There is no difference - Between Corporate America Now and S

[Exploited Class]

I watched a pretty good film East West. It is in French and Russian, with English subtitles. Anyway it is an anti-communist/stalinist film, it makes Russia under stalin rule look dark and bleak at best. What I found when looking at it is no difference between what we in America live in today.

They had kids with military type clothing to brainwash them, we have the boy scouts that do the same thing.

They had work conditions that were bad for your health, we have the same thing here. At my job we had to get the government involved to do air quality checks because the company wouldn't.

They had workers propaganda flags everywhere at work. We have those at my job, along with current customer satisfaction reports between the teams. We have signs like, "Your company is working hard for you." or "You know your #1 with us."

If you weren't doing well one of the party leaders said, "I don't want to tell the people upstairs that." When we complain to our boss he replies with, "I don't want to tell the guys upstairs that."

I was reprimended at my job and questioned harshly because I was talking about unions on my break. My boss threatened me with my job. They threatened people in the movie as well.

They had people watching them over their shoulders, at work I have other co-workers checking over my shoulder ready to tell or complain if I do something wrong. Making up for the missing worker.

They had party members that got to use nice places, eat well and do things the average people couldn't. We have the owners of our companies who get to go places and do things that none of us can.

They didn't have free speech, we don't have free speech.

I don't see any difference, just that our propaganda works, is less obvious and holds a different carrot in front of the working mule.

[Tkinter1]

"They had kids with military type clothing to brainwash them, we have the boy scouts that do the same thing."

yeah helping old ladies cross the street and giving food to the poor, ITs A BrAiN wAsH. I was in boy scouts, the never mentioned the military....

"They had work conditions that were bad for your health, we have the same thing here."

yeah except people here can LEAVE their jobs and find better ones. and its waaay better here than it was in Russia. And it continues to get better.

"At my job we had to get the government involved to do air quality checks because the company wouldn't."

yeah and do you think Stalin would of gotten involved? You got help bottom line, case closed.


They had workers propaganda flags everywhere at work. We have those at my job,"

Then dont read them. Even though i doubt they are EVERY WHERE, or even there at that.

"along with current customer satisfaction reports between the teams."
Customer satisfaction... how horrible.



"We have signs like, "Your company is working hard for you." or "You know your #1 with us." "

GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!!! IT MUST SO HARD FOR YOU!!!

"If you weren't doing well one of the party leaders said, "I don't want to tell the people upstairs that." When we complain to our boss he replies with, "I don't want to tell the guys upstairs that." "

and.... just becuase your scared up the man upstairs. Maybe if you did your job well, they would have nothing to complain about.

"I was reprimended at my job and questioned harshly because I was talking about unions on my break."

Thats an overexageration guaranteed. And i bet your a constant problem at work. Complaining about everything like a four year old.

"My boss threatened me with my job. They threatened people in the movie as well."

The resemblance is UNCANNY!!!

"They had people watching them over their shoulders, at work I have other co-workers checking over my shoulder ready to tell or complain if I do something wrong. Making up for the missing worker."

Then do your job right and well.

"They had party members that got to use nice places, eat well and do things the average people couldn't. We have the owners of our companies who get to go places and do things that none of us can."

AWWWWW. Then EXCEL and get the precious dinners and extras.

"They didn't have free speech, we don't have free speech."

hm. thats a lie...

"I don't see any difference, just that our propaganda works, is less obvious and holds a different carrot in front of the working mule."

You've offended me with this garbage. You compare millions of civlian deaths, unbarable oppression, food shortages, and everything else that made Russia horrible with you not getting a dinner invite. Or being reprimanded for not working hard.

Your a joke!

[KickMcCann]

exploitedclass:

I couldn't agree with you more. When I was in school and would see all the people walking around in Gap, Nautica, and Ambercombie&finch clothing; I was reminded of Soviet citizens marching in military parades in their military uniforms. When I would see the "popular" kids ostricizing and attacking young outcasts, I'm reminded of the show trials and attacks on Stalin's political opponents. When I drive down the street and see giant billboards with automobile advertisements and giant images of newscasters for the big media industries, I'm reminded of giant pictures of Stalin everywhere in Russia.
Yup, the only difference between the totalitarian Stalinists and the totalitarian Corporations is the ideology they hide behind.

[Tkinter1]

What a good imagination!

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 4:20 am on Nov. 6, 2002)

[Iepilei]

like I've said... if you can't attack the thought attack the thinker, eh Tkinter?

[Exploited Class]

Something else to keep in mind, one of the people watching the movie with me noticed, "Everybody is wearing the same thing. There is no individuality back then."

Yes, because at a corporate office you get a whole tie (so long as it isn't too loud) to show off your individuality? Oh and the piercings and the colored hair is okay too? No it isn't conformity.

[American Kid]

How don't we have freedom of speech?

We absolutely do. Jesus..........
*shakes head*
-AK

[American Kid]

And, btw, I want to second everything in Thinker's brilliant responses to your whining, exploited class.

And Kick McCann, your post is absurd at best. "popular kids" and "outcasts." What is this, a fuckin' episode of "DeGrassi High"? Jesus, grow up.........

You want the GOVERNMENT to solve the AGE-OLD problem of adolescent growing pains........? Jesus, grow up, dude.
-AK

[Stormin Norman]

Is that a picture of Osama Bin Laden in your avatar? It would not surprise me considering how un-American you seem to be. I will not respond further because your notions of reality do not deserve acknowledgment. A couple of dipshits we have here, namely Kid McDopus, the nation's poor old exploitedclass.

[KickMcCann]

No Stormin Moron, that is a picture of Ahmed Shah Massoud, the only one in Afghanistan who ever truly fought for democracy and human rights. He first fought th Soviets, then he fought the Whabbi's, Al Queda, and the Taliban. And he fought them alone, without any help from the "freedom loving" American government. He was asassinated by Al Queda 2 days before 9/11. Before 9/11, he asked the American government for help in fighting the Taliban and bringing democracy and peace to Afghanistan, but instead, the US Gov't turned it's back on him and supported the Taliban. Before 9/11, the US Gov't couldn't care less about Afghanistan or the quality of life of the people there. He was a Muslim, but a very liberal one, like the pro-democracy reformists in Iran.
I'm pro-freedom, pro-rights, pro-American people. And I believe in the ideals under which the US was founded. But I hate the beauracratic, currupt, kleptocratic, hypocritical people that control the US Government. A government that would rather see people suffer under tyranny and oppression than to loose a couple million dollars in oil profits. They don't care about the red, white and blue; they care about the almighty green paper.

btw, Popular kids and outcasts is a generalized reference to the instillment of classist values in the minds of the young.

Also, here is a copy of the letter Massoud sent to the US Government, more or less predicting the 9/11 attacks if the US didn't destroy the Taliban before then:


Message to the People of the United States of America

From Ahmad Shah Massoud. Oct. 8th, 1998

I send this message to you today on behalf of the freedom and peace-loving people of Afghanistan, the Mujahedeen freedom fighters who resisted and defeated Soviet communism, the men and women who are still resisting oppression and foreign hegemony and, in the name of more than one and a half million Afghan martyrs who sacrificed their lives to uphold some of the same values and ideals shared by most Americans and Afghans alike. This is a crucial and unique moment in the history of Afghanistan and the world, a time when Afghanistan has crossed yet another threshold and is entering a new stage of struggle and resistance for its survival as a free nation and independent state.

I have spent the past 20 years, most of my youth and adult life, alongside my compatriots, at the service of the Afghan nation, fighting an uphill battle to preserve our freedom, independence, right to self-determination and dignity. Afghans fought for God and country, sometime alone, at other times with the support of the international community. Against all odds, we, meaning the free world and Afghans, halted and checkmated Soviet expansionism a decade ago. But the embattled people of my country did not savor the fruits of victory. Instead they were thrust in a whirlwind of foreign intrigue, deception, great-gamesmanship and internal strife. Our country and our noble people were brutalized, the victims of misplaced greed, hegemonic designs and ignorance. We Afghans erred too. Our shortcomings were as a result of political innocence, inexperience, vulnerability, victimization, bickering and inflated egos. But by no means does this justify what some of our so-called Cold War allies did to undermine this just victory and unleash their diabolical plans to destroy and subjugate Afghanistan.

Today, the world clearly sees and feels the results of such misguided and evil deeds. South-Central Asia is in turmoil, some countries on the brink of war. Illegal drug production, terrorist activities and planning are on the rise. Ethnic and religiously-motivated mass murders and forced displacements are taking place, and the most basic human and women’s rights are shamelessly violated. The country has gradually been occupied by fanatics, extremists, terrorists, mercenaries, drug Mafias and professional murderers. One faction, the Taliban, which by no means rightly represents Islam, Afghanistan or our centuries-old cultural heritage, has with direct foreign assistance exacerbated this explosive situation. They are unyielding and unwilling to talk or reach a compromise with any other Afghan side.

Unfortunately, this dark accomplishment could not have materialized without the direct support and involvement of influential governmental and non-governmental circles in Pakistan. Aside from receiving military logistics, fuel and arms from Pakistan, our intelligence reports indicate that more than 28,000 Pakistani citizens, including paramilitary personnel and military advisers are part of the Taliban occupation forces in various parts of Afghanistan. We currently hold more than 500 Pakistani citizens including military personnel in our POW camps. Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas but are instigated from Pakistan, thus forming the inter-connecting angles of an evil triangle. For many Afghans, regardless of ethnicity or religion, Afghanistan, for the second time in one decade, is once again an occupied country.

Let me correct a few fallacies that are propagated by Taliban backers and their lobbies around the world. This situation over the short and long-run, even in case of total control by the Taliban, will not be to anyone’s interest. It will not result in stability, peace and prosperity in the region. The people of Afghanistan will not accept such a repressive regime. Regional countries will never feel secure and safe. Resistance will not end in Afghanistan, but will take on a new national dimension, encompassing all Afghan ethnic and social strata.

The goal is clear. Afghans want to regain their right to self-determination through a democratic or traditional mechanism acceptable to our people. No one group, faction or individual has the right to dictate or impose its will by force or proxy on others. But first, the obstacles have to be overcome, the war has to end, just peace established and a transitional administration set up to move us toward a representative government.

We are willing to move toward this noble goal. We consider this as part of our duty to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence and fanaticism. But the international community and the democracies of the world should not waste any valuable time, and instead play their critical role to assist in any way possible the valiant people of Afghanistan overcome the obstacles that exist on the path to freedom, peace, stability and prosperity.

Effective pressure should be exerted on those countries who stand against the aspirations of the people of Afghanistan. I urge you to engage in constructive and substantive discussions with our representatives and all Afghans who can and want to be part of a broad consensus for peace and freedom for Afghanistan.

With all due respect and my best wishes for the government and people of the United States,

Ahmad Shah Massoud

[redstar2000]

KM & EC are quite right, of course, and denouncing them as whiners, fuckups, and teenagers (the horror!) just shows the mental emptiness of their critics.

How empty? Well, how's this? 90% + of all congressional districts in the U.S. are ONE-PARTY districts...not up to (or down to) Stalin's level yet, but we're getting there. ANY incumbent political office-holder in the U.S. is virtually guaranteed re-election if he/she wants it...and that IS approaching Stalin's level.

Freedom of speech? The government can now decide all by itself without judicial oversight that your "speech" is an incitement to or in support of "terrorism" (they get to define what THAT means) and can imprison you for as long as they like without ever charging you with any
crime, allowing you no contact with your family, attorneys, etc. Joe may have done that, but I don't think he ever bragged about it, or called it "freedom".

If Stalin had his gulags, the U.S. has its animal cages at the (illegal) U.S. Naval Base in Cuba; those poor bastards could trade some stories with Stalin's prisoners. If there are no American citizens there yet, I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

It seems to me that the defenders of capitalism on this board are rather wimpy; you need to emulate Fadethebutcher on The Phora. GLORY in your greed and your imperial atrocities. Tell us "mindless left wing scum" how you look forward to seeing us cleaning latrines in concentration camps.

I know you believe in your hearts that you have a "God"-given right to rule the world; proclaim it OUT LOUD.

If capitalists and pro-capitalists were really honest, communist revolution would be a piece of cake!

[Tkinter1]

"Freedom of speech? The government can now decide all by itself without judicial oversight that your "speech" is an incitement to or in support of "terrorism" (they get to define what THAT means) and can imprison you for as long as they like without ever charging you with any
crime, allowing you no contact with your family, attorneys, etc. Joe may have done that, but I don't think he ever bragged about it, or called it "freedom". "

There is a big difference between having a peacefull rally against a policy or action, and saying you're going to blow something up. Im sure your definition of terrorism isn't that far off from the US's.

"If Stalin had his gulags, the U.S. has its animal cages at the (illegal) U.S. Naval Base in Cuba; those poor bastards could trade some stories with Stalin's prisoners. If there are no American citizens there yet, I'm sure it's only a matter of time."

So for right now we can safely say there nothing alike becuase there are no US citizens there.


"It seems to me that the defenders of capitalism on this board are rather wimpy; you need to emulate Fadethebutcher on The Phora. GLORY in your greed and your imperial atrocities. Tell us "mindless left wing scum" how you look forward to seeing us cleaning latrines in concentration camps. "

I know you believe in your hearts that you have a "God"-given right to rule the world; proclaim it OUT LOUD.

Where did u get all this from? Is this a joke?

"If capitalists and pro-capitalists were really honest, communist revolution would be a piece of cake!"
I hope you don't really believe that..

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 2:19 am on Nov. 7, 2002)

[Stormin Norman]

Kid McCann,

To be honest with you, I had a sneeking suspicion that Massoud was pictured on your avartar. I couldn't tell because of the size, and that's why I asked. I also respected that man. He would have been a great leader for Afghanistan, because he would have had the balls to do what was right. However, I think there would have been more attempts made on his life than there have been on Karzai's (spelling?). Never the less, I am surprised that you hold this man with such high esteem. I would have pegged you for a UBL supporter.

[American Kid]

I second that.

Massoud was a good man.
-AK