I believe that the current system needs to be drastically changed and decentralized.



I never said equality wasn't a concern of mine, in fact the entire reason why I consider your idea a joke is because it makes things UNEQUAL, it lets certain communities with better resources of something more able to help themselves out, and leaves others at a disadvantage. Your example of countries means nothing to me because both countries are capitalist.

It’s not a system with a focus on nationhood but rather a system with a focus on communities. It’s not a perfect system, no. However it is a system than can, and is being implemented as we speak under the very nose of capitalism. We are not talking of a massive revolution where one day we are living in a capitalist nation and the next day it’s all collectives and co-ops with no federal government. It’s a grass roots movement that takes over those communities that are most able first.


Ok, fine, maybe I oversimplified the feminism thing. Firstly, I am against feminism on a whole as it seems to be little more than nationalism with gender.

I believe Lenin was a big supporter of the Feminist movement, as most socialists are. I would agree that some feminists are short sighted and don’t see the full picture, which the same can be said about some environmentalists, or labor activists. However there is a large number of feminists that do see capitalism


Secondly I am against extra education on history which is unimportant.

History is the most important subject in school. Our children should know all the good/bad and ugly… what makes us who we are today. Algebra and trigonometry are unimportant! I can’t remember the last time I needed to figure out a square root.


I am against democracy in general

Yea, because we all truly long to live in a dictatorship. Lol… please stop with the jokes, your killing me. Maybe we should make Queen Elizabeth II an absolute monarch and she can rule over the whole English Speaking world. Would that be a suitable alternative?

If the whole people fighting for the vote history wasn't focused entirely around women and minorities I'd be alot more for it,

Yea those damn white males out there oppressing themselves again. Seriously, what the hell are you talking about Thine Stalin? Are you saying that we should only teach history that’s about you specifically? Did it ever occur to you that there are other people who live out there and go to school that may not be White or male, and perhaps would like to hear what others like them had to overcome?

It’s called appreciating what you have! People tend to take their rights and privileges for granted in the United States.


but this favoritism towards women is SEXIST in itself and you as a feminist are hypocrite and so are all your feminist friends.

boo hoo… I so hate being a male, women are such better people! Lol… give me a break. I’m against women or minorities being chosen for positions because of sex or gender. Just as women should not be discredited for a position because of gender, they should not be chosen for one because of it as well. I think men and women should have equal rights, however special accommodation should be made for reproduction. In other words, children shouldn’t have to be raised by day care because two incomes are required to live indoors. However that’s a problem which is a symptom of capitalism and can easily be eliminated with the elimination of wage slavery. Which is all the more reason that feminists should be against capitalism. (and why many are.)

Everyone having an equal voice does not necessarily mean it will lead to corruption, that seems unrelated to me, and the united states gives everyone a equal voice, just news corporations decide who will be heard.

In American politics, your voice is bought and paid for with cold hard cash. Everyone doesn’t really have an equal voice in America, that’s a myth. Your vote doesn’t really matter and the politicians really don’t care what you have to say unless it comes with a hefty campaign contribution.

I don't get where the whole republican thing comes from

You continue to call people “liberals” so you must be a conservative, and conservatives are in the republican party. You use a republican invented word (Liberal) you get called a republican.

the reason I hate Ralph nader is because he's a liberal. I hate all U.S politicians.

Ralph Nader, really isn’t a politician, he’s a consumer abdicate. And he’s not a liberal, he ran with the Green Party against the liberals.

Why don't you hate amerika? Its the most capitalist country in the world! What is there to LIKE about amerika's economy and goverment?! I couldn't care less what you views on the republican party is, because they are worse than liberals.

I don’t agree with the idea of nations, nor federal governments of elected bodies. I have stopped thinking of “America” as a Nation a long time ago, because America the nation has misrepresented me in the world sphere and caused people to hate me who don’t personally know me.

When I talk about “America” I talk about the body of people who populate this land and everything in it. I’d like to see “America” a better place, detached from the nation that deserved to be burned in flames.

You learn some manners! You started the mud slinging! I never mentioned your name in my initial post

You assumed we are all liberals, which I took offence to. The only one I would call a Liberal on this board is perhaps American Kid who I think is a Liberal Democrat from New England.

It'll test your liberal pacifism.

and I’m not a pacifist. I’m against needless deaths.

[canikickit]

So, Red Celtic, how about that weather? Why are you attempting communication with this strange child?

[RedCeltic]

Yea, I was wondering that myself.

Hey... Nice tree!! I think it's about to fall over though. :)

[dopediana]

THE FACTS AS I SEE THEM

1. most muslims do hate america, though if they said it in front of any americans, they know they'd get their heads bitten off, so they don't.

2. many people disagree with war but are too scared to admit it, just the same way as some unstable atheists claim agnosticism to appease fundamentalist peers.

3. leaders will naturally succumb to less than desirable thoughts. even if one started out with pure intentions, with the innocence of a child, the realization of the amazing power they hold would eventually kick in and then things go bad.

4. a good number of DEMOCRATS i know are no better than republicans. some are totally unconscious concerning the current events and say "well, i think that now that we're in this war we have to back up our government." you see, democrats and republicans aren't at opposite ends of the spectrum. it's all a facade to keep up the 2-party monopoly over the elections. same as it was in the early 20th century, it is now. damn poseurs.




you know, screw all this tension. you know what i really want? i want to march on the green along with a huge gathering of revolutionaries on the behalf of all oppressed peoples of the world, gloriously singing "do you hear the people sing" from "les mis".

i honestly have to get away from the musicals...