,,,

[Bud Struggle]

Genocide Olympics. Before Tibet, there was Darfur. The Chinese Communists supporting the murder, rape and maiming of thousands of innocent people.

I'm sure there is a good Marxist excuse for the genocide. (Maybe they let their subscription to The Daily Worker lapse?)

Watch the video.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darfur/

and,

http://www.miafarrow.org/genocide_olympics.html

[Chapter 24]

The Chinese government's funding of the Sudanese government is absolutely repulsive in every sense of the word. The fact that they are investing Sudanese oil while that government provides money and assistance toward the murderous Janjaweed tribes.
However, to pretend that the U.S. government has not openly or secretly supported such genocidal regimes makes any kind of growing angry out of who Chinese government officials fund invalid, unless the media also provides information on U.S. funding of rulers such as Suharto, Pinochet, among others. Unlike China, here we are allowed to be angry at what attrocities have committed and express this anger. So please be sure to give recognition to the United States when bringing up a power funding murderous governments.

[Bud Struggle]

The Chinese government's funding of the Sudanese government is absolutely repulsive in every sense of the word. The fact that they are investing Sudanese oil while that government provides money and assistance toward the murderous Janjaweed tribes.
However, to pretend that the U.S. government has not openly or secretly supported such genocidal regimes makes any kind of growing angry out of who Chinese government officials fund invalid, unless the media also provides information on U.S. funding of rulers such as Suharto, Pinochet, among others. Unlike China, here we are allowed to be angry at what attrocities have committed and express this anger. So please be sure to give recognition to the United States when bringing up a power funding murderous governments.

The US has been doing an excellent job on Darfur. On he other hand--they were more than happy to let the genocide in Rwanda happen.

Point taken.

America was OK in its response to Serbia.

[Chapter 24]

The US has been doing an excellent job on Darfur. On he other hand--they were more than happy to let the genocide in Rwanda happen.

Point taken.

America was OK in its response to Serbia.

I don't think you understood what I was saying:

How do we give ourselves a voice to criticize the questionable human rights of CPC officials and not look at our own politicians funding regimes and policies such as apartheid? Why do people here wear 'Free Tibet' t-shirts instead of pondering, "Hmm, why would the CIA ever take part in (insert atrocious act here)?"
Because it's easier to criticize foreign governments and "rogue states" but never look at our own.

[Bud Struggle]

I don't think you understood what I was saying:

How do we give ourselves a voice to criticize the questionable human rights of CPC officials and not look at our own politicians funding regimes and policies such as apartheid?

Fair enough--where do you mean?



Why do people here wear 'Free Tibet' t-shirts instead of pondering, "Hmm, why would the CIA ever take part in (insert atrocious act here)?"
Because it's easier to criticize foreign governments and "rogue states" but never look at our own.

Specifics, I guess is what I'm looking for.

[Peacekeeper]

America was OK in its response to Serbia.

You son of a pig-fucker.
You take that back.
Americans and the UN stood by as thousands of my brothers and sisters were raped and slaughtered by the Orthodox Serbs, often abandoning villages that were about to be attacked by the son of a ***** Serbs. That is everything but okay, you piece of filth.

[TC]

Beijing olympics are the 'genocide olympics'??? Why not call the London olympics the 'genocide olympics' for their support for the genocide in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Columbia, Pakistan, the systematic repression of women in Saudi Arabia and the UAR and Qatar and Kuwait, the oppression of the Kurds in Turkey.

Blaming China for having economic links to the Sudan as if that makes it responsible for anything militias supported by the Sudanese government does is ridiculous unless you'll also hold the US and UK and Japan accountable for everything done by every country in the NYC-London-Tokyo international financial system...meaning virtually all countries including China and Sudan.

[Bud Struggle]

You son of a pig-fucker.
You take that back.
Americans and the UN stood by as thousands of my brothers and sisters were raped and slaughtered by the Orthodox Serbs, often abandoning villages that were about to be attacked by the son of a ***** Serbs. That is everything but okay, you piece of filth.

Was that America's JOB? Where were your Islamic brothers? Where was Arabia and Egypt and Iran and Pakastan in all of this?

When the Moslems shit all over the world is that America's job to clean up after them?

You Peacekeeper smell like bacon.

[Chapter 24]

Specifically I cannot actually list all of the dictators and regimes supported by the U.S. as there are, well, a bunch. One current example is if you look at Saudi Arabia's absolute monarchy and religious state, in which women are executed for going out in public without a male relative or traditional dress. The U.S.'s investments in the kingdom's oil are of course infamous. So why is it okay when a fundamentalist state such as Saudi Arabia, where public stonings against women who commit adultery, is funded by the U.S., but when China invests in the oil of a genocidal government we call them "supporters of the murder, rape and maiming of thousands of innocent people." ?

[Bud Struggle]

Specifically I cannot actually list all of the dictators and regimes supported by the U.S. as there are, well, a bunch. One current example is if you look at Saudi Arabia's absolute monarchy and religious state, in which women are executed for going out in public without a male relative or traditional dress. The U.S.'s investments in the kingdom's oil are of course infamous. So why is it okay when a fundamentalist state such as Saudi Arabia, where public stonings against women who commit adultery, is funded by the U.S., but when China invests in the oil of a genocidal government we call them "supporters of the murder, rape and maiming of thousands of innocent people." ?

True, America's invertment in Arabia is large--and as any fundamdntal Islamic country--they are bad on human rights--but they are no where as bad as Darfur. They butcher thousands.

[Cult of Reason]

You son of a pig-fucker.
You take that back.
Americans and the UN stood by as thousands of my brothers and sisters were raped and slaughtered by the Orthodox Serbs, often abandoning villages that were about to be attacked by the son of a ***** Serbs. That is everything but okay, you piece of filth.

Bosniaks and Croats (successors to the Ustashe) killed each other a little and a lot of Serbs (look at the Krajina), and the Serbs killed a lot of them. This was caused by:

Memories from the Independent state of Croatia, when both Bosniaks (your "Muslim brothers") and Croats committed actual genocide (to the tune of approx. 700 000 men, women and children) against the Serbs, most notoriously at the Jasenovac death camp, in collaboration with Nazi Germany.

Going further back, you can thank religion (of course!) and the "divide and rule" tactics by the Austro-Hungarians for the troubles.

Peacekeeper, fuck off! I am going to ask the CC to ban you due to your blatant racism.

[Chapter 24]

True, America's invertment in Arabia is large--and as any fundamdntal Islamic country--they are bad on human rights--but they are no where as bad as Darfur. They butcher thousands.

Oh absolutely. I am not trying to downplay either of them. To do that would be horrendous in itself.

But onto the topic at hand. Why do you think the U.S. boycotted the 1980 Olympics in Moscow and there is a huge realm of cotroversy over the games being held in Beijing, but there was no boycott at the '36 Olympics in Berlin?
(You're not really obliged to answer this question, but I thought this was a relevant question to the topic and, what can I say, I'm a huge history nerd.)

[Bud Struggle]

Oh absolutely. I am not trying to downplay either of them. To do that would be horrendous in itself.

But onto the topic at hand. Why do you think the U.S. boycotted the 1980 Olympics in Moscow and there is a huge realm of cotroversy over the games being held in Beijing, but there was no boycott at the '36 Olympics in Berlin?
(You're not really obliged to answer this question, but I thought this was a relevant question to the topic and, what can I say, I'm a huge history nerd.)

I agree there--not boycotting the '36 Olympics was a HUGE mistake. And that's just the point--we shouldn't accept butchers as equals at the table of nations. You may not like the politics pf the USA and I may not like the politics of Russia, but that'sa far cry from accepting genocide of innocent people.

There has to be a line drwwn-it won't be a pretty one--but a line has to be drawn.

[Peacekeeper]

I'm a racist because I hate the people who murdered my spiritual brothers, the families of my friends? Let me clarify: I don't hate the Serbs as a people, I hate the ones who raped our women and killed our men and forced our women who were raped to have their rapists' children then stole the children from them so they could raise them as Serb and Orthodox Christian so as to completely eliminate the Bosniak culture and the Bosnian race. I think that's more than reasonable, and not in the least racially motivated. I don't care what race did it, I'd still hate the people who committee those despicable atrocities.

@Tom: Obviously the UN thought it was their job, as they had troops stationed in the village to stop the Serbs from coming in and butchering the Bosnians, but they would leave a village as soon as the Serbs made a move towards it, leaving the population relatively defenseless against the incoming Serbs.

[Bud Struggle]

@Tom: Obviously the UN thought it was their job, as they had troops stationed in the village to stop the Serbs from coming in and butchering the Bosnians, but they would leave a village as soon as the Serbs made a move towards it, leaving the population relatively defenseless against the incoming Serbs.

And the Moslem nations of the world--never said a word. At least the US got involved.

[Dean]

The US has been doing an excellent job on Darfur. On he other hand--they were more than happy to let the genocide in Rwanda happen.

Point taken.

America was OK in its response to Serbia.

Siemens, ABB, Alcatel, Ford, Berkshire Hathaway, Fidelity Funds...

Whenever you see those death squads driving around in SUVs, rest assured that those are FORD Land Rovers which were being sold to Sudan up until late last year when criticism of the regime became popularized.

I'm so damn proud of capitalism. But can I credit The corporations or the U.S. gov'ts refusal to energize divestment for the great things hapening in Sudan & Darfur?

[redSHARP]

And the Moslem nations of the world--never said a word. At least the US got involved.


the UN has and will continue to fuck up. with a volunteer force, that is given 2nd hand equipment, and usually has no power due to security council intrigue, nothing can be done on the level people want it to. i'm sorrying but the UN isnt a military force unless it is given a level 7 mandate (i think that is what it is called), the kind in Korea and Iraq, and it needs full security council vote to do that. the dutch peacekeepers in Bosnia could not and would not fight off the serb forces. the basic idea, "i wont die for this", takes hold on any peace keeping force. Read Shaking Hands With the Devil or do Model UN at your school to get a better picture of the UN inner workings.

Darfur presents a problem that the UN cant solve just yet, since imperialist have their fingers in the pot of gold that is Sudan and thus block any real solution. their theory is "why kill the golden egg laying duck?" i am personally not a big fan of China's actions in Sudan and i really am ashamed of the US's role in alot of other shit around the world.

as for your quote above, anwer me this, where did Bosnia get the guns and money? there have been links established that the Bosnians had some friends from the afghan Mujahadeen (their communication and fraternity links are still around, ready to be mobolized, though the group has fallen apart due to in fighting and the US interventions.) who was able to get the equipment to them. later, the US was able to get some Private Military Contractors to train the Croats and the Bosnians (I am not passing judgement, just stating sme facts).

[Baconator]

You son of a pig-fucker.
You take that back.
Americans and the UN stood by as thousands of my brothers and sisters were raped and slaughtered by the Orthodox Serbs, often abandoning villages that were about to be attacked by the son of a ***** Serbs. That is everything but okay, you piece of filth.

So you must be Croatian, Bosnian, or Albanian. Correct?

[Baconator]

Bosniaks and Croats (successors to the Ustashe) killed each other a little and a lot of Serbs (look at the Krajina), and the Serbs killed a lot of them. This was caused by:

Memories from the Independent state of Croatia, when both Bosniaks (your "Muslim brothers") and Croats committed actual genocide (to the tune of approx. 700 000 men, women and children) against the Serbs, most notoriously at the Jasenovac death camp, in collaboration with Nazi Germany.

Going further back, you can thank religion (of course!) and the "divide and rule" tactics by the Austro-Hungarians for the troubles.

Peacekeeper, fuck off! I am going to ask the CC to ban you due to your blatant racism.

Actually, learn some history. Not all Bosniaks and Croats were 'successors' to the NDH ( pro-Axis Independent State of Croatia) and the majority of them fought under the red star or their own non-fascist regiments. The 700,000 number is highly disputable and yields no empirical evidence. Actual evidence shows less then 100,000 inmate ( most likely all butchered) registers in the Jasenovac camp. That evidence is actually kept in Serbia available for access. The inflated numbers were a combination of Serbian nationalist and Communist partisan propaganda that joined Tito's socialist government.

As far as deeper history goes. The AH isn't only to blame. Serbian expansionism backed by Russian interest created a toxic situation with the Imperialist Austrians. You might be upset to find out in the 19th century both Russia and Serbia were not 'leftists' but actually rather the opposite. The AH empire was much more responsive to concerns of their societies than Serbia or Russia was at the time.

[Baconator]

I'm a racist because I hate the people who murdered my spiritual brothers, the families of my friends? Let me clarify: I don't hate the Serbs as a people, I hate the ones who raped our women and killed our men and forced our women who were raped to have their rapists' children then stole the children from them so they could raise them as Serb and Orthodox Christian so as to completely eliminate the Bosniak culture and the Bosnian race. I think that's more than reasonable, and not in the least racially motivated. I don't care what race did it, I'd still hate the people who committee those despicable atrocities.

@Tom: Obviously the UN thought it was their job, as they had troops stationed in the village to stop the Serbs from coming in and butchering the Bosnians, but they would leave a village as soon as the Serbs made a move towards it, leaving the population relatively defenseless against the incoming Serbs.

You're being totally irrational. You're blaming the Serb rapists and murderers for evil on the grounds of being Serb. In reality, they are sick individuals who should assume full personal responsibility for those abhorrent acts on the grounds of beings sociopaths, not Serbs. Culture among Bosniaks is remarkably similar to those of Serbs ( or Croats) and differ only marginally based on different fairy tale religions each side believes in. You still wouldn't be able to distinguish between the three unless someone told you what they are. Bosnian isn't a race, thats ridiculous. ( Mind you I posit the entire concept of race is fallacious)

Thousands of Serbs died as well due to irrational biases towards them just as towards the Bosniaks, Croats , and Albanians.

[Sam_b]

You Peacekeeper smell like bacon.

That is absolutely out of order.

[Baconator]

U.N. = war profiteers
U.S. = war instigators , profiteers, but at least they actually fight in it

[Phalanx]

You son of a pig-fucker.
You take that back.
Americans and the UN stood by as thousands of my brothers and sisters were raped and slaughtered by the Orthodox Serbs, often abandoning villages that were about to be attacked by the son of a ***** Serbs. That is everything but okay, you piece of filth.

You have absolutely no right to respond this way. My family is Croatian and we lost two relatives in the war. My family goes to Serb restaurants in the Milwaukee area, unthinkable a generation earlier. The only way to get rid of tribalism of this kind is to end the hundreds of years old grudges.

Honestly kid, you've got let some of your angst go.

[Baconator]

You have absolutely no right to respond this way. My family is Croatian and we lost two relatives in the war. My family goes to Serb restaurants in the Milwaukee area, unthinkable a generation earlier. The only way to get rid of tribalism of this kind is to end the hundreds of years old grudges.

Honestly kid, you've got let some of your angst go.

Interesting. I have Croatian background as well.