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Chapter 24
1st July 2008, 00:00
Okay, so unless you live in or have been to the capital of Illinois, Springfield, where I live, you have no idea the emphasis on which the city puts on the 16th president of the U.S., Abraham Lincoln. This is 'cause we take credit for living in our town during his most important years. As soon as we start learning history in elementary school we're taught about the man, the Civil War, all that. Most of my American History has been about that as a central topic (note: I'm only in 10th grade, but I'm sure when I begin American History again in 11th we'll start back to the Civil War and the life of Lincoln).
This town is NUTS about Lincoln, and part of me feels that although he was not entirely altruistic (no one, I think, has been, is, or will be), he was the U.S.'s best preisdent (which doesn't say a lot there but eh), and even if the Emancipation Proclamation was not entirely valid I still hold this belief that Lincoln was concerned for the welfare of slaves. I may be attacked for this, but what else is a person going to believe when they've lived their entire life being taught that this man was basically - well - GOD.
That's why I need members of the board to give me a decent, non-biased view on Lincoln. I need proper sources. I know there was a thread on this in the past, the word "bourgeois" was thrown around quite liberally. And you can describe as such, fine - but a source showing such would be preferred rather than just suggesting the notion that since every U.S. president was bourgeois/imperialist, so was Lincoln.
What I'm looking for it a proper socialist, whether Marxist or anarchist or otherwise, analysis on Abraham Lincoln.

Chapter 24
1st July 2008, 00:05
Also, for anyone who was wondering, I have read http://www.marxists.org/history/international/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

Mersault
1st July 2008, 00:49
What is a socialist analysis?

Chapter 24
1st July 2008, 00:55
What is a socialist analysis?

A socialist's critique of Lincoln, whether they be Marxist, anarchist, etc.

Random Precision
1st July 2008, 00:59
As far as a Marxist analysis, you probably won't be able to do better than Marx himself, hm? Here is a page containing the newspaper articles Marx wrote on the Civil War, and his correspondence with Engels on the subject: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1861/us-civil-war/index.htm

Dean
1st July 2008, 01:35
Lincoln was in fact very racist. It is telling that Lee freed his slaves before Grant.

Chapter 24
1st July 2008, 01:43
But how was he "very racist"?

Sendo
1st July 2008, 02:31
when he said whites should occupy the "Superior position" between the races, his condemnation of intermarriage. The Civil War strategically accomplished much; for example it prolonged racism by overcoming class tensions in Dixie where more and more whites were being forced into wage slavery that was becoming less and less differentiated from that of our their black "colleagues." In the few decades that followed, before Dems and Repubs consolidated power, many workers' groups and farmers' groups surmounted racism. Lincoln was a huge part of forming the duopoly/monopoly which has dominated national politics and since the 1930s dominated almost every level of local government, too.

BIG BROTHER
1st July 2008, 03:54
Actually I have read in "Lies my history teacher told me" that Lincoln was indeed racist, but he later changed his opinion.

Invader Zim
1st July 2008, 10:35
Of course he was racist, all the champions of the slaves were; indeed everybody was.

Poum_1936
4th July 2008, 03:27
http://www.marxist.com/marxism-and-the-united-states/part-2.htm

Its only a small snippet from the book. But it might help alittle.

trivas7
4th July 2008, 03:42
Actually I have read in "Lies my history teacher told me" that Lincoln was indeed racist, but he later changed his opinion.
LIncoln remained racist. He later believed that Black should be forcibly sent back to Africa.

chimx
4th July 2008, 10:21
Lincoln was in fact very racist.

Everybody was racist or sexist or anti-semetic etc. during the 19th century. I don't think it is wise to judge historical figures by contemporary values.

Luís Henrique
4th July 2008, 17:42
Everybody was racist or sexist or anti-semetic etc. during the 19th century. I don't think it is wise to judge historical figures by contemporary values.

That. And Lincoln was also "bourgeois" (in what comes to his values, ideology, etc, not that he necessarily owned means of production). But... in the 1860's, in North America, bourgeois ideology was a progressive ideology. God did not create the world in six days, ready with all the animal species and social classes.

Luís Henrique