Self-Proclaimed 'Capitalists' - @ Che-Lives.com

[Ymir]

With this thread I hope to help people on this forum realize that most capitalists have no true interest in capitalism at all. Their actions are driven by their own emotions and not through any kind of rational reason.
The first specimen to examine is the being we know as "Stormin Norman". To truly understand anything we must know its beginnings. And specifically I mean to give a brief history of 'SN' on the Che-Lives.com Community.
He first came here saying that he was some kind of mixed capitalist and socialist. He wanted capitalism but with some restrictions. He was completely rejected by the communists for whatever reason. So he became an a capitalist, or atleast associated himself with capitalists, and began his crusade of verbal attacks against the left. But even with his immense failure to prove the advantages of capitalism to others, he continues to return to the forums.
My analysis of this character is that he is by no means an advocate of true capitalism, he is only using it so that he can attack his rejectors with a basis supported by others in the community. For we can all see, that without his stoic defense of capitalism, he has no excuse to attack anyone. Capitalism vs. Communism has become his own private war in which he can project his own failures and rejection onto another group, which he often classifies as less than human (a typical war-time accusation). The following quote is for the reader's own interperatation.

"...like me, he was relentless in defending his positions, no matter how wrong the views he held."
-Stormin Norman

Our next example is "Capitalist Imperial". Since the first time I became a member of the Community I noticed him. I came to understand that his greatest intention was to be noticed.
'CI' has a formula for posting responses. They are distractionary from the actual content of the original thread, and he intends to change the subject as quickly as possible while confusing and enraging the other posters. He often uses a pro-U.S. attitude to anger the mainly anti-American views of most leftists on Che-Lives. Then he will make illogical and unfounded assumptions about the leftist people themselves:

"Of course, you conveniently leave out what capitalism has done for the world, and how the USA is the most successful nation in world history in so many areas, and in such a short time. "

"Perhaps if you had done a little beter in life you would appreciate that you only get out what you put in."

"Or are you actually just some liberal snot-nose still living at home with mom and pop? Its easy to play armchair revolutionary when you don't pay your own bills, isn't it? "

All of those were said on one post, to the same person, written by 'CI' himself. Those quotes formed the majority of his post, they had very little to do with the actual content of the post he was responding to.
It appears to me, and has since very quickly after I read some of his writings, that Capitalist Imperial, like 'SN', has no factual support of Capitalism, but he is using it to get a rise out of the people. If Che-Lives.com were not Che-Lives, it was A.Smith-Lives.com or some other capitalist community, I am absolutely sure that Capitalist Imperial
would use communism as a tool to upset the capitalists.
This is the evidence to my thesis statement that many self-proclaimed capitalists have no moral or scientific regards to capitalism, but are using it as a tool for their own emotional needs. I am aware of some thought-out writings by both but those are a minority in the equation. The majority of what 'SN' and 'CI' write are completely irrrelevant to proving capitalism or disproving communism. These are the personalities that worsen capitalist reputation, and true communists must not allow their kind into our midst. Even if they call themselves 'communist'...

[American Kid]

Just.......... a few things. And really, I'm not looking for a fight, I just noticed an inconsistency or two and differ a bit here or there.

First, I'm wondering how you know about SN's first posts here if he's a commandante and you've got only two stars....? Hey, maybe you just don't post too often. I don't know. I haven't been here forever.

Secondly, I have serious doubts CI is a closet communist. Granted, I have no doubt some things he posts are done soley to antagonize. I just think your hypothesis that his basic motivation in life is as a spoiler, whatever the situation, is flawed.

And if you're thinking of analying me, well the Carl Everett Center for the Study of Unusually Intense Individuals already beat you to it:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=22&topic=860 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=860)

sorry, dude.
-ak

(Edited by American Kid at 4:42 am on Nov. 12, 2002)


(Edited by American Kid at 4:43 am on Nov. 12, 2002)

[canikickit]

Yeah, I like this post. With regards to SNs quote:

"...like me, he was relentless in defending his positions, no matter how wrong the views he held."

I think he is refering to the other persons views as being wrong, not neccessarily his own, I believe Norm has admitted to being wrong before, although I could be wrong.

I think that the capitalism these two defend is not the capitalism we attack. I think a lot of the time the agree with the ills we are pointing out (agree that they are ills, that is). But choose to ignore the fact that the things are bad and instead say our proposal is bad.

This is where their problem lies, I think.

I think SN is an intelligent guy. Actually, I would like SN to point out some of what he sees as the ills of the world and make some positive dialogue.

I know that I, for one agree with a lot of the thing SN has said on this forum (examples in the "abortion" thread and also "capitalism destroys music").

I know that SN says he finds a thrill in debating with communists, perhaps there would be a thrill to be found in some positive dialogue also?

I think that would be a far better investment of time than trying to show intellectual superiority by posting a complicated chemistry question.

CI just seems to post shit about how America is better than everywhere else. Little more than racism.

[American Kid]

My personal favorite SN "slip-up":

One night he gets into it real bad with I Will Deny You. Finally, Norm starts berating her about her welfare kids she's had by DIFFERENT GUYS.............Now, I kinda have gotten to know her by this point, and she doesn't have ANY kids.

Sooooooooooo, the spy I am (sorry Norm, loyalty's loyalty) I PM her. I think my exact words were, "Stormin Norman just uh................he, uh...............well, uh..........he, uh......"

Two minutes later she's got her response up. She's basically asking him WHAT THE FUCK he's talking about. I guess Norm goes back, sees he fucked up, and apologizes about the whole debacle.

I'm cracking up just writing this.

(No offense, Norm; God knows my track record here isn't "squeaky clean" )

-ak

dedicated to my friend I Will Deny You....................whereever you are........................:(
-ak

(Edited by American Kid at 5:09 am on Nov. 12, 2002)

[kidicarus20]

HAHHAHAAHAHA....

Never before have I seen a post so right on.

You could go deeper, and explain how stormin probably learns about these arguments from free-republic, and how he just spouts out the typical republican party line:
reagan created economic boom
Clinton had no "real" economic boom (right-wingers contradict themselves here, but generally that is a true statement)
The economic boom was because of the republican congress (absolutely ridiculous)
We had to invade nicaragua because we had a mission
USA Is the freeest nation on earth
free-market leads to freer people
democrats= big government republicans=small government

etc... those two use most if not all of those arguments.

And probably they were brought up by republican parents so they were just made to hate and spout out bullshit for arguments. theya re like any other republican on the internet.

Add to the fact that they aren't really capitalists, they are more conservative, which, i guess, "real" capitalists see as a threat. some of the users at "anti-state".com have claimed they "hate" conservatives. Yah right. but some of them are a bit more consistent and are looking for good debate. most aren't there, but theres an older gentlemen there that seems to know what's up.


The only capitalist here who doesn't flame every second is dark capitalist, but he also is a supporter of conservatism, and he doesn't argue much in favor of capitalism mostly makes one line posts, he definitely doesn't flame as much and doesn't talk about "worthless communist scum" all of the time.

[kidicarus20]

Lol.

smith-lives.com. god...
Once i was playing this online game for fun, counter-strike, under the name "Karl Marx" and some kid changed his name to
"adam smith ownz jo0" heh... it was probably stormin. it was kind of funny.

[antieverything]

Well, Adam Smith wasn't the hardcore free-market zealot that the cappies make him out to be. Read some of my Adam Smith quotes on the "great quote" thread!

Ayn Rand, on the other hand...was insane.

[Ymir]

'AK' I didn't intend to say that CI was a closet communist, so I apologize if that is what you read. I was saying that if this forum was mainly capitalist he would pose as a commie to stir people up. Not that he would even think about communism itself.

I have been here since July 2002 i think, I do not post much. But I did see the point in time where the leftists started disliking him and he made all these wild claims about 'If I owned a business, I would not hire leftists, and I would encourage my friends to have the same policy'. And no I don't need to say anything about you because I only needed the two examples (Ci and SN) for the post.

[Capitalist Imperial]

C'mon, Ymir, you can do better than that.

I must thank you for you acknowledgement that some of my posts are relevant, but I disagree that they are the minority. I also assure you that myself and SN are stalwart capitalists, and I would never sell-out America oor capitalism by posing commie.

but, thanks for the post

AK, thanks again for stepping up for me, much love. Even though you are much more moderate (which is cool), I appreciate that we are still allies whwen it comes down to brass tacks.

[American Kid]

Absolutely (my name-sake ;) ).

Anytime. Good to see you back.

I got yours.
-ak

[new democracy]

very interesting ymir(i am serious). i thought you are a lost case after you thread about fascism and fracis. and dark capitalist is absurd. he just come here and praise greed. nothing more. and ci once said "long live capitalism". what a horrible thing to say.

(Edited by new democracy at 9:36 pm on Nov. 13, 2002)

[Mazdak]

Yes, although you made quite some points.. i await your other "essay" involved the use of fascism.

[canikickit]

Stalin was a fascist. All authoritarians are fascist.

[Mazdak]

of course we are :rollseyes:

[Guest]

just thought to bring this truthfull thread back.

[mentalbunny]

I've never read this thread before, but it's pretty interesting. Ymir seems to have a very good idea of what is going on, pity he doesn't post more!

I could blabber on about the difference between conservatism and capitalism but I don't think I can be bothered right now, you probably all know anyway.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 8:27 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
I've never read this thread before, but it's pretty interesting. Ymir seems to have a very good idea of what is going on, pity he doesn't post more!

I could blabber on about the difference between conservatism and capitalism but I don't think I can be bothered right now, you probably all know anyway.



actually, I think it was for the most part inaccurate. both myself and SN have posted several submissions of substance and well thought ideas.

SN is particularly good at factual diagnosis and citing references and sources

I am less of a cut paste man myself, as I am a person of ideas and analysis.

Either way, we are both relevent to this forum, as are all the capitalists

[Socialist Pig]

I have no doubt that Adam Smith would be disgusted by todays "capitalism". His ideal society of many small buyers and sellers has turned into a twisted corporate world.

[Guest]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 8:27 pm on Jan. 29, 2003
Ymir seems to have a very good idea of what is going on, pity he doesn't post more!

I could blabber on about the difference between conservatism and capitalism but I don't think I can be bothered right now, you probably all know anyway.



Hmmm maybe he would have posted more if the "Stalinists" weren't banned.

[Tkinter1]

"I have no doubt that Adam Smith would be disgusted by todays "capitalism". His ideal society of many small buyers and sellers has turned into a twisted corporate world."

Funny how no system seems to work out "ideally".

[Socialist Pig]

Quote: from Tkinter1 on 2:16 am on Jan. 30, 2003
"I have no doubt that Adam Smith would be disgusted by todays "capitalism". His ideal society of many small buyers and sellers has turned into a twisted corporate world."

Funny how no system seems to work out "ideally".

Still, I find it interesting that many capitalists "worship" Adam Smith and yet the support a system that he would be strongly against.

[Tkinter1]

I don't know if people worship it. But i could say the same thing about the Socialist expirements.

I don't see why Smith would be strongley against this Capitalism. Could you elaborate on that?

[Socialist Pig]

Adam smith proposed that a society of small buyers and sellers in order for each buyer/seller to get a fair price for products. He also mentions that in order for everyone to recieve a fair return for labour and capital no one should be large enough to influence the market to a certain degree.

Hoave you noticed the increasing corporate power? Eventually the number of corporations will get fewer and fewer. Monoplies will form and the governments of the world won't be able to stop them.

[Tkinter1]

"Adam smith proposed that a society of small buyers and sellers in order for each buyer/seller to get a fair price for products. He also mentions that in order for everyone to recieve a fair return for labour and capital no one should be large enough to influence the market to a certain degree."

It seems to me that there are the large corporations which basically compete with each other, and there are the smaller local businesses which compete with each other. The people choose whether to buy from the large corps, or the smaller locals. It's not so much the better price but the better product anymore.
The government is twisted up in both of the levels, keeping everything in line(to the best of its ability). That's just how I see it.

"Hoave you noticed the increasing corporate power? Eventually the number of corporations will get fewer and fewer. Monoplies will form and the governments of the world won't be able to stop them. "

Yes I have, but Corporations aren't armies. If it ends up hurting the people that much, they'll do something about it.

[queen of diamonds]

Just taking it back to the original conversation, I'm a capitalist.

Can I get an analysis too?

Just out of curiousity, what do you mean you don't need to say anything about AK? I was under the impression you were trying to make a statement about all capitalists on the board, not just a select few....

[Stormin Norman]

"He first came here saying that he was some kind of mixed capitalist and socialist."-Ymir

You are a liar. Now let's talk about the left and how they dillute and convolute the truth and fabricate lies in order to make their own gliched thinking somehow seem rational. This blatant lie posted by Ymir is an excellent example. It is nowhere near the magnitude of the claim that the U.S. government maliciously gave Saddam biological and chemical weapons, but speaking falsities is the conduct of leftists.

Anyone here knows that I would never make such a claim. Everyone here knows that I hate socialists. Calling me a socialist is slander in my book. You can make fraudulent remarks with respect to me, but that still doesn't change facts. You can lie about my nature, but the truth of yours will remain. You are a piece of filth, no better than Scott Ritter, Jimmy Carter, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Lenin, or Hitler. The only difference is the fact that you are less significant. Your contribution to the world will most likely be miniscule, since you find it necessary to create fiction when reality is too much for you to grasp.

You are precisely the kind of vermin I define in my signature. More useless than garbage, a trash heap is too classy for you. It is no coincidence that you would choose such a degenerate as Rob Zombie for an avatar. Both of your minds appear to have been infected with prions. As your brain turns to mush, no doubt such confusion over the real world will persist. Claiming that I called myself a socialist, find me that quote please. I would love to see you back up your bullshit with one shred of evidence.

Socialist! A charge that I infatically deny! You product of incest, you! You poor lead poisoned fool! You braindamaged creton! I no longer pity your stupidity. I despise it!

[Stormin Norman]

I believe I said something like, "I have to give Paul Wellstone some credit. I should probably say something nice, since the man died. Even though I despised the man, like me, he was relentless in defending his positions, no matter how wrong the views he held."

*****The views he held.********
Like me, he defended his positions relentlessly. Unlike me, his views were wrong. Do you understand now? Do I need to further spell it out for an illiterate audience. What's the problem, Ymir? Does it have to do with the fact that you are incapable of even attempting to refute one of my arguments? I notice the only time you acknowledge me is when you attack me from behind. I have never seen you jump into a legitimate discussion with me. I am becoming convinced it has to do with the fact that you would find it too difficult to follow along.

You disingenuous bastard.

[Tkinter1]

Ymir doesn't even post here anymore I don't think.