Ideology

[Mersault]

Obviously many people on this forum hold as true various different ideologies. This is the same with many things either stated or interpreted. Many people believe they know what truth is or know what the meaning of something is.

I'm interested to know, from those who believe in ideology or claim to understand the meaning of that ideology as truth, what that meaning actually is and where it derives from?

[Dean]

Obviously many people on this forum hold as true various different ideologies. This is the same with many things either stated or interpreted. Many people believe they know what truth is or know what the meaning of something is.

I'm interested to know, from those who believe in ideology or claim to understand the meaning of that ideology as truth, what that meaning actually is and where it derives from?

Do you mean the individual specific ideology or ideology in general?

If you mean personal ideology, then I think it is neither true nor false. My impression that ideology can be boiled down to weltanshauung in the Freudian sense, and therefore is neither true nor flase inherently. It is merely a specific, subjective understanding of the world.

If you mean the term... well the question woul dbe too vague in that sense.

[Hyacinth]

I think you need to be more clear about what exactly you mean by “ideology”, but if we take it as referring to political ideology, where a political ideology consists of a certain political end (i.e. how a society should be structured) combined with certain proscribed means (i.e. the best way to attain this end), we can try to answer your question.

Unless you’re a moral realist one cannot make a case that the end proscribed by an ideology is capable of being true or false. The end of a political ideology, the way that ideology envisions a society should be structured, is a reflection of the interests of those who put forth the ideology, it is in that sense subjective.

As for the means suggested by the ideology, these two aren’t capable of being true or false, at most they can be useful or useless.

I don’t know what it would mean to say that an ideology is true.

[Hyacinth]

As an addendum, an ideology can make reference to the world and make predictions. For instance, if you consider Marxism, as an ideology, it uses historical materialism in its analysis of society. Historical materialism does make truth apt assertions, namely, that the consciousness of people is determined by their social being and not vice versa (roughly put). This is either true or false. So I suppose if you count historical materialism as a part of Marxist ideology (where we’re still treating ideology here in the above defined political sense), then yes, an ideology can be true or false, inasmuch as its descriptive claims are true or false.

[Dean]

As an addendum, an ideology can make reference to the world and make predictions. For instance, if you consider Marxism, as an ideology, it uses historical materialism in its analysis of society. Historical materialism does make truth apt assertions, namely, that the consciousness of people is determined by their social being and not vice versa (roughly put). This is either true or false. So I suppose if you count historical materialism as a part of Marxist ideology (where we’re still treating ideology here in the above defined political sense), then yes, an ideology can be true or false, inasmuch as its descriptive claims are true or false.

This is where the argument gets really murky. What is the difference between historical materialism and the moralist approach that all other ideology has in your definition?

What makes politics a distinct part of ideology? For that matter, what is political? Is belief in global warming political? Is the same true for string theory or genetic theory?

I don't think that politics is really distinct from other forms of social ideas. It seems to me to describe a vague controvery that revolves around social power. The term is very similar to religion, in that it seems like a very clear term on the face, but attempts to make a concise, universal definition for the term always fall short.

I don't think that ideology is sperable from less controversial, more personal ideas. Doesn't disbelief in evolution rely on upbringing, supernatural belief structures and rationality? But is this really political in the narrow sense? This is why I think of ideology as the all-encompasing "weltanschauung," or "world-view." It really refers to a lot more than just the theories people have about social organization and power.

[Hyacinth]

Perhaps, but I specifically restricted myself to answering the OP in respect to political ideology precisely because ideology in general is much more encompassing, and by extension much more vague.

But, I’m not sure using ‘ideology’ in the sense of world-view captures the concept, since where then is the distinction between, for instance, philosophy and ideology (provided that there really is one)? Empiricism, for instance, is an all-encompassing world view, but we hardly ever refer to it as an ideology. The term, for whatever reason, seems to be reserved for world-views that have something or other to do with society, as opposed to, say, nature. We don’t talk about scientific or philosophical theories that don’t pertain to social organization as ‘ideological’.

[black magick hustla]

Obviously many people on this forum hold as true various different ideologies. This is the same with many things either stated or interpreted. Many people believe they know what truth is or know what the meaning of something is.

I'm interested to know, from those who believe in ideology or claim to understand the meaning of that ideology as truth, what that meaning actually is and where it derives from?


the only marxist ideological "positions" that can fit in the true/false dichonomy are the ones of scientific character - historical materialism, class analysis - etc.

however political goals are not true/false because the principles behind them are entirely subjective. there arent moral truths because that would imply there is a god or there is some platonic form of good.

[Mersault]

Is it safe to assume that the three posters in this thread subscribe to an ideology?

[KC]

Nobody subscribes to an ideology. Everyone has an ideology, including you.

[Luís Henrique]

Nobody subscribes to an ideology. Everyone has an ideology, including you.

More probably, an ideology has you...

Luís Henrique

[Mersault]

Nobody subscribes to an ideology. Everyone has an ideology, including you.

I suppose subscribes is a rather tenious word to use in that context, I agree. As for myself having an ideology it would be necessary to understand what an ideology is. By saying that "everyone" has one you imply that an ideology is not overarching but rather personal, which is essentially a post-structuralist argument. I'm not sure I agree with that though.

I'm interested to know the meaning of revolutionary ideology. Would anyone like to explain it?

[Decolonize The Left]

I'm interested to know the meaning of revolutionary ideology. Would anyone like to explain it?

I'll venture an attempt, though it ought to be prefaced with the statement that this is purely my attempt at a general answer - certainly others will disagree and hopefully clarify.

A "revolutionary ideology" is a way of relating to the world which is based around fundamental components:
- The social world is not as it ought to be and therefore needs changing.
- This change ought to come about through revolutionary means (as opposed to reform).

In terms of the members of this forum, I feel as though it would be acceptable to say that most here disagree with the capitalist economic mode of production, as well as many of our current cultural values (consumerism, chauvinism, heterosexism, etc..). Of course each will feel strongly about some, and less so about others, but in general I feel as though this is an adequate representation.

I understand that this is very vague, but so was the original question. Furthermore, it would be foolish of me to attempt to clarify further, as I could speak for none other than myself.

- August