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View Full Version : Why Socialism Fails - Only and idiot would expect otherwise



MaxB
22nd November 2002, 23:36
All around the world, it's becoming a known fact, that the socialist experiment is a failure. People in countries such as North Korea, Cuba, and oh yes right here in Canada, believe the reason that it doesn't work, is because the right people aren't running the government. You will notice here in Canada, that if we change, from Jean Chretien to Paul Martin, things will be less "dictatorial."

Other reasons they give for failure, are not that socialism is deficient, but that the socialist economies are not practicing "pure" socialism. The perfect version of socialism or communism would work; it is just the imperfect socialism that doesn't work. Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism, with practical imperfect capitalism, which allows them to claim that socialism is far superior, to capitalism. You will notice that this propaganda, rears itself sublimely on the CBC.
Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery. Both socialism and communism, were responsible for the mass murders, of close to a 100 million people, in the last century. That didn't include armed forces personnel and innocent people, who suffered and died in those conflicts, at that time.

Socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success, that gives government intervention, its pernicious seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery. For example in Canada, in the early seventies, there was prosperity as the Trudeau government, financed it's way to economic disparity.

Our economic fundamentals are forever weakening, as we see our currency slowly deteriorate. That's because the global free market forces work against socialism, and eventually expose the flaws. It's common knowledge here in Canada, that the socialist, are constantly blaming the Americans, for those same economic flaws. The same thing happened in Nazi Germany, only Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's faltering economy.

The reason collectivism a failure in the long run, is because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world, can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives, which is why in reality, communists just aren't community minded.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives, to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role, or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy, without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism, to direct economic activity.

By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature. and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don't matter, which is why in some countries, you either had to work, or you were shot.

The leaders of early twentieth century communism knew, that if every one didn't pull their weight, the system would collapse. Later on in Russia for example, as the economy there was falling apart, incentives were being worked into the system in order to keep it going. As early as the sixties, forty years after communism was instilled, the Russian people finally realized, that the promises were nothing, but a hollow pig in a poke.

During the troubles in Haiti, refugees were risking their lives, trying to get to Florida in homemade boats. Why was it then, that people were fleeing Haiti, and traveling almost 500 miles by ocean to get to the "evil capitalist empire," when they were only 50 miles from the "workers' paradise" of Cuba? They must have known something, that the Canadian left didn't. .

The temptress of socialism, is constantly luring us with the offer: "give up a little of your freedom, and I will give you a little more security." As the experience of this century has demonstrated, the bargain is tempting, but never pays off. We end up losing both our freedom and our security.

When Trudeau took the helm, Canada's standard of living was second overall in the world. Now we have an economy, where there is high unemployment, rampant poverty, long waiting lines at hospitals, and we have bureaucratic thieves that are choking us with high taxes.

Programs like socialized medicine, welfare, social security, and minimum wage laws will continue to entice us, because on the surface they appear to be expedient and beneficial. Those programs, like all socialist programs, fail in the long run regardless of initial appearances. ("Just throw some in some more money, that'll fix 'em.") These programs are part of the Big Lie of socialism, because they ignore the important role of incentives, which is why they fail.

Around the world, capitalism plays a major role in the global revival of liberty and prosperity, because it nurtures the human spirit, inspires human creativity, and promotes the spirit of free enterprise. By providing a powerful system of incentives, that promote thrift, hard work, and efficiency, capitalism creates wealth.

Thus if Canada keeps on its present course of socialism, along with it's slowly deteriorating economy, it shouldn't be too long, for this country to end up in another deep recession.

According to the Fraser Institute, the World report on economic freedom, has Canada slipping from 8th place in the year 2000, to 13th overall in 2001. The way we are choked with taxes, if interest rates were to rapidly increase, we would have our backs to the wall. Only then, will the Liberals get dumped.

bluerev002
23rd November 2002, 04:06
fook dude, if your'e giong to copy and paste something, copy and paste it shorter. I mean, most of us already see that this is kinda old. all you cappies ever say is, why socialsm and communism fails. atleast get it to teh point, quick, easy, your done. or is taht too much copy and pasting for you?

suffianr
23rd November 2002, 04:47
Comrades, there is no further point in posting replies to MaxB's topics.

This is effectively my last post to MaxB. I really can't be bothered any more. I hope you choke on your own spam, your freaking troll.

Kehoe
23rd November 2002, 05:09
Comrade suffianr said well ... ignore this capitalist agitator ... for once you take notice of a dog it barks all the more. - Karo

buteo
23rd November 2002, 05:13
Id say that the enticing is done on the part of the Capitalist who preaches freedom but little does the immigrant know that the United States wears a friendly mask but hides a monster inside.

Sure you have freedom in the U.S. ... the freedom to buy, consume, and put the environment to shit.

Capitalism, to me, always puts more importance on profits than in the long-term survival of the Earth and its people.

I don't think anybody here, especially in this forum, will buy anything you have to say

redstar2000
23rd November 2002, 17:12
Ohmygod! 13TH PLACE!!! The shame! The humiliation! MaxB, how do you even have the NERVE to DARE to speak to us, you 13th Place LOSER!!!

Go hide your disgusting performance in the closet NOW!

:D

Jaha
23rd November 2002, 20:07
"Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism, with practical imperfect capitalism, which allows them to claim that socialism is far superior, to capitalism"

well, MaxB, thats because perfect capitalism is near impossible. how could a government stay out of the economy? how could there be free trade when certain dangers must be watched for? every capitalism that has ever worked has used a wide variety of socialist ideals.

Kehoe
23rd November 2002, 21:10
capitalism = me ... socialism = we ... ... ... any questions? ... as for individual freedom which democratic capitalism promotes as being an element of socialism ... Bullshit!This is merely a capitalist tactic by which to pacify the left with an exaggerated tenet of socialist thought that in reality has no place in true socialism but is the product of capitalism itself,being the supporting foundation of their ideology in that self-interest is the driving-force of materialistic greed.Freedom which depends on the enslavement of a portion of the public is not true freedom,liberty declared through poverty isnt worth shit, and a man who can only stand on the backs of others should be made to fall.In this liberalistic society men are encouraged to embrace gold and piss down the backs of their fellow man,to admire the cunning of financial and political opportunists who serve as examples of individual success while promoting liberal idealism in the form of irresponsible behavior in the social realm,for in this all sense of personal obligation to ones fellow man is negated. - Karo

Dr. Rosenpenis
24th November 2002, 00:21
Max B, you say that Communists only compare theoretical Communism and actual Capitalism, well why don't you tell us what is so good about Capitalism instead of telling us what is bad about socialism. Oh, maybe you can't find anything like that to copy and paste. Thats because there is no good argument telling why Capilatlism is good. Only bad arguments telling why Communism is bad. Like suffianr said, "I hope you choke on your own spam, your freaking troll."

Vladimir
24th November 2002, 01:16
OOOOhhh hes good. Max B, i dont know at all. Seems the same as all the rest anyway. Ban him

IrishGuevara

Kehoe
24th November 2002, 03:31
Whats wrong with a little comic relief? ... to argue with a fool is to partake of his foolishness and were the wise to witness this confrontation they would consider you both as being equals.With all this cutting and pasting and constant posting a person must ask oneself ... is MaxB trying to convince the members or himself?Were MaxB so certain of capitalism as the better system then he would have no need to visit a socialist site. - Karo

(Edited by Kehoe at 3:38 am on Nov. 24, 2002)

Pete
24th November 2002, 23:37
I gota agree with Kehoe. If capitalism is so good why is he here trying to get converts like the jesuits in huronia. Actually bad allusion. But the point is basically the same.

He disses Trudeau, the greatest prime minister so far, but it was Trudeau that put Canada to first on the UN 'best places to live' list with his social programs and the such. His legacy will live longer then Capitalism for sure.

fightthepower
5th December 2002, 18:13
Exactly. Canada (which i sometimes consider half-socialist) is ranked 1st on the UN's list of countries based on quality of life. The US, on the other hand, one of the most capitalist countries in the world, is ranked, what, fourth, fifth, sixth, lower? give me a break. Funny, though, how first we had Trudeau, then we had the conserviatives, then Trudeau again, then MORE conservatives ( Stupid Brian Mullroony and his stupid free trade), then the Liberals. It's been 20 years since Trudeau was in office, if anything, Canada's "failing" economy is a result of capitalist instigation. Particularily from the conservatives.

Pete
5th December 2002, 21:21
Vive la Canadienne forte et libre. Vive la Canadienne socialiste. Vive la Canadienne non conservateur. Fichu Mulroney et les Etas Unis!!

Som
5th December 2002, 21:37
Quote: from fightthepower on 6:13 pm on Dec. 5, 2002
Exactly. Canada (which i sometimes consider half-socialist) is ranked 1st on the UN's list of countries based on quality of life. The US, on the other hand, one of the most capitalist countries in the world, is ranked, what, fourth, fifth, sixth, lower?

3rd, Canada is third.

1st is norway, 2nd is Sweden, Canada is third.

The U.S. is 6th.

Moskitto
5th December 2002, 21:57
top ten places to live (UN servey published June 2000)
1. Canada
2. Norway
3. USA
4. Australia
5. Iceland
6. Sweden
7. Belgium
8. Holland
9. Japan
10. UK

antieverything
10th December 2002, 02:56
Wow...makes me proud to be a US Canadian dual citizen...instead of being third place like the rest of Americans, I'm in 1.5th place!!!!

YAY...

Moskitto
10th December 2002, 22:47
I'm a UK/Canadian duel citizen,

antieverything
10th December 2002, 22:53
Neato.

HankMorgan
12th December 2002, 06:32
1. People are smart. They always act in their best interest.
2. Innocent until proven guilty.
3. No person has the right to the fruits of another's labor.

HankMorgan
15th December 2002, 09:05
Now that I've got the hang of posting, here's another.

Originally, I wanted to make a post pointing out the flaw of socialism and show how it hasn't ever worked but I see MaxB has preceded me. For a short while it's fun to see the goateed berets squawk "ban him" like a flock of park pigeons escaping a terrier. In the long run it really is kind of boring.

That being said, I still lie awake in the early AM and wonder if there isn't a better economic system than free market capitalism, if there isn't way a poor man's daughter can have milk before a rich man's kitten. Is there a system where no one starves yet no one involuntarily has his daily efforts hijacked to benefit another?

The only way I've ever figured out how to do that is to have a society so rich that even the poor man can afford milk.

Exploited Class
15th December 2002, 13:15
Quote: from HankMorgan on 9:05 am on Dec. 15, 2002
Is there a system where no one starves yet no one involuntarily has his daily efforts hijacked to benefit another?


If the worse thing that comes out of communism is somebody's daily efforts get hijacked to benefit another then bring it on.

If I no longer have to worry about retirement, housing and rent, heat, food costs, health costs, 40 hour work weeks, unemployment, university costs, transportation, getting sick and not being able to work, investments, stock market, taxes, budgets, people going hungry, rich controlling news, news for profit and ratings, skewed news, good old boy clubs, campaign finance, THEN BRING IT ON! If your one hang up is worrying about no one involuntarily has his daily efforts hijacked to benefit another, then I tell you what I bet we can overcome that. If we can spend so much energy on trying to guess what this economy is going to do next, try to figure out what or where our money is going to do. If we are going to spend all that time and effort into buying and trading of commodities and stocks and bonds, I tell you what. Then I bet you we can figure out a good way to solve that problem of yours.

I'll take disadvantages of communism over capitalism's advantages any day of the week.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!
15th December 2002, 17:21
Ban Max_B he is fuckin racist (his topic that muslims are idiots or somethin) and without us (leftists) you would still have no rights and ur nation would be ruled by the Brittish queen. Start showing respect u captalist pig.

HankMorgan
15th December 2002, 23:35
exploitedclass, I visited your web pages. Those are the kinds of things that I think about at night, my friend.

It is clear you are an intelligent and you care deeply about the exploitation of others. Your name, your domain name and your che-lives signature all rail against the exploitation of mankind.

I posed the question of there being a system where no body starves and no one has their daily efforts involuntarily hijacked to benefit another. You responded "If the worse thing that comes out of communism is somebody's daily efforts get hijacked to benefit another then bring it on.". I asked if there exists a system where no one is exploited and someone with the name exploitedclass responds by saying if the worst thing that comes out of communism is someone gets exploited then bring it on.

My Dad had to tell me twice on a few occasions so I'm kind of slow. Is there something deeper and more subtle to your response or were you just in a rush to sound your high note of "I'll take disadvantages of communism over capitalism's advantages any day of the week"?

Sol
16th December 2002, 05:03
I have a question about your quote Hawk, the one about no one having rights to another man's labor.

How the hell can this be a basic principle for your philosophy when that philosophy is capitalism? That's what capitalists STRIVE for. They want to increase the size of their bussiness, hiring others to work for them, while they make greater and greater profit. And please think of something better than "they worked for that business". In some cases it's true. In most cases people get rich off being ruthless and opportunistic.

HankMorgan
17th December 2002, 06:20
With Christmas coming up I decided to raise some cash
by selling my Intel 286 powered computer. I paid $3000 dollars for it and I could use the $3000 now for Christmas. I couldn't get anyone to buy it and my friend
finally explained that it has no value. No value? How could it have no value when I paid $3000 for it and it's just like new. Some thief has stolen it's value.

A garment maker in Sweden sews flannel shirts and makes enough money to raise a family in a modest home
with a luxury or two such as a television. Another garment maker in Indonesia sews the same flannel shirts but can't afford anything more than the daily rice.
Maybe it was a thief, perhaps a dirty capitalist, that stole the Indonesian garment maker's living.

It wasn't a thief that took the value of my 286 powered
computer. It was the market. A good or service is worth
exactly what a buyer will pay. Even the wages of someone who sews flannel shirts in Indonesia. If you don't believe it, let me sell you my 286. It's just like new.

A baseball shortstop can make $30 million per year playing a game. At the same time a garment maker
in Indonesia barely scrapes by even working endless hours. I don't like it but I don't see how to fix it without making a hash of everything.

Sal, my signature isn't a quote. Those are my words. No one has the right to the fruits of another's labor, be it rice paid to someone who sews flannel shirts or $30 million paid to a baseball player.