Anti-fascist actions

[Pogue]

Your opinions on how to deal with fascists, with justifcations for your chosen tactic(s).
*Edit*Un-direct means a march which wont come face to face with a fascist group/demonstration.

[F9]

All and any tactics i voted because what action we will take depends on the situation.Of course some of the choices arent in the tactics i would use especially the second one!

Fuserg9:star:

[Holden Caulfield]

all obviously, by any means necessary,

although i wouldnt encourage people to vote for a non-left wing party, but i did myself vote for Labour to stop the BNP in my area in the local elections, but this is down to what people consider Labour as these days

[Tower of Bebel]

What's the difference between left-wing party in elections and class struggle?

[Lector Malibu]

By Any Means Necessary

Malcom X

[Tower of Bebel]

With political cartoons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRcBt904OJ0&feature=related :thumbup1:!

[redSHARP]

any tactic. sometimes violence is called for and other times it is not. personally i would love to avoid violence; our liberal "allies" dont have the heart for it, and neither do i sometimes (after some non-political fights i feel bad and end up buying the guy a drink).

[Revolutiondownunder]

Not a great poll. Obviously the answer would be all unless you are a pacifist [which is cool].

[mykittyhasaboner]

all tactics of course. but i think the best way would be to attack them.

[RaiseYourVoice]

In my opinion we need a tactical relation to forms of action. That of course means that violence is acceptable, on the other hand it means that violence should be used FOR A PURPOSE and not as a purpose for itself. That is in my country a major problem of antifa groups, they seem to think that there being violence is a great thing in itself, while missing the point of it.

[Lector Malibu]

In my opinion we need a tactical relation to forms of action. That of course means that violence is acceptable, on the other hand it means that violence should be used FOR A PURPOSE and not as a purpose for itself. That is in my country a major problem of antifa groups, they seem to think that there being violence is a great thing in itself, while missing the point of it.

Though I understand what you are saying, I can totally see why people need to step up there efforts in your country , as there are still wacko fanaticals that worship Nazi Germany and that era..

[RaiseYourVoice]

Though I understand what you are saying, I can totally see why people need to step up there efforts in your country , as there are still wacko fanaticals that worship Nazi Germany and that era..
I did not exclude violence against fash, not even at this time. It's just that in my experience there are to many groups who are happy if bottles and stones randomly hit anything (police, cars, banks) but on the other hand are not able to organise attacks on Nazi shops, Nazi headquarters etc. it seems more like a celebration on demonstrations. Last antifa demo I was at, the "autonomous antifa" was somewhere in the last row, didn't even try to throw stones, but were terribly happy when some people threw unaimed bottles which mostly hit nothing. With the result of course that the people in the first row got it back from the police (us). Okay i have no problem taking a beating for people throwing stones but please. a) aim them b) don't be drunk at fucking demonstrations c) organise people to stand behind me, the first row was the only chain, some people were masked with is an offence at demonstrations etc. but all the people behind us were just messing around instead of being ready to hold us if the police tried to grab us.

The Nazis didn't see any of the protest, peacefull blockades were not antifa enough for some people, the Nazis went home happily cuz they marched undisturbed and let the police to the fighting with the antifa. Now ok we could learn from that mistake and go on. What does our local antifa say? It was the greatest demo since along time since there was "militancy".

[Lector Malibu]

I did not exclude violence against fash, not even at this time. It's just that in my experience there are to many groups who are happy if bottles and stones randomly hit anything (police, cars, banks) but on the other hand are not able to organise attacks on Nazi shops, Nazi headquarters etc. it seems more like a celebration on demonstrations. Last antifa demo I was at, the "autonomous antifa" was somewhere in the last row, didn't even try to throw stones, but were terribly happy when some people threw unaimed bottles which mostly hit nothing. With the result of course that the people in the first row got it back from the police (us). Okay i have no problem taking a beating for people throwing stones but please. a) aim them b) don't be drunk at fucking demonstrations c) organise people to stand behind me, the first row was the only chain, some people were masked with is an offence at demonstrations etc. but all the people behind us were just messing around instead of being ready to hold us if the police tried to grab us.

The Nazis didn't see any of the protest, peacefull blockades were not antifa enough for some people, the Nazis went home happily cuz they marched undisturbed and let the police to the fighting with the antifa. Now ok we could learn from that mistake and go on. What does our local antifa say? It was the greatest demo since along time since there was "militancy".


I agree with this. Antifa needs to focus on direct action on the fash. I'm guess I'm just saying from kinda a personal stance after seeing police snipers at my last rally (that would have dropped any of us in a heartbeat if the situation warranted to them) and the police where clearly more interested in making sure Neo Nazi's where afforded the red carpet so to say, I have no problem with a police widow being smashed out or whatever. As it has been proven time and time again they are just as bad. Yes though, direct focused action makes the most sense.

[communard resolution]

Whatever it takes in a particular situation.

"If it takes a voice, then shout the truth,
if it takes a hand, then hold them back,
if it takes a fist, then strike them down"

Violence is necessary when the fash control the streets, as is the case in many Eastern European cities. But violence on its own is pointless because the fash are just the militant extension of certain ideas prevalent in large sections of the population: that's where political work is required.

No pointless violence against police at demonstrations! Unless you're happy just "playing anarchist" to impress your mates, that is. If you seriously want the revolution to happen, we will eventually need the police and army to side with us.

[redSHARP]

i always felt police and military are comrades, just comrades on the wrong side of the fence. i am not a big violence fan, and i rather not be involved with violence, but a street fight or a bar fight with facist scum is ok to me.:thumbup1:

[professorchaos]

As a pacifist (the only one it seems), the fourth option seems the best to me.

[Mala Tha Testa]

any and all tactics

[Revolutiondownunder]

In my opinion we need a tactical relation to forms of action. That of course means that violence is acceptable, on the other hand it means that violence should be used FOR A PURPOSE and not as a purpose for itself. That is in my country a major problem of antifa groups, they seem to think that there being violence is a great thing in itself, while missing the point of it.


Young rebellious people like violence, its part of what attracts them to causes like antifa.

But I get your point.

[jaffe]

In my opinion we need a tactical relation to forms of action. That of course means that violence is acceptable, on the other hand it means that violence should be used FOR A PURPOSE and not as a purpose for itself. That is in my country a major problem of antifa groups, they seem to think that there being violence is a great thing in itself, while missing the point of it.


that's also the thing that's really annoying me on this forum.

[Holden Caulfield]

^^ if that is aimed at me, i was joking with previous comments,

i do not fetishise violence, or think that violence alone will solve anything

[jaffe]

that's not aimed at you. But sometimes I get the idea that everone on this part of the forum is joking.

[Holden Caulfield]

that's not aimed at you. But sometimes I get the idea that everone on this part of the forum is joking.

its hard to be serious over the internet, for issues such as sounding like a prick or compromising your own security/anonimity, etc

even more so for this forum,

[Malakangga]

all and any tactic was very cool,i think

[Autonome-Antifa]

Its fucking easy.

Fasism is based on Fighting and being the ruff guy. So the only thing they hate is being kicked or defeated by Antifa's as long as there not tuff they will be a shamed then they will fuck off and not go to there demos.

But to aprove that you need a strong Upper and Underground scene.

So go on the street and fight them.

[Autonome-Antifa]

But first i want to know what you guys and girls understand as violence.

Because kicking the shit out of a nazi is self-defence. :D

[Lector Malibu]

Jaffe what is your problem? Since I've been on this forum I have never seen you make anything but cynical , snide remarks especially when this subject comes up.

[Omi]

Its fucking easy.

Fasism is based on Fighting and being the ruff guy. So the only thing they hate is being kicked or defeated by Antifa's as long as there not tuff they will be a shamed then they will fuck off and not go to there demos.

But to aprove that you need a strong Upper and Underground scene.

So go on the street and fight them.


I'm not on one line with this one.

Fascism, in it's core, is a political system. It is not based on fighting or agression, nor masculinity. Nor is it true fascist in it's core is very racist.
Problem is, that fascism breeds the kind of behaviour we are talking about. Just like nationalism isn't racist an sich, but it generates racist sentiments. Being proud of your country will almost always end up in supremacist talking, and in racism. That is the problem, and the roots of this problems lie in fascist theory.

However it is also true, fascists have always used agression and violence in it's path to power. But as proven by Hitler in the night of the long knives, the workers who turn to right wing hooliganism, are to be betrayed in the end. This is why fascism, in theory, is not necessarily violent. It just evokes, and uses it.

To answer the question of the poll, any method or tactic is allowed, but it must be used properly and on the right time. When, like in the Netherlands, the most neo-nazis try to look like decent people, it is a bad turn to start beating them up en masse, compassion will grow. But when nazis go to far, which occurs in the Netherlands to, it may be an option.

It depends on the situation, it is not the case that the general public always turn their backs on violence. Just like when local antifa, football hooligans, and neighbourers, attacked a nazi demo in Amsterdam. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjO-y6JAqC4&feature=related) The majority of the locals cheered and went partying, because the nazis were gone. We actually caught the interest of the general public, though some of us have used violence during the action.

[nvm]

Other: By raising awareness to the communities about the social role of fascism , while using violence only for the self-defence of workers from armed gangs of fascist thugs.
In a far less revolutionary situation we should still raise awareness in the communities about fascism by events , video showings, community events in general. So the fascists would be left without the support of that 10-20% of the society that supports them. Of course there would be some support but it will be miniscule. On the other hand anti-fascism will grow amongst everyday people and thus with the support of the society for us the fascists will be powerless.
I dont support individual terrorism against fascists as it resembles more to "gang fights" a sociel movement against fascism.
Violence should be used by anti fascists as self defence, and preventively only when thh big majority of the community agrees and that requires the work in the community as I described it briefly before.

[Lost In Translation]

I don't think that this should be a face to face battle between communists and fascists. We need to pull the public onto our side. This is important, because no matter what situation you are in, those who are in the center are more favourable to fascism than communism. Have the public on your side first, then deal with the fascists in any possible way.

[jaffe]

thats the same mistake communists made in Germany.

[An archist]

I don't think that this should be a face to face battle between communists and fascists. We need to pull the public onto our side. This is important, because no matter what situation you are in, those who are in the center are more favourable to fascism than communism. Have the public on your side first, then deal with the fascists in any possible way.

I have no idea where you live, but everywhere else, that's bullshit, even ultra-right neoliberal friends of mine are alot more likely to protest against fascists than against communists.

[jaffe]

Jaffe what is your problem? Since I've been on this forum I have never seen you make anything but cynical , snide remarks especially when this subject comes up.

I see this site as a medium where you can learn from each other. Have discussions about various topics. Unfortunatly a lot of times when a topic pops up in this part, I see a lot of tough guy talking. Anti-fascism is street politics and isn't something you only do behind your desk. And I'm not really interested in hearing how bad a Revleftmember wants to beat a nazi up. But I think this thread is a good start for good discussions.

[Holden Caulfield]

I see this site as a medium where you can learn from each other. Have discussions about various topics. Unfortunatly a lot of times when a topic pops up in this part, I see a lot of tough guy talking. Anti-fascism is street politics and isn't something you only do behind your desk. And I'm not really interested in hearing how bad a Revleftmember wants to beat a nazi up. But I think this thread is a good start for good discussions.
start the dicussions then, we are not all sitting behind our desk being armchair avtivists, but in this topic real substantial topics are difficult to strike up,

[Lector Malibu]

I see this site as a medium where you can learn from each other. Have discussions about various topics. Unfortunatly a lot of times when a topic pops up in this part, I see a lot of tough guy talking. Anti-fascism is street politics and isn't something you only do behind your desk. And I'm not really interested in hearing how bad a Revleftmember wants to beat a nazi up. But I think this thread is a good start for good discussions.

Oh okay. That's reasonable. I agree with this completely. One thing to consider though is that alot of the members on this site are pretty young. I don't agree with alot of what is said especially in concerns to "street politics" because I'm someone that has been involved in street politics on many different levels. However I was young once too, so I try and be a little more patient with some members.

I also think that in addition to what you said about the site it's a chance for some of "the older crowd" to share some information as well on things we have experienced.

So I agree discussion is key.

[jaffe]

I'm 18 :blushing:.
But I don't there is only one solution to the problem. We have to take a close look on what kind of people we are dealing with. Some extreme right wing people strive for power through elections and nice suits while having the same agenda as those dumb boneheads on the corner of the street harrasing you because you're a red/immigrant etc. Sometimes they work together.
I don't believe in discussion with violent boneheads and I don't think violent opposing 'expensive suit fascists' will work. EVery group needs a different 'approach'.
I think it's very important to always have contact with the community and explain your actions. But I don't need approval from somebody to take a stand against fascism.
Also it's very important to tell people that they'rent going to benefit from extreme right wing partys, and why not.