Fascist Teacher - you won't believe this!

[antieverything]

Today in math class we were doing some graphing problems with AIDS statistics and my teacher started talking about how scary it was...which was true, but then when she was trying to make a point about not using statistics to predict things too far into the future she asked what could make the AIDS epidemic less widespread sometime in the future. Of course she wanted us to say "abstinence" and some did. I suggested a vaccine.

She looks at me and says, "But morally, do we really want there to be a vaccine?"

Of course I said, "Um. Yeah." She seemed surprised by this and gave me an even wierder look...knowing that the she probably sees herself as a perfect Christian I say, "remember in the Bible how it says that God will spare the city of sinners for the sake of one rightous man?" "How many thousands do you think that there are who have or will have AIDS through absolutely no fault of their own?"

She hesitated. I thought that she had realized the folly of her hatefulness.

Suddenly she says, "But wouldn't we be better off without such immoral people?"

I was seriously disturbed and angry.

"That's what a Nazi would say." I said, quietly.

Silence.

"Remember that Jesus said, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone', What makes you think that you can decide who should live and who should die?" "How would you feel if every person who has had premarital sex in the entire school were to drop dead? Or if someone in your family had engaged in premarital sex?"

She started to interupt me. I didn't let her.

"I guarantee you that many of your favorite students have had sex...should they die?"

The room was silent for a few seconds.

"Whatever," she said.


[hr]

Needless to say, this experience was pretty traumatizing. The problem isn't that a few crazy screwballs think this way. Many Americans, maybe even most Americans, think just like she does.

The time for change is now.


(Edited by antieverything at 12:13 am on Oct. 8, 2002)

[guerrillaradio]

Unfortunately, such behaviour is typical of English private skools. I remember how hounded i got in one of my lessons for suggesting that the unfortunate didn't deserve to be that way...

[ID2002]

Fascist? How so?
I think narrow minded, and bigoted is the real issue here. Her extreme religious beliefs are clouding her mind to the truth: AIDs effects everyone. I have a good friend who got HIV through an Emergency blood transfusion in 1982 after a pickup truck smashed her face in. She was a year old then. Did she "sin"....NO! Remember, she should be neutral in the classroom about her religious beliefs. This is a mark of a good teacher: tollerant, open minded, and not PREACHING!
....I am a public secondary teacher (in training) myself. I am very careful what I say and do.

[Lardlad95]

Hell fuckin no!

[ID2002]

"Hell fucking no!"

Was that aimed me? .....do you disagree with me?

[antieverything]

Did you even read it, ID?

It wasn't her religious beliefs that were the problem, it was her was she truly felt in her heart. For fake Christians, religious beliefs are a transparent and disposable thing.

I actually just said "fascist" so that people would read it :)

[j]

It seems the christianity piece was pushed by you anti...do you know for a fact that she is so religious?

I think she seemed very closed minded. What she said was not right or professional. She seems very inhumane if you ask me.

She actually just sounds like dumb *****.

j

[bluerev002]

did cha know that there is not vaccine for AIDS??

well our valley has placed third in the valley with the most HIV and AIDS. and i have many friends with it. many of these ppl are born with them. they die and of no fault of their own. and most of these ppl are "illegal" immigrants who cant afford the medication necesary to survive a few more years. but of course there is no way to fight this (other than abstinance).

i just have a question, even though she is a christain women, why did you use christianity as an example??

[antieverything]

No shit, blue. I gave a vaccine as an example of something that could slow the spread of the virus.

Why did I use Christianity as an example? Because I thought it would shut her up. Because I get angry when people who claim to be such perfect, Christian people are in their hearts evil and completely against everything that Jesus taught. Because I am a Christian myself.

How did I know she believed herself to be a Christian? Because almost everyone in small towns in Texas claims to be a Christian. Especially the small minded, intolerant people. Because I had seen her in church before I stopped going out of disgust.

[killingstars]

and i thought i hated my english teacher. i've done work with AIDS foundations in my city and i am offended whenever i hear someone is still ignorant about it. a teacher should not state her beliefs like that in a classroom, anyone in that classroom could have been directly affected by that situation. it makes me mad =(

[ID2002]

I'm not against any religion buddy. I have SERIOUS problems with the "Jerry Falwell" types who are making weird ass statements about world events and linking them with non-Christians, Left wingers, etc.

He is a sick son of a *****! And so are his followers! You teacher reminded me of something Falwell said about AID's, this is why I have reacted strongly to what you have posted.

.....I'm not against you :) ...breath easy.

[Moskitto]

There is a vaccine which has got to the trial stage and will be tested in the next few years.

The problem with an HIV vaccine is no drug company is going to manufacture it because of the money they make from HIV drugs that don't do that much in the big picture. Well, that's capitalism for you, money over 75 million lives, no contest.

That teacher does sound like a religious fanatic, a non-religious fanatic would have agreed with a vaccine or using condoms.

[Xvall]

yes moskitto, I brought that up before. They do not desire to cure AIDS.. They want you to be able to live with it; (Assuming of course, that you pay a monthly fee to recieve your medicine..)

$$$

[Moskitto]

I want to do a degree which might wind me up in the pharmacuticals industry.

I'm walking round the lab one day and I see "HIV Vacine" on some documents what do I do...

[Felicia]

I thought what you said was good. I would've done the same thing only I would've brought up the children who are born with this disease, and the orphans who are left to starve if no family members can take care of them, they certainly don't deserve to be punished, they've suffered enough. I would've been all pissed at that teacher like you wouldn't believe!

[Felicia]

Moskitto,
First you take it, and run away to Canada, then you duplicate it and spread it around to mother Africa!!! It's the only decent and moral thing to do! How could you live with yourself if you didn't?

[antieverything]

I think that the AIDS vaccine could be the breaking point of capitalism. People won't tolerate the corporations making money off of destroying an entire continent.

[bluerev002]

Ive been told that there is no way to kill a virus. so maybe there cant be a vaccine for AIDS. but of course anything is possible so maybe in a few years or months or who knows. some day, maybe some day there will be a cure.

[j]

You are right blue, you can't kill a virus. Your body needs to develop immunity to the virus so that you are no longer feel the effects of the virus, i.e. no more symptoms. Now you can have a vaccine for a virus. The basic idea of a vaccine is to give a person a little bit of the virus and have the person naturally build up an immunity to it. But its tricky and it doesn't always work. There are no drugs that will "cure" a virus. That's why when you get a cold you only treat the symptoms. I recently got over mono and there was nothing they could give me to make me better--my body had to fight off the virus.

Now, for someone with HIV you can see the dilemma. In order to fight off this virus you need to have a healthy immune system--but when HIV attacks the immune system and you can no longer fight it then you have AIDS. It's almost like a catch-22.

A vaccine against HIV is a posibility. Polio is a virus that has a vaccine for example. So it is not out of the question to create a vaccine. But a vaccine is not a cure. Once you have HIV giving you a vaccine would only increase the presence of HIV already in your body. A vaccine would PREVENT getting HIV to the point where you can get AIDS but it would have nothing to do with curing a person who already has HIV or AIDS.

j

[j]

killingstars-

to respond to your comment about teachers not stating their beliefs in class. Now I'm not defeding this ***** but let me speak as a teacher myself.

It is very hard NOT to state your beliefs. For example, I'm a leftist/socialist/whatever you wanna label it. George Bush just spoke last nite about going to war with Iraq. So today in one my history classes I decided we could take a break from the Incans and talk about Bush's speech. Now, mind you, my school is an alternative school for students who have histories of behavior/emotional problems and they come from an urban setting. Many of my students are functioning well below grade level but are of average intelligence. (I guess this is just to frame it for you). Now my students pretty much hate Bush and think the US should mind their own business. What I had to do was actually attempt to present the reasoning behind Bush's statements. This, of course, was not that easy. Anyway, we got to talking about bombing Afganistan and one student thought it was stupid to drop both bombs and food. I asked him why we also dropped food. He didn't really answer but I was biting my tongue trying not to say that it was all a political move. I could have gone into how we shut down roads that were vital for transporting food to the people. If I had, would I have been giving my own opinion? Would a right-winger have an issue with my statements?

I kind of moved on only quickly mentioning how it's my role not give my opinion and followed it up with the dropping food was purely political and didn't go into the road situation. So what I'm saying is that it is highly difficult not to speak your mind as a teacher. When I give my opinions I like to add a disclaimer about it only being MY opinion. Although that is not always the best way to tackle it. I also love to play devil's advocate and provoke some of my students who are very religious with statements like "religion is the opiate of the people" and so on. Anyway, teaching is a hard job and keeping your opinions totally out of it is very difficult, but I guess its the ideal.

j

[canikickit]

Very interesting post, j

I remember seeing a documentry about AIDS and it is like nature has developed the perfect way to take us out, kind of scary really...

But what you are saying about teaching, it wouldn't really be your opinion if you were to tell them about the political motivations behind dropping food. Although you would have to make it clear that they are also doing a good thing by dropping food (pathetic as it may be).
It could possibly get you into trouble though...

[killingstars]

j

i understand. i just meant maybe her remark toward it was inappropriate, concerning the specific topic. it's one thing to provoke your students to think but it's another to offend them by your words, as she did. or at least i would have been offended. her remark was very closed-minded and as a teacher i think her opinion was not very well educated. had i shared her views i probably wouldn't of been offended. i also have teacher that constantly has some stupid remark about leftist, especially greens. As a green i am offended at the sight of her. the subject is not as emotional and personal as AIDS, but it is still a subject that directly offends me and might offend other peers as well. she has given a biased view to those in the class that might not know anything about the party. that's when i think she should shut up as a teacher for not educating her students very well.

[Moskitto]

There is a way of curing HIV that's available now.

If you inject someone with chlorine bleach the virus would die, unfortunately the patient dies as well...

I think a possible way is creating a copy of the HIV virus and genetically modifying it so that it uses the viruses own replication to destroy the virus producing cells by replacing the HIV DNA with the host's DNA, but also making the new virus extremely progressive and also self destructing after a certain period of time so that the new HIV that replaces the HIV DNA with that of the original host doesn't go to other people.

[attica]

antieverything- you said you had seen the teacher at church and then stopped going yourself out of disgust, dont do this.

What you believe in is personal, its not how some stupid teacher or a bunch of ignorant people view it.

[antieverything]

What exactly are you trying to say, attica?

[redstar2000]

Mouthy as I am, I held off posting to this thread for a few days...probably hoping someone else would do the dirty work. No luck, as usual!

So: antieverything, you did a good deed. You publicly confronted a stupid bigot in a less than supportive environment and embarrassed her into silence, probably giving a lot of kids there something to think about. Praise to you; you have a right to be proud.

And then you go and SPOIL it all by admitting that you yourself are a christian. Arrrgh!

I know at this point, it's customary to start throwing book titles around. I'm not altogether sure that anyone ever became an atheist because they read it in a book, though books can certainly help. Nor will I harass you with marxist rhetoric; you can read that stuff when you're ready to.

But how about just plain common sense? This is how one of the old 19th century British utilitarians put it:

"When someone tells me that Christ rose from the dead, two things occur to me. The first is that I have NEVER known a man to rise from the dead; the second is that, sadly, I have OFTEN known men to LIE."

Religions do not and cannot correspond to real, lived experience. THAT's why they are not true and could not possibly be true.

We will never break the chains on our bodies until we first break the chains on our minds.

[Libertarius]

Schools are nothing but brain-washing stations for the young, foolish masses. That's how American nationalists are bred so effectively nowadays. I've seen it myself here in Canada. I get my ideas shrugged off if I so much as try to raise one of the benefits of socialism in a class discussion. Teachers would be fired if they bred rebels :P

BTW, i wouldn't call your teacher fascist, as it is too often used as a political swearword without rigid meaning. Your teacher is simply a moron, misguided by Christian ideals.

(Edited by Libertarius at 5:45 am on Oct. 18, 2002)

[vodun]

Attention Slow People:

There is no cure for AIDS at this time. Is anyone here unaware of that fact?

A vaccine would be lovely. It does not exist. IF IT DID, then the government would have some responsibility in providing it to the general populace.

In the mean time, avoiding the disease is primarily UP TO YOU! If you CHOOSE to engage in behavior that puts you at risk, then it is YOUR fault. Not some "fascist" teacher's fault or the fault of Big Brother. If you like running across the highway during rush hour, that's YOUR problem.

Having AIDS does not make you immoral. Engaging in behavior that knowingly puts you at risk is careless, STUPID, and YOUR fault and no one elses. Why is that difficult to understand?

All the innocent people who have been affected by the disease through no fault of their own would most likely not have been affected in the first place were it not for the careless behavior of so many people before them who spread the disease. You don't like to hear it, but it's the truth.

You people are more interested in people dying so you can "blame" the government than in people living by making better choices.

[El Brujo]

Quote: from vodun on 2:52 pm on Oct. 18, 2002
Attention Slow People:

There is no cure for AIDS at this time. Is anyone here unaware of that fact?

A vaccine would be lovely. It does not exist. IF IT DID, then the government would have some responsibility in providing it to the general populace.

In the mean time, avoiding the disease is primarily UP TO YOU! If you CHOOSE to engage in behavior that puts you at risk, then it is YOUR fault. Not some "fascist" teacher's fault or the fault of Big Brother. If you like running across the highway during rush hour, that's YOUR problem.

Having AIDS does not make you immoral. Engaging in behavior that knowingly puts you at risk is careless, STUPID, and YOUR fault and no one elses. Why is that difficult to understand?

All the innocent people who have been affected by the disease through no fault of their own would most likely not have been affected in the first place were it not for the careless behavior of so many people before them who spread the disease. You don't like to hear it, but it's the truth.

You people are more interested in people dying so you can "blame" the government than in people living by making better choices.

Thats not the point. What antieverything is trying to say is that the teacher actually thinks its GOOD that there is no cure for AIDS to discourage people from engaging in what fundamentalist dipshits believe is "immoral behavior". Obviously, condoms were invented for a reason.

[truthaddict11]

i am tired of people preaching abstinence in schools c'mon be realistic teach protection and advocate planned parenthood

what disturbes me is that people in my class said that HIV/AIDS was a homosexual disease and was until some people had sex with women. now thats a fascist remark.

(Edited by truthaddict11 at 5:44 pm on Oct. 18, 2002)

[antieverything]

First of all, I refuse to respond to Vodun as his post was incredibly stupid.

Libertarius, I've already said that the reason I put "fascist" in the title was to peak attention.

And now for you, Redstar...First, I didn't write this to brag. I wrote it because this was an experience that I found disturbing and I simply wanted to share it with the people on this board.

Second, none of us like it when we are judged unfairly before our arguments are heard and our specific beliefs are expressed. You wouldn't appreciate it if someone told you that the USSR proved that communism didn't work just as I don't appreciate it when you attack me for being a Christian without knowing what I believe.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. As some call themselves Marxists or Leninists or Maoists, so to do I call myself a Christian...not because I worship Jesus but because I believe in and follow his teachings. I believe neither in the divinity or resurrection of Jesus nor do I think it matters.

I don't believe in "God" as in the big guy in the sky. I believe that there is an undeniable, fundamental, and uniting truth and ethic that exists in all of humanity. I believe that capitalism destroys our humanity and is incompatible with my beliefs.

Having said all of that...fuck you.

[Jaha]

vodun, like someone said earlier, there is a vaccine. but, damn bereaucrats make it take so long for things to get approved. they arent 100% sure it works, but they have a claer idea of how the vaccine would work and how they plan to make it real. it'll be 5-10 years i bet before anyone gets to use it though....

and i was thinking.... if everybody avoids AIDS by not having sex, is this the last generation?? sex=reproduction. i hope nobody is preaching complete abstinence; just abstinence with infected people...

[redstar2000]

Not exactly a "christian" response, but ok, fuck me.

But then you have the VERY thorny problem of figuring out just what it is that Yeshua ben-Yosif (his real name) actually taught...and the books are indispensible here. It's known, after all, that the Gospels were set down not less than 50 and more like 80-100 years AFTER the death of Yeshua...and many biblical scholars--which you are going to HAVE to read--consider them corrupt. Some of the letters of Saul of Tarsus (called "Paul") are actually the oldest material in the New Testament, but Saul concentrates on the "resurrection" and has little to say about what Yeshua actually taught.

("Christ", by the way, comes from a Greek word meaning "the annointed one", that is, the messiah.)

I have no objection to you attacking the USSR or saying that it "proves" that communism "doesn't work". I'd argue with you but not for saying it.

And I did not intend my comments to be disrespectful of you as a person; if you think I owe you an apology, consider it given.

[James]

unrelated... but!

My politics teacher called me a fascist on tuesday.

[antieverything]

Do you think that I'm a cappie, redstar?

I guarantee you that I know twice as much stupid bullshit about Christianity. I know what Biblical scholars say, I don't take the Bible as infalible or even a higher source at all. I realize that Christian isn't an accurate name for my beliefs but Jesuit was already taken. I realize that "Jesus" is a Romanification but if I walked around talking about Yeshua, nobody would know what the hell I was talking about. Speaking of Paul, fuck Paul, see the discussion about christianity on the politics board. I do know this as well, Jesus was the most radical, egalitarian activist in history. He didn't get killed for telling people to love one another. He got killed for telling the authorities of the day that they were corrupt, he got killed for running into the temple and kicking the shit out of those who brought their greed into a place or worship...he got killed for starting a revolution. Just because the the revolution was hijacked by elitist assholes doesn't mean that the origional tenets of the revolution are to be dismissed.

Thank you, now will you please start being more tolerant of the fact that people may think differently than you do.

[Libertarius]

LOL James, how did your politics teacher reach that conclusion?

[James]

i said the BNP should be made illegal etc etc etc

[j]

Quote: from Libertarius on 12:42 am on Oct. 18, 2002
Schools are nothing but brain-washing stations for the young, foolish masses. That's how American nationalists are bred so effectively nowadays. I've seen it myself here in Canada. I get my ideas shrugged off if I so much as try to raise one of the benefits of socialism in a class discussion. Teachers would be fired if they bred rebels :P

BTW, i wouldn't call your teacher fascist, as it is too often used as a political swearword without rigid meaning. Your teacher is simply a moron, misguided by Christian ideals.

(Edited by Libertarius at 5:45 am on Oct. 18, 2002)


Schools are hardly "brain-washing stations" but I get your point. As a teacher I should be offended but I'm not really because I know how many teachers think. If you take a critical look at what teachers are supposed to teach (in Massachussetts we call them the "Curriculum Frameworks") you will see that they are hardly trying to brainwash. The whole shift in history education of late is to take on a multicultural (to bring back a word from college days in the 90s) approach and not teach about only dead white men. The problem with most history teachers is that they are "old school" and don't necessarily spend a lot of time on something like the industrial revolution and its subsequent impact on workers as opposed to how it effected business from a managerial standpoint. But to truly teach about what the industrial revolution meant you must go into some in depth labor issues.

American nationalists are bred mostly through the media and its twisting of reality. I'm proud to say that my students are pretty much anti-bush for the most part and are against the war. Its good to hear them talking about it. In Boston eleventh graders must write a persuasive essay that is scored uniformally across all the Boston public schools. Many of my students have chosen to write about how awful Bush is. They write about him avenging his father's failures, greed, and need to fix problems here in the US. They are outraged at the killing of innocents in Afganistan and Iraq. It gives me hope that there will be a considerable anti-war element in our future. If they are not socialists at least they will think that killing innocent people in war is wrong........

j

[redstar2000]

Um, actually "Jesus" is Greek, not Roman.

But, interestingly enough, there is at least one scholar who argued that Yeshua was a full-fledged revolutionary, a Jewish nationalist who was out to provoke the very rebellion that actually broke out against Roman tyranny in 66CE.

Do I believe you are a capitalist or pro-capitalist? I never said that and you've given me no reason to say it; so the answer's no.

Will I ever learn to be tolerant of the fact that other people think differently than me? Probably not.

And I really don't believe the people who say they are tolerant of differences of opinion. We're all tolerant of stuff we don't care about one way or the other. When it gets to the stuff we REALLY care about, tolerance is in mighty short supply...like so close to zero that makes no difference. Whenever someone says something that provokes an outraged response, you can tell the tolerance barrier has been shattered again.

But you might at least give me credit for an innocent mistake: you used a word to describe yourself that has a well-understood social/historical/philosophical meaning--the fact that you have a special, personalized meaning of the word in mind is not something anyone could be reasonably expected to anticipate.

See, I expect that when I tell people I'm a communist that I'm going to catch a lot of flak about Stalin, Mao, et.al. and I'm prepared to deal with it. That's life! But there's little point in getting mad at people just because all they know about communism is a lot of propaganda and bullshit.

So, if you're going to use the word "christian" in left circles, you're going to catch flak; if not from me then from some other leftie that thinks religion is about the worst invention in the history of the human species. We don't mean it as a personal attack on you; it's an idea that we want to destroy!

[antieverything]

And intolerance is something that I want to destroy...so, lets just call the whole thing off.

[antieverything]

Yes, of course Jesus was a revolutionary...you don't crucify people for telling them to love one another.


Did it cross your mind that maybe nobody did "your dirty work" because everybody else is tolerant of different beliefs?

Besides, my beliefs are not that unusual in liberal, intelectual Christian circles...there are entire organized, international denominations that share my views... though I did come up with my beliefs through my own thought process. This is why I used the USSR metaphor, just as someone who defined socialism by the USSR is ignorant of what socialism is, you are ignorant of what Christianity is...but I just had to clear that up, it was an innocent mistake and I understand...I dislike Christians as much as anyone else. (except maybe Mazdak)

There is a difference between organized religion, having a philosophy or set of beliefs, and embracing spirituality...ignoring spirituality does not make it cease to exist. I've said many times (and been told I'm a Godless communist who will burn in hell, many times) that the two things that have most inhibited human progress and most contributed to human suffering are religion and property rights (the latter tends to be tied to the former!).

[El Brujo]

Im not big on religion (Im agnostic), but I agree that Jesus was a revolutionary.

My Western Civilization teacher said "To be a true Christian you have to be a communist". And thats quite true because if you think of it, Jesus favored the proletariat over the boureoise. Greed is one of the "seven deadly sins". I use this very often to prove the hypocricy of fundamentalists and they respond with dumbshit remarks like "blasphemer" or "sinner", its really quite comical.

[antieverything]

All true Christians must be agnostics...

Pointing out the hypocricy of right-wing Christians is fun, isn't it!?

[Hayduke]

Antie Everything,

Let me start by complimenting on the excellent and destroying debate you had with your teacher.

If you want to get back at your teacher, for her racist and foolish ideas then I have a nice idea:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/jesus3.jpg

Put this picture on her desk with the text:

" If Jesus would be alive today he would be a guerillia

A true christen could never take this light.

[Hayduke]

Antie Everything,

Let me start by complimenting on the excellent and destroying debate you had with your teacher.

If you want to get back at your teacher, for her racist and foolish ideas then I have a nice idea:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/jesus3.jpg

Put this picture on her desk with the text:

" If Jesus would be alive today he would be a guerillia

A true christen could never take this light.

[Lardlad95]

D Day I whole heartedly agree

Christians are such hypocrites...claiming Jesus' name and his teachings yet totally ignoring them

the first Christian Groups lived communaly but then something went terribly terribly wrong

[antieverything]

It's called "authoritarianism". Power is the entropy of ideals.

[j]

to be a christian you have to be a communist.

isn't like a double negative. isn't a true communist non-religious (in the marxist sense)?

j

[Moskitto]

I remember seeing a documentry about AIDS and it is like nature has developed the perfect way to take us out, kind of scary really...

There are theories that AIDS is manmade, but allegations went away because of Glasnost.

[antieverything]

j, no you don't have to be an athiest...all Marx was saying was that religion is used by the elites to keep us in line...and it was and it still is. He wasn't saying it should be wiped out.

[redstar2000]

On "dirty work"--the reason I used that phrase is because it's HARD to confront people when they've done something that you otherwise approve of. Many people just avoid it. We'd ALL much rather live in a world where any kind of really strong conflict could be avoided, where everyone could be "nice". But it's not that kind of world, is it?

On "spirituality", you suggest that because I ignore it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But the burden of proof is on YOU. Negatives are generally impossible to "prove"; positive assertions about the world should be able to be demonstrated with positive evidence.

To prove the existence of such an entity as "spirituality", you would need to show an effect in the real world that could not otherwise be explained in material terms, an effect directly "caused" by the "fact" that "spirituality" really exists.

And, of course, the effect has to be verifible; no fair saying that Yeshua hangs out with me whenever no one else is around.

As a Marxist, I do indeed assert that no such effect has ever been detected and verified...and that the very nature of the universe we live in makes such an effect impossible; things that don't exist can't be causes of anything.

Finally, it's a little bit misleading to say that Marx and Engels didn't want to abolish religion; they just didn't think it would be necessary. Optimists that they were, they thought religion would gradually wither away and disappear once humanity became masters of the material world. They might still turn out to be right about that (I note that in western Europe, religious belief of all kinds has fallen to all-time lows), but living in the U.S., I hope people will pardon me for thinking otherwise. We are infested with fundamentalists here and they have real political clout. And, yes, I am VERY intolerant of the bastards!

[Guest]

teacher's are bad they seem to think they are high in power and that they can run or control you. some tend to be abuseive while others are total *****es. i have only met and had one teacher that was good. i have a teacher now who trys to control me she gets an attitude with me because of my anarchist and anti- religion beliefs. she does not follow the tinker and hazelwood rights. she acts like a total facist.

the anarchist

[Libertarius]

Grrr... FASCIST has nothing to do with the way a teacher tries to control your opinions or actions. Fascist is a political term.

BTW, J. I never meant to offend any teachers on this forum, but many history/social studies teachers have completely biased views and have no concept of 'freedom of speech/thought'. They will openly humiliate you with biting comments about how ridiculous your ideas are. So much for being 'special' like they taught me in elementary.

No, this doesn't apply to all teachers -- and I commend you for your encouragement of free thought and speech. We need more teachers like you, and more students need to speak out against teachers who would 'poo-poo' our ideas. I know that I have several politically-aware classmates who chime in with occasional support when I strike up a furious debate about how the industrial revolution 'brought great innovations and great wealth to the masses'. I am trying to get them to pitch in more actively, and butcher the ignorant capitalist views of our teachers :)

[Guest]

This is to that antieverything dude:
I am a Canadian and I want to say first that it is unfortunate to say the least that you come into close contact with these type of people.To be honest it horrifies me to hear that it is even concievable that most Americans think this way. In this is the case, I hope you Americans have a revolution ASAP.