The bad jobs

[Dust Bunnies]

What would happen to the people who do bad jobs? Who would want to be a toilet cleaner or a janitor? Who would want to clean septic tanks? I've read that in Communism people can do the job they want so if you love cooking you can bake for a living without worries. Who loves to clean toilets for a living while they can be anything they want in Communism?

[piet11111]

the reasons why bad jobs are so bad is because its cheaper to have people doing this instead of designing machines to do it (or at the least make it much easier and cleaner for the operator) or in the case of bathrooms have self-cleaning ones. (yes they exist i have seen it on the discovery channel)

if there still are no people that are willing to do these jobs then i think some sort of job rotation system would be put in place where some people are called up randomly to do this sort of work when necessary . (comparable to jury duty in the united states)

[eyedrop]

Who cleans the toilet's at your place now? The people who live there comes up with a mutual agrement? I would presume that the people who work at a school (teaching place) for example, would work out an agreement for keeping their school clean. They could do it by rotation, or by lottery or whatever.

The people that work at the school wouldn't want their school to look like shit so they would figure something out. The janitor work would just be done by whoever spots it, if it's something easily fixed, or by voluntary communal work.

Notice how every sports club always gets all the practical work done by the members through voluntary communal work, at least that is how they function here. Join a local community club of some sort, in most of them all the necessary work gets done with no coercion neccesary.

For an example look at the Burnside skatepark, built by skaters for skaters. It was sure quite abit of menial boring work in constructing it.

Burnside Skatepark (http://www.skateoregon.com/Burnside/Burnside.html)

Note how they had to work in opposition to capitalism to build it, imagine if they hadn't had to steal materials and would have had a place they were allowed to put it.

[The Feral Underclass]

I've read that in Communism people can do the job they want so if you love cooking you can bake for a living without worries. Who loves to clean toilets for a living while they can be anything they want in Communism?

Creating communism is accepting that everyone has to take a role in doing socially necessary work and that means doing tasks that we might not want to do. While we can all live freely and without worry for material goods, in order to have that kind of life we need to commit ourselves to our community in doing whatever job is necessary. Broken down, this might amount to 10 hours a week.

When a man asked Karl Marx, "Yes, but who will sweep the streets" - Marx replied, "You will!".

[F9]

I know people who like cleaning,so those "bad jobs" arent so bad or some people.And even when there is a job that has its difficulty and its hard surely there are going to be volunteers for it if its in need of the community.They will clean the roads so no illnesses evolt etc.No one would want to live in a community dirty,with some crucial works not be done.I think that certainly there going too be people available to do those jobs!;)

Fuserg9:star:

[Dust Bunnies]

Thanks for answering my question.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Also read this:

Who Will Clean the Sewers? by Redstar2000 (http://rs2kpapers.awardspace.com/theory0d16.html?subaction=showfull&id=1083202823&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

[Sand Castle]

What would happen to the people who do bad jobs? Who would want to be a toilet cleaner or a janitor? Who would want to clean septic tanks? I would do those. I need a job. I put out 3 applications and haven't heard back from anyone. I contacted 2 other places. One never called me back and the other isn't hiring. So yes, there are people willing to do those jobs. :cool:

[Kami]

I would do those. I need a job. I put out 3 applications and haven't heard back from anyone. I contacted 2 other places. One never called me back and the other isn't hiring. So yes, there are people willing to do those jobs. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_cool.gif
Firstly, we're talking post-revolution. Unemployment isn't an issue.
Secondly, You've got it easy. Only been rejected from 3 jobs? :P

[Sand Castle]

Firstly, we're talking post-revolution. Unemployment isn't an issue.
Secondly, You've got it easy. Only been rejected from 3 jobs? :P

You missed my point. I said I am willing to do those, so I'm sure I'm not alone.

[eyedrop]

You missed my point. I said I am willing to do those, so I'm sure I'm not alone. Part of the point of a revolution is to make it such that no persons are put in a position where they have to spend their life doing a crappy job just to survive.
Spending 30 years cleaning toilets to just scrape by is not an acceptable way of living.

There are a lot of people willing to do such jobs now since capitalism needs to have a portion of the populace unemployed, to press down wages. In a classless society I doubt anyone would like to spend their life cleaning toilets, at least if there is low prestige in it. Noone of those kind of jobs are require long education though, so they are very interchangable, lots of people can just switch who is doing them. If someone would volunter to do a large part of the unwanted chores she/he would recieve great gratitude from the peers. Unlike today where such jobs are held in contempt.

But this is all just in the future, hard to predict how they will solve it. I got no doubt they will solve it, as we can see that all local community clubs always manage to solve it without the need for much coercion.

[F9]

Part of the point of a revolution is to make it such that no persons are put in a position where they have to spend their life doing a crappy job just to survive.


Spending 30 years cleaning toilets to just scrape by is not an acceptable way of living.

some people do not consider it as a crappy job,they even may enjoy it:ohmy:!

Fuserg9:star:

[eyedrop]

some people do not consider it as a crappy job,they even may enjoy it:ohmy:!

Fuserg9:star:

As it is now I doubt it. With all the scorn cleaning ladies gets from the schools they work at for example. There would be nothing stopping them from continuing doing it though, except that people would be thankful to them. The problem now is that people are forced into it, doing menial physical labor is quite enjoyable at times though. In a classless society some people may enjoy it, but that would be with the respect and gratitude from the rest of the society.

In capitalism it's curious how the more repetetive and boring a job is, the less the pay and prestige is, with some exceptions.

[Dust Bunnies]

the reasons why bad jobs are so bad is because its cheaper to have people doing this instead of designing machines to do it (or at the least make it much easier and cleaner for the operator) or in the case of bathrooms have self-cleaning ones. (yes they exist i have seen it on the discovery channel)

if there still are no people that are willing to do these jobs then i think some sort of job rotation system would be put in place where some people are called up randomly to do this sort of work when necessary . (comparable to jury duty in the united states)

So if part of Communism's definition (according to wikipedia) "a stateless society" how are you going to force someone do do it like jury duty in the US without a government?

[eyedrop]

So if part of Communism's definition (according to wikipedia) "a stateless society" how are you going to force someone do do it like jury duty in the US without a government?

Like this;
Letter to lazy bastard.

Hi
It seems like you have missed the last 3 sessions of voluntary communal work. Do you have any particular reasons for your absence?

BTW, you are not invited to our party next week.

Sincerely yours

Get engaged in some local community work or something, people are surprisingly able to adapt to fix such issues.

[Red Romeo]

These jobs will be handled like they are in a military barracks the people using the area will maintain it simply because it has to be done and no one else is going to.

[bluerev002]

Redstar hit a number of good points in his article. He backed what I've come to conclude: A communist society will be a society filled with immense hegemony. People will rule themselves as they do for the most part in today's society by implementing social norms, "the cleaning of the sewers" will be one of those norms, I assume, as it was stated above by whoever is using certain facilities. Such as school teachers will decide among themselves who will sweep the floors, maybe the students can do it (not as a punishment but as an act of love for their institutions).

One thing that is necessary in order to continue with this system is to put pride of labor back into actions that would otherwise be considered dirty. It was Marx's belief (correct me if I am mistaken) that the workers actually enjoy their work. A carpenter finds certain satisfactions in the creation of his tables, such as a school teacher will find satisfaction in keeping his work environment clean and a student will likewise find pleasure in learning in a clean enviroment. When capitalism came it separated a worker and his love of work with the creation of assembly lines that gave the worker no satisfaction in creating a table, etc. Communism, argued Marx, would put those two (the work and the love for work) back together.

So to add all of this together: Just as a worker will love to clean his work environment, a society will find pride in keeping their society clean.

A problem arises from my speculatinos nonetheless- the use of the word "their", the assumed ownership of "their" work enviroment. I don't know it this can constitute a problem or not. But there is my theory.

What happened to Redstar? He was one of the wisest people to have ever posted in this site.

[Dominicana_1965]

The problem with some of these questions is that they attach the current social and bourgeois norms to a communist society as if such norms will be held eternally. One can't really tell whether it'll be even necessary for someone to "clean" or if society will be more than happy to clean toilets since they'll have more free-time, etc.

[Bastable]

In a Workers Council, the people would cycle through the 'good' jobs and the 'bad' jobs, sharing both equally. Included in those jobs would be janitorial work, late shifts, sewage cleaning etc.

[shorelinetrance]

jesus christ, i'll clean every toilet in the world just to refute this idiot argument.

all "badjobs" would be done communally, i don't like saying badjobs, because they are necessary jobs, with proper infrastructure cleaning work places/anywhere could be done with relative eaze.

[bluerev002]

jesus christ, i'll clean every toilet in the world just to refute this idiot argument.

all "badjobs" would be done communally, i don't like saying badjobs, because they are necessary jobs, with proper infrastructure cleaning work places/anywhere could be done with relative eaze.

Well yes they may be communally necessary, but they are not something that someone jumps at the opportunity to volunteer for it. "Bad jobs" or "unwanted jobs", whatever the name they are jobs that an average capitalistic person will try their best to avoid. It's why in ever first world country immigrants do the so-called "bad jobs" I

t is necessary to address these issues now instead of saying "in a communist society people will do this and this and that", it's not a magical wand, these things need to be implemented little by little and in order to do so the problems need to me first recognized in order to be addressed.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

I like this thread.
I can think of several jobs worse then cleaning toilets. :D

Anyway, I do know two people who would likely do janitorial work, even given the chance to do something else (assuming they were paid enough to live comfortably.)

One likes janitorial work because it is mindless; he can put on headphones and drift in his own day-dreaming world while excelling at his job.

The other works as a maid at a motel. She likes her work because she gets paid for full-time, even if she finishes ahead of schedule (which she always does because she's had so much practice) and because she gets to keep all of the beer and weed people leave after check-out or tip her with (she gets a lot of beer and weed.)

[The Feral Underclass]

Well yes they may be communally necessary, but they are not something that someone jumps at the opportunity to volunteer for it. "Bad jobs" or "unwanted jobs", whatever the name they are jobs that an average capitalistic person will try their best to avoid. It's why in ever first world country immigrants do the so-called "bad jobs" I

t is necessary to address these issues now instead of saying "in a communist society people will do this and this and that", it's not a magical wand, these things need to be implemented little by little and in order to do so the problems need to me first recognized in order to be addressed.

We will clean toilets because we have to, not becaue we enjoy it.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Though this is also missing some rather important points, namely that under a communist society technology will be harnessed towards human needs and what not is profitable. Thus we will seek to automate out as much dangerous and undesirable work as possible. Cleaning robots? Why not?