The Myth of Che Guevara - ...the real life of an idalist scu

[MaxB]

IN LIFE, Ernesto "Che" Guevara was, after his success in helping Fidel
Castro make the Cuban revolution, a failure. The other would-be revolutions
embraced by this Argentine-born ideologue crumbled. But in death he
blossomed as a symbol of youthful daring and utopian aspiration in a global
movement -- communism -- that came to be completely discredited yet
survives in Cuba and a few other countries and in the minds of a diaspora
of incurable romantics and unrepentant commissars. Some of his remains,
found in a secret Bolivian grave and returned to Cuba last July, are at the
center of Havana's current commemoration of the "30th Anniversary of the
Death in Combat of the Heroic Guerrilla and His Comrades."

A country chooses its own heroes. Yet it was not "Cuba," in the sense of an
entity representing an inarguably valid popular will, that installed Che
Guevara in his adopted country's pantheon. It was a self-appointed Marxist
elite, which first found a use for him as a guerrilla leader making and
exporting revolution and then found further use for him as a fixture of
state propaganda. For that latter role, he had just the right attributes,
being glamorous, audacious, given to spouting idealistic slogans,
self-sacrificing, young (39 when he died in 1967) and -- perhaps best of
all -- dead and hence no threat to the ruling circles.

He was also something else: a killer who executed "traitors" in his own
ranks and boasted of winning peasant support by "planned terror," a
believer "in the revolution" who gave a gloss of intellectuality and social
justice to the pursuit of single-party power, and a man who hated his
political enemies and thereby felt empowered to destroy them. It seems a
just irony that this man who claimed to be "with the people" finally was
turned in to the Bolivian army by the very peasants in whose name he was
attempting a revolution.

All this might be no more than a historical footnote but for the fact that
the Cuban regime Che Guevara served is still in power and still using him
for its own anti-democratic ends. Indeed, his simultaneous success as a
contemporary pop icon seems to be bestowing on him a good deal more than
the fabled 15 minutes in the public eye. A pity, then, that he is not seem
more widely and clearly for what he was: not the Marxist Robin Hood of myth
but someone who did his country, and not only his country, much harm.

[canikickit]

You're a boring bastard, Max.

"...the real life of an idalist scumbag."

Wow, you actually dislike people for being idealistic.

You either dislike people for being idealistic, which says to me that you are afraid of new things, you are not an original thinker. Quite unsurprising, considering you are a right-winger.

Perhaps, alternatively, you said "idealist" as a buzz-word. Also, typical of right-wing scumbuckets. "Liberal", "dems", wow, it's pathetic.

[Navid Communist]

How do u dare to open your mouth and talk shit about Che. Go fuck yourself

[Capitalist Imperial]

Wow, the commie pukes sure get angry when the truth about Che is exposed.

Good expose, MAX B!

Long live the United States!!!!

Long live Capitalism!

[Guest]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 10:59 pm on Nov. 16, 2002
Long live Capitalism!
what a horrible thing to say.

[Hayduke]

Ill get back on the rest later..

" He was also something else: a killer who executed "traitors" in his own ranks "

Ever heard of war tactics my dear friend ?
In a guerillia war is fatal to have traitors under your own men.
And if you dont understand anything of this, and can't see the reason of killing traitors, then I suggest you go read Che's book
guerillia warfare sometimes.

[Hayduke]

Then again, why should I come with a second reply to you article, since its seems to be only based on foolish opnions, that arent backed up by facts or whatsoever.

An article doesnt automatically mean, a good argument MAXB,
and I even doubt you read it yourself.

If you did, you would know that this article provides nothing on evidence that Che wasnt the hero as we picture him.

Then again, articles are your only defence, aint it ?

[Kehoe]

I hate to appear as a fly drawn to a ripe pile of shit but cannot resist this impulse to respond.I dont find it such a strange matter that these maggots that feed off the death and decay of society are quick to criticize those who wish to revitalize that which capitalism exploits and butchers by means of materialistic intoxication,extortion and suppression of a truly egalitarian human ethic.What is strange is the fact that certain Comrades who eagerly jump to the defense of Che take part themselves in the criticism of Comrade Stalin,and I tell each and everyone of you that may read this post that were Che among us at this time any criticism of Comrade Stalin would indeed arouse Ches anger and he would tell you in no uncertain terms to"Fuck off".As for ruthlessness,consider the treatment of native Americans,the enslavement and harsh treatment of the black man who was stolen away from his own continnent in order to be placed on trading blocks as if he were cattle and whose mothers,sisters and daughters were raped by slaveowners who then sold their mulatto offspring as opportunistically as any other slave.Theres also the Chinese immigrants who worked on the railway lines,the Irish who even as children were forced to work in mines,the treatment of Japanese Americans during the second world war,and the criminal act of Truman and his administration who inhumanely dropped the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki after Japan had already agreed to submit to surrender,and this the Americans did merely in order to send a signal to Moscow that they had at last produced the bomb.The atrocities carried out by the U.S. are too far-outreaching and innumerable to categorically list but suffice it to say that they are evident to anyone wishing to investigate the span of American history in an unbiased manner.Che was a revolutionary,a revolutionary takes part in revolutionary action,and revolutionary action requires the spilling of blood ... is there any part of this equation that still remains unclear to you?The liberals in their exaggerated sensitivity criticize and condemn the actions of revolutionaries in the field whose objective is to advance and increase their forces at all costs and by no means can they permit insubordination and treachery among their ranks,and in such circumstances reason can be executed with the smallest handgun.So the imperialist pigs dont like El Commandante Che ... may I say with the utmost sincerity that I dont give a flying fuck!

[IHP]

"were Che among us at this time any criticism of Comrade Stalin would indeed arouse Ches anger and he would tell you in no uncertain terms to"Fuck off"

Dont presume upon someone elses opinion. Also, do not use the "Che would have..." argument. Thats bullshit, you dont know what Che would do.

Apart from that I pretty much agree with the rest.

--IHP

[Kehoe]

i hate pinochet has restated my "were Che among us at this time any criticism of Comrade Stalin would indeed arouse Ches anger and he would tell you in no uncertain terms to"Fuck off" and adds "Dont presume upon someone elses opinion. Also, do not use the "Che would have..." argument. Thats bullshit, you dont know what Che would do."Thanks Comrade for calling my attention to what should have been worded in more reasonable terms and allowing me the opportunity to clarify the matter.It is better stated thus,"based on my observance of Ches ideology,admiration of Comrade Stalin,and independent personality I feel that were Che among us at this time any criticism of Comrade Stalin would indeed arouse Ches anger and he would tell you in no uncertain terms to"Fuck off"although he may have selected other words to convey this sentiment. As for my using this so-called Che would have ... "argument,which is bullshit,for I dont know what Che would do ... again,I am simply expressing the Che of my own perception based on my study of the man and his personal choices in life and in this I take no greater liberty than anyone who dares comment upon a man other than himself,for what more are we than the perception of others?Humans are by nature complex beings and it is the prejudice of men to refuse to see others except in light of a few select aspects.

[Lardlad95]

MAX B please for teh love of all that is good stop this madness please pick a new subject

it's the same shit going round and round.

I mean you circulate teh same arguements over and over again...why?

[Lardlad95]

Guevara won support through terrorizing peasants?

Do you even know anythin about Fulgencino Batista?

I suggest you look up his record during the revolution

[Panamarisen]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 3:11 pm on Nov. 17, 2002
Guevara won support through terrorizing peasants?

Do you even know anythin about Fulgencino Batista?

I suggest you look up his record during the revolution

Even more, Ché actually was AGAINST terrorism... He always said it´s different to kill some oppressor politically "important" than to kill a lot of people at once, much or most of them being innocent people.
He wasn´t a terrorist. He was a REVOLUTIONARY.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Panamarisen on 6:57 pm on Nov. 17, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 3:11 pm on Nov. 17, 2002
Guevara won support through terrorizing peasants?

Do you even know anythin about Fulgencino Batista?

I suggest you look up his record during the revolution

Even more, Ché actually was AGAINST terrorism... He always said it´s different to kill some oppressor politically "important" than to kill a lot of people at once, much or most of them being innocent people.
He wasn´t a terrorist. He was a REVOLUTIONARY.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!


Hasta La Victoria Siempre Muthafuckas!

Che realied on the aid of peaseants during the revolution

He even noted how important it was when he said whythe revolution in Bolivia was failing because the peasents were mainly Native American so they didn't trust hispanics anymore than they trusted white people.

Now why would Che torture people he needed?

[sibling]

Max, fuck you
no, better yet, go fuck the representative of your planet in a single logo, go fuck mickey mouse

You should read a book! Yes i know that they are relatively new inventions for distant right-wingers such as yourself, but even you should be open to this new idea. But wait, that would mean even more new ideas would come pouring out of the book.

Naw, screw it, that's too much thinking and requires a relatively open mind, you should just go and hide in a cave where you can't bother people.

off you go!

viva che!
screw max!

[sibling]

*****when i wrote planet i meant his own capitalist corner******

[IHP]

Kehoe, no worries mate, i just don't like people presuming upon someone elses opinion and reaction.

--IHP

[MaxB]

Why do you left wingers have to be so offensive. I'm only pointing out how misinformed you non-productive social deviants are. Che is DEAD and he's going stay dead. There's more to life than admiring a relic of a fail ideology. Then again, all you have to do is look and see the type of individuals who admired Che: "the null and void" of society---the uneducated garbage.

[bluerev002]

no max b, your wrong. Che did not fail. HE is dead, sure, but the revolution lives on, thanks to this man and his ideas. he failed in Africa, then he went off to Bolivia, and was killed there. in a way, yes, he failed, and it is silly to get mad and start getting offensive, because its true. he did fail. when he failed in Africa, he attmited to himself, i failed, but he did not give up. that is a very admirable thing, and he used that failed mission to his advantage.

he succeded in continuing the revolution, "you can kill a revolutionary, but you cant kill a revolution " and he is so popular today because of that fact.

also, Che and Castro won because they were aided by the pesants, not because he terroised them. who ever told you this is your enemy.


(Edited by bluerev002 at 11:18 pm on Nov. 22, 2002)

[Politix]

ayo Max B ... all the shit u said was either propoganda or opinion. I really don't think we even have to argue with this idiot. and Capo-talist Impoorial you just go and praise Bush. what ever yo...

PEACE

[MEXCAN]

Come on Guys!!!!Can't you tell that MAXB didn't actually write this post !!!Little Maxie found a site that bashes "Nuestro Comandante" and COPY AND PASTED
an article !!!!!!

[bluerev002]

of course, he did the same thing with all the otehr threads. come on maxy cant u think for yourself? oh no wait, thats what you have the goverment for. right-wingers. LOL.

[anti machine]

Now now, we don't need verbal abuse. We can discuss this rationally.

"Che is DEAD and he's going stay dead. There's more to life than admiring a relic of a fail ideology."

I suppose that DEAD people have no lasting impression upon the lives of living people who survive them. Their message, writings, and example dissapears once they kick the can, right? So your "heroes": Douglass Macarthur, Richard Nixon, Adam Smith, Teddy Roosevelt; I suppose they're going to stay dead so who gives a shit about what they did and said, right?
IF we forgot people when they died, these "relics", then your beautiful U.S. government would not be in existance. We would discard thier lives as pointless since they're no longer with us.

Max, I can't figure you out.

"Then again, all you have to do is look and see the type of individuals who admired Che: "the null and void" of society---the uneducated garbage."

The "null and void of society" indeed, such as John Paul Sartre, the French fore-runner of existentialist philosophy, one of the most intelligent thinkers of the century, who called Che "the most complete man of our time". But, then again, he was "uneducated garbage", so he doesn't count.

Other names of supposed "uneducated garbage" that come to mind are president Nasser of Egypt, the American poet Allen Ginsberg, the European intellectual Simone de Beauvoir, Algeria's leader Ben Bella---and that's only the non-commies. Need I go on?

Now Max, let's think before posting blanket, generalizing articles that you haven't even written. I would propose that you find a different medium for "exposing" liberalism and Che. Until then, get off this site.

-Anti Machine

[Hayduke]

Quote: from MaxB on 4:02 am on Nov. 23, 2002
Why do you left wingers have to be so offensive. I'm only pointing out how misinformed you non-productive social deviants are. Che is DEAD and he's going stay dead. There's more to life than admiring a relic of a fail ideology. Then again, all you have to do is look and see the type of individuals who admired Che: "the null and void" of society---the uneducated garbage.


" Then again, all you have to do is look and see the type of individuals who admired Che: "the null and void" of society---the uneducated garbage. "

Ah man come on,

Just like I tought, ou are only searching of the net for articles that match your search terms like " anti commie, I hate commies, fack che" ect.

And when he finally makes an argument on the long replies we gave back to you, you come with a bunch of useless opnions that are based on nothing.

The statement I marked above is actually marked for a reason.
To show that you think you have a so called superiorty to to the people that admired che.

And MaxB wich people are you referring to ? The Cubans ? The socialist today ? I admire the passion and ideas of Ernesto Che Guervara but am I uneducated ?

Your arguments are based on nothing.

And MAXB, please stop posting articles on a board you are actually not interested in. You hate us, we hate you so stop wasting your time here.

Get a life