"You could at least look like a successful Communist..."

[MadMoney]

I have learned a lot by interracting at RevLeft. I guess it is obvious to anyone who has read what I have written here that I am not exactly a Communist, Marxist, Leftist, etc. Far from it. I can't think of a label for myself that fits well. That doesn't really matter much to me right now. What I really want to know is who are you and what do you do (occupation/level of education if you are a current student is really all I want to know, I could care less what movies you like or what your friends do for fun)? I am just curious to see the demographics of this site.

For example, I am a student at the University of Virginia planning to major in Commerce from the McIntire School at UVa. I am a pool manager, swim instructor, and head lifeguard during the summer.

Bonus: First to identify the source of the title quote wins...... something (does that count as a profit motive?)

[Chapter 24]

Ah, yes, I remember that Seinfeld episode!

I'm 15 and a student. Hopefully next year I will start working at a job.

[Plagueround]

I'll take the bait. I'm 25, have a technical degree in Telecommunications and Limited Energy, and currently work as an on site data center technician for a major company (I'm not allowed to say which one).

[Bright Banana Beard]

I'm not teenage rebel, but many OIer thinks we are. I'm 18, lives with a happy but struggling family and agreed how shitty the state capitalism is. I about to grad this month, going to straight to be programmer/ graphic designer, then if I have money, I will take economic class and hope to reformulate Marxism as much as it needed to be. I am still looking for a job.

[Holden Caulfield]

18, 6th former, going on to study Politics at Newcastle university,

first from a working class family to go to university, first to even go to 6th form

young idealistic proletarian who didnt so much chose marxism as marxism chose him

[Kropotesta]

18, finishing sixth form. Work in mental health and am hoping to be the first one in my family to go to university. Going to study Politics/Philsophy combined at Norwich UEA.

[There is No God!]

18 year old Anarchist. I'm currently unemployed and I think it'll probably stay that way until I finish school.

Planning on becoming a firefighter in the next few years, partly to help people, partly to pick up chicks ;)

[RaiseYourVoice]

21 Studying Law, getting paid for part time jobs here and there. (anything from construction to bar jobs)

[Dean]

22 year old orphan with only a brother as family. Poor as dirt, had to quit university and get a job when my mother died and my father kicked us out. If I hadn't been a commie before, this would have done it for me. And I'm getting that fucking house back, regardless of the consequences.

[bcbm]

22 year old college dropout and precarious worker, currently unemployed and traveling.

[Djehuti]

22 years old, ex-industrial worker (made dish- and washmaschines) now precarious. This spring i shifted tyres and before that I worked at a kindergarten.

Besides that I train a lot (crossfit-training, kickboxing, submissive wrestling etc.), read alot and I am active in my political group. I also hang out with my girlfriend, my friends etc.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

18 (near enough anyway), studying History, Politics and English Language at college. I'm going to University in September to study History & Politics joint honours. I want to go in to teaching...

I do a bit of graphic design here and there for fun as well as raising a little extra cash here and there... (see sig).

[Forward Union]

I have learned a lot by interracting at RevLeft. I guess it is obvious to anyone who has read what I have written here that I am not exactly a Communist, Marxist, Leftist, etc. Far from it. I can't think of a label for myself that fits well. That doesn't really matter much to me right now. What I really want to know is who are you and what do you do (occupation/level of education if you are a current student is really all I want to know, I could care less what movies you like or what your friends do for fun)? I am just curious to see the demographics of this site

I work in the records department of a hospital, though, only for the next four days. If you want to know my class background my dad is a retired factory worker and my mum is a school cook, and we get on as well as most familes.

I hope to go to university If I can afford it.

[Peacekeeper]

I'm not teenage rebel, but many OIer thinks we are. I'm 18, lives with a happy but struggling family and agreed how shitty the state capitalism is. That's me as well, but I'm 17.

[Matty_UK]

18, 6th former, going on to study Politics at Newcastle university,

Whey, Newcastle rocks!

I'm 20, studying Chinese at Manchester University.

[Red October]

I'm almost 17, in high school and working at an ice cream shop

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Associate Degree in Radiological Technology (plus another year; quit the program before I obtained a Bachelor's degree.)
Former X-ray tech.
Former CT tech.

Emergency Medical Technician (Intermediate) certificate and license.
Currently Working as an EMT-I Shock/trauma specialist.

HAZMAT awareness and basic Fire Science training.

Currently working on my Paramedic license and advanced Fire Science; future goal: work as a Fire Department Paramedic.

[piet11111]

23 year old working at a social workplace as a volunteer because i can not get a job (can't as in no work available) if the center for work and income approves my request for a paid position (highly unlikely because they say i can get a job in a normal workplace ignoring completely that there are none where i live) i am going to save up what little money i would earn to get a drivers license for a car & truck and become an international truck driver.


prospect for future : completely screwed.

[JazzRemington]

23, Bachelors in Social Science with minor in Media & Fine Arts, won Academic Leadership Award for the Social Sciences for my undergraduate work, currently going into my 2nd year working toward a Masters in Human Behavior and Society and looking into PhD programs.

[Raúl Duke]

19 and going to a public university...

Going to major in psychology perhaps.

[professorchaos]

18 years old, high school student for exactly one more week, going to University of Delaware come fall to study to become a starving musician. Currently cashier at a supermarket making $8.50/hr.

And I'm surprised at the amount of eloquent and on-point comrades my age. I could see very few of my peers having such theoretical prowess.

[Baconator]

Heh, I wonder if our ages are related to our views? It appears that a lot of the commies and socialists here on revleft are rather young. From what I know, those of us here that support a market based system ( free or regulated to an extent) seem to be a bit older. I am 26, Bachelor's in Economics currently studying philosophy and a electronics technician and construction worker by trade.
Pusher Robot is around my age , perhaps a year or two older I think and TomK is a geezer. I wonder if theres any correlation with age and views?

[Post-Something]

18. Studying Politics and Philosophy at Glasgow Uni this September.

[Bud Struggle]

What happened to the days when Communists were Cambridge Apostles and Curators of the Queens Pictures? Sigh.....

I'm a 49 yo retired twice on my third career businessman. Born dirt poor from immigrant Polish parnents fleeing Communism. Georgetown grad, Fordham grad school.

I'm very Catholic and muchly interested in social justice--but not into all "property is theft" garbage.

I think Communism has an interesting concept to sell, much different than the Left of American Liberalism. A bit more heathier.

[#FF0000]

18, graduating, going to college, no job (but I submitted an app to a gas station within walking distance).

Going to college for Secondary Education: Social Studies. Might also major in English.

I see myself going to college many times, collecting degrees in areas of particular interest like the pokemon cards of my early youth.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I'm currently working at a printing cooperative my friends and I set up. In a short time I may decide to work elsewhere as well. I'm aiming for a double major in social sciences and economics. My original intention was environmental engineering, but the market is becoming saturated due to the recent environmental fad. Someone once told me I should work in psychology, but quite honestly I don't feel right getting payed for that stuff. When I get the money I want to take vocational classes over woodwork just so that I adopt a hobby outside of reading and spending time with my SO. Ideally I would be a history teacher and part-time comedian, part-time author.

I'm slowly working my way up the "middle class" tier with the intention of becoming published for a work of fiction. My first job is still quite vivid: I worked in the PetSmart PetHotel. Shoveling shit. Cleaning piss. Bathing canines and felines. Kroger was worse. You can't pet angry customers there. :laugh:

[Bud Struggle]

I'm currently working at a printing cooperative my friends and I set up. In a short time I may decide to work elsewhere as well.

My first business was in printing. A long time ago. My brother and I bought a printing press fro $100 at a bankruptcy sale. We started out printing "Mass Cards" We went to funeral homes and sold them a service of printing up "Holy" card with a person's name and dates of birth and death. It had a religious picture on the other side.

Catholic funeral homes give these out to the bereved.

At one time we had all of the Funeral homes on the Washington DC area as our customers.

[Matty_UK]

Heh, I wonder if our ages are related to our views? It appears that a lot of the commies and socialists here on revleft are rather young. From what I know, those of us here that support a market based system ( free or regulated to an extent) seem to be a bit older. I am 26, Bachelor's in Economics currently studying philosophy and a electronics technician and construction worker by trade.
Pusher Robot is around my age , perhaps a year or two older I think and TomK is a geezer. I wonder if theres any correlation with age and views?

Check out www.libcom.org (http://www.libcom.org), I think there's a lot of older people in the forums there. The layout of this site is pretty appealing to teenagers.

And don't be so bloody patronising, ffs.

[BIG BROTHER]

I'm 18 and graduating this Friday!!!:) I don't have a job(yet) but I do clean houses with my mother during vacations and on Saturdays. I'm going to a community college planning to transfer to a university and major in history.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

23 year old working at a social workplace as a volunteer because i can not get a job (can't as in no work available) if the center for work and income approves my request for a paid position (highly unlikely because they say i can get a job in a normal workplace ignoring completely that there are none where i live) i am going to save up what little money i would earn to get a drivers license for a car & truck and become an international truck driver.


prospect for future : completely screwed.
23 and completely screwed? Life sucks, don't it?
Stay with it; 23's too young to start worrying.


19 and going to a public university...

Going to major in psychology perhaps.
Just what the world needs: more shrinks! :D

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Heh, I wonder if our ages are related to our views? It appears that a lot of the commies and socialists here on revleft are rather young. From what I know, those of us here that support a market based system ( free or regulated to an extent) seem to be a bit older. I am 26, Bachelor's in Economics currently studying philosophy and a electronics technician and construction worker by trade.
Pusher Robot is around my age , perhaps a year or two older I think and TomK is a geezer. I wonder if theres any correlation with age and views?
I'm older then you, bro.

[Lost In Translation]

13, and am going into my senior year in high school in September. Probably will go into History and Poli Sci and earn a combined major. Currently too young (by law) to have a job, but I do volunteer at my swim club a lot and my tennis club a lot, so that might help me get a decent job once I'm of age.

[Baconator]

Check out www.libcom.org (http://www.libcom.org), I think there's a lot of older people in the forums there. The layout of this site is pretty appealing to teenagers.

And don't be so bloody patronising, ffs.

Relax :laugh:
That doesn't mean I would talk about the person in discussions. I normally discuss ideas and not so much the people presenting the ideas. Normally I don't care if you're 18, 20 , or 49, if you posit something thats worth discussing then thats what I try to focus on. I think I've been pretty consistent with that. Ad-hominems usually come at me instead of the other way around. :rolleyes:

[Jazzratt]

I'm 20, employed as an office oddjob and dsaving up to do a vocational course in mechanical engineering with a view to getting a C.Eng tacked onto my name.

EDIT: Don't know if that's success but I have a nice hat, so there.

[Dyslexia! Well I Never!]

I'm 21

I dropped out of college twice after attempting to study modern history, sociology, photography, english literature, english language and philosophy

I worked as butcher's assisant until I was fired for requesting training they didn't want to pay for. I then worked as a kitchen porter until the cleaning chemicals destroyed the skin of my hands. I am now 8 months unemployed.

[Devrim]

40s, left school at 15, now married, home-owner, working in a large telecommunications company.

Devrim

[RedAnarchist]

I'm 22. I finished high school in 2002 with 11 GCSEs, although I failed my Maths GCSE. I went to a local Catholic college for two years, where I did my Maths GCSE, an A Level in English Language and Literature, and a GCSE in General Studies. I then went to another college and did two years there, getting a BTec for IT Practitioners. In 2006, I went to the same college, but on a different campus and did a Foundation Degree in IT, which I just finished a few weeks ago. I'm soon going to be doing 6 weeks work experience and after that, I'll be getting some sort of IT-related job.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

18, just finished my first year studying law in university. Looking for a part-time job for the summer.

[Matty_UK]

Relax :laugh:
That doesn't mean I would talk about the person in discussions. I normally discuss ideas and not so much the people presenting the ideas. Normally I don't care if you're 18, 20 , or 49, if you posit something thats worth discussing then thats what I try to focus on. I think I've been pretty consistent with that. Ad-hominems usually come at me instead of the other way around. :rolleyes:

No matter how many ad hominems angry teens can throw at you, no-one can match the rudeness of your smug contemptuousness.

[Killfacer]

im 18, finished college. So im gonna sit around for about a month doing abolutly FUCK all until im impoverished. Then ill get a job and rent a flat with my mate+brother. Should be fun.

SOP STORY TIME: At the age of 8 my entire family was killed. I looked after myself, my life is shit. OH NO, poor me. That is why i am left wing, pity me.

Seriously though: Born in Hackney, moved out pretty soon (thank fuck). Live in bedminster, now and the area i live in is pretty good. Yay. Now im fine. Well im well off enough to do nothing for a month and just leech off my mum.

[black magick hustla]

19, Mechanical Engineering Major.

[Bud Struggle]

No matter how many ad hominems angry teens can throw at you, no-one can match the rudeness of your smug contemptuousness.

Well, that once certainly came at you Bacon. :)

[Bud Struggle]

EDIT: Don't know if that's success but I have a nice hat, so there.

You'll be wearing this hat before you're done:

http://www.barbarasdreams.com/images/ebayblog/NovEbay/coronet.gif

[Red October]

I do not have a nice hat, but hats are required where I work, so I hope to be wearing a hat like this soon:

http://www.eugeneiww.org/images/hat_iww.jpg

:cool:

[Baconator]

Well, that once certainly came at you Bacon. :)

It happens. When people realize your arguments are sound and consistent then appeal to any combination of logical fallacies is part of the irrational response.

[R_P_A_S]

26 year old, independent contractor in the music industry. I want to return to school though.

[Matty_UK]

It happens. When people realize your arguments are sound and consistent then appeal to any combination of logical fallacies is part of the irrational response.

Dude, I wasn't even in a debate with you

[Baconator]

Dude, I wasn't even in a debate with you

Wasn't talking about you in particular, man.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Relax :laugh:
That doesn't mean I would talk about the person in discussions. I normally discuss ideas and not so much the people presenting the ideas. Normally I don't care if you're 18, 20 , or 49, if you posit something thats worth discussing then thats what I try to focus on. I think I've been pretty consistent with that. Ad-hominems usually come at me instead of the other way around. :rolleyes:
I don't think we should listen to this guy because he eats babies!

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/0/04/Bertbaby.gif
Damn animation isn't working. . .see this link ^

[RHIZOMES]

I'm 17, doing the last few months of high school at the moment (School years are different in the Southern hemisphere, due to the different seasons). Probably gonna do a Bachelor of Arts in Film, Television and Media Studies with a minor in English and Music at the University of Auckland, or possibly Unitec or AUT if I don't get into Auckland Uni.

[RGacky3]

22, Draftsman, still partime going to school, finishing my AA.

I make an ok amount of money, puts food in my mouth and a roof over my head.

BTW, since when did making money determine success, well, not when, but why. I know a lot of very rich people with horrible relationships, no friends, their kids hate them, they live boring lives, they have no meaningful persuits, they have no spiritual peace, really misserable people, with a bunch of nice cars and a house in beverly hills.

I also know many dirt poor people, barely make enough to feed themselves and theri families, with many friends, wonderful marriages and families, good stories and exciting lives, they have a mind at peace, but yet they are poor.

I'd even go a little farther and say that rich people are emotionally generally worse off. Because many of them are defined by their money rather than themselves, and they become simply slaves to their money, in many different ways.

I consider myself very successful, even though I don't make tons of money.

[Killfacer]

thats a ridculous statement. "rich people are emotionally generally worse off. because many of them are defined by their money rather than themsleves, and they become simply slaves to their money, in many different ways". The poor are more defined by their money (or lack of it) than the rich as they are forced to work.

[Bilan]

I'm 18, doing my last year of high school, and working 20 hours (on average) a week at a cinema.

[Bud Struggle]

thats a ridculous statement. "rich people are emotionally generally worse off. because many of them are defined by their money rather than themsleves, and they become simply slaves to their money, in many different ways". The poor are more defined by their money (or lack of it) than the rich as they are forced to work.

It just depends on the person. Lots of happy rich people--lots of happy poor people. Lots of unhappy rich people--lots of unhappy poor people.

But defining people by their economic statis is and has always been troubling to me. The fact that someone is poor or rich a prolitarian or a bourgeois, for me at least, is not a defining factor of who that person is. It is an incidental like the color of one's eyes. I don't go along with the idea that one person is different from another person in any way because of how much money they make or what their supposed "class" is.

Personaly, I don't think we need to to have a revolution to abolish "class" just like we didn't need a revolution to abolish the idea that race is not a factor in defining who is a human being.

We just need to look on all people as our brothers and sisters.

[Robert]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1172680)

[Comrade Rage]

I'm 22 and will be starting classes at my local technical college on Monday.

[Bud Struggle]

Don't worry about it TK, the revolutionaries are too busy in OI telling us how stupid we are to ever develop a plan of action, never mind implement it.

And haven't you had enough pasta and chianti? Get your cappy ass home before you start wearing horizontal striped muscle shirts and smoking unfiltered cigarettes.

I'll be back at the end of the month. Hey--as far as the muscle shirts, I'm not hanging out with Italians in New Jersey. :lol: Actually, most of the people I hang out with here are British.

[Robert]

Let's just say that TomK is a spring chicken and leave it at that.

[RGacky3]

thats a ridculous statement. "rich people are emotionally generally worse off. because many of them are defined by their money rather than themsleves, and they become simply slaves to their money, in many different ways". The poor are more defined by their money (or lack of it) than the rich as they are forced to work.

I mean defined as far as they base their personality on it, thats what they are, and they base their worth on their money, emotionally, obviously I don't have any statistics or proof to back it up, its just a general observation.

[Killfacer]

yes but the rich have a choice on whether they base themselves on their wealth, the poor dont.

[Robert]

they base their worth on their moneyI actually agree with this insofar as the upper middle class and nouveau riche are concerned. Very old, big money? You'd never know they were rich. Warren Buffet is I think the 2nd richest guy in the world. He doesn't own a cell phone, flies tourist class on regular airplanes, carries his own bag, and his favorite place to eat is some diner in Omaha. Same with Sam Walton.

As far as statistics, have you guys ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? In a nutshell, the author interviewed a bunch of U.S. millionaires to find out their tastes an habits. Favorite beer? Budweiser. Car? Ford pickup. Buy their clothes? JC Penney. And so on. They tend to fly under the radar, living in modest neighborhoods, hence the "next door" part of the title. Very interesting reading.

That's how they got to be millionaires. You could be the next one. Well, you could!

On edit: here's a critique of the book: note the reference to "20-somethings":

From Library Journal
In The Millionaire Next Door, read by Cotter Smith, Stanley (Marketing to the Affluent) and Danko (marketing, SUNY at Albany) summarize findings from their research into the key characteristics that explain how the elite club of millionaires have become "wealthy." Focusing on those with a net worth of at least $1 million, their surprising results reveal fundamental qualities of this group that are diametrically opposed to today's earn-and-consume culture, including living below their means, allocating funds efficiently in ways that build wealth, ignoring conspicuous consumption, being proficient in targeting marketing opportunities, and choosing the "right" occupation. It's evident that anyone can accumulate wealth, if they are disciplined enough, determined to persevere, and have the merest of luck. In The Millionaire Mind, an excellent follow-up to the highly successful first analysis of how ordinary folks can accumulate wealth, Stanley interviews many more participants in a much more comprehensive study of the characteristics of those in this economic situation. The author structures these deeper details into categories that include the key success factors that define this group, the relationship of education to their success, their approach to balancing risk, how they located themselves in their work, their choice of spouse, how they live their daily lives, and the significant differences in the truth about this group vs. the misplaced image of high spenders. Narrator Smith's solid, dead-on reading never fails to heighten the importance of these principles that most twentysomethings should be forced to listen to in toto.

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302

[Invader Zim]

22 History grad, finishing an MA in history starting a PhD in September.

[Bud Struggle]

I actually agree with this insofar as the upper middle class and nouveau riche are concerned. Very old, big money? You'd never know they were rich. Warren Buffet is I think the 2nd richest guy in the world. He doesn't own a cell phone, flies tourist class on regular airplanes, carries his own bag, and his favorite place to eat is some diner in Omaha. Same with Sam Walton.

As far as statistics, have you guys ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? In a nutshell, the author interviewed a bunch of U.S. millionaires to find out their tastes an habits. Favorite beer? Budweiser. Car? Ford pickup. Buy their clothes? JC Penney. And so on. They tend to fly under the radar, living in modest neighborhoods, hence the "next door" part of the title. Very interesting reading.

That's how they got to be millionaires. You could be the next one. Well, you could!




EXCELLENT book Robert. Really wealth accumulation if more a matter of patience and wise choices than high finance. I agree all you young (and old) RevLefters should read the book--it shows you just how easy aquiring large amounts of money is. As a matter of fact you are all the perfect target audience for getting rich--you're young and smart and you want to change things.

Good luck!

[dannydandy]

communism still has its intellectual virtue as an critic to capitalism... or else the capitalist would never bother to improve their ways

[Killfacer]

can you expand upon that danny dandy

[Bright Banana Beard]

Actually, I tried as much as possible to get cheap item and local item. The only thing I get the corporation is McDonald and Mountain Dew.

[gla22]

17. Standard middle class life. I work for 9.00$ an hour in a very easy job as a swim instructor/lifeguard. Did well in school so I will be off to a good college soon. After that I hope to get involved in a revolution.

[Matty_UK]

EXCELLENT book Robert. Really wealth accumulation if more a matter of patience and wise choices than high finance. I agree all you young (and old) RevLefters should read the book--it shows you just how easy aquiring large amounts of money is. As a matter of fact you are all the perfect target audience for getting rich--you're young and smart and you want to change things.

Good luck!

No, I buy everything as cheap as possible and rarely buy anything that isn't a necessity, (apart from clubbing expenditures) yet I'm still waiting to become a millionaire.

[Bud Struggle]

No, I buy everything as cheap as possible and rarely buy anything that isn't a necessity, (apart from clubbing expenditures) yet I'm still waiting to become a millionaire.


Stop clubbing and buy the book. :)

(It's starting to sound like I get a cut of the profits from the book. :rolleyes:)

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I actually agree with this insofar as the upper middle class and nouveau riche are concerned. Very old, big money? You'd never know they were rich. Warren Buffet is I think the 2nd richest guy in the world. He doesn't own a cell phone, flies tourist class on regular airplanes, carries his own bag, and his favorite place to eat is some diner in Omaha. Same with Sam Walton.

As far as statistics, have you guys ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? In a nutshell, the author interviewed a bunch of U.S. millionaires to find out their tastes an habits. Favorite beer? Budweiser. Car? Ford pickup. Buy their clothes? JC Penney. And so on. They tend to fly under the radar, living in modest neighborhoods, hence the "next door" part of the title. Very interesting reading.

That's how they got to be millionaires. You could be the next one. Well, you could!

On edit: here's a critique of the book: note the reference to "20-somethings":

From Library Journal
In The Millionaire Next Door, read by Cotter Smith, Stanley (Marketing to the Affluent) and Danko (marketing, SUNY at Albany) summarize findings from their research into the key characteristics that explain how the elite club of millionaires have become "wealthy." Focusing on those with a net worth of at least $1 million, their surprising results reveal fundamental qualities of this group that are diametrically opposed to today's earn-and-consume culture, including living below their means, allocating funds efficiently in ways that build wealth, ignoring conspicuous consumption, being proficient in targeting marketing opportunities, and choosing the "right" occupation. It's evident that anyone can accumulate wealth, if they are disciplined enough, determined to persevere, and have the merest of luck. In The Millionaire Mind, an excellent follow-up to the highly successful first analysis of how ordinary folks can accumulate wealth, Stanley interviews many more participants in a much more comprehensive study of the characteristics of those in this economic situation. The author structures these deeper details into categories that include the key success factors that define this group, the relationship of education to their success, their approach to balancing risk, how they located themselves in their work, their choice of spouse, how they live their daily lives, and the significant differences in the truth about this group vs. the misplaced image of high spenders. Narrator Smith's solid, dead-on reading never fails to heighten the importance of these principles that most twentysomethings should be forced to listen to in toto.

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302


Warren Buffet also challenges some very key aspects to the existing system like inheritance and goes so far as to point out class antagonism. You're talking about an anomaly who would spit on Baconator's shoe if given the chance.

Your link to a book from amazon seems a bit contrived. What exactly is the "spend-and-consume" culture? Can you prove it exists, or is it just another myth invented to make people feel like it's their fault shit occurs? Most debt comes from necessities like health care and school, not ipods. Does spend-and-consume come from the fact people are working with less money now than they were 30 years ago? Please, do tell us the mythical cure to normalcy. It looks to me like you're rehashing Social Darwinism under the banner of capitalism.

Furthermore, I distinctly remember this book being highly criticized for selecting candidates and statistics at an un-random basis. Usually the wealth associated with millionaires is from stocks and holdings. They operate with five and six digit incomes. Upper "middle-class" wage earners always tend to be the charming group: they give the most to charity, save the most, and usually have enough resources to propel someone further along if all the variables are set (Gates and Buffet, and most of the Fortune 400 come from families in the top 10%). You can draw a line between these people and that one guy in your neighborhood living in a giant mansion with more televisions in his bedroom than a poor person has clothes. I live near one of those people. He made money from selling guns during the 80s. What a wonderful person. Killing for profit.

While we're on the subject of success, can anyone point out a dogmatic right-libertarian on the Forbes 400 list?

[davidbrooke]

18, I've just finished my A-Levels in which I studied English Literature, Theology and Psychology. I also have AS-Levels in Maths and English Language.

After this summer I'm on my way to Glasgow University to study English Literature, and I make look at a joint course in Philosophy or the History of Art.

[Bud Struggle]

\

While we're on the subject of success, can anyone point out a dogmatic right-libertarian on the Forbes 400 list?
My guess is that the knack for making money has nothing to do with ones political bent or religious (or non religious) beliefs.

Some people have a knack for making money that is aided and abetted by a good education and if someone has a rich daddy--that never hurts either.

[Farrellesque]

So the average age of Revleft members is around 19-20. Somehow I am not surprised.

[Robert]

My guess is that the knack for making money has nothing to do with ones political bent or religious (or non religious) beliefs.Do you mean that time spent arguing politics here and clubbing is time not spent developing a client base or a marketable skill?

Well, I want both. Simultaneously and immediately.

On edit, I want all four.

[Yes]

17, in high school, work 30-40 hours a week.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

So the average age of Revleft members is around 19-20. Somehow I am not surprised.

Woot. We beat the Ron Paul forums. :laugh:

[Schrödinger's Cat]

My guess is that the knack for making money has nothing to do with ones political bent or religious (or non religious) beliefs.

Some people have a knack for making money that is aided and abetted by a good education and if someone has a rich daddy--that never hurts either.

I wasn't addressing the topic of making money. There are socialist millionaires, most notably from writing and small business ventures. China Mieville is a fantasy author who adds a touch of his socialist politics to his books. There are also libertarian millionaires like Alex Jones who make money from selling a conspiracy theory.

I'm talking about what comes with being a billionaire. Billionaires aren't propped up by a market. Corporations are protected by personhood status, government hand-outs, and tax loopholes. Warren Buffet is an abnormality, but like I said he's attacked his own source of wealth (not using it, oftentimes), inheritance, and republicanism.

[OI OI OI]

18 , will study sciences at college on August with hopes to be a doctor

[shorelinetrance]

16, highschool drop out, hoping to obtain a ged and major in philosophy or english.

please don't point out the correlation between dropouts and leftists.:D

[RedAnarchist]

So the average age of Revleft members is around 19-20. Somehow I am not surprised.

Which is probably about the average for many forums and doesn't make any members views more or less valid. Theres some teenagers here who really know what they are talking about, even if they can't support it with life experience.

[Bud Struggle]

Which is probably about the average for many forums and doesn't make any members views more or less valid. Theres some teenagers here who really know what they are talking about, even if they can't support it with life experience.

I must say I am pretty suprised at the overall general intelligence of the "kids" here on RevLeft. What I don't understand is why so many bright kids are flipping hamburgers or unemployed instead of doing something else more worthwhile or creative.

Is it that just what happens when you're 20 and then you go into the more interesting things? Or is it a problem with the economic network? I must say--you people don't seem at all like slackers.

Anyway, it's one of the things that convincin me that maybe there is something a bit wrong with the way Capitalists do things.

I just can't put my finger on what the problem is.

[Socialist18]

I'm 30, I come from a poor peasant like family and I am still dirt poor today. I don't have a job but when I do get another one it will likely be some kind of factory work or a courier driver, I used to be a courier and it was a cool job.

[Plagueround]

I must say I am pretty suprised at the overall general intelligence of the "kids" here on RevLeft. What I don't understand is why so many bright kids are flipping hamburgers or unemployed instead of doing something else more worthwhile or creative.

Is it that just what happens when you're 20 and then you go into the more interesting things? Or is it a problem with the economic network? I must say--you people don't seem at all like slackers.

Anyway, it's one of the things that convincin me that maybe there is something a bit wrong with the way Capitalists do things.

I just can't put my finger on what the problem is.

When you are fighting off legions of zombies there is precious little time to upgrade weaponry.

Yes, I speak in fortune cookies.

[Bud Struggle]

When you are fighting off legions of zombies there is precious little time to upgrade weaponry.

Yes, I speak in fortune cookies.

I get you point, and for what it's worth, it's not a sentiment that would have ever crossed my mind when I was your age (I'm guessing 20ish--forgive me if I'm off a little.) I graduated a very working class Catholic HS, all sons and grandsons of Irish, Italian and Polish immigrants--we all were poor, working poor, or fathers had jobs, but we all lived in 1200sf houses and our dads had second hand cars. But we all were planning to "make it" in the world. We all were, so the optimism wasn't just on my part. A lot of us got into good colleges, almost all scholarships and afterschool jobs and loans, but our class went to Yale and Harvard Notre Dame and Georgetown and others. And maybe some people didn't do so well--there's always some, but almost everyone made some sort of mark in the world. We all believed God would provide (Catholic school!) and He did.

I wonder why, the pessimism these days. I don't see the world changing THAT much in 20 some years. It seems to me to have actually gotten better--less prejudice for minorities and women, more grants for the underprivileged, etc. The interesting thing is that it never would have OCCURED to us that things wouldn't have turned out well for us.

[Plagueround]

Yes, I'm 25. If I had to guess, and speaking from personal experiences, many of the people I've met with ambitions to go to school are stuck simply because the cost of living is so expensive these days...attempting to go to school would devastate them financially and they would probably end up having to quit. The grants aren't enough for the single moms and dads, and the people without kids have a rough time getting anyone to give them the grants...they also lack the proper credit to get student loans (student loans are a nightmare by the way, to the others reading this, avoid them like the plague). As life gets more expensive, which it certainly has lately, the hope of going to school grows darker and darker in their minds, they're too busy making sure they can survive from week to week. They compete for entry level jobs with people twice their age because precious little people have the resources to get ahead these days.
In my own situation, my girlfriend and I are actually putting off getting married because if we do, she loses her financial aid and we won't be able to afford getting her through school. If I hadn't gotten my degree and a solid job when I did, she would probably be in a situation similar to that of her co-workers. It's disheartening to know that her and I are probably the only people that worked at that restaurant that will be "progressing" in the next few years, and I refuse to believe it's because we're the only ones there that aren't lazy or stupid. There is so much more to it than that.
It just strikes me as odd that a system that is fueled by consumerism would put such a stranglehold on it's people, deny them room for social mobility, and then complain when the economy goes to hell because people don't have money for consumer goods anymore.
I'll write more later...my son is up and it's time go play ewoks. :)