Question - stalinism

[Revolution2002]

Can somebody please give me a good defenition of stalinism, a few examples of stalinist parties from today and their relations with other leninistmaosist whatever groups?
even a few things about the differences in ideology would help me...

[Cassius Clay]

There is no such thing as a 'Stalinist' party, parties that support Stalin tend to just call themselves Marxist-Leninist. However there is a difference between Communist Parties who support the USSR up until Gorby and those that actually blame Khruschev and Brezheve for the fall of Socialism in USSR. The latter is what you could call a 'Stalinist' policy.

The one main defintion of 'Stalinism' I suppose would be the theory of 'Socialism in One Country'. This is basically that if the rest of the world is not ready for a revolution then the workers should not have to have it imposed on them by force.

Examples of 'Stalinism' in practice would be USSR from 1924-53 and Albania from 1945-85. Basic princeples of 'Stalinism' apart from 'Socialism in One Country' would be workers democracy, fighting against beucracy and as much equality as is possible with Socialism especially when it is restricted to just a few nations. I will admit that there are certain disadvanteges to this but it is alot better than the alternative.

[new democracy]

good to see you back!!! i saw some of your posts in practice, and i am glad to see more comrades from israel(check his profile). here is a library of stalinist theory: http://www.marx2mao.org/ . R2002, remember when stalin was popular here?

[new democracy]

if you support socialism in one country, collectivesion, and purges you are a stalinist. i suggest you will follow mazdak posts.

[James]

which is an utter bullshit thing to say.

I'm not a "stalinist"

But i find my self agreeing with mazdak alot of the time these days...

[RGacky3]

I am not a stalinist either, but as I have seen so far most of the stalinists have been more mature and rational that the liberals.

[new democracy]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 12:36 am on Oct. 21, 2002
I am not a stalinist either, but as I have seen so far most of the stalinists have been more mature and rational that the liberals.
what was that!? did you saw ts latast hate thread( http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=22&topic=1171 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1171) )!?

(Edited by new democracy at 12:40 am on Oct. 21, 2002)

[GUTB]

Stalinists are recognizable by their appologies for Stalinist regimes, love of autocratic state-control (as opposed to democratic proletariet control), strident beliefe in socialism in one country -- and, very often, various modes of class-coloboration. They are the lasting legacy of the USSR and all that it spawned.

Another thing that marks Stalinists: none of them admit to being one :)

As far as race hate goes -- just another backwards and barbaric legacy of the class society. Once one comprehends that all people are the same, such race divisions become nothing more than acedemic. Comrades all over the world asay and do the same things. Comrades in Israel, for example, support the comrades in Arab nations, and vice-versa. Comrades in France fully support and understand their comrads in England -- and in Japan, Australia, Russia, Canada, the United States, Mexico, and wherever else Marxist-Leninists exist! Truly the answer to world peace lies in Communism. It's so obvious, so self-evident that one needs not even discuss the issue!

[James]

ND.


go away nazi ****!!!! i have allready sent malte a message calling to block your ip.


Hello nd, what have you noticed about this thread.

Guest starts a thread which is interesting and different. I, like AK, can see WHAT the guest is saying - but of course i don't agree with nazis. And i'm sure guest doesn't either - just trying to discover WHY Hitler killed so many. His/hers reasons are far better than that anyone else sugested on that thread "he was just paranoid"...oh i see, all clear now! bit simple that isn't it.

I think its when people write more than a few lines, you start to slip up ND. Did you read what guest said?

No you didnt

You just got on ye olde white horse, and started to cry for a banning. Why? Because someone THINKS DIFFERENT TO YOURSELF. If anything, i think you should be banned for such a thing nd.

Your arguments are so flawed. You don't suggest ANY OTHER METHODS, you just *****, and suggest a banning. Your the type of crap that made Che-lives go bad in the first place.



(Edited by James at 1:02 pm on Oct. 21, 2002)

[new democracy]

yes James, i have read it. if you actually read it, you will see that he said that jews are greedy. also search for "osama might be a hero" thread. you will see what ts have to say there.


Quote: from Guest(thine stalin) on 11:50 pm on Oct. 20, 2002
Think about it, what do jews like to do besides make lots of money? Well they like to complain alot, Jews are constantly a thorn in the side of ANY goverment, they get into important positions and then complain, they do it in the U.S despite the U.S being incredibly pro-israel and god damn, they do it in israel too. Remember what Leonid said (yuriandropov) he explained that everytime there was some trouble, a Jew was always behind it, so not to justify hitler killing them all, but to explain why he did. Hitler didn't want people holding back the 3rd reich.

and from what members told me he said that he is both a communist and a nazi.

(Edited by new democracy at 1:29 pm on Oct. 21, 2002)

[James]

ahem, did you read my post?

[new democracy]

i did read it, and even again in case i missed a point. now did you read the "jews are greedy" part? and ts has said(at least that what the memebers told me)that he is both a communist and a nazi. in case you didn't understood, the Guest is thine stalin.

(Edited by new democracy at 1:45 pm on Oct. 21, 2002)

[James]

did you read my post though properly> Go through it again, and try and find the key phrase.

I didn't know it was thine stalin, but i do now.

"Examin what is said, not who that says it"

[new democracy]

i know this thread is asking why hitler killed so many but it also said that jews are greedy. you can't deny that ts didn't said that. it is not the topic of the thread that make me mad, it was the "jews are greedy" part.

(Edited by new democracy at 2:09 pm on Oct. 21, 2002)

[James]

hm, i would have said that the guest was actually saying what hitler and co believed...but its thine...so never too sure. Need thine to actually state whether or not he believes "jews" are "greedy".

Personally i'd say all humans are greedy, so he was sort of right. But at the same time, so very very wrong

[Cassius Clay]

This is all fundamentaly flawed and wrong.

''Stalinists are recognizable by their appologies for Stalinist regimes, love of autocratic state-control (as opposed to democratic proletariet control), strident beliefe in socialism in one country -- and, very often, various modes of class-coloboration. They are the lasting legacy of the USSR and all that it spawned.''

I as a supporter of Stalin support 'democratic proletariet control' as much as the next Marxist. I am not some autocrat (make no mistake about it that was Trotsky) who believes that everybody who disagrees should be shot. Yet you try to portray Stalin as somebody who did this, why don't you put down your Robert Conquest book and do some research?

'Apologies' I will make no apology for the workers and peasants state that existed in the USSR under Lenin and Stalin. The theory of 'Socialism in one Country' is only put into practice when the circumstances of the day dictate that it is the most practicle thing to do. No 'Strident Belief'.


''Another thing that marks Stalinists: none of them admit to being one :)''

That's because there is no such thing.

[Iepilei]

I'm Marxist-Leninist and I don't agree with Stalin's concepts.

I don't hate the man either.

I just feel their foreign policy allowed them to be stigmatised by the US and other capitalist, propaganda machines.

You try to fight the blind and they'll fight back; even if they cannot see the truth.

[James]

group hug

[Guest]

It seems like you just single out one line on a thread ND and then use that to bad mouth people you don't like, man, if I ever did that to you most people would see how fucking stupid and close minded you are.

You just don't -care- what the thread was about, all you care about is the fact I said that I think jews are greedy, Oh-my-god, how could I say that terrible untrue thing? Are you greedy ND? Is your dog greedy? Do you not put yourself first? If you don't, then you sir, are not a living, reasoning animal.

And wtf about osama might be a hero, I don't remember that thread at all, but Ima search it up.

[new democracy]

thine, you are anti semite. saying jews are greedy is anti semite. and i don't always put myself first. it is not like i am doing everything and never care about myself, but i don't always think only about myself.


And wtf about osama might be a hero, I don't remember that thread at all, but Ima search it up.
here: http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...c=615&start=100 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=17&topic=615&start=100) . and did you know that a nazi leader from germany also praised the wtc attack? and another great stuff thine said


Quote: from Thine Stalin on 3:58 am on June 22, 2002
Nazi's and communists have more in common with eachother than anarchists and communists, but you still find more common ground with them somehow.. don't let the race thing turn you away.


from: http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...ic=559&start=40 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=559&start=40) . and i din't read the entire thread, so i think i will see more things like that if i will take the time to read the entire thread.

[James]

Nazi's and communists have more in common with eachother than anarchists and communists, but you still find more common ground with them somehow.. don't let the race thing turn you away.


That, is kind of true ND.

[new democracy]

i will admit that i don't want to live in the ussr. some more quotes from thine:


Quote: from Thine Stalin on 4:10 pm on June 29, 2002
I feel more brotherhood with nazis than anarchists, as should all communists. Anarchists are just capitalists who want no goverment to control their already overly powerful economy, putting the rich that one step more above everyone else.



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 9:18 pm on June 29, 2002
Communists and nazi's are very similiar, they have ideals similiar to the current ones in use by european nations. Apart from the racial disagreements, we are very similiar politically.



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 6:02 pm on June 30, 2002
Many nazi's were prolateriat, the starters of the nazi movement in germany was the prolateriat. To put dogs above human beings is wrong, to put anything above the people is wrong.



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 10:22 pm on June 30, 2002
Ok, both(nazis and communists)believe in welfare, argue that into the ground so I can give another, don't wanna make your hands too tired, you know?



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 3:13 am on July 1, 2002
No it was one example, I didn't care to waste time giving off a list when it won't change your opinions so why not just give a generic one?

Whatever though, Nazi's believe in a strong central goverment too, then I don't care honestly, its too hot to just sit here and type out bullsh*t to keep you occupied in wasting your time just to prove me wrong when i couldn't honestly care less.

Fine, nazi's believe in equality(not your 3rd reich, just don't use that as example), nazi's believe in one party, what the f*ck more do you want?



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 2:13 am on July 2, 2002

Quote: from Red Revolution on 10:08 pm on July 1, 2002
Nazis have a lot more differences than similarities to communism.

- A nazi government will use persicution to promote its cause.

- Not all businesses would be nationalized.

- The nation would be re-built upon a military dictatorship.

- All negotiations with any other country would be stopped

- Instead of wanting the world as a whole communist, a nazi wants to compete with other countries to create an empire and to test the greatness of its military (very imperialistic)

-The organization of the country under nazism would be more like ancient Egypt than modern thinking.

national socialism, a contradiction in terms?


Most of that is wrong..

Communist goverments frequently use persecution as a means to gain power and promote its cause, Oh.. I forget, according you liberals there was no real communist goverment.

Nazism doesn't intend for all business' to be nationalized, and you liberal communists shouldn't want that either.

This does not deserve reply, how the fuck would you know if it was based on a military dictatorship, are you basing everything on the 3rd reich?

Hitler had negotiations with the british up until nearly the end of the war, he offered numerous peace treaties, and don't think I am trying to justify hitler. Hitler also shrewdly negotiated the invasion of Poland with the USSR

Where'd you get that from? Hitler wanted the entire world to be Nazi, and extremely segregated, hell he didn't even intend on wiping out the jews, he just wanted to relocate them, and when this was no possible, he killed them, he didn't care whether they died, they weren't people to him anyway. But it wasn't his original intention to cause the holocaust

Ancient Egypt was a liberal monarchy, and hitler didn't want jews in his nation, much less as slaves.



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 3:02 am on July 5, 2002
We(nazis and communists)share common goals, we both want equality for all the people, even if the level of equalness is different for us both. I think that in the unlikley scenario of a communist revolution in america, I would fight with you as comrades, but don't expect me not to stab you in the back craftily once you've served your purpose, no just kidding, but you shouldn't expect any stalinist not to put his agenda before your own.



Quote: from Thine Stalin on 10:48 pm on July 6, 2002
Of course being nazi raises people's eyebrows, ever tried checking out, 'mein kampf' from the library? Heh, its an expierence.

Mein kampf isn't that great of a book by the way, it seems like hitler's way of ranting about nothings.

In my image of a perfect goverment, nothing would happen to the present jews, I wouldn't allow future immigrants, from ANY country, just as I wouldn't allow any dissidents to leave and spread lies to make people hate my country. I also would force religon to be a private affair, keep it in your home or be fined, I don't care what religon you are.

I don't enjoy the stereotypical jewish culture, but I don't hate the jews personally or them entirely as a 'race' or religon.

[James]

i understand alot of the stuff Thine is trying to say.

ND. Thine is talking about COMMUNISM, NOT liberal democracy...

[Guest]

I hope ND reads what he quoted, I say numerous times I don't want to justify hitler and I'm not an advocate of the 3rd reich OR the persecution of jews.