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View Full Version : Socialist Chavez not very popular in Venzuela - Because Marx



Solzhenitsyn
11th October 2002, 20:41
CARACAS, Venezuela - About a million Venezuelans marched in the capital Thursday demanding that President Hugo Chavez call early elections or a referendum on his rule — and threatening a general strike if he didn't do so before Wednesday.

Venezuelans Protest Against Chavez
(AP Video)



Cries of "strike! strike!" and "Not one step back!" rose up from the crowd. Venezuela's biggest labor and business groups responded to the clamor immediately, announcing an Oct. 21 strike if Chavez didn't meet the Wednesday deadline.

Chavez will respond to the strike threat by the Venezuelan Workers Confederation and the Fedecamaras business chamber at a Sunday rally, said Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel.

Chavez, whose term ends in 2007, has insisted he won't quit or call new elections.

"We cannot accept challenges and threats. Democracy doesn't work that way," Rangel said. He noted it would take months to create a competent elections council and update voter rolls for any election.

Fedecamaras, which represents 70 percent of Venezuela's non-oil production, and the CTV labor confederation last called a general strike in April to protest Chavez's handling of the battered economy. That strike sparked a short-lived coup and virtually stopped oil production in Venezuela, a top oil supplier to the United States.

Carlos Ortega, head of the 1 million-member labor confederation, issued the ultimatum at the end of the opposition march. He didn't say how long a strike might last.

Organizers and Caracas Fire Chief Rodolfo Briceno estimated that 1 million people attended the demonstration — the biggest since troops and Chavez supporters confronted a 600,000-strong opposition march on the presidential palace April 11.

Shooting that day killed 19 people and provoked a two-day military coup before loyalist troops restored Chavez to power.

The government deployed troops across Caracas Thursday as marchers packed the six-lane Avenida Libertador running through the heart of the city. National Guardsmen cordoned off the presidential palace and Congress, and most downtown stores were closed.

Just days ago, Chavez claimed he had uncovered another coup plot against his leftist government. Secret police raided the homes of several officers suspected of participating in the April coup.

A top military official offered his resignation Thursday, protesting the police raids and other alleged abuses against officers accused of subversion in April.

Navy Vice Adm. Alvaro Martin Fossa accused Defense Minister Jose Luis Prieto of persecuting suspect officers. He added that he himself had received anonymous threats. "The most honorable thing to do is resign," said the 30-year armed forces veteran.

On Thursday, a civilian was killed in shooting between police and Chavez supporters in the central state of Guarico, said police Col. Alberto Betancourt.

Another shootout erupted in the western state of Carabobo when police dispersed Chavez supporters who used hijacked trucks to block a highway to the capital. Three civilians and one police officer were wounded, said Carabobo public security secretary Antonio Mustafd.

Citing the threat of violence, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) urged Venezuelans "to act with patience and moderation" and to support international efforts to broker peace talks.

Chavez said he told Annan in a telephone call that "everything is normal in Venezuela."

With no serious contender emerging from Venezuela's massive yet disorganized opposition, Chavez has welcomed a possible referendum next year.

Labor and business groups believe a general strike will force Chavez to resign. But Venezuela's largest oil union, Fedepetrol, said it won't join a strike after the government agreed to a 35 percent wage hike.

The Organization of American States has warned the opposition against an indefinite strike that could destabilize one of the top four oil exporters to the United States. A strike would be the third against Chavez in less than a year.

Chavez foes say he can't manage Venezuela's economy, which is in recession, and has driven a wedge between rich and poor. Chavez blames Venezuela's economic and political turmoil on business and labor leaders besieging him with strikes and protests. The opposition-aligned news media, he claims, downplays his accomplishments. Thursday's Caracas newspapers carried headlines such as "Elections Now!"

Venezolano
12th October 2002, 09:54
this is very true. Chavez is hated in Venezuela, and i can tell that because im venezuelan, i came here months ago saying this and the communists from this page started flaming me.

Solzhenitsyn
12th October 2002, 11:56
Venezolano,

Very true! I keep posting things like this and the best they can come up with is conspiracy theories. The next thing they'll claim is that G8, in conjunction with the Bilderburgers, Freemasons, Knights of Malta, Vatican and the Trilateral Commision, is suppressing socialism world wide through mental telepathic technique from their secret base in the Pentagon.

Guardia Bolivariano
12th October 2002, 15:16
You forget that 80% of the population is poor in venezuelan and the mayority of the people who protest are rich or have a good place on the economic scale.If everybody hated our truely great president Chavez ,he woulnd't have been safe from the coup and posible murdre plan.The oposicion only wants him out because they lost the power that they use to have and they can't stand a goverment that cares for the poor and most importantly doesn't give in to the US demands.And for those who say the army is totaly agaisnt him does Baduel ring a bell?Face It you can't stop our beautyfull revolution. NO PASARAN!

Panamarisen
12th October 2002, 15:25
I am with you, GB! :wink:

Damn it, HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

Venezolano
13th October 2002, 05:47
Quote: from Guardia Bolivariano on 3:16 pm on Oct. 12, 2002
You forget that 80% of the population is poor in venezuelan and the mayority of the people who protest are rich or have a good place on the economic scale.If everybody hated our truely great president Chavez ,he woulnd't have been safe from the coup and posible murdre plan.The oposicion only wants him out because they lost the power that they use to have and they can't stand a goverment that cares for the poor and most importantly doesn't give in to the US demands.And for those who say the army is totaly agaisnt him does Baduel ring a bell?Face It you can't stop our beautyfull revolution. NO PASARAN!


Guardia Bolivariano is just talking bullshit, ignore this guy.... people like guardia bolivariano are those who are fanatics that will support chavez even if they know chavez is wrong.... only 1% of the venezuelan population is fanatic like this guardia bolivariano.
So you are saying that the 1.5 million people that protested in caracas were rich people? lol jajaja bullshit... everytime the oposition makes a protest they always get 1 million or 500.000 people to the streets... everytime chavez convoques a pro chavez march less than 5.000 go to the streets.... chavez lost the support from the poor people... even the poor people hate chavez... and we all know chavez's sniper killed 19 people on abril 11.

Lo que devolvio a chavez al poder el 13 de abril fueron los militares mamahuevos que estaban arrechos luego de que el cagon de estanga pusiera la torta.... carmona la cago, pero a chavez lo devolvieron los militares, no ningun pueblo... el pueblo odia a chavez y no puedes negar la verdad jajaja mira los niticieros del mundo! mas de un millon marcharon contra chavez jajajaja chavez no puede nisiquiera reunir mas de 5.000 personas y eso que chavez les paga 50.000 bolivares para que marchen y ademas los trae del interior del pais en autobuses... la oposicion reune mas de un millon de personas solo en caracas, y sin contar el monton de gente que tambien manifiesta en el resto del pais.. y sin necesidad de que les pagen...

Chavez = murderer

peaccenicked
13th October 2002, 07:46
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=22&topic=1140 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1140)
I posted an article there, showing that it is all about US oil interests. Only the right wing dont support Chavez.
They want to murder him for oil.

Guardia Bolivariano
13th October 2002, 14:46
Quote: from Venezolano on 5:47 am on Oct.
Guardia Bolivariano is just talking bullshit, ignore this guy.... people like guardia bolivariano are those who are fanatics that will support chavez even if they know chavez is wrong.... only 1% of the venezuelan population is fanatic like this guardia bolivariano.
So you are saying that the 1.5 million people that protested in caracas were rich people? lol jajaja bullshit... everytime the oposition makes a protest they always get 1 million or 500.000 people to the streets... everytime chavez convoques a pro chavez march less than 5.000 go to the streets.... chavez lost the support from the poor people... even the poor people hate chavez... and we all know chavez's sniper killed 19 people on abril 11.

Lo que devolvio a chavez al poder el 13 de abril fueron los militares mamahuevos que estaban arrechos luego de que el cagon de estanga pusiera la torta.... carmona la cago, pero a chavez lo devolvieron los militares, no ningun pueblo... el pueblo odia a chavez y no puedes negar la verdad jajaja mira los niticieros del mundo! mas de un millon marcharon contra chavez jajajaja chavez no puede nisiquiera reunir mas de 5.000 personas y eso que chavez les paga 50.000 bolivares para que marchen y ademas los trae del interior del pais en autobuses... la oposicion reune mas de un millon de personas solo en caracas, y sin contar el monton de gente que tambien manifiesta en el resto del pais.. y sin necesidad de que les pagen...

Chavez = murderer


The only bullshit comes from you ,you can say anything you want but you can't stop our revolution.And really you need to learn how to count shithead,cause only an idiot would say that 5000 people is the total number of people that go to president Chavez's huge demonstrations.
VIVA CHAVEZ!

(Edited by Guardia Bolivariano at 2:49 pm on Oct. 13, 2002)

Venezolano
13th October 2002, 22:46
3 pelagatos en la concentracion chavista jajajaja

Solzhenitsyn
13th October 2002, 22:59
I posted an article there, showing that it is all about US oil interests. Only the right wing dont support Chavez.
They want to murder him for oil.

You see. Conspiracy Theories. I wonder if peaccenicked thinks Standard Oil setup shop on the Grassy Knoll.

Panamarisen
14th October 2002, 01:36
Don´t you realize, Venezolano and Solzhenitsyn, that you both are trash, that you both are garbage for the U.S. Government? Don´t you realize that you should care for your own people?
Maybe you got some money TODAY, but when God Bush, nowdays, says that you shouldn´t, you´ll be DEAD, stupid slaves!!!

Shame of you, Latin American puppets!

Debería darte vergüenza, latinoamericano! Lee y aprende algo de tu propia gente y de tu propia raza, pedazo de ignorante, títere!!! ¿Qué pasa, te gustaría ser blanquito puro, europeíto, americanito? Eres un mierda...!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! (¡Payaso esclavo!)

PaulDavidHewson
14th October 2002, 01:52
"Don´t you realize, Venezolano and Solzhenitsyn, that you both are trash, that you both are garbage for the U.S. Government? Don´t you realize that you should care for your own people?
maybe you got some money TODAY, but when God Bush, nowdays, says that you shouldn´t, you´ll be DEAD, stupid slaves!!!

Shame of you, Latin American puppets! "


Fallacy - Ad hominem.
attacking the arguer and not the argument.

Fallacy - Non sequitur.
"it does not follow" - the logic falls down.

Fallacy - Straw man.
caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack.

Fallacy - Begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).

Panamarisen
14th October 2002, 02:23
PDH, have you EVER put your skin under the kind of situation I´m talking about?
Have you EVER gone through hunger, despising, and so on? Have YOU ever seen your own children asking you for something to eat or something to put on so they don´t feel the cold? Have you EVER felt, that, in some way, YOU are not the "right" kind of person you "should" be?
I think you should GROW and LEARN so much, you wouldn´t believe...! Just try it, and then, maybe you´ll be proud of yourself!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

PaulDavidHewson
14th October 2002, 04:42
PDH, have you EVER put your skin under the kind of situation I´m talking about?
Have you EVER gone through hunger, despising, and so on? Have YOU ever seen your own children asking you for something to eat or something to put on so they don´t feel the cold? Have you EVER felt, that, in some way, YOU are not the "right" kind of person you "should" be?
I think you should GROW and LEARN so much, you wouldn´t believe...! Just try it, and then, maybe you´ll be proud of yourself!

Fallacy - Appeal to pity.
Fallacy - begging the question

I do not know why you are attacking me. I was just pointing out the fallacies of your arguments.
I never made an argument that opposed your statements.

For your information, I'm very much pro- helping those most miserable here on earth.
I advocate govermental controlled aid programs and refugee programs helping those in life danger.
I advocate the use of taxes for helping those who suffer in countries other than my own.

cheers!

Guardia Bolivariano
14th October 2002, 19:10
Comrades we shouldn't attack each other lets focus here!The real enemy is ignorance and domination.Those or the enemies of the Bolivarian revolution and the world.

Panamarisen
14th October 2002, 19:16
PDH, obviously I´m talking from the heart, I know very well I´m using an emotional language. You can try to discuss always from a distant, aseptic and theoretical way, but that´s YOUR way to do it. I´m not speaking about helping a lot of people that actually I don´t even know, but from the experience of working with them, side by side, which is the only way to get first-hand information...
And of course I don´t have anything personal against you. I had lived in Panama for a lot of years, which makes me care a lot for Latin American countries in general, and which make me know very well what Western culture and powers try to "teach" people of other kind of environments. And this is why I can´t keep silent when people from (specially) Latin America don´t seem to understand and love their own roots and culture.
Anyway, cheers for you too... I appreciate your comments (although it may look that I don´t).

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

PaulDavidHewson
14th October 2002, 19:24
no problem.

And I apologise as well. There really was no reason for me to comment in the first place.

greets.