Anarchy

[Periodic]

Third question, and hopefully my last so i can stop bugging everyone! :lol:

I have found a few questions towards Anachism, and are wondering how these would be handled (This goes, for the Final Communist Stage as well) -

1. Murder. (Denying the person goods, most likely will not stop them from murdering, as some people, such as racists, kill for unjust or stupid reasons.)

2. Theft. (How would you get the goods, back?)

3. Normal Issues. (Such as, neighbor trespasses in your yard)

4. Speeding (Cars speeding, wrecks would most likely double)

Thanks, in advance. :)

[OI OI OI]

All these issues can be reduced to one. Breaking the law( or rules call it whatever you want).
So I will respond to all of them together.

First of all anarchism has different material conditions than capitalism. Under anarchism there will be no poverty because the means of production will belong to the workers so there would be no exploitation etc . So crime will drop dramaticaly. Because in order to steal you must be poor etc.
As about other issues not connected to theft there will be monitored by peoples' militias which will be democraticaly elected and reccalable by the people themselves and it will probably be a rotating task(everyone will end up being in that position) .
But workers militias will not have the same role as the police in a capitalist state. In a capitalist state the police has a dual role. It is a body of armed men opressing one class over the other and of course it is a body which is not democratical elected that fights against "crime" .
Under anarchism it will have only the second role since classes will not exist and that in a democrtic and rotatable manner, so someone could not call it an authoritarian body

I hope this helped you. Since I am not an anarchist I am not an expert so I hope some anarchist comrades in the board can help you better than me.
And ask as much as you want. I like answering. It makes me feel smart:D

[F9]

It is a good thing you ask and especially that you ask about different things.If we didnt want questions we propably wont have learning subforum so feel free to continue making questions on things you want to know or you want to talk about!;)

I agree with OI OI OI in some matters like in a fair system with freedom no poorness criminality will almost vanish especially stealing because to steal it means you are in need to do it.However there will be some people who may have some problems psychological etc those would be taken care be doctors however there not going to be like psychiatric hospital like now who are like prison but it would be a place to try to make those people pass their problems and rejoin finally the community!
I dont really support the idea of OI having a peoples' militias,if something goes wrong it will be "judged"(wrong word but i cant find other sorry) by whole community not some specific persons!
For the speeding matter i have to be true its the first time i even think about it,but why do you think that wrecks are going double?We(as Anarchists) we would have the concies so in an area who is dangerous we goe a little slowly,you cant drive with 100 in an area were childdren play.Even that they might not be restrictions writed down people will have in their mind what they should do to avoid such happenings that would get in danger there lifes and especially others.So wrecks wont get doubled!

Hope i help,and i hope you continue making questions too!Everyone made questions at the start,some people may havent the net to find a plenty of answers in their time now that there is this ability we sould help each other!

Fuserg9:star:

[xAtlasx]

The idea of people's militias is a very good concept that has been implemented before with positive results. (think revolutionary Spain, 1936-1939) The militia members would most likely be democratically elected with the militia leadership being passed in a cycle through members of the commune, syndicate etc... The militias themselves would only be responsible for apprehending suspects while the community as a whole would act as the "judge" and decide what steps need to be taken after a crime is committed...

But speeding is something different... never really though about it till now...:confused:

[welshboy]

1- Murder. This is a really difficult one as there are many factors that come into play i.e was it revenge, was it because of the persons sexuality or ethnicity. Was the person who committed the murder mentally unbalanced?
If it was a killing over revenge, like 'he raped my sister' that would be strange case but it would be up to the community to decide how to deal with it. And for its failing in allowing a situation like this to occur in the first place. If it was a racist or homophobic murder then they get taken out to a nearby field and shot, simple.

2 - Theft. If all is held in common what is there to steal. Most theft is because of real or perceived need. Either, I need to steal to sell on so that I can eat or I need to steal because I really need that Xbox game. In a communist society where all our real needs are met and we have the means to sate our wants and desires then theft disappears.

3 - Trespass? Why on earth would you mind your neighbour wandering through your yard?In what I see a communist society being then such bourgeouis concepts as the private yard will cease to be. :laugh:
I can't believe I just typed that and actually meant it. Really though whilst your house will be your own I don't see the need for private land I mean what are you going to do with your yard that means you wouldn't want your neighbour having access to it?

4-Speeding. Why do people speed? Because they are late for work or because of work. With the work of society spread more easily we would have a much more relaxed pace of life. I also believe that private car usage would be a thing of the past and a much more efficient means of public transport would be in place. I mean the private motor car is one of the worst disasters to have ever happened to humanity. The number of deaths from cars is astronomical as well as the pollution poisoning our lungs and the generally anti-social nature of the things. An efficient network of busses, trains and trams would be a far more efficient and sustainable way to organise transport and would be common sense in a communist society.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Third question, and hopefully my last so i can stop bugging everyone! :lol:

I have found a few questions towards Anachism, and are wondering how these would be handled (This goes, for the Final Communist Stage as well) -

1. Murder. (Denying the person goods, most likely will not stop them from murdering, as some people, such as racists, kill for unjust or stupid reasons.)

2. Theft. (How would you get the goods, back?)

3. Normal Issues. (Such as, neighbor trespasses in your yard)

4. Speeding (Cars speeding, wrecks would most likely double)

Thanks, in advance. :)

1. Well there will be crimes of passion, including murder. And for that we will have a tribunal system to determine guilt and innocence. Punishments are likely to differ, focusing more on repaying ones debt to the community and the victim. Death penalty will probably be abolished as will long prison sentences and large prisons. If the person is a sociopath then we'll have to restrain them though there aren't too many of them.

2. There's no motive for theft really.

3. You talk it over with your neighbor. If you have a real problem then you go and get a neutral person to arbitrate the dispute, probably from a pool of folks that the community deems as suitable arbiters.

4. Um traffic regulations? We're going to redevelop settlements to put things within walking or mass transit distance. So driving won't be as prevalent anyway.

[Periodic]

3 - Trespass? Why on earth would you mind your neighbour wandering through your yard?In what I see a communist society being then such bourgeouis concepts as the private yard will cease to be. :laugh:
I can't believe I just typed that and actually meant it. Really though whilst your house will be your own I don't see the need for private land I mean what are you going to do with your yard that means you wouldn't want your neighbour having access to it?

I understand everyone, besides this one, seeing as though i have had interactions with a idiotic neighbor most of my life. (Unlike most people sadly)

As a short story, i have a swimming pool in our backyard, and we found out one night by a fellow neighbor that he hopped our fence and swam in our pool, while drunk. Seeing as though he also cut our grass for us the week later (down to the dirt) i don't see how talking with this "moron" could be very helpful as the post above says, we had to have police sort it out. Funny, now that i think about it, but not funny at the time. :rolleyes:

How would someone this idiotic be handled under a Anarchist society?

[Annie K.]

Maybe i'm not really what you would call an anarchist... but i really think that the dissolution of all powers, the etymologic (hm?) anarchy, is an utopy much more exciting than the system of direct democracy presented just above.
I won't begin with "anarchy is not democracy, anarchy is this, anarchy is that". But I just can't stand the perspective of being forced to be part of a militia or a jury (even more if this jury isn't apprehended as such, like a "judging community") to continue the revolution. Maybe i'm not an anarchist, but for sure i'm not a trotskyst.



For murder and speed, you have to change your point of view. Where life has no value in the dominant system of social organization, death, sometimes, has no price. In the current capitalist system, such cases are common, and can't be dealt with with the dominant system of values. They need the intervention of control institutions, like justice or familial solidarity, to convert death in something acceptable, in a legal category like crime.
In anarchy, where life is de facto at the center of social organization, death doesn't need a price. First, because the perpetuation of the society doesn't need to control whatever escapes the market, and second, because death itself is acceptable. Death is another contradiction of the capitalism, because it can't always be reduced to an economic process (on the contrary, life can). But by the power of the dialectical materialism, any biological process can be socially accepted, and death is just one of them.
Anarchy is the historical period where every social process is led by mortals, by humans who don't consider themselves partially immortal, humans without souls or property.

The repression of murder and other crimes is a problem of a capitalist society : no justice, no crimes. There are many ways for a human to die. Why should we try to totally suppress that one ? The total number of deaths will stay the same even if murder disappear.
Same goes for speed and others dangerous pleasures like deliberate intoxications.
In fact, the overthrow of death current meaning implies the disappearing of many social problems.


If the person is a sociopath

Was the person who committed the murder mentally unbalanced?

those people pass their problems and rejoin finally the communityThe question of the "mental disorders" come back so often in the discussions about anarchy, I can't understand why there is so few of us who radically reconsider the relation between normality and illness.
I have just one thing to say : aus der Krankheit eine Waffe machen !
or less clearly : turn illness into a weapon !

Le camarade de la section des Piques, in his famous "Français, encore un effort si vous voulez etre republicains" (Yet another effort, frenchmen, if you would become republicans), wrote something about theft and murder. Everyone here have to read it. It is really efficient in order to understand our need to escape the moral values of the capitalist society.
Here in english (I don't know if this translation is worth anything...), at the end of the fifth dialogue (there's a rule against posting links ? that sucks):

[www] sin.org/tales/Marquis_de_Sade--Philosophy_in_the_Bedroom.pdf

Here in french :

fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ais%2C_encore_un_effort_si_vous_voulez_% C3%AAtre_r%C3%A9publicains



Oh, and it seems to me quite normal to let the neighbours use a swimming pool. Why is there a fence already ?

[Periodic]

Why is there a fence already ?

Im not going to go deeply into our neighbor, so let's just keep it at were not very good friends, and im not positively sure what you are trying to say here.

[welshboy]

Annie K you're right. You are not an Anarchist nor are you a Communist.
Back to the trespass thing. To put it simply in an anarchist society everything would be totally restructured including the way that we behave towards one another. One would hope that your neighbour would have more respect for the area around your house as it is something that is there for his enjoyment as well as yours and to damage it would be to damage his own property as everything is held in common.

[OI OI OI]

You are not an Anarchist nor are you a Communist.
Back to the trespass thing. To put it simply in an anarchist society everything would be totally restructured including the way that we behave towards one another. One would hope that your neighbour would have more respect for the area around your house as it is something that is there for his enjoyment as well as yours and to damage it would be to damage his own property as everything is held in common.

And all that just after the revolution?

PS I am aware about the transitional period debate going around here. It seems weird to me though that the overwhelming majority of the members of this board who are anarchist or at least claim so, believe in a transitional period although fromwhat I have read from the classics of anarchism this period was never mentioned, plus all the Anarchists I have met (not lumpen anarchists) have never mentioned about a transitional period on our debates. Seems weird...

[Annie K.]

Annie K you're right.Surely not, since I don't know (and don't care).

OI OI OI >
I think the transitionnal period isn't mentionned because it is not separated from the revolution. The entire humanity can't be in anarchy tomorrow, and the period of transition is unavoidable. But there is no need of transitionnal period of social stability between the overthrow of the capitalist state and the overthrow of all powers.

Periodic >
I'm trying to say that your neighbor did not any damage (at least it seems likely from what you said), and that in order to make sure he don't hop the fence anymore, removing it is the best solution. There is no need to wait for common property : removing the symbols of the restrictions that come with private property is enough to take most reasons for physically or symbolically damaging your property away from the people who live nearby.

[Raúl Duke]

Third question, and hopefully my last so i can stop bugging everyone! :lol:

I have found a few questions towards Anachism, and are wondering how these would be handled (This goes, for the Final Communist Stage as well) -

1. Murder. (Denying the person goods, most likely will not stop them from murdering, as some people, such as racists, kill for unjust or stupid reasons.)

2. Theft. (How would you get the goods, back?)

3. Normal Issues. (Such as, neighbor trespasses in your yard)

4. Speeding (Cars speeding, wrecks would most likely double)

Thanks, in advance. :)

One thing you would have to keep in mind is that an anarchist/communist society would have lot's of "debating" among the different communities on how to handle issues and such. Some communities might do one thing while others try something else. Overtime, the concepts that failed would be voted out while those with more success would be popularized across all the anarchist/communist areas.

Here's my answers (but not really arguments for my answers) though (my "2-cents" on the issues.).
1) I heard a few people argue for execution, and this I heard was practice in anarchist Spain (the rationale was that prisons and keeping people in them was not "the anarchist thing to do." In the anarchist tradition there probably a few authors that were against prisons, notably Kropotkin I think. A more material reason would be that the personnal, especially if full-time, would develop a "fascistic" mind-set caused by the conditions in the prison. Even the prisoners might be psychologically effected.). We could always try exile...
2)It's theorized that there would be less thefts , way less, in a anarchist/communist society. IF there are such things, although probably most likely caused by kleptomania, one could just acquire a new replacement (at no cost, no money in communism) or just get it back (some system/organization would be created probably to handle this). In some "serious" cases maybe a form of house-arrest/probation could be used.
3)Some of these issues could be mediated by both parties, later through the whole community, etc. Maybe a "rotating-duty" (so it's not a job/profession; just a task rotated among members of the commune probably mostly in a voluntary basis) militia can handle your complaint as well. Again, in serious cases house-arrest/probation could be used.
4)Probation/House-arrest; or (also in the other cases where I mentioned this form of punishment) a different form of dealing with that in our time now we don't know of.

See, one point, to some, of an anarchist/communist society is a lack of prisons; among many other points/characteristics/etc.

Many of the crimes and issues would be handle by a "trial" but it would be quite different from what we have now.

There might be a few other anarchists/leftists who would/might go into much bigger detail.


And all that just after the revolution?

PS I am aware about the transitional period debate going around here. It seems weird to me though that the overwhelming majority of the members of this board who are anarchist or at least claim so, believe in a transitional period although fromwhat I have read from the classics of anarchism this period was never mentioned, plus all the Anarchists I have met (not lumpen anarchists) have never mentioned about a transitional period on our debates. Seems weird...

They probably mean the steady yet sure transition from a socialist economy (money economy) to a communist (moneyless economy) after the revolution when the infrastructure is repaired and the means of production are being tweaked to function for communism.

[bcbm]

And all that just after the revolution?

There is no "after the revolution," it is a constant, evolving process.