Anti-social behaviour

[spartan]

What is the leftist response to anti-social behaviour?

It seems to me that many leftists dodge this issue completely which angers me as this is a major issue for many working class people out there (As they are the ones who primarily have to put up with it and it's effects) who are potentially vulnerable to the BNP's hard stance against this problem which may attract working class people to vote for them.

My local area has a problem with anti-social behaviour and i dont know what to say to these people who are fed up but too scared to do anything about it?

It's so bad in my area that i hear working class people happily saying "It never used to be like this in my day" and "I think the Police should carry guns and have a shoot on sight policy for any trouble makers" etc etc! (Believe me i have heard all this)

A lack of a response to this problem is turning working class people to reactionary beliefs and parties like the BNP who say that they will take a tough stance on this problem, so as leftists what is our position on this problem and how can we counter parties like the BNP who are gaining support because of all this?

[Dros]

Most of it is caused by alienation and oppressive social conditions necessarily created by capitalist production relations.

[KurtFF8]

Well you should probably define "anti-social" behavior, as it's often used to describe behavior outside the cultural norms of a society. There are cases of mental illness or mentally related anti-social behavior (for example bipolarity) which aren't just social violations, and those should be treated as sicknesses.

For those anti-social actions which are just against social norms, well socialists shouldn't be a part of enforcing cultural traditions especially if they alienate people to the point to where they feel they don't want to act in accordance with it.

If I'm not addressing the type of anti-social behavior as you understand it, then define it so we can continue to be talking about the same thing.

[Red October]

What sort of things are you talking about when you say "anti-social behavior"? Those kinds of terms can be used to refer to everything from homosexuality, to vandalism, or even certain types of music.


Edit: shit, kurtffb beat me to it :rolleyes:

[KurtFF8]

Hah sorry

[spartan]

By anti-social behaviour i mean being drunk and abusive (Both verbally and physically) to other people in public, partying and making a noise at all hours (Which keeps other people awake, and in my area most people are elderly whilst others have to get up early for work), threatening and intimidating behaviour towards others for no reason, you know that sort of thing.

People in my area are fed up with this problem and are openly expressing reactionary beliefes which you would probably find at a BNP rally! (And these are simply decent hard working people who are fed up of this shit!)

Indeed just now my family have just had to call the Police because those stupid neighbours of ours are up partying, smashing bottles and arguing with each other and its 2 in the fucking morning! (It sounds like some guy is beating the shit out of his girlfriend or something)

Now i maybe nocturnal but what about all the other people on my street who are elderly or who have to get up early for work? It's not fair!

Anti-social behaviour really pisses me off because there seems to be no reasonable excuse for it.

A lack of a leftist response to this problem is losing us working class support to the far-right and i feel that this is a problem that we must remedy or else suffer the consequences (A potential BNP government who would be more than willing to send in their bully boys to "sort out" any problems).

[Mariner's Revenge]

I would first off like to say that every situation is different and no centralized method should be made. To solve social situations like these, one has to understand the mindset of the anti-social behavior and find a method that will not only work with these people but find a solution that will benefit both sides.

What these solutions should be I do not know but I can throw some examples: social programs, community growth (give kids something else to do besides be on the streets), free counseling, stricter temporary curfews and rules, more tickets, more expensive tickets, other punishment (rewards work better but sometimes you need to resort to punishment), mental hospitals, jail, and even more extreme solutions for very extreme situations.


For your individual situation, I would think that making harsher laws and such will just make the kids and people more rebellious, creating more problems but I do not know the extent of the problem or any of that and those may be necessary if they refuse a bait. I would try to get the community together, the ones the want to help of course, to brainstorm and try to find something that may work. I don't know how bad it is there but be smart and use common sense if something bad happens individually.

I do know what you are going threw though, my neighborhood has a pretty large alcoholic problem and I have been harassed many times and people have tried, and may have been successful once, in breaking in my apartment.

[bluerev002]

The sad part about this one is that you can't expect the goverment to do much about it. It benefits them to have the working class living in the conditions you are currently living in. It keeps the kids off school and on the streets, thus creating a workforce eventually, as well as scapegoats and a further alienation from the social classes.

The thing about this one is that you are viewing it through a very functional point of view. You want to fix the problem by making them socially acceptable, which is what the right usually wants to do, a quick fix with excessive police force. What, I'm assuming, the left wants to do is find a more permanent, less tangible, solution which does included the building of more after-school programs and things such as that that will benefit the anti-socials.

[spartan]

One of the neighbours in question spent the night in the cells whilst another seriously fucked up his leg running away from the cops and has been hospitalised as a result.

I would also like to say that the mother (The one who spent the night in the cells) regularly leaves her children (Which includes two toddlers) home alone.

If the Police dont then we are considering informing social services as it is simply unfair and unsafe for children to be brought up in such an enviroment as this.

[mykittyhasaboner]

id say i group of neighbors should peacefully confront the known people who display anti-social behavior. mainly asking questions about why they feel the need to act such a way, and find ways to help them. if you cant then you can just tell them to stop because its pissing everyone else off. its a shame theres nobody you can call for these things. the cops just cause more problems.

[DancingLarry]

Let me answer this as a former member of a youth street gang.

First, never show weakness. In any interactions with lumpen street predators it is essential to send the message that you are the strong and established and they are the weak and vulnerable. Any sign of weakness will only embolden them to push their advantage, like piranhas smelling blood. One of the reasons this is a problem in the first place is because of the absence of adult social and community organizations in working-class neighborhoods, so there is no basis for adult empowerment in the community. The lumpen youths sense this and fill that vacuum, and become the defacto community power. Kids being the power in any community is a sure recipe for destructive chaos.

Never "give" them anything, all that will do is prove to them that social extortion works and will encourage even more of the same. If there is a need for something like a youth community'/rec center, that is brought up in a confrontation between the organized community adults and the marauding youth, fine. Don't build it for them. Get a bunch of bricks and lumber and a few experienced construction workers to supervise, and make the kids build it themselves. Similarly for any other unmet social need, make it DIY for them, because DIY promotes both personal and social responsibility, which are the two main things such kids are lacking. Assist, advise, even run interference for them, but don't give then diddlysquat. Make them work for anything they get.

Finally, for some of these kids, there is no "deeper" social cause, it's all about the swagger of dominance and the thrill of violence. This tends to be especially true of the gang leaders, who often are from much more comfortable circumstances than most of their followers. When their dominance over their followers is challenged by the community, the gang leaders will likely respond by pushing their followers to up the ante, become more violent, up to and including killing the community members that oppose gang rule of the streets. You need to be ready for that, and it should be made explicitly clear to the gang leader himself (and yes, it will ALWAYS be HIMself) in private conversation that he needs to expect that anything that happens to any member of the community is 100% certain to happen to him personally, and immediately. Funny how Mr. Alpha Teen Wolf suddenly isn't so tough when it's his ass on the line.