Religion & Politics Don't Mix - But here's a thought...

[suffianr]

I take it that most communists have an aversion to religion, seeing as how infamous and cliche'd that old "opium and the masses" quote has become.

However, a brief comparative analysis of the belief-structures of both religion and political systems makes for a peculiar yet interesting exammination of where most of us stand in our thoughts on society.

Ok, what I'm trying to look at here is the commonalities between religion and political/secular ethics. Call me a glib little bastard, but based on a few quick observations and semi-empirical assumptions, I'd say that most religions, in basis, share a common thread with socialism. *gasp, not another socialist-justification thread!* :)

Fuck you, MaxB.

Wait, hear me out, before you start yelling off in your head...Well, most religions share strong fundamental concerns when it comes to the welfare and upkeep of society. The three major monotheistic religions, Christianity, Judaism and Islam share a lot in terms of projecting social responsibility; there are certain underlying familiarities when it comes to concepts like tithe, usury, self-sacrifice, moderation, an abhorrence of wastefulness, a strict set of rules that define our obligations to our brethren, our kindred...

So, the Big Question here is *drum roll* do religions inherently perpetuate a basic form/crude of socialism?

One, Two, Three... 'kay, I'll be hiding in the attic while you people figure out just what the fuck it was that you just read. Count to a hundred and ten, and don't fucking peek, ok?... :biggrin:

[redstar2000]

Quite clever, comrade s.

You could have pushed it even further; in the Acts of the Apostles, early christians in Jerusalem are explicitly described as commuists ("and they held all things in common" etc.), even a little stalinist (a couple who held out on part of their obligation were immediately killed by the Lord). Joe would have approved.

But, fun aside, the answer to your question is no.

The fundamental basis of all monotheistic religions is OBEDIENCE to the Will of God--which in practice always turns out to mean obedience to the masters that God in His Infinite Wisdom has set over us.

(I hope no one will bring up those very rare occasions when religious disputes have been used to provoke rebellion; the clear intent of the wannabe rulers is to set themselves up in the same place as the ones there now.)

On the contrary, the core of communist thinking has to do with rebellion against injustice, with refusal to submit to any master, mortal or divine.

It really ain't just about the money (economic inequalities) although that's of crucial importance. Communism is really about total repugnance for servility of any kind! A good communist is one who will never just "carry out his orders", no matter who gives them. He has a brain and will INSIST upon using it. He will neither elevate anyone to the position of "great leader" nor will he submit to anyone whom others attempt to elevate to the "great leader" throne.

Communism is about the liberation of ALL of us...and the utter destruction of ALL masters, human and "divine".

[PaulDavidHewson]

and yet a centralised goverment strives towards the globalisation of communisme.

Monopolising the earth by enforcing communisme upon everyone. The only difference is that it isn't a religion, it's a political system with different values.

Like Marx said, kill the enemies of the state.
It's kinda like the conquistador of Spain.

In communisme you don't worship a god, no you worship a man. Key word being Self glorification.

Don't come to me with the crap that communisme isn't to be interpreted that way.
Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, they all strived to self glorification putting themselves above any mortal man.
They all got their ideas directly from the works of Marx.

Stalinisme = Marxisme
Maoisme = marxisme, with a little twist. Focusing on the agricultural sector instead of the industrial sector.

You cannot expect the people in a country to put aside millenia old beliefs because the new ruler sees it fit.
Faith is what drives many people into being the best they can, to assure their place in the afterlife.
It's a concept no mortal man can give the religious citizens in a given country.

[canikickit]

I find it quite ridiculous that people make comparisons between "god" and "master". I am not religious, but the majority of people I have known who are, are not neccessarily governed by god. The choose to live their lives a certain way, a way which they think is right and just. It's not like god is going to come down and say:

"thou must oppress the people of Iraq"
or "think only of thyself, make all the money you can and fuck the consequences".

[Stormin Norman]

Very good, Paul. I like your thinking, because there is a lot of truth in what you have said.

It's like Ayn Rand's discussion about 'mystics of the mind' and 'mystics of muscle'. If you haven't read it, read "Atlas Shrugged". The concept that you touched upon is one of the many themes encountered in the book.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 9:59 pm on Oct. 11, 2002)