irish working class deals blow to EU imperialist project

[Zurdito]

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4128055.ece

This calls for a celebration. :)

[Wanted Man]

So does this kill the thing dead? Because the Dutch government is giving a big 'fuck you' (not only to the Irish, but also to the French and Dutch who rejected the Constitution in 2005) and will still ratify the treaty. What happens next?

[Vendetta]

What is this Lisbon Treaty?

[BIG BROTHER]

Pardon my ignorance,but whats the lisbon treaty about?

[An archist]

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4128055.ece

This calls for a celebration. :)

Cookies for everyone!

[Zurdito]

Cookies for everyone!

I'll go get the warm milk.

[BOZG]

Yes, you may worship us.

[Herman]

What happens now is that other countries will probably ratify the treaty in their respective parliament and make a deal with the Irish government.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The Lisbon Treaty is basically a newer version of the EU Constitution that was rejected earlier.

Ireland voted it down, but in the other countries the governments will decided whether or not to ratify. It looks like they'll all ratify it. It won't become law though, because of Ireland's no vote. Ireland with then have some standing in negotiations over how to move forward.

[BIG BROTHER]

The Lisbon Treaty is basically a newer version of the EU Constitution that was rejected earlier.

Ireland voted it down, but in the other countries the governments will decided whether or not to ratify. It looks like they'll all ratify it. It won't become law though, because of Ireland's no vote. Ireland with then have some standing in negotiations over how to move forward.

and what does the constitution entitle? or how is it imperialist?

[Zurdito]

and what does the constitution entitle? or how is it imperialist?

it's an attempt to unite and strengthen the european bourgeoisie's powers to co-ordinate financial policy and "defence" policy. basically, the bourgeoisie's of the major European powers - France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and increasinlgy Britain (though Britain is divided, with half of the bourgeosiie wanting to stay playing "middle man" between the US an europe) - wanting to create a strong united imperialist bloc in Europe to rival the US. A bloc based on aggressively seeking to exploit the third world, and built on remodelling the economies of Europe along the lines of the US - i.e., end of the welfare states of Europe.

[BIG BROTHER]

it's an attempt to unite and strengthen the european bourgeoisie's powers to co-ordinate financial policy and "defence" policy. basically, the bourgeoisie's of the major European powers - France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and increasinlgy Britain (though Britain is divided, with half of the bourgeosiie wanting to stay playing "middle man" between the US an europe) - wanting to create a strong united imperialist bloc in Europe to rival the US. A bloc based on aggressively seeking to exploit the third world, and built on remodelling the economies of Europe along the lines of the US - i.e., end of the welfare states of Europe.

ahhh. Well now I'm kinda worried. The president of Brazil, wants to do something similar with south america.

[Wanted Man]

It won't become law though, because of Ireland's no vote. Ireland with then have some standing in negotiations over how to move forward.
Yup. I wonder what they will think of next, though. Probably yet another treaty, even more dressed-down. In Holland, they simply said: "Okay, the EU Constitution was voted down in a binding referendum, so we'll stick to that decision". But then the new government (with the Christian-Democrats remaining as always) had a different plan for Lisbon: "We don't feel a referendum is necessary or desirable at this point." So I'm sure they'll come up with other ways to sneak this stuff in.

But until then, congratulations to the Irish. :p

[Redmau5]

Great victory today, especially considering that the entire political establishment (including Labour) and most of the press were weighted heavily in favour of a Yes vote.

[Coggeh]

lisbon treaty was a BS deal for workers not only in Ireland but in all of Europe and the one place they put it to the people in probably one of the most pro-eu nations it got a resounding "GO FUCK YOURSELF" :D

[Qwerty Dvorak]

It's great that you can all assume that our voting down the Treaty was a good thing without even so much as a look at the Treaty itself.

[BOZG]

It's great that you can all assume that our voting down the Treaty was a good thing without even so much as a look at the Treaty itself.

Defeating a Treaty that talks about liberalisation, free markets and competition and a Treaty that's supported by employers' confederations throughout Europe is never a bad thing. Unless of course, the bourgeoisie has rejected its entire existence and is now serious about defending workers' rights.

[Asoka89]

ahhh. Well now I'm kinda worried. The president of Brazil, wants to do something similar with south america.

haha that's so false on so many different levels.

[An archist]

Hehe, most newspapers here are saying Europe has a problem because a small country such as Ireland can block a treaty while all other countries all agree.
Clearly they're missing the point, France and the Netherlands already shot down the previous treaty by referendum, the only reason this treaty was accpeted by other countries was because there was no referendum in those countries.
They just don't seem to understand we don't want their EU.

[RaiseYourVoice]

Statement from the KKE about the irish "no"


Dear comrades,
Warm congratulations to the working class, the small farmers,
the young people and women, to all working people of the cities, of
the rural areas, of the sea, for the strong No vote to the Lisbon
Treaty.
The people of Ireland gave a proud response to the blackmail,
the threats and pressures extended by the dominant forces, big
capital, the political elites, the representatives of plutocracy, the
EU bureaucracy.
A significant step forward has been made that indicates that the
working people are not willing to surrender their rights and future
for the sake of the interests of the monopolies, militarism, and
imperialist institutions.
The peoples should beware of the efforts of the ruling classes
to mislead them. There can be no other, “better” version of this twice-
rejected treaty. No “progressive,” pro-people treaty can be drafted
for a reactionary and imperialist union of big capital.
We kindly ask you to convey our congratulations to your members
and friends for their contribution to this great battle and this
result, which represents a major victory for all the workers and the
peoples of the European Union countries. It sends a message of
optimism to all people across the world!

[TheDifferenceEngine]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it amusing that on a site called REVOLUTIONARY left, so many of it's members actually place faith in western "democracy"

[Zurdito]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it amusing that on a site called REVOLUTIONARY left, so many of it's members actually place faith in western "democracy"

Why? Real revolutionaries have a tradition of defendign the demcoratic gains of the working class in any society as part of the process fo building for a revolution. It's pretty ultra-left and sectyarian to just say "it's a pile of bourgeois crap" and stay out of reformist struggles altogether. the working class begins with trade union consciosuness and we have to critically support those struggles in order to build a revolutionary movement.

[ComradeOm]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it amusing that on a site called REVOLUTIONARY left, so many of it's members actually place faith in western "democracy"This was a referendum, not an election. Unless you have a problem with the very act of casting a ballot...?

[Wanted Man]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it amusing that on a site called REVOLUTIONARY left, so many of it's members actually place faith in western "democracy"
Yeah, defeating a vast neo-liberal project is nothing more than putting your faith in western "democracy". :rolleyes:

Obviously, celebration shouldn't take too long. They'll think of other ways to push this through. We've seen that after the EU Constitution vote in France and the Netherlands. Three years ago, there were very big powers at work. Let's recap 2005 for a moment.

For one, the leadership of the biggest Dutch union called for a 'yes' vote, as well as all major newspapers and every single political party except for the Socialists, the right-wing nationalists and two ultra-conservative Christian parties (one of which is in government today, and no longer asks for a referendum...). A Christian-Democrat MEP (who is Minister of Transport today) shrieked that oppositionists were lining up behind 'the French communists and the extreme-right Front National of Le Pen'.

The 'yes' campaign received millions of euros of extra funding, and several ministers went on the record saying that 'the lights will go out' and 'the Netherlands will not be taken seriously internationally' in case of a no vote. On the night before the vote, the public broadcasting service's news suddenly said that it was going to be a neck-to-neck race, and that doubtful votes would vote 'yes' at the last minute. Of course, in reality, by that time the gap was already so large that it could only ever be a no. Almost all municipalities had a majority 'no' vote, except for some of the extremely rich villages.

So then they came up with Lisbon. Our Labour party demanded a referendum on Lisbon in their electoral program. But once they became part of the government (about one and a half year after the referendum), they suddenly decided that a referendum was 'not necessary at this point'.

They'll do whatever it takes to push this through. But that only increases the necessity of defending our democratic gains, which would not exist if they had not been fought for over the years. It's pretty easy to pose as a 'radical' on the internet and denounce any concrete action to defend the gains of the working class, but reality is a bit different.