Log in

View Full Version : Bourgeoisie democracy= Capitalism



core_1
20th June 2008, 15:49
Hiya,
After reading "...the proletariat will be unable to prepare for victory over the bourgeoisie unless it wages a many sided, consistent and revolutionary struggle for democracy" Lenin's 'The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self Determination'.
Just wondering is Bourgeoisie democracy synonymous with advanced Capitalism?
Sorry if its a stupid question:blushing:

nvm
20th June 2008, 18:17
Capitalism or advanced capitalism is not interconnected with bourgeois democracy. Although most capitalist countries have bourgeois democracy.
Bourgeois democracy is a political system under capitalism, while capitalism is an economic system. A lot of capitalist countries are/were fascist for example.
The advanced stage of capitalism according to Lenin (in which I agree with him) , is monopoly capitalism which is imperialism . So advanced (monopoly)capitalism does not negate free-competition of the early stages of capitalism but grows over it and exists simultaneously with it. Most is at this stage controlled by banks(finance capital). This period is characterized by concentration of the means of production in the hands of a few bankers and reach capitalists. This is advanced capitalism.
I suggest that you read " Imperialism the Highest Stage of capitalism " by Lenin to understand what advanced capitalism really is.

Dros
20th June 2008, 19:09
Hi core,

Bourgeois democracy is the political structure associated with most governments currently. People vote in elections in order to choose which specific section of the national Bourgeoisie (capitalist class) will be in control of the state. It is a form of Bourgeois Dictatorship in the sense that the class nature of this democracy is bourgeois and that it will always favor the interest of the Bourgeoisie politically and economically.

core_1
21st June 2008, 13:41
right ok
so why do we absolutely need to fight for democracy pre-revolution?
I understand the advanced Capitalsim part (so a country's proletariat can have an acceptable quality of living pre-revolution) but why does democratic reform have t happen before the revoltution?
(and cheers I'll read that)

nvm
21st June 2008, 13:54
but why does democratic reform have t happen before the revoltution?

the book you are reading is in the context of the czarist Russia lol.
There is no need of democratic reform before the revolution!

Q
21st June 2008, 15:09
right ok
so why do we absolutely need to fight for democracy pre-revolution?
I understand the advanced Capitalsim part (so a country's proletariat can have an acceptable quality of living pre-revolution) but why does democratic reform have t happen before the revoltution?
(and cheers I'll read that)

Lenin at the time of writing that book still thought that, but by the time of the Russian Revolution he agreed with Trotsky's position on Permanent Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/p/e.htm#permanent-revolution).

core_1
22nd June 2008, 02:07
ooh good
that seems to make more sense then.
All this talk of democratic reform, I was starting to think that Lenin should have been freinds with Kautsky lol.
Cheers