Sniper Caught (By Capitalist Imperial) - I knew it wasn't th

[Guest]

It could not have been the missing AWOL French soldier, they are not that good of shots.

Seriously, though, thoughts?

[American Kid]

Thank fucking God they caught him ("them".......yikes.)

I can't wait to here the full story. Read the book. See the movie. Play the video game.........................
-AK

[IzmSchism]

assuming it is them.......

[American Kid]

Very true.

But what do you care? You're in Korea!

(how are things, btw?)
-AK

[munkey soup]

If it's them, my guess was wrong. I figured it be a white guy between 20-50, ex-military or militarty buff kinda guy. But I think the older one is ex-military, I'm not sure though. Has anyone else heard any more info on these guys?

[Sasafrás]

The younger one (stepson, right?) is a Jamaican citizen, 17... He attended some high school in Washington state. The older guy had been in the military and was stationed somewhere in Washington state. They're black, oh my! That was a surprise. I thought it was gonna be a panda (long story, you may not even wanna know).. Anyway, guy's freaking bananas, wrote in that note he left at the Ponderosa that he's "God." He kept calling the po-pos, like, "I don't like the way you people are conducting the sniper investigation." He may as well have just said, "Hey, 5-0 ass *****es, come and get my ass. I'm waiting..."

Fuck them, I hate them. As if black people (and Muslims!) don't have enough on them to worry about, this fool goes out on a killing spree, a fucking tangent curve of all things, shooting up people at the gas station, the store, and the goddamn schoolhouse. This is NOT math class, we needn't tangents, sines or secents. What a disgrace. He makes me want to do horrible things.

Well, maybe those two aren't the ones, but still. Just the thought makes me cringe.

[Stormin Norman]

Another prime example of how the 'religion of peace' brings peace and joy for everyone. John Mohhammed was just trying to spread peace through the power of Islam.

Besides the man is black, we can not charge him, as it would further compound the demographics problem we seem to be having in our prisons. We must be sure to employ affirmative action quotas to our prison system in the interest of fairness.

We should question what aspect of American society made John crack and start to kill people. I am sure an in depth investigation would uncover some problem in his childhood. We should seek to rehabilitate this man and raise him back to a civilized level before we release him back into the public. It is our fault he committed these crimes. It was our society that created this man. We should do everything possible to make his stay comfortable while we get him the proper counseling.

Who are we to judge what is right and wrong? One man's murderer is another man's freedom fighter. If he can justify his actions in his own mind that makes his actions right and no one can say otherwise. If his culture or religion teaches these morals then our culture can not judge his. Now that would not be sensitive to the cultural background of a sociopath and would be the ultimate expression of judgmentalism. You don't want to appear to be judgmental, do you?

[Moskitto]

wait a minute, you base people's sniping ability on what country they come from?

[Guest]

Yes, it is applicable. For example everyone knows Somalians are horrible shots, and that most Arabs can't fight for shit.

The guy was ex-military served in desert storm. He wasn't a sniper or of any special forces. If I remember correctly though he was trained in Urban combat. He was discharged after punching a superior officer in the face over a dispute.

[Frosty]

"Yes, it is applicable. For example everyone knows Somalians are horrible shots, and that most Arabs can't fight for shit. "

Because of lack of training, or because they are "inferior"?



What seems weird to me was that this guy used the civilian version of the M16, shooting from the back of a Caprice. Wouldn't that gun raise quite a noise?

[Guest]

I guess that you could attribute it to lack of training but they boast how they are battled hardened from fighting since childhood.

I thought the guy used an AR-15 assualt rifle. Yes it would be loud, but he was smart and had applied for an assualt rifle silencer and got it. However one thing that wasn't to bright was using his back yard as a make shift firing range.

Lurker_01

[canikickit]

"Sniper Caught by Capitalist Imperial"

Well done man, you are a hero to your nation.

[Frosty]

I think it means he posted it. :biggrin:

[Anonymous]

Hunting the Sniper: The Secret History of the Military's Spy Planes
Anthony Lappé, *October 17, 2002

The announcement yesterday that military spy planes outfitted with sophisticated surveillance gear have been brought in to help capture the DC sniper has many up in arms. While the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 clearly restricts military personnel from taking part in domestic law enforcement operations, lawyers for the government are arguing that the military can help without violating the law if the planes are used in a support role. But many civil liberties activists are worried that the planes, designed to look like regular commuter aircraft, are just another chapter in the creeping militarization of American life since 9-11. *



This isn’t the first time these types of planes have been used on a controversial mission. In the early ’90s, Bush Sr. sent the surveillance aircraft to Colombia to help track down the notorious drug lord Pablo Escobar. In the process, the operation ended up aiding a death squad, and helping Escobar's rivals take control of the cocaine business.



As detailed in Mark Bowden’s book “Killing Pablo,” the planes were part of a covert Army intelligence team whose code-name changed as often as its mission. *As Bowden writes, “Over the decade since its creation, the army’s own small spy unit had changed its name often, in part to protect its secrecy. It had been called ISA, for Intelligence Support Activity, the Secret Army of Northern Virginia, Torn Victory, Cemetery Wind, Capacity Gear, and Robin Court.”



In Colombia, it was called Centra Spike and its job was to help the Colombians take out Escobar and his cohorts. It was 1989 and Pablo Escobar was Public Enemy Number One in Bogotá, and in Washington. One of Colombia’s most powerful drug lords, he had built a vast empire that included real estate holdings, manufacturing plants, even a professional soccer team. But he had made two fatal mistakes, as far as the Americans were concerned. First, by the end of the ‘80s, Escobar had all but taken over the cocaine trade in Florida. This meant pushing out the CIA-connected Cubans who had controlled the flow of drugs into the state, and turning it into a narco-haven for smugglers, dealers and corrupt bankers. Second, Escobar got too big for his britches. A self-proclaimed man of the people, he built housing projects for the poor and had become an alternate member of the Colombian congress. He also had begun criticizing the American influence in Colombian politics. He had to go.



Centra Spike was sent down to Medellin to quietly set up shop, and fly their modified commuter planes high over the city, listening to Escobar's cartel's conversations and then feeding that info to local police.



Bush, who worried about the legal implications of the operation, had his advisors draft a formal memorandum to Executive Order 12333, which barred U.S. officials from assassinating foreign public officials, Bowden reported.



The memo said it part: “. . . a decision by the president to employ clandestine, low visibility or covert military force would not constitute assassination if the U.S. military forces were employed against the combatant forces of another nation, a guerrilla force, or a terrorist or other organization whose actions poses a threat to the security of the United States.”



Bowden adds, “The opinion eased concerns among soldiers in the covert ops community, including the men of Centra Spike, that their work would not someday be labeled criminal. If the Colombians were going to simply kill cartel leaders that Centra Spike found, so be it.”



But the info wasn’t just being used to “kill cartel leaders.” The war against Escobar had turned ugly. A mysterious death squad that came to be known as Los Pepes began a “dirty war” against Escobar’s interests. Rumored to be made up of family members of Escobar’s victims, local police and military personnel as well as members of the Cali Cartel, Escobar’s main rival, Los Pepes were behind a well-orchastrated campaign of terror. The Centra Spike team would supply intelligence on a particular Escobar operative to the local police, and the next day the operative would be found dead. Centra Spike claimed not to know how their info made it to the death squads. But it didn't really matter. The result was the same. No one was safe, the drug lord’s family members, lawyers, business partners, jockeys who rode Escobar's racehorses, were all hunted down and murdered. Los Pepes even killed one of his horses and tied the carcass to a tree.



By the time Escobar was finally killed by a team of Colombian commandos and American operatives on December 2, 1993, Los Pepes had killed 300 Colombians.



After Escobar’s death, the flow of cocaine into the U.S. only increased. As Bowden writes, the American ambassador at the time, Joe Toft was convinced the real winner in the operation was the Cali Cartel. Toft thought “[k]illing Pablo had not ended the cocaine industry; it had only merely handed it off to new leaders,” Bowden writes.



Toft retired in disgust six months after Escobar’s death, not before going on Colombian television to accuse the then-president-elect Ernesto Samper of being in the pocket of the Cali Cartel.



Of the whole Escobar operation, Toft later told Bowden, “I don’t know what the lesson of the story is. I hope it’s not that the end justifies the means.”



We can only hope that we won't be saying the same thing years from now when a military presence on American soil has become part of our everyday lives.

( http://www.gnn.tv/civil_liberties/doc780.html )

[American Kid]

HOLY SHIT, THIS JUST IN:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THE "WAR ON DRUGS" WAS A FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And the funny thing is, if someone had showed me that post--------WITHOUT telling me who posted it-------and made me have to guess who it was who posted it, I know exactly who I would have said:

The idiot from Portugual, "anarchist."

Yoo, no, "anarkist", that reelly un-biased anti-amerikan amerikkkan hater who hass nevverr bin here ever, evverrr.......

-AK

(American Kid thinks anarchist is a douchebag)

[Valkyrie]

Ha! Canikickit, We were thinking the same thing!

Pfftt! Like we don't all know his IP number already that he has to announce his identity. Thus a seemingly crucial factor-- this line of demarcation, -- apparently so we won't confuse his capitalist imperialist vomit from the others.

[Stormin Norman]

"See what happens when your US government sends people off to fight their Oil Wars? They come back as indiscriminate killing machines plucking people off when they go to buy their motor oil at the gas station no less."

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he converted to Islam and was sympathetic to al Quada, than his services in the military. It is interesting this man was a body guard for Louis Farrakan, the same black leader who took millions of dollars from Lybia during the Clinton era. I say we point the finger at the radical elements of Islam rather than our own armed forces. After all, our military serves a purpose. What purpose does the Nation of Islam serve?

Further examples of the complete and utter destruction the religion of peace has caused:

Chechen rebels holding seven hundred hostages in a Moscow theater and excuting them to gain political clout

Kuwaiti people firing on the U.S. armed forces

Bombings in Bali, killing several hundred tourists

Bombing a French oil transport

Plenty of hykackings during the 70's, 80's, and 90's

The 9-11 homocidal killings of thousands of Americans

Saddam Hussein

The Saudi Government

The Taliban

Somalia

Bosnia

The Palestinian conflict

Arafat

Global Terrorism

Oh, but I am sure John Mohhamed's fanatical ideology had nothing to do with the fact that he decided to open fire on American citizens. I am sure it had more to do with the second amendment and the flawed nature of our society.

The only flaw in our society that can be faulted is the fact that we are told to embrace our enemies and avoid judging the violent and oppressive nature of other cultures. Had we been more careful about who we let into our country, John Malvo (an illegal immigrant from Jamacia) would not have been in a position to commit the crimes that he did.

Mob justice is too good for these two bastards.

[LOIC]

Stormin Norman, concerning chechen rebels, like you say their goal is politic, so why the fuck do you blame islam for it?

Concerning the sniper, usa reap what they sow. This country is full of guns and assholes(of course not all americans are assholes).
guns+assholes=murders.
It's easy to understand, even if you are a stupid capitalist.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 6:55 am on Oct. 26, 2002
"See what happens when your US government sends people off to fight their Oil Wars? They come back as indiscriminate killing machines plucking people off when they go to buy their motor oil at the gas station no less."

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he converted to Islam and was sympathetic to al Quada, than his services in the military. It is interesting this man was a body guard for Louis Farrakan, the same black leader who took millions of dollars from Lybia during the Clinton era. I say we point the finger at the radical elements of Islam rather than our own armed forces. After all, our military serves a purpose. What purpose does the Nation of Islam serve?

Further examples of the complete and utter destruction the religion of peace has caused:

Chechen rebels holding seven hundred hostages in a Moscow theater and excuting them to gain political clout

Kuwaiti people firing on the U.S. armed forces

Bombings in Bali, killing several hundred tourists

Bombing a French oil transport

Plenty of hykackings during the 70's, 80's, and 90's

The 9-11 homocidal killings of thousands of Americans

Saddam Hussein

The Saudi Government

The Taliban

Somalia

Bosnia

The Palestinian conflict

Arafat

Global Terrorism

Oh, but I am sure John Mohhamed's fanatical ideology had nothing to do with the fact that he decided to open fire on American citizens. I am sure it had more to do with the second amendment and the flawed nature of our society.

The only flaw in our society that can be faulted is the fact that we are told to embrace our enemies and avoid judging the violent and oppressive nature of other cultures. Had we been more careful about who we let into our country, John Malvo (an illegal immigrant from Jamacia) would not have been in a position to commit the crimes that he did.

Mob justice is too good for these two bastards.
Norman, you're not talking about all Muslims. You only mentioned fundamentalist Muslims. The fact is, fundamentalism itself is much more of a danger than any one religion it takes. I'd prefer a non-fundamentalist of another religion to a fundamentalist member of my religion any day.

Lindsay

[new democracy]

SN you jerk, there is a difference between taliban distortion and islam. learn the difference.

[Moskitto]

Actually CI, he was trained as a Sniper,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...per_shootings_2 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021021/ap_on_re_eu/france_us_sniper_shootings_2)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Actually, Moskitto, unless some news came out just today, I don't think he actualy was a trained sniper. He was an "expert marksman" in the US army, but that is not the same as an actual sniper.

Anyone in basic training can try to qualify as "expert marksman" with an M-16. A sniper is a specialized field, where you receive special training.

The US army confirms that he never received sniper training from them.

Am I missing something?

[Moskitto]

I'm talking about the Frenchman though...

[suffianr]

It's a set up, I smell a rat. It's too perfect, answers too many questions, points back to the Capitalist/Anti-Islam global media campaign (he just HAD to be a Muslim!), he's non-white, it's just too easy.

The identity of Jack the Ripper was never really found out, never truly ascertained. What makes you think good old Muhammad was the real trigger-happy loonybin? (The miracles of modern ballistic science and 21st Century crime-scene investigation techniques aside...)

[Stormin Norman]

SuffianR,

What an idiotic notion. I think the fact that the sniping has stopped would attest to the fact that law enforcement did their job and arrested the right people. Are you upset that these men didn't match the media's preconceived notion of a 30-40 year old loner that was white?

I pegged it from the get go. I knew it had to either be someone affiliated or sympathetic to Al Quada. However, I did not rule out the environmental terrorist types. Originally, I stated that it had to be someone with a problem with the establishment and the consumer society. Both Islamic extremists and ELF types fit the mold and could have selected the targets that they did. As time went on, I ditched the idea that it was rabid environmentalist, because the motives behind the killings seemed to be terroristic in nature. Terror for the sake of terror seemed to be behind these crimes, and a set of demands never surfaced (kind of like 9-11). The locations of the crimes and the economic impact led me to believe as I did. The movie Dirty Harry influended my belief that extortion could have also been a possibility, although I put that last on my list of possibilities.

Government conspiracy was never really an option to me, since a government's legitimacy is directly proportional to its ability to protect its citizens. Why would the government expose its own weakness and give people the idea that it was incapable of performing its most important function. When circumstances like this surface in the news, one must ask who benefits. How would the government benefit from a conspiracy, or covering up the truth? I can not think of any feasible way.

Besides, you are ignoring the facts of the case suffianr. Only a fool would call modern science a miracle, and dismiss the information obtained by employing these techniques. There is a mountain of evidence linking the two to these crimes. Voice recognition, DNA, ballistics, eye witness testimony, handwriting, the fact that the murder weapon was found in the suspects cars, not to mention that the suspects had motive and opportunity. What more do you want, suffianr. At this point, I think you would even ignore a videotaped confession from the suspects, by saying that it must have been coerced by the racist police.

There must be some deeper reason for your defense of these dirtbags. Do you have an affinity to hate everything American? Would you consider opening fire on innocent civilians because you hate what you consider their worldview to be? Are you an Islamic extremist, or symathetic to their war against modernity?

[suffianr]

Jesus, what's up your ass today?

SN, you really are straight-forward, aren't you?

Can't appreciate sarcasm, now, can you?

My reference to "miracle" and "modern science" was purely in jest, as was the notion, however perceivably idiotic you might think, that people are getting worked up with Middle-Eastern terrorist groups. I never pointed out the governmental conspiracy angle, something which you addressed, purely because it sounds, in every sense, as crazy as your own inferences concerning environmentalism! Don't confuse yourself needlessly, SN. Sometimes, you will have to read a post more than once to let the words sink into your thick head.

Oh, and aren't we quick to label people, SN? Dispense with the stereotypes, why don't you?

No, I am not an Islamic Extremist. I do not condone religious violence. Nor am I sympathetic to any "war against modernity". And neither are a majority of other practicing Muslims around the world, if you'd care to step outside your CNN-conditioned wisdom, and take a look around.

I am Socialist, religion aside.

Do not confuse my personal religious beliefs with my personal political idealogy or preferences. I have never, in the course of my interaction with the members of this board, forced any sort of religious sentiment or expounded any other idealogy than the Left, so please, no name-calling, OK? As for Islam, I was born into it, just like you were perhaps born into Christianity. Whether or not I decided to practice is entirely up to me, what I may or may not choose to evaluate for my own belief-structures is also entirely up to me, so don't go there, dude. If I can tolerate your affection for a free market (if I didn't have an ounce of tolerance, I would not even be responding to your post), then you can tolerate Socialism, too.

And I didn't call you a redneck fundamentalist Christian boy, now, did I? :)

And there are no deep feelings of sympathy towards dickhead snipers of any affiliation. I'm just trying to say that it must be very frustrating to be a Muslim nowadays. The threat of war in Iraq, the Bali bomb blasts, 9/11, Osama, Rohan Gunaratna's latest book
Inside al-Qaeda:Global Network of Terror, well, all these things are just too convenient.

I'm sure the world hasn't seen such a mystifyingly precise and highly co-ordinated attack on a bunch of people since the heady days of Mcarthyist communist witchhunts in the 50's. The media, public awareness, the questionable ethics of your government's actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Phillipines (insert banana republic here), well, things are just too smooth, too orchestrated and too well-ordered that they seem to point to something rather out of the ordinary, don't you think?

[Stormin Norman]

I had no idea that you were a muslim. You are right that you have the right to practice your religion. Simply remember that your rights end where they start to infringe on other people's rights. I would say that more than a few bad apples, who called themselves muslim are making things difficult for you in this country. So far I have yet to see a serious attempt by those 'peace loving' muslims to differentiate themselves from the violent wing of their religion, or pledge the devotion to the American way of life. Perhaps they should do a little more to condemn terrible acts rather than offering excuses for them, if they want Americans to be more sensitive to their plight. The only people that I have really seen trying to distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' muslims has been the Bush administration, the Ad Counsel, and liberal ACLU types. As far as the so called leaders of the Islamic people go, I have seen them time and time again offer excuses for Hamas, the Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbola. They seem to think that terrorist activity is a valid method of initiating political change. Maybe you differ here, but the majority of your mouth pieces seem to be excusing the exploitation of soft targets, going so far as to compare terrorism to guerilla warfare.

By the way, I live in a neighborhood predominantly composed of Muslims. I see the way they look at us Americans with distain. I am not a racist, but have been on the receiving end. Fact is, it is in the interest of our nation to quit allowing those who could potentially be hostile to the American way of life in our country. 9-11 made this point abundantly clear. Anyone who would disagree is not interested in the gravity of the situation and is buying into one of the biggest lies perpetuated on the American people. That is that everyone, no matter who they are and where they came from, has a right to the benefits enjoyed by American citizens. Immigration policy and our views of tolerance must changed if we are to survive this next worldwide stuggle. Tolerance does not mean embracing your enemies. Tolerance means respecting people's differences in opinions so long as they are not a threat to your way of life.

Let me ask you a question, suffianr. Do you think that the FBI should be infiltrating the various mosques around the country, in order to avoid another major event like Bali or September 11th?

[suffianr]

SN,

A mosque, like a church, synagogue, temple or shrine, is a place of worship. One does not simply "infiltrate" such a place.

Most places of worship are also centres for education and learning religious lore; you have bible classes in church, don't you?

Just as Buddhist monks preach on the steps of temples, and Imams (I'm sure everyone knows what an Imam is by now...) impart Qu'ranic teachings in mosques. Surely, you would not storm into a classroom, would you? Or pilfer sacred altars?

OK, back to the story. Yes, I am Muslim, by birth. By practice? That's entirely another story. I don't like pretending to show faith, but like most good Catholic boys, I grew up in a strict religious environment. And, despite years of conditioning, I rebelled during my teenage years. And turned to socialism. So, there you have it.

Whilst I may not be a practicing, shining example of Islamic youth, I do still respect my religion, the religion of my forefathers. A religion that may delved into more seriously in the future of my life. Or maybe not. Right now, I am a socialist. Not an insurgent, not a terrorist, not an extremist. Right now, my faith is my own. The Left is my choice.

It's as simple as that.

And by all means, leave no stone unturned in the pursuit of the "real" perps. Innocent deaths are not a laughing matter.