British justice system hysterical over youth crime - latest example

[Zurdito]

I found this ridiculous and disgusting, not sure about anyone else. undoubtedly what htis guy did was terrible, but to convict him of murder of a person because someone shot at him and hit her by accident? Murder is the calculated killing of another human being, I have seen much worse cases where no "murder" sentence could be given, so this is very hard to accept. it seems that the shaken British establishment is more and more tearing up its own rule book when it comes to cracking down on crimes committed by anyone young, workign class and/or of an ethnic minority, the assumption apparently being that subtleties like liberal democratic rights shouldn't matter when it comes to "getting tough" on the "scum".

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKL2351712120080623

LONDON (Reuters) - An 18-year-old man was sentenced on Monday to life imprisonment for murdering a care worker caught in the crossfire of a "Wild West" shootout in a south London car park.

Polish-born Magda Pniewska, 26, died instantly after she was hit in the head by a stray bullet a few hundred yards from her home in New Cross last October.

She had been talking to her sister in Poland on her mobile phone as the shooting between two teenagers erupted in a car park opposite the care home where she worked.

Armel Gnango, then 17, had denied murder, attempted murder and possessing a gun to endanger life but was found guilty by an Old Bailey jury last month on all charges.

He had admitted having a prohibited weapon.

During sentencing at St Albans Crown Court on Monday Gnango was told he would have to serve at least 20 years before becoming eligible for parole.

He was also sentenced to 12 years for the attempted murder of the other teenager and to five years for possession of a firearm, both sentences to run concurrently.

Prosecutors said Gnango was criminally responsible for Pniewska's death even though he did not fire the bullet that killed her.

At his trial the jury had heard that the youths had pre-planned their fight because Gnango was owed money by his rival.

"In scenes reminiscent of the Wild West, Magda was to become the innocent victim of a gunfight by two young men who were total strangers to her," prosecutor Brian Altman had told the jury.

"She was caught in the cross-fire between two youths armed with handguns which they were willing to use in public. Each had a score to settle."

Police only had enough evidence to charge Gnango -- who was born in the Ivory Coast and lived in Brixton, south London.
(Reporting by Tim Castle)

[spartan]

I think that you are reading way to much into this.

The way i see it is "accidental" or not he was illegally in possesion of a firearm and was having a shootout with another person who was also illegally in possesion of a firearm and who both intended to kill each other using these weapons.

The fact that one of them ended up killing a completely innocent person who was walking home from work makes no difference in my mind. (Except that it is all the more disgusting)

Fortunately this person will have the rest of his life behind bars to think about the terrible thing which he has done.

You should spend your time fighting the cause of the working class not some criminal who gets off on being part of a gang (Which make local working class people's lives a living hell) and having shootouts with rival gangs to gain "territory" which ended up killing a completely innocent bystander with her whole life ahead of her.

This attitude is exactly the kind of shit which is loosing us support and giving the BNP bigger gains everytime there is a general, local or by-election.

We are completely out of touch with the modern working class.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Spartan, you're an idiot. There is no way that this life sentence is remotely just. The guy didn't set out to kill that woman - her death a total accident on his part. The only reason this person got a life sentence is because the bourgeouis media absolutely shits itself over guns.


The way i see it is "accidental" or not he was illegally in possesion of a firearm and was having a shootout with another person who was also illegally in possesion of a firearm and who both intended to kill each other using these weapons.

So if someone were to attempt to run over someone else in a stolen car, but ended up unintentionally killing a bystander instead, you would support a life sentence?


Fortunately this person will have the rest of his life behind bars to think about the terrible thing which he has done.No he won't. In prison this guy will either die by inches or become a monster.

Prison isn't the sort of environment that lends itself well to self-reflection.


You should spend your time fighting the cause of the working class not some criminal who gets off on being part of a gang (Which make local working class people's lives a living hell) and having shootouts with rival gangs to gain "territory" which ended up killing a completely innocent bystander with her whole life ahead of her.

This attitude is exactly the kind of shit which is loosing us support and giving the BNP bigger gains everytime there is a general, local or by-election.Bourgeouis nonsense! While some people may be turned off by "bleeding heart" rhetoric, the fact of the matter is that capitalist society is equally responsible for both the plight of the "law-abiding" working class (Who aren't as law-abiding as bourgeouis liberals like to think) and those involved in gangs.


We are completely out of touch with the modern working class.Indeed. Most of us don't recognise that some working class people prefer a life of crime to a mind-numbing McJob.

[spartan]

Spartan, you're an idiot. There is no way that this life sentence is remotely just. The guy didn't set out to kill that woman - her death a total accident on his part.

This is besides the point. The point is accidental or not the guy was intent on killing another person. The fact that the person he ended up killing was a completely innocent person instead of the person he was intending to kill makes this crime all the more worse.

But that is besides the point as the person in question went out armed with a weapon and with the intention to kill and he ended up killing someone.

So if someone were to attempt to run over someone else in a stolen car, but ended up unintentionally killing a bystander instead, you would support a life sentence?
No because his intention wasnt to kill that person in the stolen car.

The kid in question set out to kill another person and ended up killing a completely innocent person who had nothing to do with there criminal activities.

The way i see it is people shouldnt be allowed to get away with that because if they are then sooner or later they will be back out on the streets and intent on killing someone else. (He was before whats to say he wont again?)

No he won't. In prison this guy will either die by inches or become a monster.

Prison isn't the sort of environment that lends itself well to self-reflection.
I agree the current prison system is fucked up and probably wont make him more reflective, but he cant complain exactly can he seeing how he killed someone which is why he is there in the first place.

Indeed. Most of us don't recognise that some working class people prefer a life of crime to a mind-numbing McJob.
Like it or not comarde but most working class people i know would be saying that this kid deserves to be hung.

Are they wrong for thinking this?

Certainly it is a bit extreme but then people tend to get extreme ideas in their heads when thinking about solving problems which affect them day in and day out and which they are absolutely sick and tired of. (Gangland violence and youth crime for example)

Working class people arent all ready to pick up the red flag and cry liberty.

The modern far-left does nothing constructive to solve the daily problems of working class people in our society and instead just comes out with idealistic utopian nonsense about how everything will be solved "after the revolution" (Alot like Christians say everything will be okay when you die and enter heaven) and with a few quotes from some obscure 19th or early 20th century figure thrown in for free. (Even though the majority of working class people dont know who you are talking about or dont give a shit either way as they have more pressing concerns in the real world)

Indeed it seems that most modern leftists are more concerned with their ideological purity and discussing how some early twentieth century figures with no relevance today were right and wrong instead of doing some real constructive work with the people we apparently aim to liberate some day.

This kind of attitude alienates most people and makes them look for alternatives (The BNP for example who are more than happy to fill the gap left by Old Labour) and we are left in the lurch wondering why this is the case.

So until then lets not be taking on the causes of people who's actions are doing more to win parties like the BNP working class votes then the threat of terrorism, as there is absolutely no need for us to get involved in this unless the authorities are abusing their power. (Which in this case they werent)

[Luís Henrique]

I don't know how these things are handled in the United Kingdom, but here in Brazil, if you accidentally kill a person while trying to kill another one, you are responsible for the crime, and you should be sentenced as you had killed the one you intended to kill, plus, if it is the case, an aditional sentence for your incompetence/negligence in doing it.

Like this: trying to kill a criminal who is directly threatening you, and hitting an innocent person - no sentence for homicide, as it is self defence, but a (much smaller) sentence for mishandling you weapon. Trying to kill an innocent person, and accidentally killing a criminal who was assaulting that innocent person - sentence for homicide.

The problem here seems to be the fact that it wasn't Gnago who actually killed Magda. But it seems quite clear that he was the responsible for the whole situation, being the aggressor in the gang fight. So while it may be technically contorted, I do not see it like some great unjustice that we all should fight against.

Luís Henrique

[RedAnarchist]

It surely must only be involuntary manslaughter if he didn't fire the fatal shot? He intended to hurt the other guy, not to kill Magda.