Euro 08 and banal nationalism

[Unicorn]

The flagwaving and all this "patriotic" show in the European Football Championships troubles me. Nationalism even in this bastardized form is a dangerous ideology. The German fans have again disappointed me with their Neo-Nazi antics. The media in every European country is urging people to fanatically support their national teams. People who don't do so and support the team of another country are often treated with contempt. The competion divides Europeans and stirs petty nationalism instead of uniting them and building friendship between peoples.

What should be done so that Euro 2012 would have a progressive character?

[F9]

there is only one solution.dont make euro 2012!nationalists find their way out and they show their "proud" and their hatteness to ther nationalists ffrom other countrys.There are fights bettwen nationalists and fascists,let them kill each other!:cool:

Fuserg9:star:

[Lost In Translation]

I agree that sometimes in such high-profile tournaments, Nationalism takes up a whole new meaning. However, these tournaments are political as well. I've heard that the politicians in Turkey are pressuring their team to do well in these Euro championships so that their affairs with the EU will be smoother. However, we shouldn't use this as an excuse not to enjoy one of the best Euros (football-wise) ever played.

[RedAnarchist]

By the way, Euro2012 will be in Poland and Ukraine. Theres a Wikipedia article about it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012

[Comrade B]

The flag waving and the likes is not necessarily saying "our country is better than yours" in this situation, it is just showing what team you stand for. As one would wear their favorite team's colors in a national league, they do so for their country's colors. When I go to a high school game, I wear my school's colors. This doesn't mean that I don't hate the essence of my school from it's openly conservative and religious principle, to the school's favoring of the American football jocks over all the clubs, football team, cross country team, and track team, the teachers there who feel the need to remind students that "evolution isn't the only option" and the massive numbers of rednecks that occupy the school.

[spartan]

Come on just admit it, this is all just because Finland didnt qualify isnt it?:lol:

[Wanted Man]

The German fans have again disappointed me with their Neo-Nazi antics.
:confused:

Anyway, international football is there so that people support their country's team. I would say that nationalism is inherent to international football. Nobody profits when everyone decides not to support their national team.

[Lector Malibu]

Dude I hear ya but you make it sound like the Germans are the only one's that get fired up.

You lost me on the Neo Nazi comparison..

[Comrade B]

Yeah the neo-nazi thing kind of irritated me. I am a Germany fan. I have the jersey, I joke with my friends who support the other teams. I have the black red and gold world cup scarf. I am definitely not a neo-nazi

[RaiseYourVoice]

Actually from my view as a German, it really is true. This is a chance for nationalists to spread their shit on tv and everywhere, and be sure they use it. I remember the worldcup where it was common knowledge on tv that Italy "betrayed us" and how "the italiens" were just jealous. This euro it's starting out the same. This nation is not supporting its team, this nation is supporting nationalism itself.

I am curios how the match Germany vs Turkey will be, since Turkish people are the favourite target of German racism. I heard people talk about how the would "set on fire the ghetto" if Germany lost. And not those weren't hardcore Nazis but average German nationalists. During national football games all that is morally wrong about nationalism and racism becomes accepted nationwide.

That sure doesn't mean that everyone is like that, but German national games are surely a breading ground for nationalism. With all the state-securing effects of course. Funnily enough there was a terrible statistic about how few long-term unemployed find a real job again. But the important thing about our government in the news is reports like "our chancellor bets on the Team getting to the finals".

I really would like to enjoy German national games, but it's pretty much impossible in an environment like this.

[Devrim]

Only one person actually killed in post match celebrations in Turkey.

Devrim

[Unicorn]

Anyway, international football is there so that people support their country's team. I would say that nationalism is inherent to international football. Nobody profits when everyone decides not to support their national team.

"Yet over the weekend, neo-Nazi hooligans from Germany managed to amass in Klagenfurt, the sleepy Austrian city on the shores of Lake Woerthersee, in the summer a traditional tourist destination. They were accused of shouting Nazi slogans and anti-Semitic slurs.

"All Poles should wear a yellow star" and "Germans, don't buy from Poles" were among the most disgusting slogans with clear references to the Nazi era, officials said.

Austrian police, aided by experts from Germany, arrested some 150 of them, together with 10 Poles, two Austrians and a Slovenian.

The incident indicates that while violent hooliganism -- with its mass brawls between two fan camps -- is dying down, neo-Nazis are increasingly using such international tournaments as a platform for their ideology."

http://www.upi.com/Emerging_Threats/2008/06/10/Neo-Nazis_trouble_soccer_tournament/UPI-63841213110181/

[Wanted Man]

"Yet over the weekend, neo-Nazi hooligans from Germany managed to amass in Klagenfurt, the sleepy Austrian city on the shores of Lake Woerthersee, in the summer a traditional tourist destination. They were accused of shouting Nazi slogans and anti-Semitic slurs.

"All Poles should wear a yellow star" and "Germans, don't buy from Poles" were among the most disgusting slogans with clear references to the Nazi era, officials said.

Austrian police, aided by experts from Germany, arrested some 150 of them, together with 10 Poles, two Austrians and a Slovenian.

The incident indicates that while violent hooliganism -- with its mass brawls between two fan camps -- is dying down, neo-Nazis are increasingly using such international tournaments as a platform for their ideology."

http://www.upi.com/Emerging_Threats/2008/06/10/Neo-Nazis_trouble_soccer_tournament/UPI-63841213110181/
Fuck, I didn't know that. :blink:


Actually from my view as a German, it really is true. This is a chance for nationalists to spread their shit on tv and everywhere, and be sure they use it. I remember the worldcup where it was common knowledge on tv that Italy "betrayed us" and how "the italiens" were just jealous. This euro it's starting out the same. This nation is not supporting its team, this nation is supporting nationalism itself.
Yeah, the stab-in-the-back theories are always popular. Italians were also paranoid about it before the Holland - Romania game even started.


I am curios how the match Germany vs Turkey will be, since Turkish people are the favourite target of German racism. I heard people talk about how the would "set on fire the ghetto" if Germany lost. And not those weren't hardcore Nazis but average German nationalists. During national football games all that is morally wrong about nationalism and racism becomes accepted nationwide.
There is some racism here as well. Nationalist pricks sometimes proclaim that "at least Turks are better than Moroccans", but when Turks start winning, apparently they have to be kept down. So you'll get more angry reactions about "honking unemployed Turks keeping the hard-working white man awake" (because the hard-working white man has work on Saturday, apparently...) and complaints that they should support Holland instead, otherwise it's a case of "failed assimilation". As far as I know, nothing has actually gone wrong during Turkish celebrations in the Netherlands.

On the other hand, after Holland - France, a Dutch man was arrested after jumping around in the fountain naked, and a kid got fireworks in his eye.

[Holden Caulfield]

if Germany lose to Turkey in the semis i expect a wave of anti turkish attacks in Germany spurred on by exsisting nazis playing on this nationalist feeling

[Lost In Translation]

I'm not pleased with UEFA's indifference to Turkey's injury and suspension crisis. The Germans in EURO '96 were allowed to bring two players up because they were down to 13 people (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19960629/ai_n14046949). However, UEFA has not yet made special arrangements for Turkey. Could this be outright bias by Platini & co.?[/URL][URL="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19960629/ai_n14046949"] (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19960629/ai_n14046949)

[punisa]

On Croatia's national television our final appearance (tragic match against Turkey) was accompanied with earlier song performance by Thompson live on TV.
For those unaware - Thompson is ultra nationalist singer/group and openly endorses nazi regime and talks about in his songs.

So yeah, being a sports fan and cheering for you team is good by me - even great, but unfortunately its used by politics too many times.

[Coggeh]

if Germany lose to Turkey in the semis i expect a wave of anti turkish attacks in Germany spurred on by exsisting nazis playing on this nationalist feeling
115,000 turks in Berlin , their dividing turk fans and german ones at a huge plaza in berlin to watch the match publicly , if the turks win ....

[Sam_b]

This is a load of bollocks.

If there are Neo-Nazis attending games and stirring up violence, it is ridiculous politics to make the conclusion that football is to blame. Neo-Nazis are the problem here, not a football competition.

People support clubs and are passionate about them, usually due to that they are in their local area or have a family history of following the club. International football is exactly the same in the sense that its their local team. I'm no nationalist, far from it, but i'll still support Scotland on the international level and don't see any problems whatsoever in doing so.

[Devrim]

This is a load of bollocks.

And yet people die.

Devrim

[Sam_b]

And yet people die.

Yeah, football's certainly to blame :rolleyes:

[Holden Caulfield]

115,000 turks in Berlin , their dividing turk fans and german ones at a huge plaza in berlin to watch the match publicly , if the turks win ....

doesnt Berlin have the largest Turkish population outside Istanbul?

[Devrim]

I didn't say that football was to blame. I don't think it is about 'Neo-Nazis attending games and stirring up violence' either.

I don't think that most of any violence that has happened/will happen is the result of 'neo-Nazis'. It will be committed by people from across the political spectrum. It is what happens when you whip up national hysteria.

And international football plays a large role in doing that.

Devrim

[Devrim]

doesnt Berlin have the largest Turkish population outside Istanbul?

I doubt it very much. If the figure quoted is correct, it doesn't really compare with Ankara (4.5 million), İzmir (3.5 million) or a host of other Turkish cities.

Devrim

[Die Neue Zeit]

This "banal nationalism" is better channelled towards athletic sports than towards either trade wars or the battlefield. :)

What about the Summer and Winter Olympics, then? Who can be rooted for, and who can't? :rolleyes:

[Coggeh]

doesnt Berlin have the largest Turkish population outside Istanbul?
Those were the figures I remember from Euronews , though i could be wrong in my memory ? regardless its a recipe for disaster if the Turks win . What are they thinking?

[Devrim]

Those were the figures I remember from Euronews , though i could be wrong in my memory ?

They sound reasonable:


In 2004 there were 1.739 million [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_germany#cite_note-0) or 1.907 million Turkish citizens in Germany, forming 26 per cent of all registered foreigners (Ausländer) and the largest ethnic minority.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_germany#cite_note-ozcan-1) In 2002, there were also 730,000 German citizens of Turkish origin.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_germany#cite_note-tusiad-2) Therefore, overall, the number of German residents with origins in Turkey is 2.637 million,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_germany#cite_note-tusiad-2) or approximately three per cent of the population.

The idea that Berlin is the second biggest Turkish city didn't though.

Devrim

[Fedorov]

Personally I love the euro 2008 and most rational people approach it just fine. I'm all for Russia but I won't kill someone because of it. If you're messed up enough to literally kill over a game then chances are if it isn't the Euro, something else will make you do it. The whole thing of thinking Germans are reliving Nuremburg rallies during football games is complete bs, you'd be pumped in such an atmosphere.
On the topic of Turks, the after celebrations were pretty positive and many Turks came to the games with both flags.

[Wake Up]

I don't think supporting your country in sport is quite the same as nationalism.
Just because some neo-nazi's use the fervor as a tool to spread nationalism doesn't mean all fans do.

The vast majority of fans do not hate fans of other teams at all, any aggression is just friendly banter. Of course their is hooliganism in football, but hooligans are in general people who are looking for a fight and use football clubs as a way of finding like minded people. Hooligans rarely start fights with people who are not also hooligans, it's not about beating people up because of what shirt they are wearing.
Hooligan fights are organized mass brawls between people who wan't to be there.

I would say at a football match there would be 95% normal people who follow their club as entertainment, 4% hooligans who are looking for fights with other hooligans and 1% neo-nazi recruiters. (those percentages are made from my experiences as a fan)

At the end of the day supporting a club or a country in sport is part of the entertainment, Sport wouldn't be the same without the partizanship.