"Prestige" or just another cappie screw up..

[Anonymous]

The 26-year-old Prestige sank to the bottom of the sea off Spain after breaking into two on Tuesday 13 . 10,000 tonnes of fuel oil were spilled on the sea, the damages are great, fishermen are facing a loss of earnings. Some have taken their boats out of the water, while others have formed a barrier with their boats at the mouth of one inlet. This acident will be a disaster to the environment, a great problem to spanish and portuguese fishermen, a problem for both Spain and Portugal, a head ache for EU, and a incident to the big bosses that own the oil... funny how the real guiltys, the ones that try at all forces to prevent new non-poluent energys productions, those shall never pay, the captain of the ship as well as some crue will, they will be the ones to pay and be sued. Yet the ones that demanded quick deliverys, the elitist motherfuckers taht poisen our world, those will survive...

Isn´t it time to end this bulshit? Have we or havent we got technology and time to invest in non-poluent energys, instead of using oil to drive? Isn´t it time to arrest and punish the elitists that continue to poison our planet? How many times weill we see stupid acidents like this one? It´s time to stop this, time to listen to green partys, to start taking care of our world, and live in harmony with our people? instead of continuing this consumism and poison our world. It´s time to change, It´s time to end capitalism, for nature´s sake its time to save our world, and don´t forget, Humans are nature, let us save ourselfs and our world...

[Exploited Class]

I know that I own a car and it runs on gas and I feel a sharp pain of guilt everytime I turn that key.

I did very little to stop this.

[Anonymous]

the guilty isnt the one that drives, but the one that sells you the gasoline...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Why are we looking to prosecute for guilt?

This was just a horrible accident. We are all sorry it happened.

Don't exploit this issue in your crusade against free markets.

[tucows]

Quote: from the anarchist on 10:04 pm on Nov. 20, 2002
The 26-year-old Prestige sank to the bottom of the sea off Spain after breaking into two on Tuesday 13 . 10,000 tonnes of fuel oil were spilled on the sea, the damages are great, fishermen are facing a loss of earnings.



actually it was 10 million tons

(Edited by tucows at 11:34 pm on Nov. 20, 2002)

[BOZG]

I'm not sure about the figures but anarchist is right that so far only a "small" amount of oil has actually spilled while there is another few million tonnes left in the tanks. They say that if the rest of the oil was to spill it would be twice as bad as the Exxon Valdez situation.

[Tkinter1]

yeah anrachist, u kno wat i herd,

I herd that the captain of his ship and crue caled up the elitist muthafuckars and told them that they shouldnt go through becuase the oil could spill because the captain new and then they would hurt the envirmoent but the muny hungry elitist muther fuckes said "fuck u push the oil thru at all costs i dont care if a million fish die and we lose the hole shipment just get my oil here *****' and the captain was like 'but sir the illegal child workers u made us hiar cant handle the seas well' but the cappy elitist said ' yeah but they were cheap and i dont care if they die, so push the oil thru or ill have u executed"..

Did u her about that anarchist?


"Have we or havent we got technology and time to invest in non-poluent energys"

The answer yes. Visteon, a subsidiary of Ford has devised a car which will run half on hydrogen, and half on electricity. It is reported to be very fuel efficient, and it's right around the corner.

"Isn´t it time to arrest and punish the elitists that continue to poison our planet?"

Which 'elitist' exactly?

"How many times weill we see stupid acidents like this one? "

As long as stupid accidents exist

"It´s time to stop this, time to listen to green partys, to start taking care of our world, and live in harmony with our people?"

Everybody wishes we could unite the world. But you can only unite people who want to be united.

"it´s time to change, It´s time to end capitalism."

Yeah becuase once we abolish Capitalism all of our problems will be solved!

[Anonymous]

"Why are we looking to prosecute for guilt?

This was just a horrible accident. We are all sorry it happened.

Don't exploit this issue in your crusade against free markets.
"

Oh yea! oil is spilled and you say: Were all sorry! that will help a lot!

a crusade? maby! maby we NEED a crusade to end free market! free market that sounds pretty cool and democratic doesnt it? yes free, but another type of freedom, freedom to explore, freedom to enslave! now that freedom deserves a good crusade!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 11:37 pm on Nov. 20, 2002
I'm not sure about the figures but anarchist is right that so far only a "small" amount of oil has actually spilled while there is another few million tonnes left in the tanks. They say that if the rest of the oil was to spill it would be twice as bad as the Exxon Valdez situation.


although spain's coastline where the spill occured was highly developed/industrialized and somewhat polluted

where the valdez ran aground, alaska's coast was near untouched and pristine

I think history will show that the valdez spill is relatively worse, ecologically speaking

[BOZG]

I really couldn't agree or disagree with you CI because I know very little about the situation. By twice as bad I meant that twice the amount of oil that leaked from the Valdez could be leaked from the Prestige.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 12:28 am on Nov. 21, 2002
I really couldn't agree or disagree with you CI because I know very little about the situation. By twice as bad I meant that twice the amount of oil that leaked from the Valdez could be leaked from the Prestige.

has the oil already leaked? i thought that most of the oil was still in the hold, and hasn't really spilled out yet

if it does, though, you are right. by measure of sheer volume this spill will be almost 2x as bad

[BOZG]

Yes the majority of the oil is still in the hold but there are fears that this could leak too. I know one option they're hoping for is that as the oil containers sink to the bottom of the sea, the oil will solidify and it will not cause a problem.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 1:09 am on Nov. 21, 2002
Yes the majority of the oil is still in the hold but there are fears that this could leak too. I know one option they're hoping for is that as the oil containers sink to the bottom of the sea, the oil will solidify and it will not cause a problem.

yeah, I heard that too. Lets all hope that that is what happens

[Anonymous]

Tkinter: you pathetic efort to be funny by mocking with my (or any other member) bad english was very stupid, not to mention useless, but yes apart from the chil labor part it was prety true, then your poor sarcasm is a insult to sarcastics all over the world, i honestly advice you to train it a litle more

[Anonymous]

actually the spanish problem is a bit more fucked, lives of hundreds of fishermens depends on taht sea, and now theyr on direct jeopardy, the coast may alredy be poluted, but nothing compares to this black tide. Also teh polution existent in the spanish coast wasnt killing much sea life, and now this black tide is killing all sea life it cans, so it is correct to say that it was ecologically speaking worse.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:42 am on Nov. 21, 2002
actually the spanish problem is a bit more fucked, lives of hundreds of fishermens depends on taht sea, and now theyr on direct jeopardy, the coast may alredy be poluted, but nothing compares to this black tide. Also teh polution existent in the spanish coast wasnt killing much sea life, and now this black tide is killing all sea life it cans, so it is correct to say that it was ecologically speaking worse.

alaskas fishery was severely hurt, and in some areas never did recover. and alaskas fishery is much, much larger than spains

[BOZG]

and alaskas fishery is much, much larger than spains

The Spanish have a tendancy to fish in everyone else's waters aswell.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 1:47 am on Nov. 21, 2002

and alaskas fishery is much, much larger than spains


LOL, they would be taken in by a US coast guard cutter if they tried that in alaska
The Spanish have a tendancy to fish in everyone else's waters aswell.

[Anonymous]

we cant really point what is worse, they are both bad, and both guiltys should be hanged by theyr own guts (go ahead call me radical but see waht the black tides do to nature and then think if htis isn´t the right thing to do)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:53 am on Nov. 21, 2002
we cant really point what is worse, they are both bad, and both guiltys should be hanged by theyr own guts (go ahead call me radical but see waht the black tides do to nature and then think if htis isn´t the right thing to do)

we agree here

[Exploited Class]

This just makes me think of one quote from the movie Jurasiac Park, I know I spelled that wrong anyway, Jeff Goldblum's character says,
"The scientists were so pre-ocupied with the question of 'if they can' they never asked if they should'.

I believe this ecological disaster does deserve some Capitalism Vs. Socialism debate to it. This has some weight to it.

Capitalism is very, very, very competitive. I think we all can agree on this except maybe tnkiner because he has his 9 year old face on. In this competitiveness the leaders of the buisnesses catapult and race to get new and better (now mind you better is a relative term) out to the public for purchase. They do this with little concerns to people's safety or health. I think we are seeing this now with Cell Phones, we saw it with Asbeostos ect.ect.

Somebody was *****ing a little while ago about do we have time for clean energy research? Well yes we did, prior to using our discovery of oil. Now of course we are very hooked on it, and we didn't really get hooked on it till Ford came up with a great way to make money. But did we spend any amount of time and say wait, what will the repercussions of this be down the road for us and the enviroment? How much of this should be use.
No, we truly were too busy trying to make new products to use this new discovery. It was that capitalist greed that came in and seized and exploited a natural resource with out worrying about the ill effects. Its almost like 1 year old babies finding anything and then putting it in it's mouth to find out if it is okay to eat. The baby doesn't stop to think, hmmm maybe I should wait till I do this.

I am not saying that communism at the time would have stopped the use of fossil fuels but would have limited the use of the fossil fuels. I have lived in communist countries and very few people have or used cars, and the reason was there was little or no need. Street cars everywhere, somewhat reliable, plentifull and the way modern cities had been designed most essientials, schools, shopping ect.ect were right next door to you. It wouldn't have stopped the use but limited the use.

Secondly, in America we will be damned if we the people will ever be able to get the Auto Companies to ever start using stricter and cleaner fuel burning technics. We sure in the hell can't out lobby them considering the big 3 is about the biggest lobby group out there. We hope that they will spend their own money on research for us, but that is happening so very slowly, because they don't want to spend a lot. They are greedy with their money.

In a communist society something like the above would not be an issue. Nobody owns an auto industry so if it turns out that there is a good chance it is doing harm you just pump up the research on better alternatives. Nevermind the fact that you are already limiting resources, less large ships carrying millions of tons of oil across the seas, less chances for disaster.

And lastly, in a communist society you don't have people making profit, so there isn't this strange other group of scientist stating that the greenhouse effect isn't happening to protect a company's profit. So when scientists say, "hey we think we might be messing things up here on a global scale, as a society it is less confusing to make appropriate changes and hedge on the side of caution."

[Anonymous]

cheers comrade!

it really comes down to this, we have the time, we have the technology, but oil corporations don´t let us do it...