punisa
23rd June 2008, 21:52
Hello again comrades,
This will probably be somewhat controversial thread, but our duty as modern leftists is to open such right? :thumbup1:
We are all aware of recent fascist uprisings in Europe - Germany, Italy, Croatia (and some other parts of former Yugoslavia), ex Soviet countries (especially Russia).
If we agree that fascism in the first half of 20st was endorsed by middle and higher bourgeois for its distinct purposes that eventually led to their fatal loss (end of WWII).
Today again we have neo-nazi/fasci/ustashi ideologies springing up, but this time majority of its supporters are the working class.
Ok, before you accuse me - this is THE working class, they still go on strikes and demonstrations - if they think it will somewhat improve their current life standards, but overall ideology is very nationalistic and extreme right.
We are actually seeing a huge switch in mindsets - for example: analysing statistical data for recent party elections in many European countries, we see that the majority of their voting body consists of urban middle class people (workers and small entrepreneurs), while majority of country-side and lower working class (industrial and such) vote for right wing parties or nationalist parties. If fascism/nazism was legal, many of those would probably vote for them !
Can you help us all explain how in the world did this come to be?? :blink:
Socialism/communism is always thought as a working class struggle, but reading many earlier works just leads me to numerous contradictions about current/modern situations.
In what way should we adjust our ideas to be feasible in today's environment? I'm NOT suggesting that we should all become reformists, but we need to be aware of critical changes developing inside the working class.
On the other hand, revolution is impossible without the consent of the working class. Agree? I guess you should, but maybe someone has a revolutionary idea how to bypass this "critical mass" component.
To summarize, I am hungry for some crucial knowledge as to why the hell would working class man lean into nationalism and worse?
Maybe lack of knowledge? We must remember that back in 1920's there were many socialist/worker/communist newspapers being published, today this is very scarce.
And to touch upon the bourgeoisie - what does make a higher class turn to socialism and how can we work on that? Are humanist ideas strong enough to turn some of the higher class to our side?
I know some personal examples, that is why I ask.
Marx said: "working class has got nothing to loose except its chains", this is very true. Does it build up to the fact that we see very few upper class citizens become true socialists (they HAVE something to loose, and are chain-free)?
A name that pops to my mind now is of course Ernesto Che Guevera.
This is kinda brief, hope we'll get the chance to elaborate on this.
This will probably be somewhat controversial thread, but our duty as modern leftists is to open such right? :thumbup1:
We are all aware of recent fascist uprisings in Europe - Germany, Italy, Croatia (and some other parts of former Yugoslavia), ex Soviet countries (especially Russia).
If we agree that fascism in the first half of 20st was endorsed by middle and higher bourgeois for its distinct purposes that eventually led to their fatal loss (end of WWII).
Today again we have neo-nazi/fasci/ustashi ideologies springing up, but this time majority of its supporters are the working class.
Ok, before you accuse me - this is THE working class, they still go on strikes and demonstrations - if they think it will somewhat improve their current life standards, but overall ideology is very nationalistic and extreme right.
We are actually seeing a huge switch in mindsets - for example: analysing statistical data for recent party elections in many European countries, we see that the majority of their voting body consists of urban middle class people (workers and small entrepreneurs), while majority of country-side and lower working class (industrial and such) vote for right wing parties or nationalist parties. If fascism/nazism was legal, many of those would probably vote for them !
Can you help us all explain how in the world did this come to be?? :blink:
Socialism/communism is always thought as a working class struggle, but reading many earlier works just leads me to numerous contradictions about current/modern situations.
In what way should we adjust our ideas to be feasible in today's environment? I'm NOT suggesting that we should all become reformists, but we need to be aware of critical changes developing inside the working class.
On the other hand, revolution is impossible without the consent of the working class. Agree? I guess you should, but maybe someone has a revolutionary idea how to bypass this "critical mass" component.
To summarize, I am hungry for some crucial knowledge as to why the hell would working class man lean into nationalism and worse?
Maybe lack of knowledge? We must remember that back in 1920's there were many socialist/worker/communist newspapers being published, today this is very scarce.
And to touch upon the bourgeoisie - what does make a higher class turn to socialism and how can we work on that? Are humanist ideas strong enough to turn some of the higher class to our side?
I know some personal examples, that is why I ask.
Marx said: "working class has got nothing to loose except its chains", this is very true. Does it build up to the fact that we see very few upper class citizens become true socialists (they HAVE something to loose, and are chain-free)?
A name that pops to my mind now is of course Ernesto Che Guevera.
This is kinda brief, hope we'll get the chance to elaborate on this.