SN on the death penalty - Can anybody see the logic?

[peaccenicked]

''It's better that 10 innocent men die. than one guilty man go free."
I was wondering if this is a joke, what is funny about it?



(Edited by peaccenicked at 4:42 am on Oct. 7, 2002)

[James]

nah i think SN is onto something here...

...like, if we, kinda... chained everyone to a seat... or just killed everyone at birth... then, surely, there would be no crime, and no one would be..kinda...able to ...kinda, kill anymore. SN is very clever.






















I am of course being sarci before you hurt your little head...

[peaccenicked]

yes another great piece of outstanding sarcasm

[Valkyrie]

I'M NOT THE MAN

It crawls on his back, won't ever let him be. Stares at the walls
until the cinder blocks can breathe. His eyes have gone away,
escaping over time. He rules a crowded nation inside his mind.

He knows that night like his hand. He knows every move he
made. Late shift, the bell that rang, a time card won't fade.
10:05 his truck pulled home. 10:05 he climbed his stair, about
the time he was accused of being there.

But I'm not the man. He goes free as I wait on the row for the
man to test the rope he'll slip around my throat...and silence
me.

On the day he was tried no witnesses testified. Nothing but
evidence, not hard to falsify. His own confession was a
prosecutor's prize, made up of fear, of rage and of outright
lies.

But I'm not the man. He goes free as the candle vigil glows,
as they burn my clothes. As the crowd cries, "Hang him slow!" and
I feel my blood go cold, he goes free.

Call out the KKK, they're wild after me. And with that
frenzied look of half-demented zeal, they'd love to serve me up
my final meal.

Who'll read my final rite and hear my last appeal? Who struck
this devil's deal?

by the
10,000 Maniacs

[Guest]

I don't know that there is very much logic behind that, actually....

Until our justice system is truly just and infallible, I don't think we should even be considering using the death penalty.

[queen of diamonds]

I don't know that there is very much logic behind that, actually....

Until our justice system is truly just and infallible, I don't think we should even be considering using the death penalty.

(Sorry about the above post)

(Edited by queen of diamonds at 9:29 pm on Nov. 17, 2002)

[Stormin Norman]

Yeah it kind of reeks of the same logic that says the opposite, "its better 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man remain in prison". It is an absurd statement and I meant it as such. To clear up the confusion, since some of you are having a hard time telling the difference between jovial remarks and serious commentary, the statement was meant as a joke.

However, the purpose of the justice system is to uphold the rule of law and protect the society at large. I wholeheartly support the death penalty, not as a deterent, but rather a means of imposing justice on those that deserve no better than death. Murder, rape, child molestation are all crimes that can never be repaid by restitution. Since they have taken something that they can never compensate the victim for, it is necessary that they pay the ultimate price. When our justice system fails to seek justice for those that are harmed by such vile acts, law and order will become scarce and the victims will seek to implement their own version of justice. I can guarantee that more innocent men will unjustly be accussed and harmed by vigilante justice than by the complicated judicial system in place today in the United States.

Name one other country that has the kind of appeals process in order to prevent against miscarriage of justice. Also ask yourself what punishment you, yourself would seek to impose on the man who raped your sister or killed your mother. What kind of world would we be living in if we did not have a system that objectively sought to pursue that kind of punishment for those deserving harsh penalties? Mob rule and lynch executions. Oh yeah, I forgot communists happen to be quite fond of these brands of justice. Perhaps that is why they wish to erode the workings of the American justice system, by crying foul to a fair form of punishment.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 1:07 pm on Oct. 7, 2002
Name one other country that has the kind of appeals process in order to prevent against miscarriage of justice. Also ask yourself what punishment you, yourself would seek to impose on the man who raped your sister or killed your mother. What kind of world would we be living in if we did not have a system that objectively sought to pursue that kind of punishment for those deserving harsh penalties? Mob rule and lynch executions. Oh yeah, I forgot communists happen to be quite fond of these brands of justice. Perhaps that is why they wish to erode the workings of the American justice system, by crying foul to a fair form of punishment.Actually, the appeals process is getting worse and worse by the minute and most people sentenced with the death penalty can't afford a good lawyer, anyway. And how can you call this form of punishment fair when it's applied to minorities and the poor so unevenly? Is it just me, or do rich people and poor people murder the same way?

Also, you brought up child molestation and rape as examples of crimes only punishable by death. My best friend was molested when she was a little girl, but she never thought that the man who did it should have been given the death penalty. She thought he should have gone to jail (he didn't), but that was enough for her. Also, she ended up talking to him and I can't say that she's forgiven him but she got a large amount of closure from it. If he had been killed, she would be worse off.

Lindsay

[antieverything]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 1:07 pm on Oct. 7, 2002
Name one other country that has the kind of appeals process in order to prevent against miscarriage of justice. Also ask yourself what punishment you, yourself would seek to impose on the man who raped your sister or killed your mother. What kind of world would we be living in if we did not have a system that objectively sought to pursue that kind of punishment for those deserving harsh penalties? Mob rule and lynch executions. Oh yeah, I forgot communists happen to be quite fond of these brands of justice. Perhaps that is why they wish to erode the workings of the American justice system, by crying foul to a fair form of punishment.

WTF is wrong with you? What does the rest of the world need with a lengthy appeals process for the death penalty when they don't even use it?

Name another country that still uses the death penalty on a regular basis! No, really, list 'em.

I'm waiting.

Does that list make you proud of our justice system,
SN?



Yeah it kind of reeks of the same logic that says the opposite, "its better 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man remain in prison". It is an absurd statement and I meant it as such. To clear up the confusion, since some of you are having a hard time telling the difference between jovial remarks and serious commentary, the statement was meant as a joke

Great. But who said that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free? It isn't that simple of an issue. What we are saying is that it is better for eight guilty men to stay in prison for life than for one innocent man to be executed. That is the issue. Those are the real statistics. God bless America.

[Stormin Norman]

"Those are the real statistics"-antieverything

What statistics did you even offer. I guess I must have missed these 'real statistics'. If by 'real statistics' you mean your opinion then we agree, it's the opinion of most the subhuman left leaning filth out there, and I happen to disagree with your lousy views.

[antieverything]

About one out of every nine people on death row in America in the last twenty or so years are later found to be innocent...often after they die. In the last century, hundreds of innocent people have been executed.

[peaccenicked]

SN does not care about innocent lives lost unless they can be used as an excuse for war or blamed on ''communists''. He bases justice on revenge and bloodlust. He is not interested in how many mistakes are made by the courts.Then he calls genuine communists sub human.
SN Go to Psychopathic Rednecks anonymous.

''My name is Storming Moron and I am a ..........''
Fill the blanks.

[queen of diamonds]

However, the purpose of the justice system is to uphold the rule of law and protect the society at large. I wholeheartly support the death penalty, not as a deterent, but rather a means of imposing justice on those that deserve no better than death. Murder, rape, child molestation are all crimes that can never be repaid by restitution. Since they have taken something that they can never compensate the victim for, it is necessary that they pay the ultimate price.

Oh, good, let's kill people to show people that killing people is wrong. Personally, I think death is a lesser price to pay than a lifetime in prison, and I think the fact that so many criminals sentenced to life in prison attempt suicide is a reflection of their views on this issue, so if you think imprisonment is about paying the ultimate price, try that.
And seriously, by murdering a murderer, how can you possibly claim any moral superiority over them?

When our justice system fails to seek justice for those that are harmed by such vile acts, law and order will become scarce and the victims will seek to implement their own version of justice.

Highlight the word justice , not vengeance.

I can guarantee that more innocent men will unjustly be accussed and harmed by vigilante justice than by the complicated judicial system in place today in the United States.

I agree. Bbut that doesn't mean the US should be happy with what they have if it's still resulting in miscarriages of justice. And it will always do so, because the system is not perfect. Recognising that fact, I don't think it's fair to implement a punishment so final as capital punishment.

Name one other country that has the kind of appeals process in order to prevent against miscarriage of justice. Also ask yourself what punishment you, yourself would seek to impose on the man who raped your sister or killed your mother. What kind of world would we be living in if we did not have a system that objectively sought to pursue that kind of punishment for those deserving harsh penalties? Mob rule and lynch executions. Oh yeah, I forgot communists happen to be quite fond of these brands of justice. Perhaps that is why they wish to erode the workings of the American justice system, by crying foul to a fair form of punishment.


Australia, in answer to your first question.
And yes, I agree, mob rule would be a far worse form of justice. But just because what we have is better doesn't mean we should stop here. If everyone had followed that policy, we'd still be living in pre-industrial revolution conditions.
Personally, I'm not communist, but seriously, if you think that you're somehow helping your country by holding up an unfair system - well, have fun finding out the truth.

(Edited by queen of diamonds at 7:41 pm on Nov. 22, 2002)

[Sulla the Dictator]

Quote: from antieverything on 6:41 am on Oct. 8, 2002

WTF is wrong with you? What does the rest of the world need with a lengthy appeals process for the death penalty when they don't even use it?


LOL Its an excellent measure of our due process against other nations that use the DP. Don't confuse EUROPE with the rest of the world.



Name another country that still uses the death penalty on a regular basis! No, really, list 'em.


Feh, argumentum ad populum. What is the right thing is not always the most popular or accepted thing.



I'm waiting.


Keep waiting. Your logic is in error.



Does that list make you proud of our justice system,
SN?


Our judicial system is remarkable not only for its goal of fairness, but its age and relative consistancy.




Great. But who said that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free?


Its a common saying.