You're just asking for trouble - Giving a poet laureate to N

[American Kid]

Hey, uh?

No offense to anyone living in the Garden State, but do they really NEED a poet laureate? What kind of artistic groundswell is so ready to burst forth that they need a government endorsed..............spokesman? Leader? I don't know, what function does one serve anyway????

I just never have ever associated poetry with NEW JERSEY for starters.

But that's another thing. The real issue is what's going on right now that's bringing so much attention to Jersey and it's poetry.

The governor appointed a guy named Amiri Brakaka (given the context, that's name you want to spell just right). Apparently, he was doing "research" and is convinced the world-domination-bent zionists were behind the 9/11 catastrophe. Here's a sample from one of his poems, "Who Blew Up the World?":

Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed?
Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers
To stay home that day?
Why did Sharon stay away?

Whew! Now this raise about 9, 000 significant questions ranging from, obviously, anit-semetism to whether or not the government should bother AT ALL getting involved with the arts.

Personally, do I think it's anti-sememtic? ..................In a way, yes. I mean, c'mon, the fuck did the jews know? 400 hundred of them died too, you know.

But on the other hand, I'm a die-hard speechnick and believe he should, OF COURSE, be allowed to say or write or think anything he fucking pleases. No matter how insensitive, or unfair, or misinformed it is.

The governor wants him to step down. I just saw some guy on TV, I'll assume somehow a part of the gov, who said Baraka was free to be the poet laurete of Al Quaeda if he wished, but he's know longer welcome as the one of NJ.

Which I thought was kind of funny.

But----thoughts, opinons. Should the gov sponser poets, or anyone like this? Is it anti-semetic? Etc. Etc......
-AK

[ArgueEverything]

I think it is antisemitic, and he should either apologise or step down.

I don't really mind if the government sponsors poets, as long as the poets aren't chosen directly by government officials, but rather by a wide variety of art connoisseurs. I doubt the fellow you refer to was chosen by experts - if he was, this problem probably wouldn't have arisen.

[Stormin Norman]

Somebody should give that scum bag a one way ticket to Jerusalem. Now that would be just. Let the Israeli soldiers have at him for awhile. Then throw him into a Palestinian strong hold. See how long it takes before he is skinned alive.

[vox]

Being skinned alive for writing a poem would be "just?"

SN's character is, once again, revealed for all to see.

vox

[vox]

Hmm, and there's something else, too. SN's post shows that right-wingers fancy themselves as thought police. SN recoommends the torture of a person for holding an unpopular opinion, not for actually "doing" anything. I have to wonder if SN comes here for his daily two minutes of hate.

vox

[Anonymous]

The government shouldn't be sponsoring the arts in the first place.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 1:30 am on Oct. 4, 2002)

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 8:29 pm on Oct. 3, 2002
The government shouldn't be sponsoring the arts in the first place.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 1:30 am on Oct. 4, 2002)


That's true. Pre 19th Century art was used to keep the masses under control.

[j]

If the government should not sponsor the arts, what does that mean for public television and radio? What about the National Endowment for the Arts? These things keep artists going. As we all know, artists don't make a ton of money. But what they offer society is incredibly significant. If you took away government sponsorship of the arts you would be making it much more difficult for artists to survive.

I don't know about you but the more artists out there the better. I hate to see wasted talent. How many great artists are out there but don't pursue their talent because they need to make a livable wage?

j

[Solzhenitsyn]

If the government should not sponsor the arts, what does that mean for public television and radio? What about the National Endowment for the Arts? These things keep artists going. As we all know, artists don't make a ton of money. But what they offer society is incredibly significant.

Yeah, the NEA sponsored Piss Christ was an incredibly fucking significant contribution to Western Civilization. Almost as good as Mona Lisa and the Sistine Chapel.

[queen of diamonds]

If that's what people want, then yes, the government should sponsor it. The government is still supposed to be a representative of the people, and if that's the way the American people feel, why supress it?

Whether this guy is right or not, that's beside the point - he's presenting an alternative point of view, which is his right. Let anyone with contrary evidence refute it and discredit him. Personally, I think he's an idiot, but hey, "In a democracy, everyone has a right to be represented - even the jerks"

[Anonymous]

Our tax dollars hard at work!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

They say its some terrorist,
some barbaric
A Rab,
in Afghanistan
It wasn't our American terrorists
It wasn't the Klan or the Skin heads
Or the them that blows up nigger
Churches, or reincarnates us on Death Row
It wasn't Trent Lott
Or David Duke or Giuliani
Or Schundler, Helms retiring

It wasn't
The gonorrhea in costume
The white sheet diseases
That have murdered black people
Terrorized reason and sanity
Most of humanity, as they pleases

They say (who say?)
Who do the saying
Who is them paying
Who tell the lies
Who in disguise
Who had the slaves
Who got the bux out the Bucks

Who got fat from plantations
Who genocided Indians
Tried to waste the Black nation

Who live on Wall Street
The first plantation
Who cut your nuts off
Who rape your ma
Who lynched your pa

Who got the tar, who got the feathers
Who had the match, who set the fires
Who killed and hired
Who say they God & still be the Devil

Who the biggest only
Who the most goodest
Who do Jesus resemble

Who created everything
Who the smartest
Who the greatest
Who the richest
Who say you ugly and they the goodlookingest

Who define art
Who define science

Who made the bombs
Who made the guns

Who bought the slaves, who sold them

Who called you them names
Who say Dahmer wasn't insane

Who? Who? Who?

Who stole Puerto Rico
Who stole the Indies, the Philipines, Manhattan
Australia & The Hebrides
Who forced opium on the Chinese

Who own them buildings
Who got the money
Who think you funny
Who locked you up
Who own the papers

Who owned the slave ship
Who run the army

Who the fake president
Who the ruler
Who the banker

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the mine
Who twist your mind
Who got bread
Who need peace
Who you think need war

Who own the oil
Who do no toil
Who own the soil
Who is not a nigger
Who is so great ain't nobody bigger

Who own this city

Who own the air
Who own the water

Who own your crib
Who rob and steal and cheat and murder
and make lies the truth
Who call you uncouth

Who live in the biggest house
Who do the biggest crime
Who go on vacation anytime

Who killed the most niggers
Who killed the most Jews
Who killed the most Italians
Who killed the most Irish
Who killed the most Africans
Who killed the most Japanese
Who killed the most Latinos

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the ocean

Who own the airplanes
Who own the malls
Who own television
Who own radio

Who own what ain't even known to be owned
Who own the owners that ain't the real owners

Who own the suburbs
Who suck the cities
Who make the laws

Who made Bush president
Who believe the confederate flag need to be flying
Who talk about democracy and be lying

Who the Beast in Revelations
Who 666
Who know who decide
Jesus get crucified

Who the Devil on the real side
Who got rich from Armenian genocide

Who the biggest terrorist
Who change the bible
Who killed the most people
Who do the most evil
Who don't worry about survival

Who have the colonies
Who stole the most land
Who rule the world
Who say they good but only do evil
Who the biggest executioner

Who? Who? Who?

Who own the oil
Who want more oil
Who told you what you think that later you find out a lie

Who? Who? Who?

Who found Bin Laden, maybe they Satan
Who pay the CIA,
Who knew the bomb was gonna blow
Who know why the terrorists
Learned to fly in Florida, San Diego

Who know why Five Israelis was filming the explosion
And cracking they sides at the notion

Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere

Who make the credit cards
Who get the biggest tax cut
Who walked out of the Conference
Against Racism
Who killed Malcolm, Kennedy & his Brother
Who killed Dr King, Who would want such a thing?
Are they linked to the murder of Lincoln?

Who invaded Grenada
Who made money from apartheid
Who keep the Irish a colony
Who overthrow Chile and Nicaragua later

Who killed David Sibeko, Chris Hani,
the same ones who killed Biko, Cabral,
Neruda, Allende, Che Guevara, Sandino,

Who killed Kabila, the ones who wasted Lumumba, Mondlane,
Betty Shabazz, Die, Princess Di, Ralph Featherstone,
Little Bobby

Who locked up Mandela, Dhoruba, Geronimo,
Assata, Mumia, Garvey, Dashiell Hammett, Alphaeus Hutton

Who killed Huey Newton, Fred Hampton,
Medgar Evers, Mikey Smith, Walter Rodney,
Was it the ones who tried to poison Fidel
Who tried to keep the Vietnamese Oppressed

Who put a price on Lenin's head

Who put the Jews in ovens,
and who helped them do it
Who said "America First"
and ok'd the yellow stars

Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt
Who murdered the Rosenbergs
And all the good people iced,
tortured, assassinated, vanished

Who got rich from Algeria, Libya, Haiti,
Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Lebanon,
Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine,

Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo
Who invented Aids
Who put the germs
In the Indians' blankets
Who thought up "The Trail of Tears"

Who blew up the Maine
& started the Spanish American War
Who got Sharon back in Power
Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo,
Chiang kai Chek

Who decided Affirmative Action had to go
Reconstruction, The New Deal,
The New Frontier, The Great Society,

Who do Tom Ass Clarence Work for
Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth
Who know what kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza
Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro
Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus
Subsidere

Who overthrew Nkrumah, Bishop,
Who poison Robeson,
who try to put DuBois in Jail
Who frame Rap Jamil al Amin, Who frame the Rosenbergs,
Garvey,
The Scottsboro Boys,
The Hollywood Ten

Who set the Reichstag Fire

Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed
Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers
To stay home that day
Why did Sharon stay away?

Who? Who? Who?

Explosion of Owl the newspaper say
The devil face cd be seen

Who make money from war
Who make dough from fear and lies
Who want the world like it is
Who want the world to be ruled by imperialism and national
oppression and terror violence, and hunger and poverty.

Who is the ruler of Hell?
Who is the most powerful

Who you know ever
Seen God?

But everybody seen
The Devil

Like an Owl exploding
In your life in your brain in your self
Like an Owl who know the devil
All night, all day if you listen, Like an Owl
Exploding in fire. We hear the questions rise
In terrible flame like the whistle of a crazy dog

Like the acid vomit of the fire of Hell
Who and Who and WHO who who
Whoooo and Whooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Anonymous]

Quote: from queen of diamonds on 12:00 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
If that's what people want, then yes, the government should sponsor it. The government is still supposed to be a representative of the people, and if that's the way the American people feel, why supress it?


What the people want isn't always right.

[ArgueEverything]

Well if you read the actual poem, you'll realise Baraka is hardly antisemitic in the proper sense. Some lines that seem to confirm this:

"Who killed the most Jews
Who killed the most Italians
Who killed the most Irish
Who killed the most Africans
Who killed the most Japanese
Who killed the most Latinos"

"Who put the Jews in ovens,
and who helped them do it
Who said "America First"
and ok'd the yellow stars "

"Who killed Rosa Luxembourg, Liebneckt
Who murdered the Rosenbergs
And all the good people iced,
tortured, assassinated, vanished "

The reference to the 4000 Israeli workers is not in itself antisemitic, I don't think, when one reads the whole poem and sees that the poet is quite sympathetic to the historic suffering of the Jewish people.

[vox]

"Almost as good as Mona Lisa and the Sistine Chapel."

You do realize how idiotic it is to take a single peice as an example of the entire output of all NEA/NEH funded work, right? No, I don't think you do.

And, of course, the painting of the Sistine Chapel was ordered by Pope Julius II. Hmmm, at that time the Holy Roman Empire was in full swing. Hey, that's not government sponsoring of the Arts, is it?!?

vox

[queen of diamonds]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 10:14 pm on Nov. 14, 2002

Quote: from queen of diamonds on 12:00 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
If that's what people want, then yes, the government should sponsor it. The government is still supposed to be a representative of the people, and if that's the way the American people feel, why supress it?


What the people want isn't always right.



Of course not......it seldom is right. But it's their money. If the people want to be racist, then it's not the government's job to cover it up.

[queen of diamonds]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 10:14 pm on Nov. 14, 2002

Quote: from queen of diamonds on 12:00 pm on Oct. 4, 2002
If that's what people want, then yes, the government should sponsor it. The government is still supposed to be a representative of the people, and if that's the way the American people feel, why supress it?


What the people want isn't always right.



I agree.....it very rarely is. But it's their money, and if they want to be racist, it's not the government's job to cover it up. If the government feels so strongly about it, let them argue their point. I think I've said this before, but let them refute him and show the world exactly why he's wrong. Education will do a better job of bringing people around to a certain point of view - if it's a reasonable conclusion from the given evidence - better than covering up opposing views ever will.

(Sorry, I think I accidentally posted my half-finished version of this post above....ignore it)

(Edited by queen of diamonds at 11:58 pm on Nov. 14, 2002)

[vox]

I Will Not Resign, I Will Not Apologize (http://www.counterpunch.org/baraka1007.html) by Amiri Baraka.

[j]

God Vox, what an eye-opening link. EVERYONE reading this thread NEEDS to read vox's link. Your opinion does not count unless you read this link!!!!!!!

j

[Stormin Norman]

"If the government should not sponsor the arts, what does that mean for public television and radio? What about the National Endowment for the Arts? These things keep artists going. As we all know, artists don't make a ton of money."

Let PBS and National Communist Radio (NPR) compete like everyone else. Kill the NEA. These are programs that are use by leftist degenerates to infect our society with their filthy subhuman propaganda.

I remember hearing a story about an NEA funded piece of trash. Some butch, scary-hairy lady used the money to create a pile of refuse made completely of dildos. This was hung in a public library. A man got upset when he took his kid to the local library and saw over 40 dildos hanging from the ceiling, so he tore them down. He was charged with destruction of property. The creator of the art and the library should have been charged for indecency and thrown in jail for sixty days, but since it was 'art' they can expose people to this kind of trash. This appears to me to be a waste of money. Should tax payers subsidize some ladies dildo collection under the guise of artistic freedom? I think not. Let that lady buy her own toys.

If artists can not make money doing what they love, maybe they should find something they are good at. Maybe when they were at college they should have taken some marketing classes, instead of Maoist studies. It's not the fault of the American public that they happen to suck.

[Solzhenitsyn]

And, of course, the painting of the Sistine Chapel was ordered by Pope Julius II. Hmmm, at that time the Holy Roman Empire was in full swing. Hey, that's not government sponsoring of the Arts, is it?!?


One problem, the Papal States were seperate from the Holy Roman Empire by that time. So the Sistine Chapel turns out to be a religion sponsored work of art. Besides, Pope Julius II obviously had much better taste than the parasitical bureaucrats who run the NEA.

[Stormin Norman]

"Besides, Pope Julius II obviously had much better taste than the parasitical bureaucrats who run the NEA."

That is very funny and very true.

[vox]

Your understanding of how the NEA and NEH work seems to be flawed. You see, they don't fund individual artists. The money is doled out to state and local groups. You might be surprised to know that much of this money is spent on bringing theater productions and orchestras to places where people would otherwise not have access to it.

I notice that there are no right-wing comments about the link I left. How very unsurprising. Hee!

vox

[vox]

Comrades,

Please notice how the right-wingers take one or two sensational examples and then claim that this is representative of everything the NEA/NEH has ever done! This is typical of the right-wing, which can't seem to see beyond its own dreary political agenda and certainly never allows reality to get in the way of their deeply embedded opinions, no matter how offbase they are.

The right-wing truly is worthless by any standard.

vox

[Sulla the Dictator]

Quote: from American Kid on 5:23 am on Oct. 3, 2002

But on the other hand, I'm a die-hard speechnick and believe he should, OF COURSE, be allowed to say or write or think anything he fucking pleases. No matter how insensitive, or unfair, or misinformed it is.


I believe in free speech too, but to tell you the truth, I don't think someone should be able to propogate Anti-Semitic garbage on the public's dime.

[Stormin Norman]

"You might be surprised to know that much of this money is spent on bringing theater productions and orchestras to places where people would otherwise not have access to it."

You might be surprised that I am not surprised by this revelation of yours. I simply do not think the federal government holds a mandate to waste money in this manner, regardless of the sensational cases discussed here. The dildo example simply adds fuel to the fire and demonstrates what kind of degenerates are running the NEA extortion racket. Stories like these do not help the argument for those that think such programs are noble endeavors.

Theaters and orchestras should be treated much the same as aquariums and zoos. If a city finds these things useful, as it should in order to add to the overall appeal of a city, then they should be funded locally. To me, it sounds too trivial to waste federal resources on such programs. These are things better suited for the city counsels of the various cities. Perhaps the voters in these precincts could decide whether they want to pay the necessary tax for government support of the 'arts'.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Vox,

So nice to see you again.

Hee!
I see you still haven't mastered your true calling in life - braying like a jackass!
Keep trying! Practice makes perfect!

[queen of diamonds]

Vox,

I can't get through to your link - any way you can post the text to me or something?