Yesterday

[Bud Struggle]

Now these guys knew how to fight Nazis.

Churchill:


I have also to announce to the House that during the night and the early hours of this morning the first of the series of landings in force upon the European Continent has taken place. In this case the liberating assault fell upon the coast of France. An immense armada of upwards of 4,000 ships, together with several thousand smaller craft, crossed the Channel. Massed airborne landings have been successfully effected behind the enemy lines, and landings on the beaches are proceeding at various points at the present time. The fire of the shore batteries has been largely quelled. The obstacles that were constructed in the sea have not proved so difficult as was apprehended. The Anglo-American Allies are sustained by about 11,000 firstline aircraft, which can be drawn upon as may be needed for the purposes of the battle. I cannot, of course, commit myself to any particular details. Reports are coming in in rapid succession. So far the Commanders who are engaged report that everything is proceeding according to plan. And what a plan! This vast operation is undoubtedly the most complicated and difficult that has ever taken place. It involves tides, wind, waves, visibility, both from the air and the sea standpoint, and the combined employment of land, air and sea forces in the highest degree of intimacy and in contact with conditions which could not and cannot be fully foreseen.

There are already hopes that actual tactical surprise has been attained, and we hope to furnish the enemy with a succession of surprises during the course of the fighting. The battle that has now begun will grow constantly in scale and in intensity for many weeks to come, and I shall not attempt to speculate upon its course. This I may say, however. Complete unity prevails throughout the Allied Armies. There is a brotherhood in arms between us and our friends of the United States. There is complete confidence in the supreme commander, General Eisenhower, and his lieutenants, and als6 in the commander of the Expeditionary Force, General Montgomery. The ardour and spirit of the troops, as I saw myself, embarking in these last few days was splendid to witness. Nothing that equipment, science or forethought could do has been neglected, and the whole process of opening this great new front will be pursued with the utmost resolution both by the commanders and by the United States and British Governments whom they serve.

[Forward Union]

tha tdidnt happen yesterday did it :sleep:

[Peacekeeper]

The Nazis have taken over Europe again?

*grabs rifle*

Let's go!

[Bud Struggle]

The Nazis have taken over Europe again?

*grabs rifle*

Let's go!

Hey, I'm a OI I can't post long titles. (Tags)

Yesterday was the anniversary of D-Day. You Communists spend all your days "fightin' Nazis" and then when a day comes around that commemorates people that died ACTUALLY fighting Nazis--you haven't a clue what it's about.:rolleyes:

Good ta' see you stuck around Peacekeeper.

[PRC-UTE]

Hey, I'm a OI I can't post long titles. (Tags)

Yesterday was the anniversary of D-Day. You Communists spend all your days "fightin' Nazis" and then when a day comes around that commemorates people that died ACTUALLY fighting Nazis--you haven't a clue what it's about.:rolleyes:

Good ta' see you stuck around Peacekeeper.

Well I know it was the anniv of D-Day- not that it would matter if I didn't.

Their crusade against evil didn't do much to end fascism in Spain though, did it?

Btw, the Commies are the ones who primarily defeated the fascist forces, including the Nazis. That makes your criticisms kind of weird.

[Forward Union]

Hey, I'm a OI I can't post long titles. (Tags)

Yesterday was the anniversary of D-Day. You Communists spend all your days "fightin' Nazis" and then when a day comes around that commemorates people that died ACTUALLY fighting Nazis--you haven't a clue what it's about.:rolleyes:

Good ta' see you stuck around Peacekeeper.

I dont dedicate any time fighting nazis.

Churchill ordered the shooting of Striking miners and ordered the first use of toxic gas on people in the middle east. Infact he said

"I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes."

He also proposed the use of 40,000 anthrax bombs on German cities in an operation he called "thunderclap" but the American wouldn't let him so he ordered the use of incedary instead.

On Race Churchill sated


I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place

I don't see inter-imperialist fuedes where rich people make poor people kill other poor people as "anti-fascism"

[Phalanx]

The difference between Churchill and stormfront is that people on stormfront haven't actually killed for their 'race'.

Though I shouldn't criticize Churchill when us in the States allowed worse people into office.

[Bud Struggle]

Wat, I'm no expert on Churchill--my point was less about him than it was about D-Day. As far as being brutal to people--so were Stalin and his Communists, no news there. They all were pretty bloody.

BUT a lot of decent people died keeping the Fascists at bay in Europe. My point was to honor them. Churchill was just the messenger.

Thaks for the info, though. I didn't know any of that.


Btw, the Commies are the ones who primarily defeated the fascist forces, including the Nazis. That makes your criticisms kind of weird.

The Commies only fought the Nazis because they were betrayed by Hitler--they would have been happy to have been Hitler's allies as they planned. Not much moral authority comming from them.

The English and the Americans fought for the right reasons.

Anyway, more to the point of my kind of guy:

Patton's Normandy Invasion Speech:


"Be Seated."

"Men, this stuff we hear about America wanting to stay out of the war, not wanting to fight, is a lot of bull****. Americans love to fight - traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble player; the fastest runner; the big league ball players; the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win - all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost, not ever will lose a war, for the very thought of losing is hateful to an American."

"You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Every man is frightened at first in battle. If he says he isn't, he's a goddamn liar. Some men are cowards, yes! But they fight just the same, or get the hell shamed out of them watching men who do fight who are just as scared. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some get over their fright in a minute under fire, some take an hour. For some it takes days. But the real man never lets fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to this country and his innate manhood."

"All through your army career you men have *****ed about "This chicken**** drilling." That is all for a purpose. Drilling and discipline must be maintained in any army if for only one reason -- INSTANT OBEDIENCE TO ORDERS AND TO CREATE CONSTANT ALERTNESS. I don't give a damn for a man who is not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready. A man to continue breathing must be alert at all times. If not, sometime a German son-of-a-***** will sneak up behind him and beat him to death with a sock full of ****."

"There are 400 neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily all because one man went to sleep on his job -- but they were German graves for we caught the bastard asleep before his officers did. An Army is a team. Lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting, under fire, than they do about ****ing. We have the best food, the finest equipment, the best spirit and the best fighting men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity these poor sons-of-*****es we are going up against. By God, I do!"

"My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he is hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight. That's not just bull****, either. The kind of man I want under me is like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Lugar against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand and busted hell out of the Boche with the helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German: All this with a bullet through his lung. That's a man for you."

"All real heroes are not story book combat fighters either. Every man in the army plays a vital part. Every little job is essential. Don't ever let down, thinking your role is unimportant. Every man has a job to do. Every man is a link in the great chain. What if every truck driver decided that he didn't like the whine of the shells overhead, turned yellow and jumped headlong into the ditch? He could say to himself, "They won't miss me -- just one in thousands." What if every man said that? Where in hell would we be now? No, thank God, Americans don't say that! Every man does his job; every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important to the vast scheme of things. The Ordnance men are needed to supply the guns, the Quartermaster to bring up the food and clothes to us -- for where we're going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man in the mess hall, even the one who heats the water to keep us from getting the GI ****s has a job to do. Even the chaplain is important, for if we get killed and if he is not there to bury us we'd all go to hell."

"Each man must not only think of himself, but of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this army. They should all be killed off like flies. If not they will go back home after the war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed brave men. Kill off the goddamn cowards and we'll have a nation of brave men."

"One of the bravest men I ever saw in the African campaign was the fellow I saw on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of furious fire while we were plowing toward Tunis. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at that time. He answered, "Fixing the wire, sir." "Isn't it a little unhealthy right now?," I asked. "Yes sir, but this goddamn wire's got to be fixed." There was a real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how great the odds, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time."

"You should have seen those trucks on the road to Gabes. The drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-*****ing roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting around them all the time. We got through on good old American guts. Many of these men drove over forty consecutive hours. These weren't combat men. But they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it -- and in a whale of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without them the fight would have been lost. All the links in the chain pulled together and that chain became unbreakable."

"Don't forget, you don't know I'm here. No word of the fact is to be mentioned in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell became of me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the goddamn Germans. Someday I want them to raise up on their hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the goddamn Third Army and that son-of-a-***** Patton again.'"

"We want to get the hell over there. We want to get over there and clear the goddamn thing up. You can't win a war lying down. The quicker we clean up this goddamn mess, the quicker we can take a jaunt against the purple pissing Japs an clean their nest out too, before the Marines get all the goddamn credit."

"Sure, we all want to be home. We want this thing over with. The quickest way to get it over is to get the bastards. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin. When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a Boche will get him eventually, and the hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one. We'll win this war but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans we've got more guts than they have."

"There is one great thing you men will all be able to say when you go home. You may thank God for it. Thank God, that at least, thirty years from now, when you are sitting around the fireside with your grandson on your knees, and he asks you what you did in the great war, you won't have to cough and say, 'I shoveled **** in Louisiana.' No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, 'Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-***** named George Patton!'"

"That is all."

[Bright Banana Beard]

Wat, I'm no expert on Churchill--my point was less about him than it was about D-Day. As far as being brutal to people--so were Stalin and his Communists, no news there. They all were pretty bloody.

Of course, it was bloody. The Nazis has to send more tanks and soldiers on the Eastern Front and it has to move 4/5 of it's military strength to the Eastern Front while 1/5 on the Western Front, they want to give up to the American because they pretty know much that those Commies will beat the shit outta them after the failure of Leningrad and Stalingrad (coincidence wow). If they didn't send many of their soldiers to the Eastern Front, they would lose the war very quickly and USSR would control most of the Europe.
Sadly, both of these country used conscription, but there been case that the Russian is mainly volunteer because their country was under attack and the Soviet propaganda pretty much make them fight for Mother Russia.


they would have been happy to have been Hitler's allies as they planned. Not much moral authority coming from them.
well, kind of true, except they did not want to work with Hitler, but just do not want Hitler to attack them as they very busy to turn USSR into a industry nation, but the war set that back and pretty much took Hitler by surprise.


The English and the Americans fought for the right reasons. Russia suffers the most and it was the Americans that beam themselves heroes and not the Russian. The Red Army did heck of the job as there are chaos and terror on their blood and still able to function to fight the Nazis. The American, they just being careful and they barely fight except the Imperialism Japanese which involve massive amount of causality on both sides.

WWII draw me into what the hell was communism because USSR was the biggest contributor of fighting the Nazis Germany.

[Peacekeeper]

80% of German casualties in WWII were inflicted by the Red Army and Soviet partisans.

[Killfacer]

any one who disputes the validity of English resistance and the effect it had during the war is both an idiot and has no historical knowledge what so ever.

Now im the first to admit that Churchill was a bit of a prick. His views on the rights of women where atrocious and he was very conservative. But his contribution to the war effort was huge. Go speak to your parents or gand parents (if you live in England), they will tell you about his contribution. His dogged attitude save Britain. As a leader in peace time he was poor at best, but during the war i would have no one else.

I believe someone mentioned communist Russia being primarily the defeaters of the Nazis. Thats ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, do you think that without the problem of the UK and the yanks, that the Germans would not of been capable of defeating the USSR. Clearly not, Stalingrad was on a knife edge, if the thousands of troops tide up on the western front had been able to fight on the eastern front im sure a different outcome would have been assured. Lets not forget the logistical nightmare for the Nazis, fighting enemies not only in east and west Europe but also fighting the Brits in Africa. No single member of the allies contributed more or less than the other. They contributed what they could (except France, they didn't), and it is hardly suprising that the Russians used more troops when you consider the idiocy of its leaders and its vast population. No one with historical knowledge denies that the Russians contributed huge amounts to the war, so actually your attacking straw men (its a phrase that people on revleft use so much so i thought i should say it).

[Bud Struggle]

well, kind of true, except they did not want to work with Hitler, but just do not want Hitler to attack them as they very busy to turn USSR into a industry nation, but the war set that back and pretty much took Hitler by surprise.
Hey we would all love to be turning our country into an industrial nation--but when the Wehrmecht comes acalling sometimes you have to answer the door bell. The difference is--the USA didn't HAVE to come to Europe's aid--but they did. Just like the SU didn't come to America's aid in the Pacific and they didn't.


Russia suffers the most and it was the Americans that beam themselves heroes and not the Russian. The Red Army did heck of the job as there are chaos and terror on their blood and still able to function to fight the Nazis. The American, they just being careful and they barely fight except the Imperialism Japanese which involve massive amount of causality on both sides.

America fought both wars the SU didn't. Also, America gave the SU tanks and guns and ammunition--they helped the SU win the war.


WWII draw me into what the hell was communism because USSR was the biggest contributor of fighting the Nazis Germany.

And as I said, if Hitler didn't turn on them the SU would have been Hitler's biggest friend. I'm not saying that the SU didn't do a good job when forced to--I'm just saying that they were morally bankrupt in their reasons for fighting.

[Bright Banana Beard]

any one who disputes the validity of English resistance and the effect it had during the war is both an idiot and has no historical knowledge what so ever. I do not dispute this, they did well to stop the Germany from invading the country, but even English government impose conscription on its citizen before the pearl harbor. The Resistance even do well, and there was many Spaniard who escaped from Franco in the Free French Force to fight against the Nazis Germany.


I believe someone mentioned communist Russia being primarily the defeaters of the Nazis. they did in most term, but they not the primarily, they barely have any supply to defend themselves and secondly, their organization is strictly control and there were many deserter, without many plane and bang! they fought bloodily against the Cold-infested Nazis Germany Army. If Hitler did not attack Russia and focus on the Western Europe, they could already takeover Britain. But the fact is that the German need to send many military to takeover Soviet Russia and thus, have to postpone the invasion.



Firstly, do you think that without the problem of the UK and the yanks, that the Germans would not of been capable of defeating the USSR. Clearly not, Stalingrad was on a knife edge, if the thousands of troops tide up on the western front had been able to fight on the eastern frontThe massive population made it clear the Germany could not takeover Russia, or China, Mongol will realize it needs to send help to USSR because they clearly will be next.


Lets not forget the logistical nightmare for the Nazis, fighting enemies not only in east and west Europe but also fighting the Brits in Africa. If only Hitler realize that invading Russia is not a smart choice now, then the fight in Africa will be longer and even more bloodier.


They contributed what they could (except France, they didn't), and it is hardly surprising that the Russians used more troops when you consider the idiocy of its leaders and its vast population. Clearly, the resistance under Nazis Germany helps to stop the transportation of military goods, they ARE, IMO,a necessary and major contributor to stop the Nazis Germany or otherwise, the war will last more longer.


Hey we would all love to be turning our country into an industrial nation--but when the Wehrmecht comes acalling sometimes you have to answer the door bell. The difference is--the USA didn't HAVE to come to Europe's aid--but they did. Just like the SU didn't come to America's aid in the Pacific and they didn't.Neither does Germany or Japan send aids on each other, but they share technology and other information crucial to improve their military, but they do not have to do it too. Japan is not interest in attacking Russia because they already have majority of Eastern Asia and now focusing on Pacific campaign.


America fought both wars the SU didn't. Both of them fight the both war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet-Japanese_Border_Wars


Also, America gave the SU tanks and guns and ammunition--they helped the SU win the war. America realize it going to need Soviet's help, otherwise they will face massive causalities on their army too, however their mainland are safe from Nazis Germany.


Hitler didn't turn on them the SU would have been Hitler's biggest friend. I'm just saying that they were morally bankrupt in their reasons for fighting. Agreed.

[Killfacer]

its a ridiculous conversation anyway. No one countries war effort is more valid than the others. The millions of young men who died fighting for all the allies contributed their most and saying one is more valid than the other is stupid. I think most people would agree that all the countries involved (but mainly England :lol:) where heroic in their defiance on the nazis.

[Kronos]

Patton's Normandy Invasion Speech:

What he should have said was:

Be seated.

Gentlemen, soldiers, patriots, and Leave It To Beaver fans, the necessary time for our country to remain hidden so that we wouldn't get our asses handed to us is now passed. The Nazis are exhausted, thanks to the efforts of armies other than our own, and now is our chance to make a big premier and pretend like we are the heroes (as we will do several times in the next seven decades). This will be easy to do, since, thanks to the Russians (who we will later stab in the back with the Truman Pact), and a few of our allies, seventy-five percent of the remaining Nazi army holding the Atlantic Wall are either eighteen year old kids, or men so old they are mounted on wheel-chairs. Also, rest assured that even if you all die, we will still win the war. We have issued an embargo with Japan, and because of that they will attack Pearl Harbor. In return, we will drop two atomic bombs on THE GENERAL POPULATION, not military targets, mind you, on Japan. This will scare the living shit out of everyone, the war will end, and we will continue to spread our capitalist cancer throughout the entire world. Although many of you will die, know that your sons and daughters will become rich from selling the imported products made by the sons and daughters of the Japanese folks we will bomb the shit out of in just months from now.

Other than that, I don't mean to spoil the fun, but compared to the Nazis and the Red Army, you idiots are like a bunch of meat-heads straight out of a highschool locker room. You haven't a fraction of the discipline, prowess, and dedication that those guys have. The only person I imagine is worse is that fat bastard Churchill. Have you ever seen a guy try so much to look hard in the photographs they take of him, but ends up looking like a bloated whale sucking the life out of an oversized cigar?

Never mind all that. Let's get to it. Planes leaving in three hours. Nows the time to tell your girlfriend, ol' Mary-Jane rotten crotch, that you love her.

[Bud Struggle]

the Red Army, you idiots are like a bunch of meat-heads straight out of a highschool locker room. You haven't a fraction of the discipline, prowess, and dedication that those guys have..

Ah, the Red Army! Where are they now?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lNFRLrP014

Alabama. Kronos--your ass is so whooped by reality, it's kind of touching.

Hey, you're a really smart guy. Knock off all this Commie stuff and do something with your life--you're a first rate builder, build something--own it. sell it, make money, move on. Stop it with all this Commie stuff--get a life. For all your Communist this and Communist that--they certainly don't want you. You're RESTRICTED. Just like a bourgoise like me. So much that Marx has done for you.

Now get your head together and realize that Capitalism is all that is, all that was, and all that will ever be. No workers are going to start any Revolution--you know these guys, you work with them. It ain't going to happen, is it? So stop dreaming and get your life together forget being in RevLefy because they aren't going to have you no matter what you say, and go out in the wide world and make your fortune and depend on no one except youself. No collectivization, no brotherhood, no union, no soviet. Just Kronos contra mundum.

You'll do fine.

[Dust Bunnies]

I love Patton's quotes and that speech and the fake one above my post is good.

[Red October]

It's historically irresponsible to downplay the contributions of any country in WW2. Like it or not, the western powers did contribute a great deal to Germany's defeat, whether they contributed as much or more than the USSR is debatable.

Men like Churchill have no legitimate claim to being "anti-fascists" though. The English conservatives refused to aid the fight against fascism in Spain and supported the horrible repression in their colonies. They would not have fought against fascism if it did not personally threaten their global position and influence.

[PRC-UTE]

I believe someone mentioned communist Russia being primarily the defeaters of the Nazis. Thats ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, do you think that without the problem of the UK and the yanks, that the Germans would not of been capable of defeating the USSR. Clearly not, Stalingrad was on a knife edge, if the thousands of troops tide up on the western front had been able to fight on the eastern front im sure a different outcome would have been assured. Lets not forget the logistical nightmare for the Nazis, fighting enemies not only in east and west Europe but also fighting the Brits in Africa. No single member of the allies contributed more or less than the other. They contributed what they could (except France, they didn't), and it is hardly suprising that the Russians used more troops when you consider the idiocy of its leaders and its vast population. No one with historical knowledge denies that the Russians contributed huge amounts to the war, so actually your attacking straw men (its a phrase that people on revleft use so much so i thought i should say it).

It's a fact that the Soviets did the bulk of the fighting, took t he most casualties and it's widely acknowledged that the Yanks were dragging their feet with helping. It's also difficult to claim that the Soviets wouldn't've won without the aid of the west, as Stalingrad was the turning point for the Germans, and that began before the US began to supply them with steel and other materiel.

I can dig up some sources for you if you want, I've a few books on the subject.

[Killfacer]

but red october pointed it out, its difficult to judge the contributions that each one of the allies had. You have to look at it comparatively aswell, obviously the UK contributed less; its populations is far smaller.

Id also like to point out that even if you dont like churchill, he is still a extremely effective war leader, one who may have saved britain.

[Dystisis]

All my troubles seemed so far away.

[pusher robot]

Now, I understand the Russians' resentment a little. After all, they did arguably sacrifice the most of all the allies, yet the western allies (perhaps somewhat understandably) focus on their own activities in their media, which happens to be disproportionately dominant worldwide.

On the other hand, it's outright fantasy to think that any one of the allies could have beat the axis powers on their own. Just as the US and Britain would have failed had the USSR not repelled the Germans and crushed their panzer divisions with their marvelous T-34 tanks, so the Russians could not have maintained their effort to Berlin without, for example, the USAF and RAF raining utter devastation on virtually every German industrial and military asset with their seemingly inexhaustible supply of heavy bombers.

[RGacky3]

The Great Winston Churchill: (After being called drunk by a Lady)

"This may be well and true, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

Thats probably my favorate quote of all time.

[Phalanx]

Although Chuchill was a prick, I think he did all he could in the fight against the Axis. By the time December 7 1941 rolled around, England was exhausted in its fight against the Axis.

American attention was divided between Japan and Germany. Afterall, it was Japan that had attacked us. I'm sure some American leaders wanted Russia and Germany to destroy themselves and that probably had alot to do with decision making.

[KC]

The difference is--the USA didn't HAVE to come to Europe's aid--but they did. Just like the SU didn't come to America's aid in the Pacific and they didn't.

Why do you think the US got involved in WWII?

[Killfacer]

i assume you have some really snappy response that you will whip out as soon as somebody sais "to help Brits and to fight the nazis"