Capitalism the Clasist society - Fuck it man!

[Communist Chris]

Capitalism today has tought us that you should not recognize someone by the type of person you are if not by the amount of money they have. Capitalism is also the father of greed. Capitalism has destroyed society. You don't see a rich guy hanging out with a poor hobo, of course not you see him making fun of him. Also in a quite littel neighborhood you see people jelous of each other because of their material possesions. That sucks! people should be recognized by the type of person they are and not by their social class! I say fuck capitalism! Esa Jopo todo tuanis?

[Mazdak]

Ah.... and they talk about stalinsoldiers.

Stop the ranting dude, your making us look bad.

[American Kid]

The argument that poor people don't hang out with rich people s-t-u-p-i-d.

Seriously, cut it. Because I'll blow you out of the fucking water, dude. I'm living, WALKING proof of just how rediculous and inaccurate that wive's tale is.

I'm poorer than poor. I've been all my life. I was raised on Welfare and subsidized housing. YET, a good number of my closest friends happen to be filthy fucking rich.

Read that, a few times if you need to: FILTH FUCKING RICH.

My good (very good) friend Monica, her parent's parents ran banks in CT. She's fucking loaded. Shopping is what she does in her spare time. Seriously, it's a recreational activity to her. I should let you read her e mails to me. It's disgusting.

But she's one of my best friends in the whole world and I lover her a lot. She recently helped me through a particularly nasty little bout of depression.

My other friend Melissa, her dad runs a real estate firm. They sell water front property. She's so rich it's disgusting. She's also one of the sweetest, most selfless people I've ever met. She's an amazing person.

Despite how much money "daddy" makes.

And I'm not just pulling these names out of a fucking hat, brah. These are good, wonderful friends of mine. I think it's ludicrous every time someone pulls the "rich people don't associate with poor people" routine. Because it's without merit, and indicitave of an ignorance comparable to the exact one the accusation makes itself to begin with.

So relax, dude.
-AK

[vox]

I think CC has avalid point. As Marx pointed out, capitalism leaves nothing between people but a cash nexus, and this relationship defines human society. We even have a word to describe the geographical area of the poor: the ghetto.

Despite AK's oh so very "Metropolitan" (I'm assuming he'll get the movie reference) example, the fact is that economic strata by and large determines social strata wherever capitalist social relations are in place. One can look at the sociological data to verify this. We know, for example, that the vast majority of people marry people very much like themselves economically and socially. Why? Because these people tend to live together, in clusters. Do people from Specific Whites, oops, I mean Pacific Heights socialize with people from across the bay? So much for the melting pot.

vox

[RedCeltic]

I've been working alot lately on a political campain and have noticed that republicans and democrats both talk as if they know the poor personally and therefore know what's best for them.

A good example of this is when Josh a local green candidate for state assembally said that we need more bus service to the poor sections in Albany, the democrat said that there would be more funding for buses if they where used more.

The man obviously hasn't ever used the buses here in Albany for 75% of the time I ride the bus (and I live in the ghetto) there's standing room only.

So tell me AK... you live in a nation where non living things (corperations) have more rights than people. Where corperations not only make more money that living people, but have more say in the government because of it.

These corperations, and the people that run them are detatched from those that earn the wealth for them.

Unless I walk into my favorite bar one day and see Governer George Pataki sitting on a bar stool, I say you're full of it.

[Stormin Norman]

I am not incredibily rich, and I would not hang out with a barfed up old hobo. The diseases that they carry prevent me from wanting to get close enough to engage in conversation. Kidding aside,, I have talked to these guys and argued with them about their victim mentality. Trust me, most of them are not worth the time. Conversations with bums usually go like this:

Me: How are you doing?
Hobo: Not good, I slept in the cold last night.
Me: Why didn't you go to the shelter?
Hobo: Because I ended up in detox. They threw me out at 3:30 and it was easier to take shelter under the bridge. Man, when I woke up I had the shakes.
Me: Why did you let yourself degrade to this point?
Hobo: Because nobody gave me nothing.
Me: What should they have given you?
Hobo: A leg up. A job that didn't break my back. A chance.
Me: Nobody ever gave me nothing either. What do you suppose the difference between us is?
Hobo: You grew up in suburbia and had parents that cared about you.
Me: How can you deduce that?
Hobo: By your demeanor.
Me: The fact that I have self respect and pride does not necessarily mean I had it easy. I have to fight just as hard as you to get through life. I think the difference is that you give up too easy. You have no self discipline. You made bad choices in the face of adversity. You ought to fix yourself, and quit destroying yourself.
Hobo: Its too late for me now. I am just waiting to wake up dead. I have died before, but the paramedics keep saving my life.
Me: If your that much of a futilist, why don't you just throw yourself in front of a freight train?
Hobo: Because I am weak. Like you said, that is why I am in this situation to begin with.
Me: Well, since you plan to live awhile longer, would you like the extra cheeseburger I have in my bag?
Hobo: Thanks.
Me: See you around.
Hobo: Hey, I don't suppose you could spare a few bucks?
Me: I earn what I make, and I expect you should do the same. Don't confuse my kindness with stupidity. Like I said, if you want to kill yourself, you should do it quick and not expect me to aid you in your demise.
Hobo: Fucking asshole!

[IHP]

SN, i know what you're saying as I have had similar conversations. But people don't get to that state simply because they think they had a tough break. there is a source to the path of poltroonery, and we have to establish why people are reduced to such a helpless state.

I would give you arguments why, but i expect you've heard them, and i have already heard your arguments, lets just leave it there. agree?

--IHP

[Stormin Norman]

Agree.

[Tkinter1]

"Capitalism today has tought us that you should not recognize someone by the type of person you are if not by the amount of money they have. Capitalism is also the father of greed. Capitalism has destroyed society. You don't see a rich guy hanging out with a poor hobo, of course not you see him making fun of him. Also in a quite littel neighborhood you see people jelous of each other because of their material possesions. That sucks! people should be recognized by the type of person they are and not by their social class! I say fuck capitalism! Esa Jopo todo tuanis? "

GOOD FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[American Kid]

vox, "sociological data"............?

lol, wut? Dude..............
-AK

(Edited by American Kid at 9:13 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[American Kid]

lol...............................no. C'mon, God. No............

Okay, *rolls up his sleeves* here we go.

RED CELTIC, MIKE (I'm gonna call you Mike; I'm sure your friends call you mike; I'm gonna call you Mike)

RED CELTIC---------------------LISTEN!

LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!!!!!!!

First of all, again, it should "please" you this kid, this "horrible piece of shit 'cappie'" just came back from the voting booth.

Hm? Who did the Kid vote for? Hm, well he's a cappie piece of shit who's "full of it" and doesn't care about poor people and RedCeltic, who DESPITE HAVING NEVER MET HIM, seems to know EVERYTHING about him, so that means the Kid voted Republican. Yes, defienetly. Definetely voted Republican.

Because he's a piece of shit.

........................................ugh, no, God. Not this.

Listen, I just got back from the voting booth. Guess what I voted? GREEN. Across the board. Whenever possible. When not possible, I had to vote Democrat.

But the point is: I voted GREEN. Jill Stein, governor. Peter White, State Rep. Gregory Milne, state something.......The point is, I voted GREEN. Now, look at your avatar.

WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE. I'm no FRIEND of big corporatations, Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Negative. Do I need to say it again? I'm POOR. Poor, and at that, I would have serious doubts considerably more so than someone on a PLUMBER'S salary.

Now, lookit, because I took CONSIDERABLE offense to your claim I'm "full of it."

The issue AT HAND, is this: Because of capitalism, the poor do not associate, and are, at that, looked down with ridicule by the ruling classes. This is:

"true." Absolutely. Of COURSE. Some rich kids I'm sure look down with scorn at the "vulgar masses" and despise them. Just as I and my friends when we were young scowled at and despised the rich kids.

Duh. This is life. Some people got it. Some people don't. Those who don't, work TO get it. In the meantime, they all hate each other.

..........................Until they actually meet each other.

RedCeltic (Mike) (can I call you Mike?) Mike, lookit me, in the face, "I'm not full of it."

YOU: know hardly anything about me

do not know the people I hang out with

know nothing about the people I hang out with

So don't step off your hhhhiiiiiiiiighhhhhh horse and tell me that the "theory" or, as vox puts it, lol, lmafao, according to the "sociological data", that it's impossible for the "rich kids" and the "poor kids" to fraternize and get along.

I've had this EXACT SAME CONVERSATION with my friends many times before. I've made these EXACT SAME OBSERVATIONS before. How me and my friends, we come from veryyyyyy variedddd economic backgrounds, and yet are a tight--------read that-------TIGHT group, despite what mommy and daddy do for a living.

Unlike other people, we refuse to allow our lives be DICTATED, by how much money we make, or where our "social standings" are. Because it's all bullshit.

Anyone who buys that crap, is a big baby.

And can't run with my crew.

No, Mike. I'm not "full of it." Go out and let your biases down. Let your guard down. Go out and allow yourself to meet a "rich kid" or two. You'll find that the breadth of their bank account, has NOTHING to do with who they are as people.

Well, some of them do. ANd it's the other way around as well. But that's their problem. And THOSE are the people you leave alone to wallow in the hell that is their life.

The day I start judging who I do or don't hang out and have fun with by the size of their bank account, is the day I cease to be cool.

I guess that would be the day I become a.....................well, commie.

shit
-AK

(lol, touched a nerve there, Mike)

(PS, WHY did you bring up big business with me here? When have I defended big business? Again, I'm NO friend of big business. My point here was strictly a defense that rich people shit on poor people. Which they no doubt do. But Christ, not ALL the time........)

(it was that simple.........)

(Edited by American Kid at 9:33 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[vox]

Once again, a foul right-winger dismisses the facts without actually talking about them. How very typical of the right-wing's anti-intellectual stance. Never let reality get in the way of a dearly held opinion.

Did anyone really expect more from AK?

vox

[American Kid]

The fuck are you talking about?

You fucking idiot.
-AK

[Anonymous]

Some Midol might help with those cramps vox.

[American Kid]

Also, for the new guys: this is vox.

I'll translate his post for you:

*ahem*

"........dismisses the facts without actually talking about them....."

that= "you don't agree with me; word for word. Therefore I am superior. You are worthless and shit, at that."

vox is the biggest creep here. Even his contemporaries here have PM'd me to reassure me so. He is the most vile, biased, partisan member of this board------ whose membership is quite high, keep in mind-------- with many many dickheads, who are still but dwarfed in the shadow of this world-class know-it-all.

There is absolutely nothing "right-wing" about anything in the post he's responding too (mine, above).

Yet, he accuses me of being so.

WHERE in a fairly long post about how someone just got back from voting GREEN, is the "right-wing" propaganda?????? Where?

Because I have friends who are rich who are very dear to me? That makes me right wing?

Again, vox, what the fuck are you talking about????

You son of a *****, I've written this before, and I want to re-emphasize: I fucking hate your stinking, condescending, fucking guts. I fucking hate you for being so dismissive, and patronizing-------where there's absolutely no need to be.

You are a total, complete prick, vox. And know that someone in this world, who despite having never even met you, knows enough about you, simply through TEXT, to loathe and despise you, wholly, as a human being.

You are shit to me. Anyone with half a brain, and a simple open mind, can see that I'm far from a fucking right-winger. Yet you continue to hound me, and accuse me of such.

"Did anyone really expect more from AK?"

You can take a dive off a cliff, dude. You are such a snobby, pretentious douchebag, vox.

Know that. Good for you. Your winning personality is such that you're able to generate spite and despisal from your fellow man, just from what you TYPE.

Quite an accomplishment.

Now hit the books. Dweeb.

Did anybody expect this from,
-AK?

(Edited by American Kid at 5:31 am on Nov. 6, 2002)

[IHP]

Fuck mate, calm down. its just the internet. You dont have to sit here and read stuff that you dont like. You are choosing to read this, and get offended. I have a solution for you. DONT TAKE EVERYTHING TO HEART. it doesn't matter if you go nuts (such as the above example) or just forget about it. it won't affect your life mate. ok? its your choice.

--IHP

[Stormin Norman]

AK,

You are right about Vox. She is a douche bag. If I could change one thing about your post, I would also make use of the words hooker, hague, and wench. I think she is in need of a good lay, but is too disgusting with her cottage cheese complexion that no man will touch her, even those more disgusting than she.

I heard an interesting theory about women on the left. The lower their breasts sag and the more their ass starts to fail, the more rapid they start foaming about the mouth with their lunatic Marxism. I know that sounds partisan, but know that I am not the inverse of Vox. I only hate communists. For good reason, might I add.

[vox]

For all the ranting AK does, he still doesn't talk about anything I've written. How typical. Instead, we're treated to yet another personal attack, as if anyone who has been here longer than a month doesn't already know that AK dislikes me. Regardless, none of it changes the facts about economic status playing a great role in social situations, and this is something we know, as I've already talked about.

As for SN, everyone already knew what kind of inhuman garbage he is, and I've pointed out before that he hates women (in the thread about prostitution, I believe). No surprises there.

Two boring posts from two members filled with hatred, and when they come across posts that prove them wrong, they whine and moan and call me names. At this stage, it's not even amusing. It's just embarrassing to watch.

vox

[Stormin Norman]

Actually, I love women. They bring balance to the world and often times are equal or better than men. If they knew what power they hold over men, we would be in serious trouble. I just don't like short haired angry women with horrible cases of penis envy.

I shouldn't have engaged in the personal attack. It was wrong, but I couldn't resist. You have attacked me personally, as well. If you would like, we can have a truce in the interest of bringing cleaner debate. Here is the deal should you accept it. I will not call you names, if you do not call me names. We will keep debate between the two of us clean. I can even refrain for refering to you as subhuman. What do you say? Your business with AK is your own, but I would rather debate with you on the merits of ones case. I think both of us deserve that kind of mutual respect. Let me be the first to extend the olive branch. I apologize for the comments I have recently made about you. It was wrong of me to resort to such insults, no matter how funny. Please accept my sincere apology.

[IHP]

Something tells me your tongue is in your cheek.

--IHP

[Stormin Norman]

IHP,

I am not familiar with that expression. Could you explain?

By the way Vox, I have not read your post. Therefore, I can not gauge how right or wrong you are. My attack on you was soley for that purpose and had nothing to do with how I perceived your post. Again, sorry about that.

[Stormin Norman]

"I've had this EXACT SAME CONVERSATION with my friends many times before. I've made these EXACT SAME OBSERVATIONS before. How me and my friends, we come from veryyyyyy variedddd economic backgrounds, and yet are a tight--------read that-------TIGHT group, despite what mommy and daddy do for a living." -AK

This is also true for my group. From the rich to the poorest among us, we never saw money as a means to determine the importance of one's friendship. Of course, our becoming friends had alot to do with geography. Being in junior high school and not having access to public transportation put limitations on the number of acquintances a kid can make. In most cases, I assume that was a strong factor in our parents decision to live there. Perhaps they wanted to shelter us from the prostitutes and drug dealers in the inner city. I guess they assumed drug dealing was exclusive to those areas. Boy, were they wrong. Would you consider a parents attempt to live in areas free from today's problems as classism? I wouldn't.

In addition, the area I grew up in was extremely wealthy. For a while it was ranked one of the wealthiest counties in the United States. However, there were plenty of poor people living in that region. My friends represented a broad cross-section of the demographic. One thing I did notice since I moved there after living in a much poorer area is the fact that there were few minority groups, almost none. I think there were 2 or 3 black kids that went to my high school.

I noticed living in such an area that often times people did concentrate on slight differences and some held racist or antisemetic views. Many people did concentrate on wealth. Many kids drove BMW's, Vipers, Lexus, and other new cars. Certain cliques often used materialism to measure a person's level of coolness. Students would sometimes compare the places their parents choose to vacation. Trips to Tahiti, Bora Bora, Aspen, and Europe were not uncommon. However, there were many people who did not define things in such shallow terms. There were those who saw value in other things, as well. These were the people that remained grounded despite extreme riches, and those that never had access to that kind of luxury. I tended to gravitate more toward people who did not place importance on things like race or money. People with depth of character were always more interesting than the shallow clones.

Whatever sociological data Vox speaks of might fit certain trends, but there are always those people who represent the random noise within the data set, points on the plot that must be throw out in order to fit a decent looking model to decribe the general trend.

[American Kid]

lol.............is vox a girl.........?

Jesus, this is creepy. Seriously. I don't know why. Just, would someone just tell me the truth?
-AK

[Communist Chris]

Sorry I can't have right before time but what I think is fuck AK!! I can't belive that other shit about that jackass fake conversation with Hobo! Just go back to the discussion. I think that all the cappies taht have wrote are just a bunch of rich snobs and that AK guy is lying.

[American Kid]

Dude?

Lookit, I'm from Cape Cod. I live in Hyannis. PM me, I'll give you my address. You're more than welcome to come party with us, brah.

However, a good number of my closest friends are proud Navy veterans. I don't know how cozily they'll be warming up to some guy named "Communist Chris."

But hey, if Kennedy and Orrin Hatch can be buds..........

Right?
-AK

[canikickit]

Hobo: Fucking asshole!

Somebody get that guy a medal.

A lot of people do feel disdain for others who are not as financially secure. I don't think SN or AK would be among those people, but I guarantee they exist.

Watch Sex and the City, those *****es are materialistic. It might claim to be satirical, but it isn't, it perpetuates materialism.

Also read that book, "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" (Toby Young), it is full of examples of materialism.

I know that you guys were speaking from your own perspective, but it came across as if you were denying the existence of this problem (and it is a problem).

[American Kid]

lol

lmao, actually. (you're on a roll tonight, Canikickut)

*ahem*

Um, yes, Canikickit. Yes, them *****es sure am be being materialisticness.

lol, sorry dude. That sentence jumped out at me.

rock on. Seriously. Disregard this.

Game on.
-AK

[Anonymous]

Bulshit, poor people dont hang out with rich people, i know booth classes weell! when you are young you see poor and rich people conviving, yet as they grow up, expecially when that filthy green shit starts to get up rich nose they soon forget theyr poor friends, admit it AK poor and rich do convive, but only when thye are young!

[American Kid]

I won't.

My friendships are testament to this fact.

And I'm older than you.

Boy.
-AK

[IHP]

"IHP,

I am not familiar with that expression. Could you explain?"

I must confess SN, you got a laugh out of me.

--IHP

[Stormin Norman]

"lol.............is vox a girl.........?"

Yes.

[Anonymous]

"I won't.

My friendships are testament to this fact.

And I'm older than you.

Boy.
-AK "


~then just name 1 midle age rich bastard with poor friends!

[American Kid]

I don't party with middle-agers, dude.

But I guarantee I'll be able to make quite the accurate answer to your question---------in about twenty years.

-AK