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View Full Version : Why Socialism can only fail. - It will never succeed----NEVE



MaxB
23rd November 2002, 16:16
"Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism with practical, imperfect capitalism which allows them to claim that socialism is superior to capitalism. If perfection really were an available option, the choice of economic and political systems would be irrelevant. In a world with perfect beings and infinite abundance, any economic or political system--socialism, capitalism, fascism, or communism--would work perfectly. However, the choice of economic and political institutions is crucial in an imperfect universe with imperfect beings and limited resources. In a world of scarcity it is essential for an economic system to be based on a clear incentive structure to promote economic efficiency. The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available. "

Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery. In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives. In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter! Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don't matter! In a radio debate several months ago with a Marxist professor from the University of Minnesota, I pointed out the obvious failures of socialism around the world in Cuba, Eastern Europe, and China. At the time of our debate, Haitian refugees were risking their lives trying to get to Florida in homemade boats. Why was it, I asked him, that people were fleeing Haiti and traveling almost 500 miles by ocean to get to the "evil capitalist empire" when they were only 50 miles from the "workers' paradise" of Cuba? The Marxist admitted that many "socialist" countries around the world were failing. However, according to him, the reason for failure is not that socialism is deficient, but that the socialist economies are not practicing "pure" socialism. The perfect version of socialism would work; it is just the imperfect socialism that doesn't work.

Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism with practical, imperfect capitalism which allows them to claim that socialism is superior to capitalism. If perfection really were an available option, the choice of economic and political systems would be irrelevant. In a world with perfect beings and infinite abundance, any economic or political system--socialism, capitalism, fascism, or communism--would work perfectly. However, the choice of economic and political institutions is crucial in an imperfect universe with imperfect beings and limited resources. In a world of scarcity it is essential for an economic system to be based on a clear incentive structure to promote economic efficiency. The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available.

The strength of capitalism can be attributed to an incentive structure based upon the three Ps: (1) prices determined by market forces, (2) a profit-and-loss system of accounting and (3) private property rights. The failure of socialism can be traced to its neglect of these three incentive-enhancing components. Prices The price system in a market economy guides economic activity so flawlessly that most people don't appreciate its importance. Market prices transmit information about relative scarcity and then efficiently coordinate economic activity. The economic content of prices provides incentives that promote economic efficiency. For example, when the OPEC cartel restricted the supply of oil in the 1970s, oil prices rose dramatically. The higher prices for oil and gasoline transmitted valuable information to both buyers and sellers. Consumers received a strong, clear message about the scarcity of oil by the higher prices at the pump and were forced to change their behavior dramatically. People reacted to the scarcity by driving less, carpooling more, taking public transportation, and buying smaller cars. Producers reacted to the higher price by increasing their efforts at exploration for more oil. In addition, higher oil prices gave producers an incentive to explore and develop alternative fuel and energy sources. The information transmitted by higher oil prices provided the appropriate incentive structure to both buyers and sellers. Buyers increased their effort to conserve a now more precious resource and sellers increased their effort to find more of this now scarcer resource.

The only alternative to a market price is a controlled or fixed price which always transmits misleading information about relative scarcity. Inappropriate behavior results from a controlled price because false information has been transmitted by an artificial, non-market price. Look at what happened during the 1970s when U.S. gas prices were controlled. Long lines developed at service stations all over the country because the price for gasoline was kept artificially low by government fiat. The full impact of scarcity was not accurately conveyed. As Milton Friedman pointed out at the time, we could have eliminated the lines at the pump in one day by allowing the price to rise to clear the market. From our experience with price controls on gasoline and the long lines at the pump and general inconvenience, we get an insight into what happens under socialism where every price in the economy is controlled. The collapse of socialism is due in part to the chaos and inefficiency that result from artificial prices. The information content of a controlled price is always distorted. This in turn distorts the incentives mechanism of prices under socialism. Administered prices are always either too high or too low, which then creates constant shortages and surpluses. Market prices are the only way to transmit information that will create the incentives to ensure economic efficiency.

Profits and Losses Socialism also collapsed because of its failure to operate under a competitive, profit-and-loss system of accounting. A profit system is an effective monitoring mechanism which continually evaluates the economic performance of every business enterprise. The firms that are the most efficient and most successful at serving the public interest are rewarded with profits. Firms that operate inefficiently and fail to serve the public interest are penalized with losses. By rewarding success and penalizing failure, the profit system provides a strong disciplinary mechanism which continually redirects resources away from weak, failing, and inefficient firms toward those firms which are the most efficient and successful at serving the public. A competitive profit system ensures a constant reoptimization of resources and moves the economy toward greater levels of efficiency. Unsuccessful firms cannot escape the strong discipline of the marketplace under a profit/loss system. Competition forces companies to serve the public interest or suffer the consequences.

Under central planning, there is no profit-and-loss system of accounting to accurately measure the success or failure of various programs. Without profits, there is no way to discipline firms that fail to serve the public interest and no way to reward firms that do. There is no efficient way to determine which programs should be expanded and which ones should be contracted or terminated. Without competition, centrally planned economies do not have an effective incentive structure to coordinate economic activity. Without incentives the results are a spiraling cycle of poverty and misery. Instead of continually reallocating resources towards greater efficiency, socialism falls into a vortex of inefficiency and failure.

Private Property Rights A third fatal defect of socialism is its blatant disregard for the role of private property rights in creating incentives that foster economic growth and development. The failure of socialism around the world is a "tragedy of commons" on a global scale. The "tragedy of the commons" refers to the British experience of the sixteenth century when certain grazing lands were communally owned by villages and were made available for public use. The land was quickly overgrazed and eventually became worthless as villagers exploited the communally owned resource. When assets are publicly owned, there are no incentives in place to encourage wise stewardship. While private property creates incentives for conservation and the responsible use of property, public property encourages irresponsibility and waste. If everyone owns an asset, people act as if no one owns it. And when no one owns it, no one really takes care of it. Public ownership encourages neglect and mismanagement. Since socialism, by definition, is a system marked by the "common ownership of the means of production," the failure of socialism is a "tragedy of the commons" on a national scale. Much of the economic stagnation of socialism can be traced to the failure to establish and promote private property rights. As Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto remarked, you can travel in rural communities around the world and you will hear dogs barking, because even dogs understand property rights. It is only statist governments that have failed to understand property rights. Socialist countries are just now starting to recognize the importance of private property as they privatize assets and property in Eastern Europe.

Incentives Matter. Without the incentives of market prices, profit-and-loss accounting, and well-defined property rights, socialist economies stagnate and wither. The economic atrophy that occurs under socialism is a direct consequence of its neglect of economic incentives. No bounty of natural resources can ever compensate a country for its lack of an efficient system of incentives. Russia, for example, is one of the world's wealthiest countries in terms of natural resources; it has some of the world's largest reserves of oil, natural gas, diamonds, and gold. Its valuable farm land, lakes, rivers, and streams stretch across a land area that encompasses 11 time zones. Yet Russia remains poor. Natural resources are helpful, but the ultimate resources of any country are the unlimited resources of its people--human resources. By their failure to foster, promote, and nurture the potential of their people through incentive-enhancing institutions, centrally planned economies deprive the human spirit of full development. Socialism fails because it kills and destroys the human spirit--just ask the people leaving Cuba in homemade rafts and boats.

As the former centrally planned economies move toward free markets, capitalism, and democracy, they look to the United States for guidance and support during the transition. With an unparalleled 250-year tradition of open markets and limited government, the United States is uniquely qualified to be the guiding light in the worldwide transition to freedom and liberty. We have an obligation to continue to provide a framework of free markets and democracy for the global transition to freedom. Our responsibility to the rest of the world is to continue to fight the seductiveness of statism around the world and here at home. The seductive nature of statism continues to tempt and lure us into the Barmecidal illusion that the government can create wealth. The temptress of socialism is constantly luring us with the offer: "give up a little of your freedom and I will give you a little more security." As the experience of this century has demonstrated, the bargain is tempting but never pays off. We end up losing both our freedom and our security. Programs like socialized medicine, welfare, social security, and minimum wage laws will continue to entice us because on the surface they appear to be expedient and beneficial. Those programs, like all socialist programs, will fail in the long run regardless of initial appearances. These programs are part of the Big Lie of socialism because they ignore the important role of incentives.

Socialism will remain a constant temptation. We must be vigilant in our fight against socialism not only around the globe but also here in the United States. The failure of socialism inspired a worldwide renaissance of freedom and liberty. For the first time in the history of the world, the day is coming very soon when a majority of the people in the world will live in free societies or societies rapidly moving towards freedom. Capitalism will play a major role in the global revival of liberty and prosperity because it nurtures the human spirit, inspires human creativity, and promotes the spirit of enterprise. By providing a powerful system of incentives that promote thrift, hard work, and efficiency, capitalism creates wealth.

The main difference between capitalism and socialism is this: Capitalism works.

redstar2000
23rd November 2002, 16:44
<yawn> MaxB, I think the former employees of Enron, Worldcom, et.al., need to read your pep-talk more than we do. THEY're the ones who need to be reminded of how great the capitalist system is, how efficient and full of incentives it is, blah, blah, blah. They'll especially appreciate the part about socialist "ponzi" schemes--given their personal experiences.

Just don't tell them that stuff in person, Max...if you don't want to be hanged from the nearest streetlight.

MaxB
23rd November 2002, 17:39
You can't blame a whole system that has been a success
for the ineptitude and corruption of a couple of its members. As opposed to Socialism, where the WHOLE system is inefficient, corrupt, and flawed.
By the way, what are u doing on the internet---that's a CAPITALIST invention (as most of everything else).

Ymir
23rd November 2002, 18:08
And you are an example of CAPITALIST idiocy. (like most of everything you say)

Pete
23rd November 2002, 18:24
"You can't blame a whole system that has been a success for the ineptitude and corruption of a couple of its members."

Really now MaxB, do you truly believe that there is only a few members of the Capitalist group that are corrupt. Look around. How many people must be enslaved for you to live the way you do. Honestly Max. The corruption and hypocracy of Capitalism is so blatantly obvious that all the mainstream news sources have to cover it up by saying how things that are different are bad. Try using your own words. They are more natural and also stronger then the ones you plagarize from somewhere. Quotes are for supporting your arguement, not providing the beef of it. Quantity over Quality, just like a capitalist.

Lardlad95
23rd November 2002, 18:54
Your claim that Socialsm will always fail is stupid.

The Soviet union collapsed-Socialism must not work

thats like saying this

"oh look that guy tripped while running, running must not work"

Systems can't fail, countries can

Jaha
23rd November 2002, 19:47
i hate it when capitalists critisize communism. capitalism took centuries to bring about after feudalism. hell, there are still parts of the world with monarchies and feudalist systems. you go to them and say "capitalism is a step up above feudalism." then when they dissagree, you *****. and when we come and say "communism is better than capitalism." then you dissagree, we *****.

dont you see? you want to find perfection, but you dont realize that the road is long and we havent reached the end yet. capitalists are the revolutionaries of the past, but a new revolution is in order.

you say communism doesnt work. well, the feudalists said capitalism wouldnt work. who would invest their hard work into something as stupid as a coin? a worthless coin?

now, who would invest all their hard work into their neighbor? into strangers? into the commune entirely?

revolt with us. the future is coming. you are in the past. centuries from now there may be something better than communism, but why wait? why take second best when best is nearby?

Kehoe
23rd November 2002, 19:50
Why socialism can only fail ... why? Because of that one undeniable element peculiar to the human species ... egotistical individualism which finds expression through greed and arrogance.Unbridled self-interest concentrates initiative into the hands of the select few who manipulate this common tendency for advancement of personal enrichment.Religion sets the stage for the perpetuation of this insidious ideology of individualism with the concept of personal salvation ... whereas,it is my belief that he who strives only for his own salvation is damned already,for self-promotion will stink in the nostrils of an equal man.Individualism with its emphasis on personal freedom and rights over that of society can only percipitate social instability.Ruthless people will always manipulate,molest and destroy.just as an unchained vicious dog will surely attack ... but we re all well aware of capitalism are we not?!The wage-scale is the cause of disruptive behavior throughput the labor structure of a capitalist economy.Therefore,in a socialist economy measures must be taken to intoduce a standardized wage by which to implement a more just exchange in terms of labor-management relations by removing material incentives and replacing them with the idea of basic social obligations.How can it be reckoned as just to reward or punish workers based on traits and characteristics bestowed by nature?Everything employed as a means of separation must be destroyed.Monetary enrichment is the motivation factor for advanced education,legal,political and medical careers;however,with the equalization of wage-earning and socialization in various fields the influence of self-interest would be removed thus opening the veins of capitalism and leaving its lifeless corpse on the barren floor of the past.In a socialist economy purchasing power would be adjusted and compensated according to local geographic conditions rather than the idea of competition and individualistic promotion,with production and distribution being based on organization and calculation of commodities determined by necessity rather than the motivation for profit. - Karo

Stormin Norman
24th November 2002, 05:56
Did you write this, MaxB?

El Brujo
24th November 2002, 06:07
You obviously don't know shit about Marxist ideology so your in no position to criticize it. Marx and Engels clearly stated that that socialism could only come after industrialization to work properly. Russia, China, Cuba and all other third world socialist country's were obviously NOT industrialized when the revolutions took place. Its impossible to jump from feudalism to socialism. Western powers and some Asian country's are ready for socialism but not third world countries. The problem is, imperialist country's don't allow third world countries to properly industrialize because they are being sucked dry of resources and the population is more concerned with surviving than getting a proper education. In other words, socialism hasn't worked properly because CAPITALISM dosen't allow it to. The corporate lackeys are more concerned with feeding their fat faces with wealth than improving the state of the world.

(Edited by El Brujo at 2:09 pm on Nov. 24, 2002)

suffianr
24th November 2002, 06:39
"Did you write this, MaxB?"

Sure he did. And I'm J.D. Salinger. Hello. :)

redstar2000
24th November 2002, 15:29
"By the way, what are you doing on the internet? That's a capitalist invention (like most everything else)."

Um, Max, I don't know how to break this to you, but inventions are products of human imagination, not social systems. No system ever invented anything, not even itself.

The internet was actually invented by employees of the United States Department of Defense and their academic subcontractors. It gives me MUCH pleasure to know that every time I use their invention, I contribute, in a small way, to the destruction of their social order.

Or were you suggesting that I should kiss the ground beneath their feet in GRATITUDE???

Pete
24th November 2002, 20:58
"By the way, what are you doing on the internet? That's a capitalist invention (like most everything else)."

The internet was theorized by M. McCallum (shit that isnt right) the founder of the M. Mc(whatever) Centre for Information Stuides At The University Of Toronto in the 1970's. You know the guy from Alberta that said 'the medium is the message' and he truly hated how capitalism used mass media. So in truth, the theory of Internet came from an anti-capitalist (atleast for the use of mass media) mind.

Moskitto
24th November 2002, 21:02
well, MaxB should be more against the internet than anyone else if the internet was invented by a US government department, remember acording to MaxB's own ideology (Objectivism) all government departments are evil.

common sense
25th November 2002, 22:46
I agree that countries can fail, which is not due to the system. But can communism work with real people? In my opinion communism is a system built for the gods, which is a good and a bad thing. In the one sense, it allows for true freedom, economic freedom from the bonds of the social class, the middle class, the product of the Renaissance. But on the other hand, it leaves the door open for those "unenlightened" ones to create tyranny and fascism. In other words, a perfect system will only work with perfect people. Unfortunately, those countries that tried socialism or communism have failed. Who knows what the future will bring?