October the 9th - The day the world ended

[Smoking Frog II]

October 9th: The day guevara died.
The day the world ended.
We must commemorate the master.

Do as i do tomorrow, and wear a Che shirt under your normal one. or just wear a che shirt, period.

Che gave his life for the revolution, and we must give up this day for him.

---------------------
Thank you, comrades

El Frog

[PunkRawker677]

So you wish remember his life and death by wearing a t-shirt. a t-shirt bought from capitalists?

[anti machine]

oh punk, let it slide for this one. Wearing a che-shirt, especially on his goddam death anniversary, is the least we can do to draw attention to this revolutionary icon. Wearing a shirt sparks curiosity in fellow people, and what better a way to spread the word than for someone to come up to you and say "Dude, who's on your shirt?" Besides, you dont own one ariticle of clothing that wasnt made by "capitalists". The purchase of a CHe shirt is, in my opinion, a just sacrifice. (By the way, my CHe shirt was made in CUba. my ex-girlfriend got it for me when she went to visit, and I will wear it proudly tomorrow.) Thanks smoking frog. Good call.

[Goldfinger]

But I've been wearing my only Che t-shirt for two days now, people will start 2 complain! It won't make any difference to people, I wear it practically all the time.

[PunkRawker677]

A couple of us are making fliers and handing them out. I figure its a bit better then a t-shirt seeing as we will be able to provide a little information to people. There is a flier, made by Drake, in chit chat for everyone who would like to join us. I wasn't ragging on Smoking Frog's idea, i was just saying that its not really the best way to go about it, but its a personal decision. Whatever works for him, it just doesn't work for me.

[anti machine]

yeah, i understand. I suppose we all have our values. It's just interesting to me that you will wear apparel made by capitalists with no remorse, but as soon as a shirt depicting Che Guevara is made by the so-called "capitalists", it becomes an issue. As for me, I will wear the shirt. I'll post some fliers too, thanks punk and drake.

[canikickit]

You sure are making a lot of assumptions in that post, auntie machine.
There is a difference between wearing clothes because they are relatively cheap and there isn't all that much choice, and not wearing something which is a parodox in itself.

[anti machine]

Okay, if Punk was so gung-ho about not buying clothes from the cappies, there are plenty of other choices. He could make his own clothes, for example. His argument against not wearing a shirt because its made by cappies is simply poorly-founded.

Canicickit: don't patronize me asshole.

[boadicea88]

I have the same prob as Apocalypse when- only I've been wearing mine for about two weeks...

[bluerev002]

yes, good call comrad. i will wear mine proudly
(I MADE IT SO FUDGE OFF).

i will print out some of those fliers.

[canikickit]

Punkrawker does make his own clothes. (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=14&topic=219)
If you choose to interpret what I am saying as patronising perhaps it is because you have some sort of inferiority complex. But what do I know, I'm not a psychologist and am also unfairly biased having been called an asshole.
Where do you feel I patronised you?
Do you think you didn't make assumptions? Do you think it was patronising for me to point out that it is a paradox to wear something made by a capitalist which celebrates the antithesis of capitalism, well then perhapss you should make it more obvious that you are aware of these ironies.
In short, go fuck yourself.
I didn't mean to be patronising, and I apologise wholeheartedly.

[bluerev002]

i dont get it, you make a joke and then your defending yoursef. if you make a comment and you know yoiur gonna be serioulsly judged, why do you post it?

[bluerev002]

i dont get it, you make a joke and then your defending yoursef. if you make a comment and you know yoiur gonna be serioulsly judged, why do you post it?

[PunkRawker677]

You are all blind if you think that wearing a shirt that has a picture of Che on it, that was bought from capitalists who are capitalizing on his 'pop icon' image is fucking honoring him. remember when che said "i'm not a movie star"? And as Canikickit said, i make all the clothes i can for myself, what i can't make, i buy from the local thrift shop because i refuse to contribute to the corporate world. I understand some of you people are to young to make decisions on where you buy clothes and whatnot, but thats how i live my life. Thanks for the support while i was away canikickit.

[canikickit]

I don't really know what you're talking about, Blue Rev.

It is a paradox to wear a capitalist made t-shirt to celebrate Che's life. That's no joke.
I don't think anybody is wrong to wear one, but I think the point Punkrawker made is valid, as is the one Anti Machine made.

(Edited by canikickit at 2:32 am on Oct. 9, 2002)

[anti machine]

I was referring to your calling me "auntie machine". Sorry if this was a spelling error.....

Punk, i apologize. I didnt realize that you have gone to such lengths to refuse capitalism. That is very admirable. Most of my clothes come from the thrift store too.

I dont have an inferiority complex, i have a superiority complex, which i am perfectly content with. Excuse me if i made any accusations on my assumptions of punk.

[Stormin Norman]

Damn. If I had know that, I would have bought a keg of expensive beer and held a celebration to commemorate the event. What a pity. I guess I will have to mark my calender for next year, so I can plan a sufficient enough bash to demonstrate my utter hatred for this man, and my complete joy in the fact that he is no longer with us. This is not a joke. I think I will start to celebrate this man's death. What better reason to party is there? Of course, I will invite my friends from Che-lives. They can sit in the corner and pout. We can even play pin the tail on the leftist. Oh what fun it will be. Better yet, why not use one of the self proclaimed communists as a pin'ata. You are all invited. Please RSVP.

[Annelie]

Everyone can to whatever he wants to do to honor Che!

Wearing a Shirt is a beginning! I wear my T-shirt and I put out a Che flag ... people will notice and that's what I want. I want people to have Che in their heads and to start thinking about why? Who is this guy? ...

So thanks to all the Che lovers! The world needs you!

Vive el comandante!!!!!

[mujer revolucionaria]

I wear a Che pendant, that I got in Cuba, everyday.....it is amazing how many people ask me "who is that?"

[suffianr]

SN, you spiteful bastard! Ah, the irony, if you hate the man so much, why are you still posting in a community that shares great admiration for Che Guevara?

Why don't you start your own right-wing forum and ***** about communism with a bunch of other commie haters? I'd rather you do that than continue to be an oxymoron by posting here...

[Smoking Frog II]

Thank you for supporting me, comrades [except for SN and critics]

I would just like to say That my Che T shirt cost £4.
It costs £2.50 for the t-shirt, and a pound to print the image onto. Is it a crime against socialism to pay someone who is making a £50p profit?
Besides, The t-shirts had to be transported and packaged and laballed, didn't they.

My communist badges cost 25p each...

[Brian]

The only good Che is a dead Che.

[bluerev002]

the only good brian is a.........wait......never mind your still no good even after your dead.

[BOZG]

Most Che t-shirts are not any dearer than a plain t-shirt. It's different now, if you're going out and spending like $50/60 on the fucking t-shirt. Why wear something plain if you can wear something that brings attention to Che and which may as Annelie said get people thinking and wondering who he is?

[PunkRawker677]

Maybe because using a capitalist product to give praise to an anti-capitalist is ridiculous.

[BOZG]

Well why don't we all just reject the capitalist system because in someone by being anti-capitalist yet living within the system is ridiculous. Sometimes you just have to use the system against itself.
I bet that you'll find that there's a shit load of people who discovered Che through the picture on a t-shirt.

Which is better? Three people becoming interested in leftist politics because one person wears a Che t-shirt or none of those three people becoming interest because they've never seen Che before?

(Edited by BornOfZapatasGuns at 12:17 am on Oct. 10, 2002)

[PunkRawker677]

I wasn't saying you shouldn't wear che-shirts, or use any 'capitalist goods'. But I personally choose to let go of all that on this day and remember him humbly.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Damn. If I had know that, I would have bought a keg of expensive beer and held a celebration to commemorate the event. What a pity. I guess I will have to mark my calender for next year, so I can plan a sufficient enough bash to demonstrate my utter hatred for this man, and my complete joy in the fact that he is no longer with us.

Excellent idea, SN. There would be nothing more pleasurable in the world than drinking 6 mugs of Köstritzer to commemorate Che's arrival in Hell.


(Edited by Solzhenitsyn at 11:47 pm on Oct. 9, 2002)

[peaccenicked]

Solzy another pointless emotive post.

[Annelie]

That's a call on BRAIN and SN ... why don't you simply shut up and get out of here. You are talking crap, and that probably without any knowledge about CHE!

[PaulDavidHewson]

Did you know that Che is of Irish heritage?

http://www.ask.com/main/metaanswer.asp?qid...chive&io=2&ac=0 (http://www.ask.com/main/metaanswer.asp?qid=3AC23C277B2A354F896DCA06C9BB05D D&url=http%3A%2F%2Fask%2Edirecthit%2Ecom%2Ffcgi%2Dbi n%2Fredirurl%2Efcg%3Furl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egeoc ities%2Ecom%2FHollywood%2F8702%2Fche%2Ehtml%26qry% 3DTop%2FSociety%2FPolitics%2FSocialism%2FMarxism%2 FCommunism%2FPeople%2FGuevara%2C%5FErnesto%5FChe%2 6rnk%3D3%26src%3DDHODP%5FOD&back=catkey%3DTop%2FSociety%2FPolitics%2FSocialism %2FMarxism%2FCommunism%2FPeople%2FGuevara%2C%5FErn esto%5FChe&en=channels&pt=Che+Guevara+Information+Archive&io=2&ac=0)

[Felicia]

yeah, most of us know that :)

[anti machine]

We all use the internet, the epitome of capitalism, and we are, in punk's words, "Using a capitalist product to give praise to anti-capitalism". I dont make this argument, i think we are using the internet in an honorable fashion. Likewise, i see the purchase of a CHe shirt no less hypocrital than using the internet to hold on-line communist debate.

[suffianr]

How is the internet the epitome of capitalism?

[PunkRawker677]

"We all use the internet, the epitome of capitalism, and we are, in punk's words, "Using a capitalist product to give praise to anti-capitalism". I dont make this argument, i think we are using the internet in an honorable fashion. Likewise, i see the purchase of a CHe shirt no less hypocrital than using the internet to hold on-line communist debate. "

I think i already said that i didn't disagree with people using capitalist goods or even wearing a capitalist made che t-shirt. i just didn't think it was appropriate to do that on the anniversary of his death. i think i also made it apparent that that was what I do, i wasn't telling everyone else to jump on the bandwagon.