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ÑóẊîöʼn
29th June 2008, 21:38
The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/)


A topflight science brainbox at Cambridge University has weighed into the ever-louder and more unruly climate/energy debate with several things that so far have been mostly lacking: hard numbers, willingness to upset all sides, and an attempt to see whether the various agendas put forward would actually stack up. Professor David J C MacKay of the Cambridge University Department of Physics holds a PhD in computation from Cal Tech and a starred first in Physics, so we can take it that he knows his numbers. And, as he points out, numbers are typically lacking in current discussion around carbon emissions and energy use.

MacKay tells The Reg that he was first drawn into this field by the constant suggestion — from the Beeb, parts of the government etc — that we can seriously impact our personal energy consumption by doing such things as turning our TVs off standby or unplugging our mobile-phone chargers.
Anyone with even a slight grasp of energy units should know that this is madness. Skipping one bath saves a much energy as leaving your TV off standby for over six months. People who wash regularly, wear clean clothes, consume hot food or drink, use powered transport of any kind and live in warm houses have no need to worry about the energy they use to power their electronics; it’s insignificant compared to the other things.
Most of us don’t see basic hygiene, decent food and warm houses as sinful luxuries, but as things we can reasonably expect to have. This means that society as a whole needs a lot of energy, which led MacKay to consider how this might realistically be supplied in a low-carbon fashion. He’s coming at the issues from a green/ecological viewpoint, but climate-change sceptics who are nonetheless concerned about Blighty becoming dependent on Russian gas and Saudi oil — as the North Sea starts to play out — will also find his analysis interesting. Eliminating carbon largely equates to eliminating gas and oil use.


...

MacKay also gets into solar, both the thermal and electric kinds. Thermal has some potential for home energy, it seems, and is a good idea. (Funnily enough, almost all home microgeneration kit in the UK right now is solar-thermal water heating, so he might just be right here.) But solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity is viciously expensive in the cloudy UK, and just sticking panels on roofs won’t do much — it seldom yields any large proportion of the energy used in the building it’s on top of. You need to cover a big portion of the country in cells.
All in all, according to MacKay, if you like solar it probably makes more sense to put the panels in North Africa and bring the power to the UK over efficient high-voltage DC lines.
As an engineering matter the desert-solar idea is quite feasible — not very different in scale from piping in gas across continents and beneath seas, as people already do. Those fretful about buying power from Russia or the more unsavoury Gulf oil producers might be equally unhappy to buy it from Libya or Algeria, however.

...

MacKay also takes a look at the somewhat less right-on options. The biggies here are “clean” coal, in which coal power stations are modified so that the carbon they emit is captured and stuffed away somewhere, perhaps in old gas fields. For a man of his leanings — MacKay is a fairly hardcore pacifist, and more than a bit of a tree-hugger — he’s refreshingly open-minded.
"We must not let ourselves be swept off our feet in horror at the danger of nuclear power. Nuclear power is not infinitely dangerous. It’s just dangerous, much as coal mines, petrol repositories, fossil-fuel burning and wind turbines are dangerous."
MacKay concludes that nuclear scales up easily, and does so without dominating the country the way wind, solar, tidal and biomass do. The scale of engineering required, in terms of megatons of steel and concrete or areas of land and sea taken up, is enormously down on that needed by useful amounts of renewables.
Concerns over fuel price and security of supply aren’t nearly as much of an issue as they are with fossil fuels, because it’s comparatively easy to store energy-dense nuclear fuels like uranium and thorium — you could have several years’ supply stockpiled in the UK. If the price of the fuels rose, even if it multiplied seriously, it wouldn’t affect the price of energy much. Almost all the cost of nuclear energy comes from building, running and decommissioning the plant, and handling the wastes after.
Even so, present day nuclear fission technology is at best “a stopgap”, according to MacKay. His numbers suggest that the present method of using uranium would allow the entire human race to live like power-hog Americans in terms of power use for about a third of a year — assuming that only the uranium reserves now confirmed exist. Here MacKay perhaps reveals his natural anti-nuclear leanings somewhat, as he has put nuclear power to a much stiffer sustainability and fairness test than coal. But, showing commendable intellectual honesty, he goes on.
At present, there being no scarcity of uranium, it is typically dug from the ground and run through simple power stations just once before being classed as waste. Nobody explores for more uranium, and nobody has done so since the 1980s, because supplies are ample to meet current demand. There’s probably a lot more to be found, especially if the price of ore rose a lot. (Which wouldn’t affect the price of the energy significantly, remember.)
Furthermore, the use of fast-breeder reactors would get sixty times as much juice from a given amount of uranium, according to MacKay. Then, most get-at-able uranium is actually in the oceans, not in the ground — and the scale of the effort needed to mine the oceans for uranium, while noticeable in the same way as the nuclear stations themselves, is much less than mining the sea for wind and tide power.
Then, too, there’s thorium — probably a lot more abundant than uranium, and likewise full of juice.
Even MacKay admits that fast breeders and oceanic uranium together would power the entire human race at hoggish American levels for well over a thousand years, or at current European consumption for several millenia. He also says that known thorium reserves, used with current tech, would run the whole race at rich-westerner levels for several decades.
There’s also a thing called a thorium energy amplifier reactor which would be a lot more efficient. If it works as its Nobel prize-winning designers predict, known thorium reserves would run six billion people at American luxury for sixty thousand years.


...


MacKay is keen to stress that oceanic uranium extraction, the thorium energy amplifier and especially fusion are all unproven — though fast breeders are established kit. This is why he sees nuclear as a “stopgap”. He freely admits, however, that building new nuclear power stations is the most economic way of generating low-carbon power — and he confirmed to The Reg that in his view there would certainly be ample supplies of uranium to last the lifetime of any likely number of new UK plants.


...

You can see why he’s worried about getting that label [pro-nuclear], though. Worst case, assuming that only the known technologies work and only the known reserves exist, MacKay tells us that the entire human race could power itself — transport, domestic, industry, the lot — at hugely profligate American levels using nothing but fission for around a century. Since it’s unlikely that everyone will suddenly ditch fossil and ramp up to that level of use overnight, realistically you’re talking about at least a couple of centuries; longer if people only fancied being Europeans rather than Americans. It wouldn’t even cost much, compared to renewables.
A pretty useful stopgap, then. And if any of the gambles pay off — oceanic uranium, new thorium tech or fusion — the human race can pretty much relax. We’re sorted for at least a millennium, by which point we’ll hopefully be mining other planets.


...

Then, there’s the hard-green option for those who won’t have nukes or coal at all — plan G. “Greenpeace, I know, love wind,” says Mackay, “so plan G is dedicated to them, because it has lots of wind.”
"Nudging up the wave contribution … and bumping up wind power by a whopping 24 to 32 kWh per day per person … wind delivers 64 per cent of all the electricity.
Under this plan, world wind power in 2007 is multiplied by four, with all of the increase being placed on or around the British Isles. Roughly one hundred of Britain’s major lakes and lochs would be required for the associated pumped storage systems.
This plan gets 14% of its electricity from other countries.
The immense dependence of plan G on renewables, especially wind, creates difficulties for our main method of balancing supply and demand, namely adjusting the charging rate of millions of rechargeable batteries for transport. So in plan G we have to include substantial additional pumped storage facilities, capable of balancing out the fluctuations in wind on a timescale of days … Most major lochs in Scotland would be part of pumped storage systems."
It’s worth noting that in earlier analysis, MacKay suggested that pumped storage on this scale would be very hard to achieve using existing lakes and lochs. In actuality, vast amounts of seawater would probably get pumped up and down mountains and cliffs routinely to bridge the huge demand swings of a mostly-electric Britain and the massive variations in a mostly-wind powered grid.
MacKay made no effort to cost plan G, but he offers maps and figures indicating the staggering scale of the engineering. Britain would be literally covered with — and girdled by — massive wind farms, tidal barriers and wave barrages, and every sizeable body of water in the land would rise and fall to the strange new tides of the national grid. We would have literally rebuilt the British Isles as a single mighty renewable generator, pouring concrete and erecting steel on a scale so far matched only by human habitation — industrialising the land and sea in a way that would make intensive agribusiness look like a wildlife refuge. And still we’d be importing power.
That’s the reality of the Greenpeace plan for the UK, in hard numbers. You can see why MacKay is worried about their response.


Emphasis has been added. Mackay also has his own website (http://www.withouthotair.com/) where you can download his (currently unfinished) book.

I think there are some inescapable conclusions from this article - that renewables alone will not be able to deal with current energy demands let alone any future increases, meaning that nuclear power is essential. Biofuels are a total waste of energy and land which could otherwise be used to feed people (the energy gathered from biofuels is only enough to sustain medieval[ levels of energy consumption!).

I'm not a fan of "clean" coal but it's concievable that some currently existing coal plants may be converted into such while nuclear power plant construction gets up to speed.

My opinion of the best way forward would be to ramp up nuclear power plant production, begin construction of a vast Saharan solar farm that can provide Europe and North Africa with energy (Perhaps North America could do something similar in the American Southwest/North Mexico), and give maximum priority to fusion research in order to replace fission.

Cult of Reason
29th June 2008, 23:41
That was very interesting, thanks for that, NoXion.

I do, however, wonder if he has considered secondary and tertiary biofuels (which, according to Wikipedia, do not necesarily have to compete with food for land), despite the fact that they are far from maturing.

One major thing that would be good to have in addition to what he has already done is some numbers on consumption. For example, if the UK replaced all extensive farming with intensive or vertical farming (and abandoned 'free range' in favour of factory farming. Hooray for sow-stalls! (I am so sorry, but "animal welfare" is bad for the environment)); reopened all the old branch lines of the railway and built new ones, effectively abandoned cars (and therefore roads and hence soil erosion etc.) through congestion charges and taxes (and perhaps making all rail and tram and bus travel free at the point of use?) and reintoduced trams everywhere; redesigned/replaced (see Urbanates) cities with high density housing, abandoning long-range commuting, and especially abandoned the idea of suburbia; brought manufacturing back home; and, lastly, reconstructed the canal networks for energy efficient traffic of goods, what effect would that have upon overall energy demand in the UK in the long term? Our infrastructure, after all, is largely an unplanned legacy from a less advanced time and so is inefficient by its very nature.

Bluetongue
30th June 2008, 13:11
Not that I particularly disagree with what he is saying, but why consider this guy an expert other than that he's saying what you want to hear? He's a physics/computation guy, not the best at real world solutions.

Cult of Reason
30th June 2008, 16:52
This guy is actually comparing the numbers, which anyone with the inclination could probably do.

Also, keep in mind that he did not write the above article. His website, which has his book free-to-download is here:

http://www.withouthotair.com/

ÑóẊîöʼn
30th June 2008, 18:28
I do, however, wonder if he has considered secondary and tertiary biofuels (which, according to Wikipedia, do not necesarily have to compete with food for land), despite the fact that they are far from maturing.That's probably why he didn't consider them. Considering the availability of viable alternatives, who can blame him?


Not that I particularly disagree with what he is saying, but why consider this guy an expert other than that he's saying what you want to hear? He's a physics/computation guy, not the best at real world solutions.

Er, excuse me? Do you know what the biggest and most well-explored topics are in physics? Matter and energy! And you have to be good at mathematics to be a physicist.

That computer you're using? The reason it works is due to laws of physics that have been worked out to very fine degrees of accuracy.

Nuclear energy is a part of physics, so of course it's utterly ridiculous that someone with a PhD in Physics should weigh in on the debate [/sarcasm]. :rolleyes:

Bluetongue
1st July 2008, 12:28
Knowing oodles about magnetic bottles and warped space time doesn't make you a sage about human society. He knows about matter and energy, humans are made of matter and energy, ergo, he knows what to do when you have appendicitis? No.

I'm just being scientific. He's not an expert on this field. Does he plan to build breeder reactors in Syria? Zimbabwe? Sudan? There's a maxim when trying to do field experiments that involve humans: Always hire a sociologist.

Once, again, I don't disagree, he's just not an expert.

ÑóẊîöʼn
1st July 2008, 18:11
Knowing oodles about magnetic bottles and warped space time doesn't make you a sage about human society.

Physics is about so much more than that. Power generation is a process that directly involves the interactions of matter and energy - the energy in coal or uranium (Two kinds of matter with specific ranges of energy densities) is converted into varying amounts of electrical energy, kinetic energy, and thermal energy.

Working out the details of such processes falls directly into the domain of physics.


He knows about matter and energy, humans are made of matter and energy, ergo, he knows what to do when you have appendicitis? No.No, but I would be far more likely to listen to him than an ignorant layman who dismisses physicists without addressing any of their work.

For example, you.


I'm just being scientific. He's not an expert on this field. Does he plan to build breeder reactors in Syria? Zimbabwe? Sudan? There's a maxim when trying to do field experiments that involve humans: Always hire a sociologist."Sociology" is at best a "soft" science - which means that what "sociology" tells you about the world will be dubious at best, and at worst simply serves vested interests.

As for Syria and Zimbabwe etc building reactors, I think he's leaving that for them to decide for themselves. They're not children, you know. But maybe some "sociologist" will tell you that they're "too backwards" to have nuclear reactors.


Once, again, I don't disagree, he's just not an expert.He is considerably more qualified to speak on the matter than you... or me.

MarxSchmarx
1st July 2008, 21:08
No, but I would be far more likely to listen to him than an ignorant layman who dismisses physicists without addressing any of their work.

For example, you....
He is considerably more qualified to speak on the matter than you... or me.

Fair enough, but this point:


That's probably why he didn't consider them. Considering the availability of viable alternatives, who can blame him?

utterly fails to inspire. What does Mr. MacKay know about systems biology and metabolic engineering? Does he even know these fields exist? Even with his considerable talent in computational science, I doubt very seriously that he is fully up to date on the latest techniques employed in biological engineering and their transformative potential. How can he purport to pass judgment on the failures or successes of tertiary/secondary biofuels without any serious discussion of their practical limitations? Simply saying "they don't exist yet" ('on a large enough scale worthy of my approval') is a far from compelling argument against future research and the promise of these fields. First of all it is patently false. Already there are enormously successful efforts like biogas that can be improved considerably with our understanding of how biological systems work. The good professor is being disengenuous by dismissing second generation biofuels so readily.

Bluetongue
5th July 2008, 20:33
You're being a rude little wanker, you know?

Would you expect Oppenheimer to predict the Cold War and MAD? Nuclear winter? Did Einstein predict the Green anti-nuclear movement? He was, after all, a genius physicist and thus an all around paragon. Knowing math and physics tells you dick about human society and global politics.

Fast breeder reactors inherently produce weapons grade plutonium. That this never enters into his analysis tells you immediately that he is blind to the realpolitik of the situation. Faster breeder tech is basically off the shelf now, but very few of them exist. Can physics explain this? Or that just not important?

Then again, hard core communists have always had a problem with this situation: ideas that sound really great to them, which the public at large has no interest in at all. And you, NoXion, are reacting in a perfectly predictable manner - rather than trying to sell you idea, you get red in the face and run around insulting people. Marxasaurus, exhibit A. Hell, I don't even disagree with the idea, just the source, yet now I'm Enemy of the People #167,987. Pretty dysfunctional, don't y'know?

ÑóẊîöʼn
5th July 2008, 22:03
utterly fails to inspire. What does Mr. MacKay know about systems biology and metabolic engineering? Does he even know these fields exist? Even with his considerable talent in computational science, I doubt very seriously that he is fully up to date on the latest techniques employed in biological engineering and their transformative potential. How can he purport to pass judgment on the failures or successes of tertiary/secondary biofuels without any serious discussion of their practical limitations? Simply saying "they don't exist yet" ('on a large enough scale worthy of my approval') is a far from compelling argument against future research and the promise of these fields. First of all it is patently false. Already there are enormously successful efforts like biogas that can be improved considerably with our understanding of how biological systems work. The good professor is being disengenuous by dismissing second generation biofuels so readily.

He's taking the skeptical approach, like all (good) scientists do. As soon as biofuels becomes as viable as nuclear, fossil fuels or other renewables, then we can start talking. Until then, the discussion will stick with what's actually been shown to work.

I've seen an incredible amount of wanking over biofuels recently, in spite of the fact that their actual implementation has so far meant pushing up food prices as more land is devoted to growing biofuels. We should not be wasting valuable resources recreating energy generation techniques from the middle ages and starving our poorest in the process - we should wean ourselves off hydrocarbon-based fuels entirely!


You're being a rude little wanker, you know?

If you think I'm being rude, you ain't seen nothing yet.


Would you expect Oppenheimer to predict the Cold War and MAD? Nuclear winter? Did Einstein predict the Green anti-nuclear movement? He was, after all, a genius physicist and thus an all around paragon. Knowing math and physics tells you dick about human society and global politics.There is absolutely no way that such things could have been predicted by Oppenheimer or anyone else for that matter. The idea that sociologists have a predictive power on par with the hard sciences is completely laughable. So far, sociologists' predictions have been no better than chance - barring those hypotheses (such as Marxism) that await confirmation or falsification.

Technological development brings with it the risk of unintended consequences. It's a chance we have to take if we want more and better technology.

But let's look at the facts:

1. The Cold War didn't end in a nuclear conflagration, in spite of the constant whining of the doomsters and disasterbators.

2. The "nuclear winter" is an example of extremely dodgy science. The Chicxulub crater was formed by an asteroid that impacted with the force of 100 Teratons of TNT, or 100,000,000 Megatons. This asteroid caused a global drop in temperatures that may have contributed to the death of the dinosaurs. Compare that with with the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated, the Tsar Bomba at 50 Megatons, and you will see just how ridiculous the idea of a nuclear winter is.

3. Continuing "Green" resistance to nuclear technologies of any kind (including peaceful nuclear reactors) is actively damaging our chances of maintaining an advanced technological society. Too many people have been suckered into anti-nuclear propaganda or the "radiation = DEATH" strawman.


Fast breeder reactors inherently produce weapons grade plutonium. That this never enters into his analysis tells you immediately that he is blind to the realpolitik of the situation. Faster breeder tech is basically off the shelf now, but very few of them exist. Can physics explain this? Or that just not important?Because short-sighted politicians keep blocking their construction, revoking and refusing to renew their licences, and so on and so forth. As the energy crisis deepens those who are not incurably indoctrinated with Green propaganda will fast-track breeder reactors and such if that's what it takes to keep the power on.

As for the "scary" weapons grade plutonium, that just as useful as a fuel source than as a weapon. Considering the paucity of nuclear wars, I'm not overly concerned with Iran or Somalia getting nukes - I'm far more concerned about US imperialism, which has a very long and active history compared to nuclear warfare.


Then again, hard core communists have always had a problem with this situation: ideas that sound really great to them, which the public at large has no interest in at all.I think the public has considerable interest in keeping the power on!


And you, NoXion, are reacting in a perfectly predictable manner - rather than trying to sell you idea, you get red in the face and run around insulting people. Marxasaurus, exhibit A. Hell, I don't even disagree with the idea, just the source, yet now I'm Enemy of the People #167,987. Pretty dysfunctional, don't y'know?What does it mean to disagree with the source but not the idea?

As for being an "enemy of the people" there is no need to be so melodramatic - I merely called you an ignorant layman, which is what you are. The fact that you took considerably umbrage at this statement suggests you hold delusions of grandeur about your scientific knowledge.

MarxSchmarx
6th July 2008, 20:19
As soon as biofuels becomes as viable as nuclear, fossil fuels or other renewables, then we can start talking. Until then, the discussion will stick with what's actually been shown to work.


Like any real novel technology, second-generation biofuels require considerable $$$ investment to get off the ground. Nipping it in the bud is sticking heads in the sand.



I've seen an incredible amount of wanking over biofuels recently, in spite of the fact that their actual implementation has so far meant pushing up food prices as more land is devoted to growing biofuels. We should not be wasting valuable resources recreating energy generation techniques from the middle ages and starving our poorest in the process - we should wean ourselves off hydrocarbon-based fuels entirely!


So you are saying:

biofuels fail us --> we should take money away from any biofuel research --> without money, biofuel research happens on a limited scale --> biofuel research fails us --> we should take more money away from any biofueld research --> ...

Yep, that effectively kills any prospect for using things like algae and bacteria for biofuel.

I mean, after all, the only bioefuels that will ever, hence and forever more, work, are based off of agricultural crops like maze and sugar. If we can't eat it, or unless it requires clearing huge forest land, it can't be made into convertible energy. :rolleyes:



3. Continuing "Green" resistance to nuclear technologies of any kind (including peaceful nuclear reactors) is actively damaging our chances of maintaining an advanced technological society. Too many people have been suckered into anti-nuclear propaganda or the "radiation = DEATH" strawman.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the city of Chernobyl is famous for being a center for Roman Catholic and Hasidic Jewish learning and religion within Orthodox Ukraine...

Seriously, though, nuclear takes time and considerable money to be a viable energy source. By the time a few plants are up and running, we can build off-shore windfarms, dams, desert-solar, and, unless people like this Mackay have their say on funding priorities, biofuels made by bacteria.

ÑóẊîöʼn
6th July 2008, 21:28
Like any real novel technology, second-generation biofuels require considerable $$$ investment to get off the ground. Nipping it in the bud is sticking heads in the sand.

Alright, impress me. What's so damn special about second-generation biofuels? What will implementation of biofuels achieve apart from allowing us as a society to continue our stupidly wasteful love affair with the private internal combustion-powered motor vehicle?


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the city of Chernobyl is famous for being a center for Roman Catholic and Hasidic Jewish learning and religion within Orthodox Ukraine...Please. Chernobyl may considered uninhabitable (by humans at least - animals seem to have no trouble living there) but Green propaganda would have you believe that Europe is suffering a surfeit of babies with three heads.


Seriously, though, nuclear takes time and considerable money to be a viable energy source. By the time a few plants are up and running, we can build off-shore windfarms, dams, desert-solar, and, unless people like this Mackay have their say on funding priorities, biofuels made by bacteria.Nuclear power is a proven technology - getting nuclear power only takes as long as it takes to build the plant. I'm all for the development of desert-solar, as a quick back-of the envelope calculation suggests that a solar-thermal plant covering 4.5 million square kilometres (less than half of the total area of the Sahara) will provide approximately 542 Gigawatts of energy. Tidal power (http://orbitalvector.com/Power/Tidal%20Power/TIDAL%20POWER.htm) also looks interesting.

But I'm also interested in the possibilities of even grander projects like damming the mediterranean (http://geology.about.com/od/climate_change/a/Medit_dam.htm), reviving the Atlantropa Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa) in some form or even creating artificial seas in Africa (http://www.xefer.com/image/africa.jpg) if the nations involved are willing. Other projects such as turning the Sahara into a breadbasket via genetically engineered plants and nuclear-powered desalination plants supplying an irrigation network, and turning Siberia into yet another breadbasket using orbital mirrors to reflect additional sunlight onto that dark, boreal plain also interest me.

MarxSchmarx
7th July 2008, 20:59
Alright, impress me. What's so damn special about second-generation biofuels? What will implementation of biofuels achieve apart from allowing us as a society to continue our stupidly wasteful love affair with the private internal combustion-powered motor vehicle?First, they don't require space apart from laboratories/factories so that wastelands like Iceland can make them. Secondly, they are self-sustaining. For example, some ecoli can produce ethanol, while other GM-ed strains can produce food for the ethanol producing E. Coli. Thirdly, they can use existing distribution infrastructure. I have spoken to folks working on algae and E.Coli as biofuel potential, and they tell me we are about 5 years from replacing petroleum. These are scientists, not venture capitalists. Scientists tend to be uber-conservative about technological progress and so when they say 5 years I'm quite excited..

Now as far as the private internal combustion powered motor vehicle goes, sure the SUV clowns benefit, but there are plenty of countries whose electric production depends on petroleum, especially in the second and third world. They built oil based power plants when petroleum was cheap and now find themselves screwed. Can you really seriously expect places like Gambia to build nuclear power plants anytime soon?


Please. Chernobyl may considered uninhabitable (by humans at least - animals seem to have no trouble living there) but Green propaganda would have you believe that Europe is suffering a surfeit of babies with three heads.I thought you believed animal rights are irrelevant? So who cares how the non-human "animals" are doing. Of course, I agree with you that it has been exaggerated. But Chernobyl shows that human beings are fallible (surprise surprise), and nuclear power is not as idiot-proof as its supporters will have us believe.


Nuclear power is a proven technology - getting nuclear power only takes as long as it takes to build the plant. I'm all for the development of desert-solar, as a quick back-of the envelope calculation suggests that a solar-thermal plant covering 4.5 million square kilometres (less than half of the total area of the Sahara) will provide approximately 542 Gigawatts of energy. Tidal power (http://www.anonym.to/?http://orbitalvector.com/Power/Tidal%20Power/TIDAL%20POWER.htm) also looks interesting.

But I'm also interested in the possibilities of even grander projects like damming the mediterranean (http://www.anonym.to/?http://geology.about.com/od/climate_change/a/Medit_dam.htm), reviving the Atlantropa Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa) in some form or even creating artificial seas in Africa (http://www.xefer.com/image/africa.jpg) if the nations involved are willing. Other projects such as turning the Sahara into a breadbasket via genetically engineered plants and nuclear-powered desalination plants supplying an irrigation network, and turning Siberia into yet another breadbasket using orbital mirrors to reflect additional sunlight onto that dark, boreal plain also interest me.YES. Abso-fucking-lutely.

I think the only problem with things like the Sahara solar project is the political will. Once again, the establishment of socialism seems like a necessity. As to the other stuff, I think novel technological innovations are needed, but I have no doubt they will come in time. Even under capitalism, however slowly.