The collapse of the USSR predicted

[nvm]

In 1936, the phenomenon of Stalinism was entirely new and unexpected. It was not explained or even anticipated in the classical texts of Marx and Engels. In his last writings, Lenin expressed his concern about the rise of bureaucracy in the Soviet state, which he warned could destroy the regime of October. But Lenin thought that the prolonged isolation of the Russian workers' state would inevitably lead to capitalist restoration. This eventually occurred, but after a period of seven decades, during which the Soviet workers lost political power and the democratic regime established by the Bolsheviks in 1917 was transformed into a monstrous bureaucratic and totalitarian caricature. Only the nationalised property forms and planned economy established by the revolution remained.
In The Revolution Betrayed, Trotsky provided a brilliant and profound analysis of Stalinism from the Marxist standpoint. His analysis has never been improved upon, let alone superseded. With a delay of 60 years, it has been completely vindicated by history. Trotsky warned that the Bureaucracy was placing the nationalised planned economy and the Soviet Union in danger. In reply, he was subjected to an unparalleled campaign of vilification by the "friends of the Soviet Union". Today, all those so-called Communists and fellow travellers who sang the praises of Stalin and ridiculed Trotsky, hang their heads. Most of them have deserted the camp of Communism and Socialism altogether. The few that remain have nothing to say about what has happened to the Soviet Union. Not one of them can provide a Marxist analysis of the collapse of the USSR. But this is precisely what the new generation (and the best of the old generation also) are insistently demanding. They will find no answer to their questions from their leaders. But in the pages of The Revolution Betrayed they will find that Trotsky not only predicted the outcome sixty years in advance, but analyses it and explains it from a Marxist standpoint

[Holden Caulfield]

Nietzsche predicted the Russian Revolution and the Cold War in 'beyond good and evil' beat that one,

[Led Zeppelin]

Nietzsche predicted the Russian Revolution and the Cold War in 'beyond good and evil' beat that one,

Where did he predict this?

[Holden Caulfield]

this is Fredrich Nietzsche predicting the events of the Russian revolution and the Cold War/ 20th centuary geo-poltics in his 19th centuary book 'Beyond Good & Evil'

i may have filled in some of the blanks with some wedges of hindsight but:



The strength to will, and to will for a long time, is somewhat stronger already in Germany, and stronger again in the north of Germany than in the centre of Germany; considerably stronger in Englad, Spain and Corsica, there is association with dullness, here with hardness of head - not to speak of Italy, which is too young to know what it wants and first has to prove whether it is capble of willing - but strongest of all and most astonishing in that huge empire-in-between, where europe as it wer eflows back into Asiam in Russia.

There the strength to will has for long been stored up and kept in reserve, there it is waiting menacingly - uncertain whether it is a will to deny or a will to affirm - in readiness to discharge itself, to borrow one of the physicians favourite words. It may only need wars in Asia to relieve it


and then on the same chapter and page he goes on to say



...such and increase in the Russian threat that Europe would have to resolve to become equally threatening, mainly to accuire a single will, by means of a new caste dominating a;; Europe, a protracted terrible will of its own which could set could set its objectives a thousand years ahead - so that the long-drawn-out comedy of its petty states and the divided will of it dynasties and democracies shpuld finally come to and end. The time for petty politics is past: the very next centuary will bring with it the struggle for mastery over the whole earth - the compulsion to grand politics.

[Led Zeppelin]

That's pretty abstract and open to interpretation, though.

[Holden Caulfield]

and interpret it i have,

[BIG BROTHER]

Che Guevara also predicted the "restoration" of capitalism in the Soviet Union.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Indeed he did, but he didn't advocate the same thing as Trotsky did ("political revolution") to correct the problems.

[Dros]

`(H)ow could it come to pass that at a time like this, after all the economic successes, after the ``abolition'' --- according to official assurances --- of classes in the USSR and the ``construction'' of the socialist society, how could it come to pass that Old Bolsheviks ... could have posed for their task the restoration of capitalism

`Only utter imbeciles would be capable of thinking that capitalist relations, that is to say, the private ownership of the means of production, including the land, can be reestablished in the USSR by peaceful methods and lead to the régime of bourgeois democracy. As a matter of fact, even if it were possible in general, capitalism could not be regenerated in Russia except as the result of a savage counterrevolutionary coup d'etat that would cost ten times as many victims as the October Revolution and the civil war.'

Emphasis mine.

[Dros]

Nietzsche predicted the Russian Revolution and the Cold War in 'beyond good and evil' beat that one,

Nostradamus predicted World War II and everything else that ever happened EVER!
:lol::lol::lol:;)

[Redmau5]

Emphasis mine.

See the thing is, The Revolution Betrayed was published in 1936, two years after Trotsky made the statement which you quoted.

By the way, where did you find that quote?

[Holden Caulfield]

Nostradamus predicted World War II and everything else that ever happened EVER!
quotes?

[Dros]

See the thing is, The Revolution Betrayed was published in 1936, two years after Trotsky made the statement which you quoted.

I'm aware of that. Clearly, this proves that Trotsky was, in his own words, an imbecile!:D


By the way, where did you find that quote?

Writings Vol.7 p.116

[Led Zeppelin]

Emphasis mine.

You emphasized the part which was most irrelevant, while ignoring the rest of the statement.

Yes, it is true that in Revolution Betrayed he said it would cost many more lives if capitalist relations were to be restored, but he was writing this in 1936, later on he said that it was entirely possible for the bureaucracy to "trade in their communist party cards for capitalist party cards", that was after the Great purge, that is, after the bureaucracy fully consolidated itself.

I can find quotes of Stalin and his supporters saying that the final victory of socialism was achieved in the USSR and that it could therefore never revert back to capitalism, though.

[nvm]

From what I 've got there's no point on arguing with Stalinists .
They are dead meat with no influence in the left , or they are slowly dieing.

It's a pity that they are still trying to uphold their perverted views on history and politics, while they are hated among the rest of the left.
Is it stupidity and ignorance ? Is it their egotistical pride that makes them not admit their mistakes ?
Whatever it is it should be swept away.
We had enough of those counter-revolutionaries.

[Redmau5]

Clearly, this proves that Trotsky was, in his own words, an imbecile!

Because he made an up to date, correct analysis of the bureaucracy in the USSR two years after that initial statement?

[Dros]

I can find quotes of Stalin and his supporters saying that the final victory of socialism was achieved in the USSR and that it could therefore never revert back to capitalism, though.

Good for you. Mind reminding me why I would care? I don't recall making the absurd claim that Stalin had foreseen the downfall of socialism.


From what I 've got there's no point on arguing with Stalinists .
They are dead meat with no influence in the left , or they are slowly dieing.
:lol::lol::lol:

That's funny. Why don't you let me know when your irrelevant sect gets enough support to seize state power anywhere in the world.


It's a pity that they are still trying to uphold their perverted views on history and politics, while they are hated among the rest of the left.
Is it stupidity and ignorance ? Is it their egotistical pride that makes them not admit their mistakes ?
Whatever it is it should be swept away.
We had enough of those counter-revolutionaries.

Oh it's so sad. See, I told everyone you were trolling but they didn't believe me. I guess I should thank you then.


Because he made an up to date, correct analysis of the bureaucracy in the USSR two years after that initial statement?

Did you see the smiley? That was clearly a joke.

The point that I was attempting to make, and obviously you didn't get, was that the OP's rather religious admiration for Trotsky's ability to predict the future might be misplaced, considering as he had made several rather strong statements to the contrary only two short years before.

[Led Zeppelin]

Good for you. Mind reminding me why I would care? I don't recall making the absurd claim that Stalin had foreseen the downfall of socialism.

You have no problems with criticizing Trotsky for that "miss-prediction" (which he later corrected!), but you will not do the same with Stalin.

If you're not going to do the latter, then don't do the former either, that is, if you don't want your sectarianism to be exposed.

[Dros]

You have no problems with criticizing Trotsky for that "miss-prediction" (which he later corrected!), but you will not do the same with Stalin.

That would make a lot of sense if it wasn't for the fact that in all of the threads about Stalin I've pointed out many of his numerous errors for which I and all other Maoists are sharply critical of him for. This is a simply untrue statement.


If you're not going to do the latter, then don't do the former either, that is, if you don't want your sectarianism to be exposed.

Considering my member title and the fact that I've started a thread explaining why I think sectarianism (in certain forms) is a good thing, I doubt that there is any more "exposing" to be done in this department considering I've repeatedly stated that I'm sectarian (in the good way)!