Responses to Pedophilia [Split from 'Maybe Not, banned?']

[The Feral Underclass]

Someone who thinks that they shouldnt be punished for having sex with a pre-pubescent child obviously has some problems upstairs.

Punishing paedophiles doesn't work. Recidivism among post-convicted paedophiles is very high.

[RedAnarchist]

Punishing paedophiles doesn't work. Recidivism among post-convicted paedophiles is very high.

It doesn't work for anyone who breaks one of their country's "laws".

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Punishing paedophiles doesn't work. Recidivism among post-convicted paedophiles is very high.
Well, jailing them for a short period of time certainly doesn't combat the problem long-term. You would have to keep them locked up for life which of course would be impractical. Chemical castration is the way to go in my opinion.

[The Feral Underclass]

Well, jailing them for a short period of time certainly doesn't combat the problem long-term. You would have to keep them locked up for life which of course would be impractical. Chemical castration is the way to go in my opinion.

How is castrating paedophiles going to end paedophilia?

[spartan]

Stalinists are leftists, paedophiles are spread right across the spectrum. there's a difference between grassing on a leftist for being a leftist and grassing on someone who isn't.

The paedophile in question was a leftist so he would still be grassing on a fellow leftist regardless of his sexual tastes.

Yes he wouldnt be grassing on him because of his political beliefs but grassing on someone just because they have sexual fantasies that you dont agree with (Even if they have not, and dont ever intend to act on them) is still just as bad IMO.

This mindset of punishing people who could potentially committ a crime is wrong as we would have to lock everybody up as everyone is capable of committing a crime!

In the whole i dont think that we can put paedophiles in the same category as mentally unstable people who need to be locked up for their own and everybody elses good, as to me paedophiles are just normal people with abnormal and unacceptable sexual desires, who in the whole dont act on those urges (Despite what the scaremongering right wing press claims with their sensational headlines).

Of course some do and they should be locked up and given mental treatment but for all those proposing punishing paedophiles who havent done anything sexual to a child, how are you going to determine who is a paedophile when they havent done or said anything that would indicate that they are indeed paedophiles?


How is castrating paedophiles going to end paedophilia?

I think he meant that it will solve the problem of them trying to actually sexually assault someone, not destroying paedophilia or anything.

Chemical castration is probably the most humane punishment for convicted paedophiles.

[Unicorn]

How is castrating paedophiles going to end paedophilia?
They lose their sexual desires after castration. If castration is not enough some chemical injections can be used like in the Soviet Union.

[apathy maybe]

They lose their sexual desires after castration. If castration is not enough some chemical injections can be used like in the Soviet Union.
But it won't end paedophilia! It will only stop certain persons from having sex, it won't stop everyone. Moreover, seeing as no one really knows why people are attracted to other people, more then likely that won't be a way to end it. Genetics is sure to be at least part of the reason.

Sorry, you didn't answer TAT's question...

[Unicorn]

But it won't end paedophilia! It will only stop certain persons from having sex, it won't stop everyone.
It is of course desirable that child molesters don't repeat their crime.



Moreover, seeing as no one really knows why people are attracted to other people, more then likely that won't be a way to end it. Genetics is sure to be at least part of the reason.
Chemical castration will curtail the offender's sex drive. It doesn't matter if he is homosexual, heterosexual or a pedophile.

[Holden Caulfield]

allowing it to be 'accseptable' in society will only reinforce it in that society, and therefore will lead to more cases of paedophilla,

if it doesnt rehabillitate them then jailing them will prevent abuse and act as a deterrance

[Kropotesta]

allowing it to be 'accseptable' in society will only reinforce it in that society, and therefore will lead to more cases of paedophilla,
I don't think the acceptance of paedophilia would lead to more people being sexually attracted to children. For example when being gay was illegal, it didn't stop people from being homosexual, it merely caused supression and underground activties.

[Unicorn]

I don't think the acceptance of paedophilia would lead to more people being sexually attracted to children. For example when being gay was illegal, it didn't stop people from being homosexual, it merely caused supression and underground activties.
Pedophilia has to be suppressed to protect children.

[Holden Caulfield]

it reinforces the concept as normal, i dont think paedophillia should be tolerated at all, especially not an an internet site with a sizeable amont of young users,

homosexuality dones not abuse, hurt or exploit anybody, paedophilia does,

personally i am going to try not to interact with the said user anymore about this issue

Edit: homosexuals can protect themselves, give informed consent etc, children cannot

[Kropotesta]

Pedophilia has to be suppressed to protect children.
That is not the point I was making now, was it?

[Kropotesta]

it reinforces the concept as normal, i dont think paedophillia should be tolerated at all, especially not an an internet site with a sizeable amont of young users,

homosexuality dones not abuse, hurt or exploit anybody, paedophilia does,

personally i am not going to interact with the said user

Edit: homosexuals can protect themselves, give informed consent etc, children cannot
Again that is not my arguement whether it should be tolerated or not. I was merely stating that if paedophilia weren't illegal or anything that I don't think anyone would or even beable to make a rational decision that they would like to have sexual contact with children.

[Unicorn]

That is not the point I was making now, was it?
Pedophiles don't abuse children when they are in a jail or castrated. Suppression obviously helps to prevent child abuse.

[Holden Caulfield]

im with unicorn,

[Kropotesta]

Pedophiles don't abuse children when they are in a jail or castrated. Suppression obviously helps to prevent child abuse.
Way to miss the point! I was arguing for or against surpression.
Castration is merely reactionary, it does not stop paedophiles existing.

[Led Zeppelin]

Look, this wasn't just about a "thought crime", as I posted in the other thread:


How is thinking about something or wanting to do something abusive or hurtful to anyone? Are you really intellectually incapable of distinguishing desire from action, of pedophilic interest from child molestation, when the person who sparked this discussion is only acknowledging his sexual interest while denying any real life desire to act on that interest?

Or is your hatred of the people rather than the act so much that you'll abandon all logical categories so you don't have to think about it?

As Caligula Z and I rightly said in the other thread about him:


I can see the difference between fantasizing about kids and actual child abuse, but I have a feeling that whenever paedophiles claim 'rights' and 'acceptance' for their orientation, there's always the belief that child abuse isn't really wrong lurking just around the corner. I can easily see how they construct in their minds a kind of utopia where children love having sex with adults - if only their natural drives weren't repressed by society. This kind of mindset may or may not involve the paedophile lying to himself.

I think you can detect this belief between the lines of Maybe Not's post too.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174826&postcount=30)

If you read the last few sentences of his post, I think you can read between the lines that he doesn't really believe child abuse is harmful. Just look at all the "brainwashing the kid into thinking of its 'special friend' as evil" business.
That's just my opinion anyway.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174783&postcount=20)


His whining about abused children having to go through "the corrupt machine of psychiatry to tell them how horribly they suffered, and how evil the adult was" also clearly indicates that.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174787&postcount=21)

You are referring to pedophiles who acknowledge they have a psychological disorder and don't want to act on it. Maybe-Not said he would act on if "scientific proof" validates it, which is an idiotic thing to say because the science on that is already in.

At the same time he was whining about pedophiles being discriminated against, about psychiatry telling abused children that they suffered horribly and that the adults who abused them were evil, as if the children are horse-fed that stuff:


But if i do establism an emotional connection to a child, i don't think the child could be anything but destroyed, from first getting their special friend taken away, and then being forced trough a corrupt machine of psychiatry to tell them how horribly they suffered, and how evil the adult was.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174120&postcount=1)

Also, he said himself that


I don't believe you are 'born' with a sexuality, but i don't believe you can change the sexuality your life spins up for you either
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174120&postcount=1)

Which seems to be a contradiction in terms, because he never explains how life "spinned it up" for him.

It doesn't matter though, nowhere in his post did he say that he was suffering from a psychological disorder, on the contrary, he was trying to get sympathy and acceptance for it:


As an anti-discriminatory wing (the left i presume), it should be our job to principally stamp out discrimination and hatred wherever we see it. I hope you all agree with me, at least to this point.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174120&postcount=1)



What do you propose? How would you change the laws?
As for right now, nothing radical. Removing the retarded legalization of fictional material (i mean, really..). But for now, it is mostly an issue of acceptance.
Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1174135&postcount=4)

"As for right now, nothing radical, just acceptance."

What do you believe he would have wanted to happen after "right now", that is, after having been accepted for his fantasies?

It seems to me that to act on them was his next objective.


And what, may I ask, is the alternative being given here to what he's doing (acknowledging the physical desire while rationally deciding not to act on it?)?

[...]

Again, what is it you want these people to do with themselves exactly?

How about accepting the fact that they have a psychological disorder and try to deal with that instead of trying to create "acceptance" for it while at the same time attacking the "corrupt machine of psychiatry which tells abused children that they suffered horribly and that the adults who abused them are evil"?

If I personally had his disorder, I would seek treatment for it from that "corrupt machine of psychiatry".

Yes, my life would probably suck, but I would never try to get child porn, because I know it was produced by exploiting other children, and I would never advocate "acceptance" or the removal of laws against people who have the same disorder as me.

I would understand the fact that society needs to protect itself against people suffering from that psychological disorder.

[Unicorn]

Castration is merely reactionary, it does not stop paedophiles existing.
Chemical castration curtails sex drive. The pedophiles become asexual and are no longer a threat to children. They can live their lives as normal members of the society then. I think that is a good solution.

[Kropotesta]

Chemical castration curtails sex drive. The pedophiles become asexual and are no longer a threat to children. They can live their lives as normal members of the society then. I think that is a good solution.
It doesn't stop people becoming paedophilles does it? Going by your jest for punishment an incident would have already happened, so you fail to stop the problem, as it were.

[Unicorn]

It doesn't stop people becoming paedophilles does it? Going by your jest for punishment an incident would have already happened, so you fail to stop the problem, as it were.
There are pedophiles who reoffend. The purpose of the punishment is to eliminate reoffending.

[Led Zeppelin]

Come on, that's pretty fucked up, I don't support chemically castrating pedophiles, what if you were born with that disorder? Because that's what it is; a psychological disorder.

They should seek treatment and their identities should be revealed to society so that it can act accordingly to defend itself (schools won't hire them, they won't be allowed to live close to them, their activity is monitored to make sure they don't aquire child porn or are in regular contact with children, families that don't want to live next to them are given the chance to move away or they themselves are denied the possibility to live next to them etc.), that's all that can be done while still treating them as human beings.

You have to remember, we're talking about the securing of other lives.

A person who suffers from a disorder which makes him likely to kill or otherwise harm someone also has restrictions set on them, society must protect itself from such people without forgetting the fact that they are people as well.

[Kropotesta]

There are pedophiles who reoffend. The purpose of the punishment is to eliminate reoffending.
That's a very primitive way at looking at things. Do you not think the best answer is to understand why the individual has the complusion they have and eventually rehabilitate them? Or are you going to deprive a person aof sexual affection by using the easy way out?

[Post-Something]

That's a very primitive way at looking at things. Do you not think the best answer is to understand why the individual has the complusion they have and eventually rehabilitate them? Or are you going to deprive a person aof sexual affection by using the easy way out?

Nobody seems to have found out why, and so far there is no treatment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia


Also, any of you guys seen this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1eNDIioyx8

[Unicorn]

Come on, that's pretty fucked up, I don't support chemically castrating pedophiles, what if you were born with that disorder? Because that's what it is; a psychological disorder.
Castrating convicted child molesters is a good idea. It eliminates the risk of reoffending and they will be able to live normal lives after they are released from the prison. I don't think pedophiles who have not molested children should be castrated because there is no adequate proof that they are inclined to molest children.

[Kropotesta]

Castrating convicted child molesters is a good idea. It eliminates the risk of reoffending and they will be able to live normal lives after they are released from the prison.
Yeah, a normal life really consists of no future sexual prospects, well maybe for you it does. Also once 'cured' they will forever be discriminated against due to the castration being constant reminder to everyone that this person once may have sexually touched a child. Now you call that a 'normal' life?

I don't think pedophiles who have not molested children should be castrated because there is no adequate proof that they are inclined to molest children.
So therefore you only punish them? Pretty reactionary aren't you?

[Unicorn]

That's a very primitive way at looking at things. Do you not think the best answer is to understand why the individual has the complusion they have and eventually rehabilitate them? Or are you going to deprive a person aof sexual affection by using the easy way out?
Pedophiles are not attracted to adults. It is better for them and the whole society that they are attracted to nobody rather than children. The only other possible punishment which prevents reoffending as efficiently is a life sentence but that option is worse from all points of view.

[Kropotesta]

Nobody seems to have found out why, and so far there is no treatment.

That could be because people are to much focused on the punishment opposed to reasoning, alike Unicorn here.

[Post-Something]

So therefore you only punish them? Pretty reactionary aren't you?

Yeah, but nobody seems to have found the reasons for pedophilia, or how to treat it. There' not really much you can do but attack the consequences of their actions apart from track people who log onto child porn sites etc.

Or what do you propose?

[Unicorn]

Yeah, a normal life really consists of no future sexual prospects, well maybe for you it does. Also once 'cured' they will forever be discriminated against due to the castration being constant reminder to everyone that this person once may have sexually touched a child. Now you call that a 'normal' life?
Who has to know that a person has been chemically castrated? It does not prevent normal life. A child molester is not usually interested in normal sex life and forfeited that right when he decided to molest a child.



So therefore you only punish them? Pretty reactionary aren't you?
?

[Post-Something]

Pedophiles are not attracted to adults. It is better for them and the whole society that they are attracted to nobody rather than children. The only other possible punishment which prevents reoffending as efficiently is a life sentence but that option is worse from all points of view.

Only 7% of them aren't attracted to adults at all, the vast majority can be aroused by both.

[Kropotesta]

Pedophiles are not attracted to adults.
That's a ridiculous and false statement and this renders the rest of your post obsoluete.

[Post-Something]

Who has to know that a person has been chemically castrated? It does not prevent normal life. A child molester is not usually interested in normal sex life and forfeited that right when he decided to molest a child.

Don't the community have to know? I thought there was some sort of sex offenders book with all registered sex offenders in your area or whatever; or am I imagining this?

[Led Zeppelin]

Castrating convicted child molesters is a good idea. It eliminates the risk of reoffending and they will be able to live normal lives after they are released from the prison.I don't think pedophiles who have not molested children should be castrated because there is no adequate proof that they are inclined to molest children.

What if the risk of re-offending can be eliminated through the measures I mentioned?

I actually believe that all pedophiles should have those measures taken against them, simply because the risk of the first offense is too high.

It must be taught that pedophilia is a disorder which has the potential to harm other people, while making sure that it is treated as a disorder, not a contagious disease.

[Killfacer]

i have to point out (and i cant source this so i apologise), that there was a recent study on pedophiles and they have less "white matter" on their brain. This "white matter" stops a human being from being able to choose between what is right and what is wrong. Obviously this does not excuse pedophiles, there is always a huge element of choice, but it does show that chemical castration would be wrong as you would be chemically castrating them for the way they were born.

[Post-Something]

Just out of curiosity, when does something become a disorder, as opposed to a sexual attraction? Where is the line?

[Kropotesta]

Who has to know that a person has been chemically castrated?
When someone gathers that they can't be aroused and various other circumstances, use your imagination.

It does not prevent normal life. A child molester is not usually interested in normal sex life
Wrong.

and forfeited that right when he decided to molest a child.
For partaking in an activity that couldn't get help for/offered?
So if you hit someone once, you should have your hands cut off?

[Unicorn]

Only 7% of them aren't attracted to adults at all, the vast majority can be aroused by both.
Source?
Anyway, it is the responsibility of the social services to investigate possible cases of child molestation. Parents who molest their children lose their guardianship. A pedophile is unsuitable to be a parent and thus they have forfeited their right to procreation.

[Post-Something]

Source?
Anyway, it is the responsibility of the social services to investigate possible cases of child molestation. Parents who molest their children lose their guardianship. A pedophile is unsuitable to be a parent and thus they have forfeited their right to procreation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia



Exclusive vs. nonexclusive
Although defined as an exclusive sexual preference by some experts and sexologists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexology),[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-WHOPaedophilia-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-okami-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-Freund-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-Blanchard2007-3) pedophilia may be better understood if separated into two categories. Exclusive pedophiles are attracted to children, and children only. They show little erotic interest in adults their own age and in some cases, can only become aroused while fantasizing or being in the presence of prepubescent children. Nonexclusive pedophiles are attracted to both children and adults, and can be sexually aroused by both. According to a U.S. study on 2429 adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusive; indicating that many or most pedophiles fall into the nonexclusive category.

[Kropotesta]

forfeited their right to procreation.
Sex has more to it than procreation :rolleyes:

[Unicorn]

i have to point out (and i cant source this so i apologise), that there was a recent study on pedophiles and they have less "white matter" on their brain. This "white matter" stops a human being from being able to choose between what is right and what is wrong. Obviously this does not excuse pedophiles, there is always a huge element of choice, but it does show that chemical castration would be wrong as you would be chemically castrating them for the way they were born.
Genetic determinism is a false belief. Pedophiles have a choice to either act on their desires or not. Child molesters are punished for what they did, not what they are.

[The Feral Underclass]

Nobody seems to have found out why, and so far there is no treatment.

There was an inhibitor that paedophiles could take that would be coupled with counselling, but it was deemed to costly to produce.

[The Feral Underclass]

They lose their sexual desires after castration. If castration is not enough some chemical injections can be used like in the Soviet Union.

It may stop someone re-offending but it does not stop paedophilia, nor does it help treat the problem. Presumably we'd prefer to have paedophiles operating within society as normal, healthy people?

[Killfacer]

unicorn, you cant dismiss genetic research as false, just off hand. Got any rcent scientific reports? Or are you just gonna say its false? Im not denying theres human responsibility. Read my post.

[Unicorn]

What if the risk of re-offending can be eliminated through the measures I mentioned?
It can't. There is no evidence that the measures you mentioned would actually eliminate recividism. There is no known cure and simply making the pedophiles aware of the consequences of their actions is not an adequate deterrent.



I actually believe that all pedophiles should have those measures taken against them, simply because the risk of the first offense is too high.

It must be taught that pedophilia is a disorder which has the potential to harm other people, while making sure that it is treated as a disorder, not a contagious disease.
Known pedophiles will often be victims of violence. I think a castrated person is better able to live a normal, satisfying life than an identified pedophile who nobody will hire and many people would like to beat. The pedophile would still be tormented by his urges and the risk of a tragic reoffense exists.

[The Feral Underclass]

There are pedophiles who reoffend. The purpose of the punishment is to eliminate reoffending.

What about actually helping people and trying to actually cure the problem?

[Unicorn]

unicorn, you cant dismiss genetic research as false, just off hand. Got any rcent scientific reports? Or are you just gonna say its false? Im not denying theres human responsibility. Read my post.
I don't dispute the scientific results. The problem was that you didn't understand them. The scientists did not claim that there is a causal link, just a correlation.

[Unicorn]

What about actually helping people and trying to actually cure the problem?
I think chemical castration is the most humane solution. It does cure the problem. What is the alternative?

[Killfacer]

oh shit, ok. Seems i was wrong, i take what i said back. Still, chemical castration? Must be other wase of dealing with the root problem?

[Kropotesta]

I think chemical castration is the most humane solution.
You do not know the meaning of humane. Taking away sexual experience and possiby, consequencly, inhibiting a loving relationship, is in no way humane.

[Post-Something]

There was an inhibitor that paedophiles could take that would be coupled with counselling, but it was deemed to costly to produce.

Did anyone do a study on it or anything to find how effective it was? I can't seem to find anything, just sertraline and serotonin; which seem quite general.

[Post-Something]

What about actually helping people and trying to actually cure the problem?

Of course, but the problem is that the majority of people aren't pedophiles, and they have to be assured that their children are out of harms way. So that is the immediate concern. Since there doesn't seem to be anything but a costly cure, there really isn't many choices. I think it should be known to the community who is a pedophile and who isn't, it's much safer that way, and at least if something happens, people will generally have a starting point.

[AutomaticMan]

I think chemical castration is the most humane solution. It does cure the problem. What is the alternative?

It doesn't cure the problem of paedophilia, merely children being molested by those castrated. Short of eugenics, I'm not sure anything could cure paedophila and completely erase it from society. I do however agree that convicted paedophiles- and all others who engaged in sexual activity without the other person's consent- should be chemically castrated. Both as punishment and as a safety precaution to protect others.

They're not being punished for suffering from the disorder, they're being punished for violating someone's bodily integrity.

[There is No God!]

I think more than anything we need to create a social climate where it’s ok for someone to come out and admit that they are attracted to children. Because currently there’s no help for someone who has these urges, so they’re stuck in the closet and the problem snowballs, and is only addressed after it’s too late.

[Bud Struggle]

I think more than anything we need to create a social climate where it’s ok for someone to come out and admit that they are attracted to children. Because currently there’s no help for someone who has these urges, so they’re stuck in the closet and the problem snowballs, and is only addressed after it’s too late.


And then we catch them and castrate them.

[There is No God!]

And then we catch them and castrate them.

I guess as a last resort, but the purpose should not be to punish the offender, it should be to protect the community and make them productive members of it.

I realise that castrastion does both of these things to an extent, but it's a better alternative than sticking them in a cage or hanging them.