Socialist/Communist MYTHS: Let's hear them

[Digitalism]

1. Under socialism/communism YOU HAVE NO DEMOCRACY
2. Communism = poor (I consider this a myth, someone else can elaborate on it) I guess most people who simply LOVE their money interpret "having only what you NEED" as being "poor"
3. Socialism/Communism = Police State. Kind of goes with the first, but I want to make it CLEAR.

you get the drift, whoever replies next with a myth labels: 4, 5, etc.. etc..

[shorelinetrance]

you have too share a tooth brush, because there is no "ownership" of anything.

haha, always brings a chuckle to my face

[Lost In Translation]

I have a few myths on communism/socialism

- All communist states (bad word, but i have no choice) are totalitarian

- In communism, you share EVERYTHING (this one people use on me all the time when they ask for help)

-In communism, you have the general public, who make up 99.9% of the population, and then you have to corrupt government officials, who make up the rest, and are extremely rich.

I don't know if these are legitimate myths or not, but that's up to you to decide.

[Mala Tha Testa]

again on the tooth brush thing, my world history teacher said, "if you earn an A in a class, would you want to share that A with lazy slob that doesn't do any work? because that's what it'd be like under a Socialist/Communist society." i chuckled as well.

i just can't think of any right now, i'll edit my post if i do...

[Digitalism]

Please label your myths with numbers like I did, so it's easier to read and reply to..not to mention KEEP TRACK.

I labeled mine 1,2,3...so the next person continues with 4,5,6. and so on..

Or if you're too lazy, can mods edit those previous ones?

[nvm]

4. if you are late for work you go to a gulag
5.if you have the same mustache with stalin you go to a gulag
6. everyone is equal

[Incendiarism]

7. No competition would lead to stagnation
8. People will starve

[Red_or_Dead]

9. There are communist states (refering to the people who believe that we believe that countries like N.Korea have already achieved a proper communist society).

[Q]

Everyone has equal pay
Communism can never work because humans are naturally selfish

[KaubanProcs]

10) "You want to live as a poor farmer like the Communists in North Korea?"
11) Communism takes away personal freedoms!

[Pogue]

From a discussion last night

In Communism capitalists are murdered for being capitalists

I told the guy that in a true communist world, if someone wanted to practice capitalism, they wouldn't be allowed to in the communist commune, they would be asked to leave and do it elsewhere if they wanted too. He said this is murder because your forcing someone out for their opinions. He said its totalitarian murder.

What do comrades think?

[Red_or_Dead]

I told the guy that in a true communist world, if someone wanted to practice capitalism, they wouldn't be allowed to in the communist commune, they would be asked to leave and do it elsewhere if they wanted too. He said this is murder because your forcing someone out for their opinions. He said its totalitarian murder.


Ask him what should a normal society do with killers, child molestors, rapists, ect. then accuse him of totalitarian murder yourself.

[Fedorov]

Ask him what should a normal society do with killers, child molestors, rapists, ect. then accuse him of totalitarian murder yourself.

Hah, very well put.

I think its been stated but I always come across that Communism is only good on paper.

[trivas7]

1. Communism is social engineering, you can't change human nature.

[Kropotesta]

Leftists don't want people to have nice things

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I think its been stated but I always come across that Communism is only good on paper.
My usual answer to that is: "Really? So tell me, what does communism look like on paper? Do you actually know what you're criticizing?"

[Q]

From a discussion last night

In Communism capitalists are murdered for being capitalists

I told the guy that in a true communist world, if someone wanted to practice capitalism, they wouldn't be allowed to in the communist commune, they would be asked to leave and do it elsewhere if they wanted too. He said this is murder because your forcing someone out for their opinions. He said its totalitarian murder.

What do comrades think?
Actually, it wouldn't even need to come to that. Wanting capitalism in a communist society makes as much sense as wanting feudalism in our current society. Who wants landlords and be a peasant? No one. Why not? Because capitalism has brought us a much higher standard of living overall. Besides, the agrarian based feudal economy can't possibly compete with industrial capitalism.

In a communist society, who wants bosses and be a worker? No one. Why not? Because communism again brings a much higher standard of living. Also, what profit is there to be made in a society of superabundance? Exactly: none at all. Capitalism can't possibly compete with communism.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

We live under beds.:lol:

More here:

http://marxmyths.org/index.php

[Mala Tha Testa]

We live under beds. :lol:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[The Intransigent Faction]

The North Korea one really irks me because apparently the CPC;ML ("Communist Party of Canada; Marxist-Leninist") actually does support North Korea.
In any case..let's see..what have I heard that hasn't been listed already...
1. "In a Communist society, when one person suffers famine, whole communities have to suffer because nobody has enough instead of at least a few."

[BIG BROTHER]

here's another one

communists are only lazy people who don't want to work.

[Bright Banana Beard]

Communist = Authoritarian Socialism (According to my economic book)
Communist = super high tech military that shoot deserter
Communist = The State\ In (Communist state), (item(s)) OWN(s) YOU!

[Psy]

That communism = handing over production to a bourgeois state. Basically the argument that the bourgeoisie state has not helped workers any more then the bourgeoisie being used as a argument against communism.

[mikelepore]

"Under capitalism, no business would ever think of providing the public with poor quality products or services, or using misleading advertising, because they know that, if they did that, they would automatically lose all of their customers and they would go bankrupt. But under socialism industry wouldn't be so eager to make consumers happy."

"Under capitalism, employers are dedicated to giving employees the opportunity to fully express their own individuality and creativity. But under socialism the workplace would focus only on material things."

"Under capitalism the employer is desperate to hire you, the unique individual, and the employer will always bends over backwards to give you a fabulous deal in salary and benefits, and would never treat any employee with disrespect. But under socialism you are just one of many workers."

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

My history teacher said that it would be socialism/communism if he added together everyone's grade in the class and then divided that number by the number of students. He explained that the resultant grade, about a D, would be the grade everyone received. "Would you really want that?" he asked.

My response was: "Grades are not a finite resource. As the teacher, you have the ability to give us all A's. There is no limit to how high everyone's grade can be and therefor, the resource, grades, would be divided equally to ensure that everyone had a high percentage."

We nearly had revolution there as my entire class turned against my teacher.

[Q]

My history teacher said that it would be socialism/communism if he added together everyone's grade in the class and then divided that number by the number of students. He explained that the resultant grade, about a D, would be the grade everyone received. "Would you really want that?" he asked.

My response was: "Grades are not a finite resource. As the teacher, you have the ability to give us all A's. There is no limit to how high everyone's grade can be and therefor, the resource, grades, would be divided equally to ensure that everyone had a high percentage."

We nearly had revolution there as my entire class turned against my teacher.
That's great :lol:

[rampantuprising]

how about this one:

11. Communists are "evil" because they don't believe in God.

i run into this one verrrrrrrrrrry frequently

[trivas7]

2) You can only plan what you can control and a planned society has, it seems, to be a strictly controlled society. No plausible model allowing a tolerable amount of freedom has ever been described.

[mykittyhasaboner]

12. the state kills you, if you say something bad about them.
13. the state kills you if you dont work
14. in theory every thing works, but in practice everything ends up bad because its a misleading ideology, and is really only meant to give the state ultimate power.

[mikelepore]

Here's my version in response to your history teacher.

Socialism: Mary studied, so give an A to Mary.

Capitalism: Mary studied, so give an A to George -- because of the family that he was born into.

[Psy]

Here's my version in response to your history teacher.

Socialism: Mary studied, so give an A to Mary.

Capitalism: Mary studied, so give an A to George -- because of the family that he was born into.


More like.

Socialism: Mary studied, so give an A to Mary.

Capitalism: Marry bought an A from the teacher.

[professorchaos]

My dad: "Hitler was a socialist."

[Chapter 24]

"Communism doesn't work because all of a sudden the profit incentive would be lost and workers would become lazy because everything is handed to them."

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

Let it be known that all these 'myths' are merely resultant from the supposed 'implementation of socialism/communism' in countries like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, etc.

If anyone generating these myths actually studied socialism/communism they would find how very wrong they are and that these countries that become stereotyped as socialist or communist are actually nothing but blatant hypocrisy.

Let us remember that the Soviet Union regarded itself as both a 'socialist country' and a 'democracy.'

The west has largely rejected the idea of the Soviet Union being a 'democracy' because, frankly, it was visibly repressive. (Whereas capitalist democracy uses covert measures to give the illusion of it being a democracy while it is really nothing of the sort.)

On the other hand, capitalists embrace the idea of it being socialist or communist because the ruling classes have a vested interest in misrepresenting such words.

[trivas7]

Let it be known that all these 'myths' are merely resultant from the supposed 'implementation of socialism/communism' in countries like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, etc.

While what you say is true, many are rooted in the long history of the Western philosophic tradition. Plato and Thomas More, e.g., were speculating re the nature of man & society long before the Russian Revolution.

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

Yeah, but, most people that I encounter are far more familiar with the Soviet Union and other pseudo-socialist states than they are with the works of Plato or Thomas More. That's kind of out of their spectrum of education.

[Psy]

Yeah, but, most people that I encounter are far more familiar with the Soviet Union and other pseudo-socialist states than they are with the works of Plato or Thomas More. That's kind of out of their spectrum of education.

Do they know the context of the Soviet Union? Do they know that under Lenin Russia was invaded by of every imperialist power on Earth? That the rise of Stalin resulted in the Bolsheviks being purged (that kinds suggests a difference of options)? That the inhuman cost of industrialization under Stalin was not really that much worse then that of Peter the Great (many workers died in the building of Saint Petersburg)? That once the Soviet Union industrialized the situation for workers did relatively improve?

[Wake Up]

"Communism will never work because capitalism is the way the world works and always has done"

A quick history lesson sorts that one out

Also...

"Communism won't work because everyone is competitive and dog eat dog..."

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

Do they know the context of the Soviet Union? Do they know that under Lenin Russia was invaded by of every imperialist power on Earth? That the rise of Stalin resulted in the Bolsheviks being purged (that kinds suggests a difference of options)? That the inhuman cost of industrialization under Stalin was not really that much worse then that of Peter the Great (many workers died in the building of Saint Petersburg)? That once the Soviet Union industrialized the situation for workers did relatively improve?
Actually, they know absolutely nothing of the sort about the Soviet Union.

I usually get the response "Stalin was a socialist," whenever I say I'm a socialist.

I once, jokingly, of course, replied, "Yeah, and who is he?" They couldn't seem to figure that out.

[communard resolution]

- All communist states (bad word, but i have no choice) are totalitarian

The problem is: so far all of them have been to some extent.

-
In communism, you have the general public, who make up 99.9% of the population, and then you have to corrupt government officials, who make up the rest, and are extremely rich.

This was definitely the case in Poland, where I spent my childhood. I suspect it wasn't much different in other Eastern Block countries, so these myths are based on communism's track record so far.

Exception: Yugoslavia had a good standard of living for everyone and was relatively liberal when it came to freedom of speech.

[redSHARP]

i think my favorite myth, which if mentioned before i am sorry, but it has to be:
communists want to take everybodies land and property and give it to the poor.

i respond with, "what if you are actually that poor person who would benefit under such a system?"

then again i dont recall land taking as a major program, i do recall land reform, but not taking.

[Red_or_Dead]

Exception: Yugoslavia had a good standard of living for everyone and was relatively liberal when it came to freedom of speech.

No and no. Freedom of speech was very limited (specialy prior to 1970s), and the living standard was far below that of the western countries. While it was certainly better in many cases than the Warsaw pact countries (and the succesor states), Yugoslavia was definatly not a country that could be put forward as a good example of a thriving workers democracy.

I think that its about time we accept that there actualy were no such examples.

[Comrade B]

12? There is only one type of communist. We all love Stalin, Mao, Trotsky, Fidel, Chavez, and every other person to declare themselves a communist in history.

13? Communism is dead

14? All communists love countries that have leaders which declare themselves communist.

[Dr Mindbender]

15. If you love communism so much why don't you go and live in a communist country!

I mean wtf? :confused:

[communard resolution]

No and no. Freedom of speech was very limited (specialy prior to 1970s), and the living standard was far below that of the western countries. While it was certainly better in many cases than the Warsaw pact countries (and the succesor states), Yugoslavia was definatly not a country that could be put forward as a good example of a thriving workers democracy.


I'm surprised and sorry to hear that. What was lacking in YU as far as standard of living?

This runs contrary to all I've heard from a lot of people who lived there back then.

Poles who could afford going on holidays to Yugoslavia (of which there weren't many) could barely believe the standard of living down there.

[Red_or_Dead]

I'm surprised and sorry to hear that. What was lacking in YU as far as standard of living?

This runs contrary to all I've heard from a lot of people who lived there back then.

Poles who could afford going on holidays to Yugoslavia (of which there weren't many) could barely believe the standard of living down there.

Well, not exactly contrary. From what I gather from older people (as I was little more than a baby when the country fell apart), they are nostalgic for things like social equality, low crime rates and the fact that everyone had equal oportunities in life. As far as standard goes, it was way below the west, as I already pointed out.

I dont know how Poles felt about Yugoslavia, but I guess that their impression of it was very similar to the impression that Yugoslavs had when they went shopping in Italy and Austria, or going to work in Germany. In the areas of Austria and Italy that are close to the border, there used to be loads of shopping centers that were there primarily for Yugoslavs, who went there for goods that were both cheaper and of better quality, than those that could be found here.

Then there was inflation in the 1980s, when everyone with a bit of sense had to change all their savings from Dinars to foreign currencies, which were not legaly for sale, but could only be acquired on the black market.

That said, Im guessing that there were still more positive things about it than could be found for any of the succesor states, but since I havent really been there, I can only tell you what I was told.

And I think Im kinda derailing the thread here. If you want to continue the disccusion, I think its best we make another thread.

[Psy]

And I think Im kinda derailing the thread here. If you want to continue the disccusion, I think its best we make another thread.
Created thread Living Standards of Eastern Europe (http://www.revleft.com/vb/living-standards-eastern-t82658/index.html) so you can continue the discussion.