Confusion about Cuban life

[SeekingFreedom]

There's something I've been confused about. I've heard some very good things about Cuba, including free/affordable healthcare, equality, respectable treatment of gay people, high literacy and low mortality rates.

But my aunt went to Cuba on holiday and criticized the censorship and poverty in Cuba. She told me that Cubans were not to talk with tourists and that policemen were on every street corner keeping an eye on the people. She also explained that when she accidentily paid too much for her banana's from a street vendor, she followed her car and insisted she took more banana's because of the economic system. She also told me that the people lived in sordid poverty and had no new or clean clothes.

So I've heard about Cuba being a socialist paradise, and an oppressive shithole.

Any Cubans (or people who REALLY know what Cuba is about) who can explain to me what is really going on in Cuba. Anything to confirm or discern?

[nvm]

Well reality is in the middle of what the Stalinist apologists and the bourgeois critics claim as being the truth.
Cuba an isolated small island thanks to the planned socialist economy has institutions and provides things to the people that countries of the same history, geography and development could not even dream of.
Free and quality healthcare, excellent education, housing etc are what the Cubans as an exception to the rest of the Latin American countries enjoy.
But due to Stalinist policies of socialism in one country and the negation of Trotsky's theory of the permanent revolution , Cuba has been isolated, so although it has a progressive planned economy , due to this isolation , the standard of living cannot be as high as the advanced capitalist countries( Canada , Western Europe), but it is definately higher that the standard of living of backwards capitalist countries.
Also about the authoritarianism point that you made, we must not forget that Cuba was under the influence of the Stalinist USSR for a long time. So a bureaucracy similar to the one in the USSR developed , which restricts the freedom of criticism and workers democracy in the island.
The revolution in venezuela (if it succeeds) , will help the Cuban revolution. The bolivarian and the Cuban revolution are linked. So if Venezuela follows the correct path of genuine marxism and throws away Dietriech - like reformists the situation can change.
The IMT by critically supporting the Cuban revolution and with efforts to bring the ideas of Lenin and Trotsky to Cuba and Venezuela is on the right path.
Let us hope that everything goes well in Venezuela so the mistakes or the wrong doings of Cuba can be corrected. And let us hope that Cuba will not turn into China.

[manic expression]

I've never been to Cuba myself, but I've talked to people who have lived there, and I can tell you their impressions. First of all, Cubans are very outspoken when it comes to politics, it's just that most people are understandably unwilling to completely express their views to strangers (that's not unusual at all). The police force does very little to stifle genuine political dissent, and many different dissident groups regularly criticize the revolutionary government openly without being jailed (I can provide sources for this). The worst that happens to most dissidents is a longer wait for luxury items, but that's hardly repression. The dissidents who were jailed had documented ties to reactionary terrorists in the United States, and they had recieved financial support to destabilize the Cuban government; that's a crime anywhere.

On poverty in Cuba, the half-century imperialist siege has crippled the Cuban economy on multiple occassions. The American blockade restricts Cuban access to things like soap and medicine, which obviously takes a large toll on living conditions. The fact that Cuba has maintained such incredible standards in healthcare, housing, literacy, education and otherwise is only a testament to its system. That system is socialist, for it is fundamentally controlled by the working class through democratic organs.

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html

And no, the bureaucracy does not hold sway in Cuba. The rectification process in the late 1980's decreased Cuba's reliance on bureaucratic methods of social organization, and this is what helped the Cuban socialism withstand the collapse of the (bureaucratic) Soviet Union and other socialist societies in Eastern Europe.

[Digitalism]

wow Nothing Is Human, that Cuban Truth Project site really is interesting. Especially loved the Castro quote on Human Rights, so true.

[A New Era]

She told me that Cubans were not to talk with tourists Not true, with a few exceptions. If you sit in a hotel, Cubans trying to hassle are normally politely being asked to leave by the people who work at the hotels. Besides that, people can generally talk to you as much as they like.


and that policemen were on every street corner keeping an eye on the people. True. Partly to keep a watch on people, but mostly to make sure the tourists are left alone and feel comfortable. (Sometimes the policemen are part of the hassling of tourists though)

This heavy police presence is mostly in tourist areas, and so many of them are in prominent places like Havana, that many of those policemen are being "imported" from the countryside.


The American blockade restricts Cuban access to things like soap and medicineNot medicine anymore, if I remember correctly.


Cuba even surpasses some imperialist countries in categories like doctors per personA lot of those doctors are stationed outside Cuba in Venezuela but also other countries, which has caused queues in Cuban healthcare.


infant mortality, education and health

True.

[manic expression]

True. Partly to keep a watch on people, but mostly to make sure the tourists are left alone and feel comfortable.

And as someone who's travelled through Morocco, I can't tell you how much that helps the experience of learning about another country and culture (especially since Moroccan police didn't prove too helpful).


Not medicine anymore, if I remember correctly.

That may be possible, do you have a source?


A lot of those doctors are stationed outside Cuba in Venezuela but also other countries, which has caused queues in Cuban healthcare.

They have maintained the same outstanding levels of heathcare, however. Furthermore, I do think the doctors per capita, even excluding those stationed outside the country, is ridiculously good.

[A New Era]

That may be possible, do you have a source?I don't have enough post counts to be able to post links (stupid rule). You can google "medicine food embargo" and you will find plenty of links, including an article from CNN archive. Apparently the U.S. ended their food and medicine embargo in 1999 or 2000 it seems.



Furthermore, I do think the doctors per capita, even excluding those stationed outside the country, is ridiculously good. Perhaps. It means though, that children and elderly and those seriously ill are (of course) prioritized and that other people with genuine problems will either have to bribe a doctor in order to get treatment (usually 5-10 dollars, which is quite a lot of money for a cuban family, which means usually the best off cubans will have the easiest access), or wait for very long periods in order to get an appointment.

So there are a certain lack of doctors in Cuba, since they will have to ration the healthcare system.

[Sir Comradical]

Although Cubans are not wealthy in the material sense they have managed to climb out of the type of absolute poverty which is rampant in the capitalist wastelands of other carribean countries. Cubans are the victims of an economic war waged by reactionaries in the white house which leaves the government constantly paranoid about spies and attempts to overthrow the leadership. So the anxious policing is almost expected (not justifying it but that's how it is) however i do think you are exaggerating.

Why is it that when one evaluates Cuba, they compare it so some utopian, mythical land of milk and honey fantasy?? It's a country just like any other with scarce resources so it's neither paradise nor an oppressive shithole. Speaking about food. Cuba is the only government in the region that has been the least affected by the global food crisis because the government doesn't treat food like a commodity...it doesn't subject farmers to the volatility of the global market.

[manic expression]

I don't have enough post counts to be able to post links (stupid rule). You can google "medicine food embargo" and you will find plenty of links, including an article from CNN archive. Apparently the U.S. ended their food and medicine embargo in 1999 or 2000 it seems.

I heard about the food embargo ending, but I'm not sure on the details. I'll check it out.


So there are a certain lack of doctors in Cuba, since they will have to ration the healthcare system.

That may be, but if you ask me, sacrifice for the benefit of the international working classes, in this case sending doctors abroad, is the mark of a truly revolutionary socialist society. Nevertheless, their healthcare standards remain excellent by almost every measure.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Socialist paradise? :laugh:

[Jordi-FCB]

I heard in Cuba people were not allowed mobile phones or computers, not sure if it's true though.

[manic expression]

I heard in Cuba people were not allowed mobile phones or computers, not sure if it's true though.

Raul just announced the wide introduction of cell phones a few months ago. Internet access has been a bit inconsistent in the past due to a lack of fiber optic cable connections IIRC, but it's more and more available, especially in schools and public areas.

[#FF0000]

I've heard disappointing (and conflicting) things about Cuba as well.
A friend of mine, who isn't too keen on the whole socialism thing in the first place, pretty much said the same thing as OP. He also told me, though, that Cubans aren't allowed to have paper in their home.

He said it's to keep people from dissenting. I'm wondering if it's because of the embargo. After all, how bustling could a paper industry be on an island? Can anyone add some insight on this?

[manic expression]

I've heard disappointing (and conflicting) things about Cuba as well.
A friend of mine, who isn't too keen on the whole socialism thing in the first place, pretty much said the same thing as OP. He also told me, though, that Cubans aren't allowed to have paper in their home.

He said it's to keep people from dissenting. I'm wondering if it's because of the embargo. After all, how bustling could a paper industry be on an island? Can anyone add some insight on this?

Why would the Cuban government keep people from having paper when they allow open dissent in the streets?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4569981.stm

Don't buy the hype that Cuba arrests anyone in disagreement with the government, those "dissidents" are arrested because they've taken money from American based terrorist groups with the intent of overthrowing the government of Cuba. Dissidents who do not engage in such treachery, such as Oswaldo Paya (who is very outspoken), are not thrown in jail. The worst that can happen is you get longer waits for TV's and the like.

In view of the facts, it's really an impossibly misled assumption to think that paper is being kept from Cubans as a form of censorship.

[StrictlyRuddie]

My self being of Cuban decent, I hear about the conditions that my family had to deal with. Luckily they were able to escape and my family continues to talk about it.

It is basically a police state in the sense that there are police standing on the corners, patrolling the lives of its citizens. No internet or cell phones. All the boys at a certain age are required to join the army, against there will. The family of the party members do get extended "privileges". I remember one story about my grandmothers brother, he complained that his sons milk supply was cut off when he was 3 but that a party members family was still getting milk for there son who was 7. After complaining he was sent to a "Re education camp" and was later executed. Also comparing the housing, the party members and there families houses are mansions compared to the rest.

Basically there are two classes. The ruling class(Party members) and the workers(everyone else) have very distinct lives. Its not that far off from a capitalist societies hierarchy. (in Cuba case.)

[manic expression]

My self being of Cuban decent, I hear about the conditions that my family had to deal with. Luckily they were able to escape and my family continues to talk about it.

You DO know that the Miami exile community is perhaps THE most biased demographic on the face of planet Earth, right? Take everything from there with a salt-mine, because you'll need it to get through the half-truths, misconceptions and outright lies of the Miami Castrophobes.


It is basically a police state in the sense that there are police standing on the corners, patrolling the lives of its citizens.

This has already been completely debunked. The Cuban police primarily make sure tourists don't get hassled by would-be hustlers (and I can say from personal experience that hustlers destroy any cultural exchange that tourists can benefit from). Other than that, all accounts show a minimal police presence. There is no police state, there are no death squads or torture (unlike under the reactionary Batista, whom the Miami Castrophobes continue to blindly praise), Cubans are allowed to speak their views freely (I've heard this from multiple people who have traveled there, both leftist and non-leftist alike, not to mention countless instances of Cuban political expression documented by the media), democracy is the basis of Cuban society (see like below).

Any cursory glance at Cuban society shows, beyond any doubt, that your statement is simply untrue.

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html


No internet or cell phones.

Wrong. The internet is available primarily in schools and public areas. Cell phones are now being introduced widely.


All the boys at a certain age are required to join the army, against there will.

Just like that terrible police state, Finland. :rolleyes:


The family of the party members do get extended "privileges". I remember one story about my grandmothers brother, he complained that his sons milk supply was cut off when he was 3 but that a party members family was still getting milk for there son who was 7. After complaining he was sent to a "Re education camp" and was later executed. Also comparing the housing, the party members and there families houses are mansions compared to the rest.

It would be nice to have real, documented instances, not hear-say stories from extremely slanted sources (in this case, the Miami exile community).


Basically there are two classes. The ruling class(Party members) and the workers(everyone else) have very distinct lives. Its not that far off from a capitalist societies hierarchy. (in Cuba case.)

That's incorrect on multiple levels. First, party members do not live better than regular Cubans. For instance, the head of the party lives in a regular Havana neighborhood. The Castro family, the target of dozens upon dozens of assassination attempts, gets minimal security and isolation with very modest comforts. It's simply ridiculous to assert that membership in the Communist Party, an organization of the Cuban workers, lends to a different life than being a Cuban worker. Many members of the National Assembly aren't even party members! Your assertion doesn't line up with the facts.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

They aren't allowed to bring paper into the home? What kind of crap is that? The propaganda will never cease to amaze me. Next year Raul Castro will force children to eat their younger siblings as a testament to Karl Marx. :laugh:

[StrictlyRuddie]

Well I will have to say, my family did in fact like the previous leader, Batista. And they do continue to compare him to Castro etc.. I don't support a militaristic state such as that, and it makes no sense saying the government before Castro was any better.

Again that this is what I've heard from the family. But then again, we haven't been there in over 40 years. Obviously things have changed over the years.

But you cant dismiss the fact that there were executions, maybe not going on now but were there at the start and during the revolution. Any government that executes its own people isn't one to be respected in my eyes.

I digress, that was what I'v heard from familial sources.

[Digitalism]

Great response Nothing Is Human... read it all with great joy and delight. Love it when idiotic propaganda gets shot down like that. If only more people were so informed as you.