Fair trade

[spartan]

What are your opinions of fair trade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

[Killer Enigma]

It's either Trotskyist opportunism, Kautskyite revisionism, or fascism.

[Demogorgon]

I approve of it. At the end of the day you can talk all you want about it not achieving enough, but the fact is that it benefits those who are able to sell at a decent price greatly.

[nvm]

It's either Trotskyist opportunism, Kautskyite revisionism, or fascism.
Wtf?

[Luís Henrique]

It's either Trotskyist opportunism, Kautskyite revisionism, or fascism.
Can you explain us what do you understand for,


Trotskyist opportunism
Kautskyite revisionism
fascism

Please?

Luís Henrique

[Killer Enigma]

I was preempting drosera99's usual comments on everything.

[RedAnarchist]

I was preempting drosera99's usual comments on everything.

Why? He might not even read this thread, or post in it.

[Sam_b]

I approve of it. At the end of the day you can talk all you want about it not achieving enough, but the fact is that it benefits those who are able to sell at a decent price greatly.

Well yes, but I would dispute that it helps 'greatly'. Fair Trade has been completely exploited by capitalist manufacturers/importers/producers by trying to exploit the 'ethical' market, and still taking large chunks of profit out of it.

Fair enough to buy fair trade hen you can afford it, but i'm not going to tell a low-waged worker to spend an extra £1.50 on a bag of coffee when they can scarcely afford the value version as it is.

[Sendo]

^^

right. The Fair Trade certification is being manipulated b y agribusinesses already. It's better than the regular stuff, but not for long. The Zapatistas or any other group that has community-owned and organically-produced food will never get "fair trade" certification because they are not under the regulation of a First-World-recognized national government. If you live outside the law (of a fascist government) the NGOs like Fair Trade are useless.

Green capitalism is a sham. Community living is the answer. All vertical pieces of the organic food manufacturing and distribution chain are being corporatized. I knew some people who had worked in these industries. They always like the idea, but see that they are not really worker-owned and are quite scummy to their workers.

[KC]

Fair trade isn't simply good or bad. There are various aspects of it that could be said are either good or bad.

Fair trade is good in the sense that it gives certain workers more rights and better working conditions. Fair trade production facilities offer workers better pay, better working conditions and better hours than their counterparts. Because of this, it is good and is in some ways a victory for workers.

However, it is also bad in the sense that it produces a false dichotomy of fair trade vs. free trade. Fair trade is never going to be all-encompassing, and is one of those niche markets that sustains itself but doesn't grow to any significant extent. Because of these factors it often gives people a sense that fighting free trade by implementing fair trade "solves the problem" (and of course I hardly think anyone here adheres to that belief, but many people do) and that we should be focusing our energy on the fair trade vs. free trade "conflict". In this sense it detracts from real issues and degenerates into liberal reformism. In this sense it is bad.

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

Fair trade should only be preferred because everything else is made with sweatshop labor where workers get around 10 cents an hour for working 14 hours a day 7 days a week.

But, just like "going green," the capitalists will exploit the "fair trade" label to further their own profits.

Ideally, you should make your own stuff.

[An archist]

Fair trade should only be preferred because everything else is made with sweatshop labor where workers get around 10 cents an hour for working 14 hours a day 7 days a week.

But, just like "going green," the capitalists will exploit the "fair trade" label to further their own profits.

Ideally, you should make your own stuff.

That won't change much either, will it?

[RevolutionaryKluffinator]

No, but, frankly the whole idea behind socialism/communism/anarchism is the liberation of the majority from exploitation.

As a person who puts my beliefs into practice, I refuse to buy any sort of products made by starving workers under the rule of some despotic corporation.

[R_P_A_S]

I'm so torn between these fucking issues. there doesn't seem to be a "right" answer.. damn it.

[RedDawn]

Actually the Zapatistas do have fair trade certification:

http://www.caferebelion.com/catalog.html

But only in Mexico, they don't pay for the US certification because it is redundant.

Anyway, as stated before, Fair Trade can be good, but it is largely a sham, just like organic foods.

Agribusiness is just charging more for crap they already do. That or barely changing their practices / paying for certifications / keeping certification qualifications low.

Who gives a fuck?

If you can, buy Fair Trade. If you can't, don't.

Bottom line is we need to fuck up capitalism, not attempt to make it work through consuming.

[jctl04]

it is a better way to buy stuff for now. But ultimately its going to become just another market which asshole venture capitalists will try to exploit.

it would be best to have revolution through these countries and stop the free market economy allowing this exploitive labour through the world

[R_P_A_S]

it is a better way to buy stuff for now. But ultimately its going to become just another market which asshole venture capitalists will try to exploit.

it would be best to have revolution through these countries and stop the free market economy allowing this exploitive labour through the world

it pretty much already is!