Log in

View Full Version : Should Lenin be burried?



OI OI OI
30th June 2008, 05:01
On June 4, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev emerged from well-deserved obscurity to demand that the embalmed body of the Russian revolutionary leader

Vladimir Lenin should be moved from its mausoleum in Red Square and given a standard burial. Lenin's body has been on public display in a glass case since his death in

1924 and this issue has always been a source of controversy. The original decision to embalm Lenin's body was taken by Stalin and the leading clique against the

wishes of Lenin's widow, Krupskaya, who protested: "Vladimir Ilyich was against icons all his life and now they have turned him into an icon." The real reason for this

step was to boost the authority and prestige of Stalin and his faction, who, while trampling the genuine ideas of Lenin underfoot, assiduously cultivated the slogan:

"Stalin is Lenin today." The genuine Bolshevik-Leninists were opposed to this practice. However, today the situation is rather different. Trotsky pointed out that what

is important is not just what is said, but who says it and for what purpose. Lenin led the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution to found the first workers' state in the world. Stalin

destroyed Lenin's regime of workers' democracy and installed a monstrous bureaucratic totalitarian edifice on the bones of the Bolshevik Party. However, the

nationalized property relations established by October survived and enabled the USSR to achieve remarkable results. In the end the Stalinist bureaucracy destroyed

the last remnants of the Soviet workers' state, turning themselves into private capitalists. It was Gorbachev himself who presided over the break-up of the USSR. Now

Gorbachev, 77, says: "My view is [that] we should not be occupied right now with grave-digging. But we will necessarily come to a time when the mausoleum will

have lost its meaning and we will bury [Lenin], give him up to the earth as his family had wanted. I think the time will come." Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in

1991, there have been many attempts to have the tomb removed from Red Square. The first post-Soviet leader, Boris Yeltsin, spoke in favour of removing the

mausoleum and the Orthodox Church has called for the former leader to be buried. But the reason for this has nothing to de with religion. The bourgeois

counterrevolutionaries are afraid that one day the ideas of Lenin and Trotsky will come back to haunt them. That is why they are always demanding the removal of

Lenin's tomb from Red Square. However, all these attempts met were unpopular and met with resistance. In the end, Yeltsin avoided taking a decision. Vladimir Putin

also fudged the issue, saying it was emotive and hard to tackle. His successor, President Dmitry Medvedev, has not yet made his position clear. Despite everything,

the Communists are the second-biggest political party. The working class looks back with nostalgia to the days of the nationalized planned economy when there was

full employment, good education and health services. Lenin's tomb is still a reminder of the Russian Revolution, a symbol and a rallying point. That is why we cannot

lend our voice to the chorus of reactionaries demanding its removal. Lenin's tomb should stay where it is. More importantly, Lenin's ideas and programme must be

revived and will be revived as the only way forward for the workers of Russia.

dirtycommiebastard
30th June 2008, 05:05
I think the Communist Party of Russia are just a bunch of old Nostalgists.

But I do think Lenin should be buried, but not by the bourgeois state.

Only a workers-controlled ceremony will do for such an occasion because the integrity of such an event can only be undermined if it is carried out by the bourgeoisie.

mykittyhasaboner
30th June 2008, 05:09
did Lenin ever say what he wanted done to his body?

Bright Banana Beard
30th June 2008, 05:13
did Lenin ever say what he wanted done to his body?

He wanted to be buried, not being some idol figure.

OI OI OI
30th June 2008, 05:17
did Lenin ever say what he wanted done to his body?

He did not want to get burried but the Stalinist bureaucracy in order to solidify their power made the mausoleum in order to deceive the people that they were his continuation.Of course Lenin did want to be buried. But under capitalism as I said in the OP he should not for reasons I explained above

Lector Malibu
30th June 2008, 05:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ

And leave him be..

TC
30th June 2008, 06:06
Lenin's body doesn't belong to Lenin anymore since the person 'Lenin' seized to exist in an ethically/socially relevant way when his brain cells died...so his wishes are immaterial. (I mean...Communists don't think that you should be allowed to direct other types of physical inheritance so why corpses?) Surely personal rights to bodily autonomy begin with meaningful consciousness ( i.e. sometime after birth, before childhood) and end with permanent loss of consciousness (irreversible cardiac arrest or brain death whichever comes first).

I don't think Lenin should be buried because its obvious that bury Lenin is meant to symbolically bury Communism the same way taking down statues of him and removing soviet emblems from buildings is. Were he buried initially it wouldn't matter, but since he was put on display in an open tomb in a manner suggesting that the state recognized his unique contributions, to reverse that decision is in fact to degrade those contributions which is precisely what the Russian counter-revolutionaries wish to do. You do not for instance ever hear the suggestion that Mao or Ho Chi Minh should be buried even though they wanted to be when alive, because their respective governments do not want to devalue them they want to elevate them.

My undergraduate university has the semi-preserved corpse of its founder displayed in its main hallway...its creepy.

Joe Hill's Ghost
30th June 2008, 06:15
Lol quite a prestigious university you're going to. Jeremy Bentham's pride, joy and final resting place!

Charliesoo
30th June 2008, 06:34
Lenin's body doesn't belong to Lenin anymore since the person 'Lenin' seized to exist in an ethically/socially relevant way when his brain cells died...so his wishes are immaterial. (I mean...Communists don't think that you should be allowed to direct other types of physical inheritance so why corpses?) Surely personal rights to bodily autonomy begin with meaningful consciousness ( i.e. sometime after birth, before childhood) and end with permanent loss of consciousness (irreversible cardiac arrest or brain death whichever comes first).

I don't think Lenin should be buried because its obvious that bury Lenin is meant to symbolically bury Communism the same way taking down statues of him and removing soviet emblems from buildings is. Were he buried initially it wouldn't matter, but since he was put on display in an open tomb in a manner suggesting that the state recognized his unique contributions, to reverse that decision is in fact to degrade those contributions which is precisely what the Russian counter-revolutionaries wish to do. You do not for instance ever hear the suggestion that Mao or Ho Chi Minh should be buried even though they wanted to be when alive, because their respective governments do not want to devalue them they want to elevate them.

My undergraduate university has the semi-preserved corpse of its founder displayed in its main hallway...its creepy.

Very good point made there.

I must agree with you there. Burying Lenin would be done by the bourgeois state to demoralize Communism.

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures
30th June 2008, 23:51
we should bring him back, Frankenstein style!

Dean
1st July 2008, 00:23
3A CCCP made a good point about what it means to bury Lenin. The act itself would not be so bad, but the fact that it would indicate a destruction of communism is bad indeed.

Mersault
1st July 2008, 00:48
Along with Ho Chi Minh, they should have strings tied to their feet and hands and then used in a human sized puppet show rendition of Samuel Beckett's, Waiting For Godot.

Juan Rivera
1st July 2008, 01:09
Yes, let the man enjoy his final rest. I don't like this public corpse viewing. Lenin and all other revolutionaries of 1917 live on by the meaning of their actions, not the cold flesh, laid in some mausoleum so they become a tourist attraction.

Vanguard1917
1st July 2008, 01:27
I don't like this public corpse viewing. Lenin and all other revolutionaries of 1917 live on by the meaning of their actions, not the cold flesh, laid in some mausoleum so they become a tourist attraction.

Well put. I agree fully.

BIG BROTHER
1st July 2008, 03:51
Yes, burying comrade Lenin might be somewhat or very demoralizing, but keeping him on exposition, as if he was a carnival attraction isn't making communism come back or anything like that.

I say let him be buried with the honor he deserves.