Any genuine Punks around ?

[Grunt]

Hi !

I am just a newbie. I am a Punk.

I am wondering if any other punk's are around here
at RevLeft...:)

[Kropotesta]

Yeah, however I have been straying away from it rcently, been into it for about 6/5 years, the proper stuff.

[Grunt]

Yeah, however I have been straying away from it rcently, been into it for about 6/5 years, the proper stuff.
Cool ! :) Yeah - I get you: Proper stuff !! :D

Annoying and offending the non-thinking square sheep with looks,
action and music !!

EXPLOITED BARMY ARMY - DON't MESS WITH US ! :cursing:

[communard resolution]

I was 'a punk' for 6 years or so, then got bored with the conformism within the scene. Also got into lots of other music that was 'verboten' from a punk point of view. Still a punk rocker at heart but not willing to follow punk rules since they make no sense.

[Kropotesta]

Well I did go through the whole street punk part, I still like the music, but that progressed into the more anarcho punk stuff quite ahwhile back.
What bands you into then?

[communard resolution]

Well I did go through the whole street punk part, I still like the music, but that progressed into the more anarcho punk stuff quite ahwhile back.
What bands you into then?

Went through different phases. Started out liking '77 stuff such as The Damned, Clash, Johnny Moped. Got into UK 82, street punk/oi and a bit of anarcho after that. Then briefly into Oi Polloi style crust. Then the 70s NYC punk scene, Johnny Thunders and Ramones style, also garage punk, rock'n'roll, proto punk (Stooges and such), glam, etc.

These days I still love the best bands from all of these genres, but I also like stuff that's really uncool from a punk perspective (even disco!), so I guess I wouldn't be considered a punk by popular standards anymore. What has stuck with me the most is the Johnny Thunders/New York Dolls/Stooges type proto punk I think. And I love Grazhdanskaya Oborona, a Russian punk band from the 80s and 90s.

[Kropotesta]

haha I know what you mean, I've gone through the stages of punk in that order to, minus the garage stuff. Still like all the bands but been getting into abit NWA and abit of deathcore/death metal recently. Also wanting to have my politics taken more seriously, "ooo punk anarchist" is making me dress down abit n'all.

[communard resolution]

I like NWA too, but I like Public Enemy a lot more.

[Kropotesta]

I like NWA too, but I like Public Enemy a lot more.
Really? hmm I just find Dr Dre so smooth. Also Flava Flav is kinda annoying, infact PE are playing near me soon, may have to check it out if it weren't 20 odd quid.

[IcarusAngel]

Thanks for naming the "genuine punk bands" you listen to. There was a "punk appreciation" thread around here a while ago that was pretty good.

I listen to a lot of crust/grindcore punk like Fester Youth (chicano punk), capitali$t casualties, aus rotten, axiom, anticimix, and so on.

And then do listen to some street punk like the unseen.

But mostly i like a lot of 80s and some 90s hardcore like Born Against, Turning Point, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Youth of Today, Stretch Armstrong, etc.

[Grunt]

You guys are cool ! :)

I feel less alone ! Any of you guys still has a mohawk ? :D
I have a really offensive pink one right now - and its so
awesome that everybody is annoyed/offended/afraid - :lol:

I like most of the britt-punk classics, some american-stuff,
Oi!-Punk - but also speed-metal, death metal.

...and I have a terrible weakness for J-Rock (like X-Japan) :blushing:

I like politically outspoken bands like Exploited and UK-Subs.

I have to admit that I spend a lot of money, energy and
time in 'style'-issues, like haircut and colour and outrageous
clothing....

For me punk is (like Johnny Rotten ofte said) about being me,
expressing my own personality - and offending the square-
fuckers, and perhaps make them think...

[Kropotesta]

Bands I like are Crass, Conflict, Aus Rotten, Behind Enemy Lines, GBH, The Exploited, Garmonbozia, The Casualties, Leftover Crack, The Restarts, Discharge etc

[communard resolution]

Thanks for naming the "genuine punk bands" you listen to.

Haha! Yes, I guess NWA and Public Enemy were a bit off-topic. Still the thread is about "genuine punks" not "genuine punk bands". Dunno if I'm a genuine punk (and furthermore I don't care), but I used to be part of that subculture until I got bored to tears with it, and now this is what I also listen to.

[communard resolution]

Bands I like are Crass, Conflict, Aus Rotten, Behind Enemy Lines, GBH, The Exploited, Garmonbozia, The Casualties, Leftover Crack, The Restarts, Discharge etc

Yeah, melikes Discharge a whole fucking lot.

[Ultra-Violence]

Was up from LOS ANGELES! Up the PUNX! Cheers and BEER!

[The Love Pirate]

I was 'a punk' for 6 years or so, then got bored with the conformism within the scene.

Yes, this. Not to mention that I never really "looked" the part so I think I stuck out like a sore thumb!

The Clash were the best ever as far as I'm concerned. I like the Sex Pistols but I feel like they're a bit over-rated. I absolutely adore the Slits, the X-Ray Spex, the Buzzcocks, the Lurkers, Nina Hagen, the Ramones, Wire, X, the Modern Lovers, Essential Logic...and a whole bunch of others I can't think of right now. I have seen Nina Hagen and the Slits live.

I like some of the better known old-school scenesters like Sham 69, Dead Kennedys, Husker Du, Blondie, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Black Flag, and the Misfits, but not quite as much.

Sadly, very few of my friends are much into punk.

[communard resolution]

I have seen Nina Hagen and the Slits live.I saw Nina Hagen around '96 or '97, and she was amazing. I feel that people who do things their own way like her are actually far more punk than those who do it by the book. When did you get to see her?
Sadly, I've never seen Siouxie or The Slits. And I have always found X-Ray Spex kind of annoying.

[Post-Something]

Yeah, I'll always be a punk deep down. Although I listen to post rock mostly now...


My favorite punk bands are mostly 80's/hardcore/post hardcore: Fugazi, Minor threat, chocking victim, leftover crack, bad brains, big black, descendents, operation ivy, burning airlines, the casualties, the germs, refused, etc.

But yeah, I find it a boring scene. I never dressed like a punk, and I was really attracted to the DIY ethic as opposed to the dress sense or anything. Most punks who say that the it's expression or whatever just copy it off of someone else.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

You've already met me, Grunt. . .

Once again, yes I do punk, but I prefer my old vinyl Ramones, Clash, and Sex Pistols to the crappy psudo-punk coming out right now.
Sometimes I go and see barbands, too.

[Grunt]

... but I used to be part of that subculture until I got bored to tears with it, and now this is what I also listen to.
You got bored ? :( How come ?

[Grunt]

Was up from LOS ANGELES! Up the PUNX! Cheers and BEER!
Up the PUNX !! Anarchy and BEER ! :D

GBG-PUNX greetings to LA-PUNX !

FUCK THE SYSTEM ! :cursing:



http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Punk/cazzzz.jpg

[Grunt]

Yes, this. Not to mention that I never really "looked" the part so I think I stuck out like a sore thumb!

The Clash were the best ever as far as I'm concerned. I like the Sex Pistols but I feel like they're a bit over-rated. I absolutely adore the Slits, the X-Ray Spex, the Buzzcocks, the Lurkers, Nina Hagen, the Ramones, Wire, X, the Modern Lovers, Essential Logic...and a whole bunch of others I can't think of right now. I have seen Nina Hagen and the Slits live.

I like some of the better known old-school scenesters like Sham 69, Dead Kennedys, Husker Du, Blondie, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Black Flag, and the Misfits, but not quite as much.

Sadly, very few of my friends are much into punk.
You have good taste, pirate ! :)

Siouxsie is awesome !

Orginally punk-look meant: Wear anything you like and don't
give a fuck about whether others like it or not.

But it's probably true - although there is no dress code in
punk there still is a certain style associated with punk
nowadays.

Luckily its just the right style for me ! :)

I like to offend people !

[Grunt]

Yeah, I'll always be a punk deep down. Although I listen to post rock mostly now...
Awesome !

And you have GREAT taste in music, although I don't know all
the bands...

So thanks for the tips ! :)



But yeah, I find it a boring scene.
How come ? Music, Anarchy, Beer and Violence ! :D




Most punks who say that the it's expression or whatever just copy it off
of someone else.
Well - yes - maybe you have a point. But whats wrong with getting
inspiration and add something - the end-result is still me expressing
me and offend the square fuckers.

You wouldn't believe how many hours I worked on my jacket for
example - not to get it right for soemeone else - NO !

To get it right for me ! :D

[Kropotesta]

How come ? Music, Anarchy, Beer and Violence ! :D
That's probably why they got bored of it. People who think they're anarchists when they don't know what it means. Alcoholism and junkies. Also people thinking violence is a good thing to randomly do.

[Grunt]

That's probably why they got bored of it. People who think they're anarchists when they don't know what it means. Alcoholism and junkies. Also people thinking violence is a good thing to randomly do.
OK - thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[Kropotesta]

OK - thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.
What? I'm active in my punk scene. What offended you/wasn't true about what I posted? eh?

[Grunt]

What? I'm active in my punk scene.
Good ! How do you manage to get along with them ?



What offended you/wasn't true about what I posted? eh?
Nothing offended me, I didnt say it did, did I ?

Only - from reading your post some people might think that all
Punx are alcoholics and junkies.

Plus: There actually exist punx who know a little bit about
anarchy - believe it or not. :)

[Kropotesta]

Good ! How do you manage to get along with them ?
Because I'm mates with them?



Nothing offended me, I didnt say it did, did I ?
You posted a angry face, so I assumed I had something that offended you.


Only - from reading your post some people might think that all
Punx are alcoholics and junkies.

Plus: There actually exist punx who know a little bit about
anarchy - believe it or not. :)
I'd of thought that people here would know but than to generalise punks anyways.
I know alot of punks actually know what anarchism is. But a fair free equate it with chaos like what the Exploited tend to say.

[Grunt]

Because I'm mates with them?
Cool! :)




You posted a angry face, so I assumed I had something that offended you.
I was just searching for a smiley that shows disagreement.
Obviously I chose the wrong one. Sorry !



I know alot of punks actually know what anarchism is. But a fair free equate it with chaos like what the Exploited tend to say.
Yeah - I know. Its difficult to explain. Chaos and what the
Exploited say plus violence (I am not afraid to admitt it) are in a
way means to disturb and offend 'the system'.

Many punx are (unfortunately) not interested in reading political
stuff...

I am a bit of both: I know that chaos and random destruction and
violence are not anarchy - but its such a lot of fun ! :D

Disturbing, offending and annoying the henchmen of the system
as much as possible by any means - thats the name of the game.

[Kropotesta]

Disturbing, offending and annoying the henchmen of the system
as much as possible by any means - thats the name of the game.
I'm pretty sure they don't care about a few people running bout with mohicans and leather jackets though.

[Grunt]

I'm pretty sure they don't care about a few people running bout with mohicans and leather jackets though.
Oh - you are wrong there ! Sure, in the greater scheme of things
perhaps not. But on the local level - thats different.

...and don't forget: Making a statement by showing people that one
has a choice whether to adapt to the system 100% or not can't be
that wrong. :D

[Grunt]

Checking out now ! Punx too must sleep. :lol:

This is a good thread - I like it !

Will join you again tomorrow ! :)

[Kropotesta]

but alot punks do 100% conform to capitalism or do all of their clothes fall out of the sky?
I know this isn't true of all punks.

[Post-Something]

but alot punks do 100% conform to capitalism or do all of their clothes fall out of the sky?
I know this isn't true of all punks.

http://www.conservativepunk.com/

Check out the clothes section.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

but alot punks do 100% conform to capitalism or do all of their clothes fall out of the sky?
I know this isn't true of all punks.
True that. . .like the Hot Topic (owned by Abacrombie) crowd.
:laugh:
I laugh (literally) when I see a Che Guevara or anarchy shirts walking in there.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

http://www.conservativepunk.com/

Check out the clothes section.
:confused: cApitalism: smash the welfare state?

Wowsa

[communard resolution]

You got bored ? :( How come ?

It was just a feeling, so it's hard to explain in words. I think the main reason was the conformism among punks. At some point, being in that scene started feeling a bit like a straitjacket: too many rules.

All the fanzines were having endless petty debates wondering what is and what isn't "punk", which I thought was a really trivial thing to invest any thought and time into, esp given that 'punk' had originally been a buzzword created by the music industry to sell records and papers. I think the moment you're concerned whether something is "punk" or not, you're trying to live by someone else's rules.

I also started to discover lots of other music and grew bored with just listening to punk all the time. And I started liking some clothing styles that weren't punk. Suddenly most of the punks that I used to think were so cool when I was 15 seemed like squares to me: conservative, obsessed with rules and rituals, scared of anything new or different. Kind of like the OLD TEDDY BOYS in the 70s, only with a bigger sense of self-importance. Does that make sense?

I still love a lot of the music and in a sense I'll always remain a punk rocker at heart whether I want to or not, but I guess I prefer to do things "My Way" now.

[welshboy]

I'm a genuine ex-punk :)
Not really listened to much punk for years besides Bad Religion.
I used to be really into the whole crusty street/squatter punk thing but got pissed off with all the junkies and my mates dieing through OD'ing and what not. It did used to be a great laugh though hitch hiking around the country and being able to roll up in any town and find a group of crusties drinking and having a laugh.
Then smack became even more prevalent than it had been before and I fucked it all off.
I still shave a mohawk in though every now and again for old times sake :)
RE:Conservative Punk website OMFG!!!

[communard resolution]

I used to be really into the whole crusty street/squatter punk thing but got pissed off with all the junkies and my mates dieing through OD'ing and what not.

Smack used to be very present in the punk scene I grew up with too & it killed a fair amount of people. I didn't know heroin was so prevalent in the crustie scene? I wasn't so much into crust, my scene was more of a classic 80s hardcore punk one. I went all the way to Edinburgh for the "European City of Punk" festival in like '94 or '95, though, which was very crustie dominated. Crusties seemed very healthy to me back then: mostly vegan and just drinking cider as far as drugs. When did that change?

[moonmoon]

oh,they are cool.cool~

[TheAnarchyKid]

depends on your definition of punk i listen to LOC, CV, Intro5pect, A//political, AAA, Agent orange, Crass, ect...... dont know about how i dress i kinda wear whatever, like now im wearing pjs under some jeans i made into shorts with a green sweater under a vintage military jacket with the sleavs cut at the elbow i consider myself a punk but i have heard otherwise dosent really matter what other people think i just like hearing what peoples odeas of punk are.

[communard resolution]

Agent Orange, the SoCal band who did "Bloodstains"? They were GOOD. Don't remind me of all those great bands, or I'll feel temped to become a full-blown punk again, against my better knowledge.

Which reminds that another great SoCal band Adolescents are on tour through Europe this month. I think I'm gonna go.

[Grunt]

but alot punks do 100% conform to capitalism or do all of their clothes fall out of the sky?
I know this isn't true of all punks.
Some do - yes. Otherwise its still a lot DIY. Of course (and maybe
regrettably) most Punx have a leatherjacket and buy cloths and stuff.

But its my salary - and is it really so bad if I use part of it to express
myself ?

Its not about fashion !! But again: In any group of Punx who meet
regularly - there always seems to be a 'secret' fress-code emerging.

Thats bad and makes me fucking angry !

I like origianlity and spontaneity, like that girl who walked up
Kings Road in London with only a see-through raincoat on.
Thats Punk ! :D

[Grunt]

http://www.conservativepunk.com/

Check out the clothes section.
Thanks for posting - I had no idea that such an abomination
existed.

Its not even funny or ridiculous. It is in the deepest and sincerest
meaning of the word: Perversion.

Has it come that far ? Betraying virtually EVERYTHING our movement
stands for - and calling it 'Punk' ?

Sid Vicious, Ian Curtis, Joe Strummer, Joey Ramone, Dee Dee Ramone
and all the others are turning in their graves.....:(

[communard resolution]

Has it come that far ? Betraying virtually EVERYTHING our movement
stands for - and calling it 'Punk' ?There's always been left-wing, right-wing, and apolitical punks.




Sid Vicious, Ian Curtis, Joe Strummer, Joey Ramone, Dee Dee Ramone
and all the others are turning in their gravesSorry to disappoint you, but Ian Curtis certainly isn't turning in his grave as he always voted Conservative. Dee Dee might be turning in his grave (I don't think he cared much about politics though), but Johnny Ramone was a staunch Republican.

[Grunt]

Thanks for your answer Caligula ! :)


It was just a feeling, so it's hard to explain in words. I think the main reason was the conformism among punks. At some point, being in that scene started feeling a bit like a straitjacket: too many rules.
Yeah - I know. The 'secret' rules and the 'secret' dresscode...
They always pop up sooner or later in any given group of punx.

I try to fight it best I can, because Punk is non-conformist in its
very core. Originallity and individuality are important.

Dress how you like to dress, behave like you. No group-pressure
and shit.

Some no-brainers in my community recently came up with
'Mohawks' are out. I told them to fuck themselves.

Sometimes its ridiculous - like how many spikes on your jacket
in which place...:(

Still: I believe in the movement, there are still some really
interesting people around.

Do anything you wanna do - provided you offend/annoy the
square-fuckers.



All the fanzines were having endless petty debates wondering what is and what isn't "punk", which I thought was a really trivial thing to invest any thought and time into,
You are right. It is trivial !




I think the moment you're concerned whether something is "punk" or not, you're trying to live by someone else's rules.
For me some of the true 'properties' of Punk are: Offense,
creativity and originality (...and FUN ! :) ).

For me: Everything goes as long as its original, creative and
offending.

Goes for music, clothes, people, everything.

[Grunt]

There's always been left-wing, right-wing, and apolitical punks.
There's been Anarcho-Punx, Nazi-Punx and No Future Punx - and
posers !!!





Sorry to disappoint you, but Ian Curtis certainly isn't turning in his grave as he always voted Conservative. Dee Dee might be turning in his grave (I don't think he cared about politics much), but Johnny Ramone was a staunch Republican.
Thats why I didn't name Johnny - if you look at my post ! :)
Ian Curtis conservative ? Well-OK. His music saves him from
'eternal damnation' :D

[Grunt]

I'm a genuine ex-punk :)
Not really listened to much punk for years besides Bad Religion.
I used to be really into the whole crusty street/squatter punk thing but got pissed off with all the junkies and my mates dieing through OD'ing and what not. It did used to be a great laugh though hitch hiking around the country and being able to roll up in any town and find a group of crusties drinking and having a laugh.
Then smack became even more prevalent than it had been before and I fucked it all off.
I still shave a mohawk in though every now and again for old times sake :)
RE:Conservative Punk website OMFG!!!
You still have a mohawk from time to time ? Awesome !

Whats your favourite colour ?

Heroin has made its entrance very very late here in Sweden,
at least where I live. About 4-5 years ago (!).

Still: Its a disaster ! Lost good friends, who were 'the genuine
brand' to that shit from hell...:(

[Kropotesta]

Its not about fashion !!
Yes it is, partly, how can't it be when you have say streek punk, crust, anarcho and so on, they all have a certain style of music and clothes that are different to the other sub-subculture.

[communard resolution]

Punk's not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don't matter, it's who you know
If the music's gotten boring
It's because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that's left Is just a meaningless fad

So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents

(Dead Kennedys: 'Chickenshit Conformist', 1986)

I only really got this lyric when I left the 'scene' behind.

[Grunt]

...they all have a certain style of music and clothes that are different to the other sub-subculture.
OK-music is one thing. I do not associate music with fashion.
Maybe there are idiots and posers who pretend to like certain music -
but thats their problem.

I see nothing wrong with the fact that for example Oi!-Punx listen
to different music then other Punx.

Me - I listen to what I like. And if somebody has a problem with that -
whether he/she is a punk or not doesn't matter - then Fuck Off.

----

Clothes: Yes, yes, yes. There are different styles, as a matter of
fact each punk-community (however small) has a unique
style. Thats not 'fashion'. Fashion is a concept that the
Exploiters use to exploit.

Don't forget: Your individual style as a punk craves a lot of DIY
and creativity - at least in my community it still does.

Be original ! Be creative ! Buy second hand and create something
new from old clothes ! Express yourself !

...and offend the square-fuckers in any way you can ! :)

[Grunt]

Punk's not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don't matter, it's who you know
If the music's gotten boring
It's because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that's left Is just a meaningless fad

So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents

(Dead Kennedys: 'Chickenshit Conformist', 1986)


Yepp - the 'Kennedys' make a point. Much and many
of Punk has been absorbed by the system, the shit-system.

But not all. Genuine Punk is not dead - but its harder to
find than in the late 70's and 80's.

[communard resolution]

Much and many of Punk has been absorbed by the system, the shit-system.He isn't talking about punks who have been absorbed by the system. He's talking about the 'genuine punks' being absorbed by themselves. And by their scene.

[Kropotesta]

OK-music is one thing. I do not associate music with fashion.
Maybe there are idiots and posers who pretend to like certain music -
but thats their problem.

I see nothing wrong with the fact that for example Oi!-Punx listen
to different music then other Punx.

Me - I listen to what I like. And if somebody has a problem with that -
whether he/she is a punk or not doesn't matter - then Fuck Off.

----

Clothes: Yes, yes, yes. There are different styles, as a matter of
fact each punk-community (however small) has a unique
style. Thats not 'fashion'. Fashion is a concept that the
Exploiters use to exploit.

Don't forget: Your individual style as a punk craves a lot of DIY
and creativity - at least in my community it still does.

Be original ! Be creative ! Buy second hand and create something
new from old clothes ! Express yourself !

...and offend the square-fuckers in any way you can ! :)
if punk is about creavity these days then how come most punks are 'creative' with the same stuff?

[communard resolution]

Grunt,

if you want to know who I think was really a 'genuine punk', read this Wiki entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

starting with "Childhood and Education", and then by all means STOP reading after 1917.

[Grunt]

He isn't talking about punks who have been absorbed by the system. He's talking about the 'genuine punks' being absorbed by themselves. And by their scene.
Maybe.

In the sense that each community is unique ?
That we hang out with each other ?
That we do things together ?
That we (more or less) like the same music ?
That the style (although individual) is similar ?

Is it bad to hang out with people who have (more or
less) the same attitude and convictions ?

Whom shall we hang out with ?

[communard resolution]

Maybe.

In the sense that each community is unique ?
That we hang out with each other ?
That we do things together ?
That we (more or less) like the same music ?
That the style (although individual) is similar ?

Is it bad to hang out with people who have (more or
less) the same attitude and convictions ?

Whom shall we hang out with ?

I may have been too critical. There's nothing wrong with hanging out with people who are into the same things, of course - we all tend to do that. As I said, at some point I didn't find the punk scene that exciting anymore -for many reasons- but as long as you're a punk and are enjoying it... well, ENJOY! I had some great fun in my punk days.

[Grunt]

if punk is about creavity these days then how come most punks are 'creative' with the same stuff?
I already said that (after a while) most community's tend to
create 'secret' dresscodes and stuff.

If this takes over - then its time for a change. You would ve surprised
how tolerant our community here is at the moment regarding clothes
and outfit !!

Come as you are !

[Grunt]

Grunt,

if you want to know who I think was really a 'genuine punk', read this Wiki entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

starting with "Childhood and Education", and then by all means STOP reading after 1917.
Thanks, comrade ! :)

I will read it...NOW! :D

[The Love Pirate]

I saw Nina Hagen around '96 or '97, and she was amazing. I feel that people who do things their own way like her are actually far more punk than those who do it by the book. When did you get to see her?

I adore her. I think most people think that she's nutty, but I love her confidence, her energy. She is such an individual, and what a voice! I saw her on 10/28/05 in New York. She was singing Hindu chants at a goth rock festival. The music wasn't in the tradition of Nina Hagen Band or NUNSEXMONKROCK, but I had a fantastic time. She touched my hand and I nearly swooned. :D


Sadly, I've never seen Siouxie or The Slits. And I have always found X-Ray Spex kind of annoying.

I saw the Slits in October '06 in Boston. I was approximately four feet from Ari Up and within an arm's reach from Tessa Pollitt. It had been a good 30 years since their heyday but they are both beautiful.


You have good taste, pirate ! :)

Siouxsie is awesome !

Orginally punk-look meant: Wear anything you like and don't
give a fuck about whether others like it or not.

But it's probably true - although there is no dress code in
punk there still is a certain style associated with punk
nowadays.

Luckily its just the right style for me ! :)

I like to offend people !

Hmmm...most of my attire comes from thrift stores, or stuff I design myself. I don't wear safety pins, or torn up plaid skirts, or crayola hair dye, or leather...I don't really go for any "look." I think my style could most accurately be described as "commie hipster."

And I don't see why people would be offended by a style of dress, anyway.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Lots of good posts, people!

There is a bunch of posts about the punk "fashion" though.
I never thought punk was a fashion. I didn't think it was a lifestyle, either.

It was all about the music.
If you want to associate fashion or life choices with punk, go ahead.

But when I was an active punk rocker we (my buddies) didn't care what you wore, what you smoked, IF you smoked, or any of that crap. It was a bunch of us saying "Hey, that bloke who works at the petrol station is playing with his band down the road, let's go listen and play some darts."

As fashion went, I looked more like a head-banger, new wave, grunge, ska, and now somewhat "strait" or "vanilla" (I can't show off my tattoos or grow spikes/mohawk because of my job).

It wasn't until I moved to the states that I was getting crap about not looking "punk". If you ask me, the punks at that time in the states looked like glitter-goths.
Hell, some of them were fucking skinheads! I made a point of playing them songs like "The KKK took my Baby Away" (Ramones, of course) and "Safety Dance" by Men w/o Hats (new wave, but entirely appropriate.)

About this time, I heard that a bud of mine across the pond OD-ed, and soon after the Ramones quit (I knew this guy who saw their very last show in Texas; he recorded a couple songs on a cassette for me).

It was this time that the drugs, poseurs, and bullshit got to me. I haven't liked a mainstream punk band since the Ramones, and I just drifted out of it.

The only time I see a punk show anymore is when somebody says "Hey, that guy who works at the gas station is playing with his band down the road. Let's go listen and have some beers."

Otherwise, except when I feel nostalgic, it's just not fun anymore.

[pave_the_planet]

Bands I like are Crass, Conflict, Aus Rotten, Behind Enemy Lines, GBH, The Exploited, Garmonbozia, The Casualties, Leftover Crack, The Restarts, Discharge etc
you are hot



i listen to a lot of crust/anarcho/grindcore, and Oi!

lately ive been straying away from punk. its quite boring and immature. bunch of dumb losers who dont realize they are the system's tools. lolz



btw...The Exploited are absolute shit. fuckin chaos punks...

[TheAnarchyKid]

fuck the casualties fucking sell outs.

[Kropotesta]

fuck the casualties fucking sell outs.
Completely relevant. :rolleyes:

[TheAnarchyKid]

man fuck all this punk is this punk is that punk isn’t wearing leather jackets or spikes it saying you know what fuck society and fuck you punk will never die as long as there is one individual left on this fucking planet who makes their own choices
:sleep:

[TheAnarchyKid]

sorry reading through the forum and saw a pic of them.

[Grunt]

Hmmm...most of my attire comes from thrift stores, or stuff I design myself. I don't wear safety pins, or torn up plaid skirts, or crayola hair dye, or leather...I don't really go for any "look." I think my style could most accurately be described as "commie hipster."
Cool ! :cool:



And I don't see why people would be offended by a style of dress, anyway.
Believe me: They are !! :)

[Kropotesta]

Believe me: They are !! :)
How are they?

[Grunt]

I never thought punk was a fashion. I didn't think it was a lifestyle, either.

Fashion? No. Lifestyle? Absolutely! :)

[Kropotesta]

man fuck all this punk is this punk is that punk isn’t wearing leather jackets or spikes it saying you know what fuck society and fuck you punk will never die as long as there is one individual left on this fucking planet who makes their own choices
:sleep:
You don't see a random person and think "oh they're punk", you'd only do that if they are dressed in punkish sort of way. There's no "acting punk" because if that was so, the majority of punks wouldn't be people who listen/dress punk.
Also punk origionally ment someone who's bum raped in prison, so....

[Kropotesta]

Fashion? No. Lifestyle? Absolutely! :)
what is this lifestyle?

[TheAnarchyKid]

You don't see a random person and think "oh they're punk", you'd only do that if they are dressed in punkish sort of way. There's no "acting punk" because if that was so, the majority of punks wouldn't be people who listen/dress punk.
Also punk origionally ment someone who's bum raped in prison, so....
Yeah but did you ever notice people who chose to say fuck society and its norms generaly dress and act kinda punkish

[Kropotesta]

Yeah but did you ever notice people who chose to say fuck society and its norms generaly dress and act kinda punkish
We both know is not true. I highly doubt must of the people on this forum dress 'punkish' and for the punks that do say 'fuck society', from experience, most just say it as a stereotupe/don't know what they're on about.

[Grunt]

what is this lifestyle?
I could answer in a 'punkish' way, (like: Punk is Punk Rock,
Beer, Sex and Violence...) but let me just say it in other
words: This lifestyle is being yourself, offending as many
people as possible and having fun while doing it ! :D

[Grunt]

How are they?
They hate me when they see me - you can tell by the
looks they give you. Or they are afraid....


....and they have every reason to be ! :D

[Kropotesta]

I could answer in a 'punkish' way, (like: Punk is Punk Rock,
Beer, Sex and Violence...) but let me just say it in other
words: This lifestyle is being yourself, offending as many
people as possible and having fun while doing it ! :D
why is it good to offend someone for no reason? Isn't that about childish?
No punk is not beer, sex and violence, espcially since a fair few punks are straight edge.

[Grunt]

...and for the punks that do say 'fuck society', from experience, most just say it as a stereotupe/don't know what they're on about.
This is true for 'posers' and very young punx and maybe for punx
who are only into it because of the fun and the violence (again:
mostly the very young punx).

But I wouldn't agree that this is true regarding the majority of
punx. :D

[Grunt]

why is it good to offend someone for no reason? Isn't that about childish?
No, not childish. If you offend someone there might be hope that
it perhaps makes this person think. Think about how conformed
he/she is, and why.



No punk is not beer, sex and violence, espcially since a fair few punks are straight edge.
What kind of 'punx' are those ?? 'Straight edge' ?? WTF ?

OK - just checked the expression 'straight edge' on UD again -
to be sure.

Yeah, yeah -maybe there are punx who don't drink, don't smoke,
living in celibacy (or almost).

You know what ? Boooooooooring ! :D

[Kropotesta]

No, not childish. If you offend someone there might be hope that
it perhaps makes this person think. Think about how conformed
he/she is, and why.
Becasue they don't have a mohican? Offending people is not constructive.

[Grunt]

Becasue they don't have a mohican?
Ha, ha :lol: , Yes ! Amongst other things...
No - the haircut isn't that important of course.
Other things are more important.



Offending people is not constructive.
Sorry, I disagree. It can be very constructive - plus:

It's FUN ! :D

[Grunt]

man fuck all this punk is this punk is that punk isn’t wearing leather jackets or spikes it saying you know what fuck society and fuck you punk will never die as long as there is one individual left on this fucking planet who makes their own choices
:sleep:
I totally agree ! :D

[communard resolution]

OK, I feel the punks on here are getting a bit too complacent. Time to agitate them a little.


man fuck all this punk is this punk is that punk isn’t wearing leather jackets or spikes it saying you know what fuck society and fuck you punk will never die as long as there is one individual left on this fucking planet who makes their own choices
:sleep:

Sid Vicious compressed all of this into one sentence: "I met the man in the street and he was a ****". And you know what? That's the basic philosophy of LIBERAL CAPITALISM.

What does the bourgeois capitalist think? He thinks "fuck society! I do what I want to do, even if that entails fucking everybody else over so I come out on top. Fuck everyone, it's all about me."

No feeeelings, no feeeelings, no feeeelings, for anybody else, except for myself, my beautiful self...

[Grunt]

OK, I feel the punks on here are getting a bit too complacent. Time to agitate them a little.
Complacent ? Ha, ha :lol: Your joking, aren't you Caligula ?
Your a punk yourself - remember ? :)




Sid Vicious compressed all of this into one sentence: "I met the man in the street and he was a ****". And you know what? That's the basic philosophy of LIBERAL CAPITALISM.
Obviously I don't agree with that conclusion.
Sid a liberal capitalist ? No way.

He wasn't a saint either, nor a great political thinker. He contributed
one thing, and one thing only to the movement: Attitude.

If you are on the lookout for quotes from Punk-legends - I recommend
Jon Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten).




What does the bourgeois capitalist think? He thinks "fuck society! I do what I want to do, even if that entails fucking everybody else over so I come out on top. Fuck everyone, it's all about me."

No feeeelings, no feeeelings, no feeeelings, for anybody else, except for myself, my beautiful self...
Not bad, Caligula, not bad at all. Nice shot !

Ever occured to you that the 'except for myself, my beautiful self...'
part was sarcastic/ironic - thus expressing exactly the antitheses
to what you are implying ??? :)

Good shot though !

[communard resolution]

Your a punk yourself - remember ? :)

Yeah, but I'm too punk to be a punk, remember? Oh fuck it, I shouldn't have given my game away.


Obviously I don't agree with that conclusion.
Sid a liberal capitalist ? No way.

He wasn't, but his 'attitude' expressed the sentiments of liberal capitalism.


He wasn't a saint either, nor a great political thinker.

Not exactly. :laugh:

Hey, did you read up on young Jo Stalin? What did you think, punk or not?

[Grunt]

Yeah, but I'm too punk to be a punk, remember? Oh fuck it, I shouldn't have given my game away.
You haven't. I figured that out by your replies - I don't care how
you dress and whether you have a mohawk -

You are a Punk ! 100% proof ! :D




He wasn't, but his 'attitude' expressed the sentiments of liberal capitalism.

Maybe, maybe not. Sid really isn't a very good source. I don't believe
he ever gave politics a thought.

He said in an interview (after the Pistols broke up): "In the end I
was the only one who had any anarchy left".

But for him anarchy was an attitude, violence, having fun, at best
- and in the end when there was only one thing left - it wasn't
anarchy...

...it was Heroin.




Hey, did you read up on young Jo Stalin? What did you think, punk or not?
Sure did ! I always keep my promises.

Looks to me that the young Joe was a real 'hellraiser' !! :D
Cool !
So I pretend for a moment to forget everything that came later -
and admit: Joe Stalin was a genuine Punk in his youth.

[communard resolution]

Looks to me that the young Joe was a real 'hellraiser' !! :D
Cool !
So I pretend for a moment to forget everything that came later -
and admit: Joe Stalin was a genuine Punk in his youth.Yeah, but a hellraiser with a cause, which makes it so much better in my opinion. If you will, he had both the Clash punk component (righteousness, political ideals) as well as the Sex Pistols punk one (being a rebel & outlaw).

[Grunt]

Yeah, but a hellraiser with a cause, which makes it so much better in my opinion. If you will, he had both the Clash punk component (righteousness, political ideals) as well as the Sex Pistols punk one (being a rebel & outlaw).
You know what ? I agree ! (Holy crap - whats happening to me...:lol: )

Thats what I am after: Rebellion, offending people, being an outlaw,
having fun PLUS political ideals. :)

Thats why I joined RevLeft (after having been rejected and mocked
at SE...) !

----

...don't know about 'righteousness' though - the word has so
many (slightly) different meanings and when I hear it - I always
hear: (Self-)Righteousness. Juggling with three languages
(two of them native) doesn't make it easier.

'Righteousness' has a touch of being square, conform etc.
to me.

Now I know that Joe wasn't square and conform and all that -
don't misunderstand me - but still:

A 'righteous' Punk ? Sounds strange. But probably only to me -
because of the language thing...

[communard resolution]

'Righteous' can also mean just, idealistic, holding strong principles. That's what I meant.

[Grunt]

'Righteous' can also mean just, idealistic, holding strong principles. That's what I meant.
Yes, yes - of course, now I get it !! :thumbup:


That's the meaning I like ! Very much indeed !
Thanks for clearing that up. Idealistic and strong
principles. Thats very good ! :)

(I saved that definition in a special file called
'Commie Definitions' - so I won't forget...:) )

Thanks Caligula !

Now I will resume the movie, my g/f is nagging....:lol:

[Post-Something]

You know, Fugazi were way more revolutionary than the sex pistols, the clash or anyone else for that matter. Look em up, never sold out.

Here's from wiki:


"On their first tours, Fugazi worked out their DIY aesthetic by trial and error. Their decisions were partly motivated by pragmatic considerations that were essentially a punk rock version of simple living (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living): for example, selling merchandise on tour would require a full-time merchandise salesperson who would require lodging, food, and other costs, so Fugazi decided to simplify their touring by not selling merchandise. They were also motivated by moral or ethical considerations: for example, Fugazi's members regarded pricey admission for rock concerts as tantamount to price gouging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging) a performer's most loyal fans. Their inexpensive target goal of $5 admission was spawned during a conversation on an early tour when the band's members were debating the lowest profitable admission price. At some venues, particularly on the east and west coasts of the U.S., Fugazi was unable to get ticket prices below about $10. However, they never saw the $5 rule as inviolable, instead aiming to charge a price that was both affordable and profitable. Unlike some similar, small-scale independent rock contemporaries, Fugazi's performances and tours were nearly always profitable, due to their low business overhead costs, and MacKaye's keen sense of audience response in given regions."
Fugazi's early tours earned them a strong word-of-mouth reputation, both for their powerful performances, and for their eagerness to play in unusual venues. They sought out alternatives to traditional rock clubs partly to relieve the boredom of touring, but also hoping to show fans that there are other options to traditional ways of doing things. As Picciotto said, "You find the Elks Lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_and_Protective_Order_of_Elks), you find the guy who's got a space in the back of his pizzeria, you find the guy who has a gallery. Kids will do that stuff because they want to make stuff happen."[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugazi#cite_note-12)
The group (MacKaye in particular) also made a point of discouraging violent, unwanted slam dancing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dancing) and fistfights, which they saw as relics of the late 1970s/early 1980s hardcore punk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk) era. Azerrad quotes Mackaye, "See, [slam dancers] have one form of communication: violence ... So to disorient them, you don't give them violence. I'd say, 'Excuse me, sir...'- I mean, it freaks them out -'Excuse me, sir, would you please cut that crap out?'"[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugazi#cite_note-13) (emphasis in original) Azerrad writes, "[Mackaye's] admonitions seemed preachy to some, but most were deeply grateful. And by and large, people would obey - it wasn't cool to disrespect Ian MacKaye."[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugazi#cite_note-14) Occasionally, Fugazi would escort an unrepentant slam-dancer from the concert, and give them an envelope containing a $5 refund (they kept a stock of such envelopes in their tour van for these occasions)."

[communard resolution]

I respect any idealistic band, but Fugazi don't do it for me personally. Something about them strikes me as puritan in a very traditionally American way.

[Grunt]

You know, Fugazi were way more revolutionary than the sex pistols, the clash or anyone else for that matter. Look em up, never sold out.
Have heard of them, but never listened to their music.

Wiki:


Fugazi incorporated funk and reggae beats, irregular stop-start song structures, and heavy riffs inspired by bands such as Led Zeppelin and Queen, bands that the punk community largely disdained.
Aha ! No hardcore punk. No wonder I never got to know them...
Inspired by Queen and Led ? WTF ?



made a point of discouraging violent, unwanted slam dancing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dancing) and fistfights, which they saw as relics of the late 1970s/early 1980s hardcore punk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk) era.
Discouraged Pogo and Moshing and the occasional fight ? :confused:

Relics of the hardcore-era ? WTF ? There are still good honest
hardcore punk-bands out there !

Honestly - and no offense intended - I have never listened to them -
so I am in no position to judge, but from what I read here they sound
a bit 'arty-farty' to me. Sorry. Formed late - and it all sounds to me
like they look down on ordinary punk grunts who like a little
action.

It actually happened that 'The Exploited' on a gig stopped
playing and joined a fight ! At one gig Wattie got part of his
tongue bitten off by a fan - LOL :lol:

Whats wrong with Pogo ? (The term 'slam dancing' is a new
invention)

Intellectualizing Punk (the music), coming that late (1986/87) -
I don't know....

If I want 'Avant Garde' there still are 'The Residents' who are Kult
with a big 'K', and other bands - but they don't call themselves
punx.

---

And Fugazi's albums are very expensive, I just checked. So I doubt
I will ever buy one.


Now, so that their is no misunderstanding:

1. I never listened to their music, so I might be wrong

2. There are many post-punk, new wave bands that I like.
But they are not calling themselves punx. And thats OK.

Take 'The Cure' for exampel: A band that was (and still is)
awesome.

Or 'Siouxsie' ! Began Punk and developed into a unique
style !

Or 'X-Japan' (Japanese speed metal) who only a month
ago at the gread hide-memorial summit paid tribute to
the Pistols by playing 'Anarchy in the UK' and 'God save
the Queen'.

[Grunt]

Comrades !

It just occured to me that this thread actually
doesn't really belong here in the 'Music'-Forum.

Yes, yes - we talked about music too, but also
about what Punk is and stuff. And Punk isn't just
music.

I started it and created it here - but I am a newbie
and didn't know better.

Whom do I have to contact to ask for a transfer to
a forum that might be more appropriate ?

[communard resolution]

Aha ! No hardcore punk. No wonder I never got to know them...
Inspired by Queen and Led ? WTF ?

I think you best forget the word 'punk' once and for all. It's a buzzword, nothing more. They needed to revitalize the music industry in the mid 70s, so they put a few bands into one bag and tagged it 'punk'. Like they say on amazon, "customers who bought this product also bought that one". This way, they shifted a lot of records, music magazines, and bondage trousers.

The really interesting characters coming out of that scene never thought of themselves as punks, including John Lydon.

Like I said, I enjoyed my times in the punk scene up to a point. Good to hear you're enjoying yourself too. Just don't take the whole thing so goddamn seriously, cause there really isn't that much to it. It's not a religion to live your life by.

[Post-Something]

Aha ! No hardcore punk. No wonder I never got to know them...
Inspired by Queen and Led ? WTF ?


Urm...yes, very much so. They were there with bad brains, and Black Flag. In fact, the singer of Fugazi, Ian Mackaye, was in Minor Threat and teen idles. Plus, Ian is best friends with Henry Rollins.

tldr; they INVENTED hardcore practically.

[Grunt]

The really interesting characters coming out of that scene never thought of themselves as punks, including John Lydon.

Please watch this short interview with him from
1977 -(only 1.5 minutes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJm97o-4qYI




Good to hear you're enjoying yourself too. Just don't take
the whole thing so goddamn seriously,
Don't worry - I don't take it boring seriously. Fun is
an important part.



...cause there really isn't that much to it.
Punk changed a lot, despite the shit-system
absorbing most of the original potential very
early and quick.

IMO there still is potential. And (as I learned today)
combined with a good ideology and 'righteousness'
the 'movement' can still play its part in helping to
change things or give at least a little spark. :D

[communard resolution]

Ian Mackaye, was in Minor Threat and teen idles.

Did you see the docu Another State Of Mind that has Minor Threat, Social Distortion and Youth Brigade going on tour together? It's good.

[The Love Pirate]

I could answer in a 'punkish' way, (like: Punk is Punk Rock,
Beer, Sex and Violence...) but let me just say it in other
words: This lifestyle is being yourself, offending as many
people as possible and having fun while doing it ! :D

Meh...I'm not much into beer, violence, or offending people just for the sake of doing it. It seems like most of the scenesters are, though. Maybe I'm just weird.

I like the attitudes of the Fugazi boys, but their music just isn't my thing.

But there's nothing wrong with liking other types of music.

[communard resolution]

My fave Swedish punk band are Asta Kask, an 80s group. They looked a bit like a hardcore take on Duran Duran. Pretty fast but melodic stuff.

[Grunt]

They looked a bit like a hardcore take on
Duran Duran. Pretty fast but melodic stuff.
Thats the stuff I like. Hardcore take on Duran Duran - :)
Sounds interesting. Will check them out.

The Ramones were always melodic too.

[Pirate Utopian]

I dont know if I'm "genuine" but I dig punk.

I love the 70s punk scene, especially The Ramones, Sex Pistols and The Clash.
I dig the British punk from then, but perfer the New York stuff like The Dead Boys (Sonic Reducer is a great song).

I also dig some of the 80s stuff like Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains and The Gun Club.
I cant say I cant think of any 90s/00s punkbands I'm into.

I like some of the early post-punk and new wave (bands like PiL, Stranglers and Elvis Costello).
Proto-punk is awesome (Patti Smith, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed), I love garage rock and I like alot of 70s glam rock.

Oi! is good too, although I probably only know the main artists of it.

[Grunt]

I dont know if I'm "genuine" but I dig punk.

You sound genuine to me, alright ! :)



I love the 70s punk scene, especially The Ramones, Sex Pistols and The Clash.
I dig the British punk from then, but perfer the New York stuff like The Dead Boys (Sonic Reducer is a great song).
We are in total agreement. 'Sonic Reducer' is one of the greatest
punk songs ever !



I cant say I cant think of any 90s/00s punkbands I'm into.
Right: 1976-1988 was the time

But one thing I find amazing: UK-Subs, Cockney Rejects, Exploited and
many others are still touring and have been true to the spirit and the
music for almost 3 decades !



I like some of the early post-punk and new wave (bands like PiL, Stranglers and Elvis Costello).
PiL released 4 truely groundbreaking and awesome records - after
that: Crap.
Still: PiL's "Religion" is one of the greatest songs ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO6uh2o0GOQ



Proto-punk is awesome (Patti Smith, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed)
Totally ! And don't forget 'Velvet Underground' :)



...and I like alot of 70s glam rock.
I like some songs by 'The Sweet' (...but don't tell anybody. :) )



Oi! is good too, although I probably only know the main artists of it.
Yepp ! Oi!-Punk was raw and honest. And the idea to unite
Punks and Skins(who weren't right wing at all in the beginning)
was great. Too bad it didn't work out...:(

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Comrades !

It just occured to me that this thread actually
doesn't really belong here in the 'Music'-Forum.

Yes, yes - we talked about music too, but also
about what Punk is and stuff. And Punk isn't just
music.

I started it and created it here - but I am a newbie
and didn't know better.

Whom do I have to contact to ask for a transfer to
a forum that might be more appropriate ?
I'd start with the forum mod.
For music it's Led Zep.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=10457

Send him a pm explaining why you wanna move it and to where.

The alternative is to just start a new post in another forum (it would be a good idea to include links from one thread to another, too)

[communard resolution]

I love the 70s punk scene, especially The Ramones, Sex Pistols and The Clash.
I dig the British punk from then, but perfer the New York stuff like The Dead Boys (Sonic Reducer is a great song).
Ditto. The NY bands are my favourite bands: Heartbreakers, Ramones, NY Dolls, Richard Hell, Television, The Dictators, Suicide, Dead Boys, early Cramps, Blondie... I like how all these bands had their own individual sound, image, and outlook.

I like most other punk styles too -except post Green Day college punk/nu punk- but the NY bands are the best to my ears (and eyes).

When it comes to 80s hardcore punk, oi, and political punk, I think the focus is too UK-centric. I can think of 80s bands from France, Germany, and Russia that were much better musically and lyrically than your average UK 82 troupe.

There's some great early US hardcore mostly from CA, but I don't like the NYC skinhead hardcore variety much.

As for the 90s, Turbonegro are my favourite punk rock band. Also neo-garage stuff like The Dirtys, Oblivians, Makers.

[Kropotesta]

Oi! is shit. Slow, boring and usually nationalist bastards.
Also I ordered a N.W.A new era hat, am I still punx?

[Pirate Utopian]

I love The Dictators and Richard Hell.

The Dictators version of I Got You Babe is the best version by far.

Speaking of French punk by the way, I kinda like Metal Urbain, the few songs I heard are cool.

[communard resolution]

Oi! is shit. Slow, boring and usually nationalist bastards.

Yeah, but for some reason I really like some French oi. There was a French label called Chaos Records in the 80s who released compilations such as Chaos in France and Chaos in Europe. I like a lot of the bands on those. Some of them had names like Komintern Sect and Trotskids, so I suppose French oi had a leftist touch to it.



Also I ordered a N.W.A new era hat, am I still punx?


Well, I like Madonna. Am I still punk?

[communard resolution]

The Dictators version of I Got You Babe is the best version by far.
That entire Go Girl Crazy album is great.


Speaking of French punk by the way, I kinda like Metal Urbain, the few songs I heard are cool.

Yes, they're fantastic. Also Berurier Noir and Oberkampf.

[Kropotesta]

Yeah, but for some reason I really like some French oi. There was a French label called Chaos Records in the 80s who released compilations such as Chaos in France and Chaos in Europe. I like a lot of the bands on those. Some of them had names like Komintern Sect and Trotskids, so I suppose French oi had a leftist touch to it.
Could just the Oi! in the UK then.

[Cencus]

Could just the Oi! in the UK then.

More down to people's interpretation of what is Oi! than anything else.

Oi! started in the U.K. mainly as groups of football hooligans playing the music most suited to them, eg lots of chanty choruses and not much musical ability involved. Lyrics about their football team, beating up their rivals team, beating up police, getting get beat up by the police, their pride in their nation/class/football team, and going out on the piss at the weekend. The svengali behind the initial scene was Gary Bushel (go on google him) nuff said.

Oi! later became a term to describe any punk that wasn't overly commercial, but didn't fit into any of the other subgenres.

[Grunt]

Oi! is shit. Slow, boring and usually nationalist bastards.
I don't agree. Oi!-Punk was in the beginning either leftist or
apolitical.

• Not all Oi-Punx are nationalist (far from it)

• Not all Skins are nationalist, fascist or nazis.

[Grunt]

Oi! started in the U.K. mainly as groups of football hooligans playing the music most suited to them, eg lots of chanty choruses and not much musical ability involved. Lyrics about their football team, beating up their rivals team, beating up police, getting get beat up by the police, their pride in their nation/class/football team, and going out on the piss at the weekend. The svengali behind the initial scene was Gary Bushel (go on google him) nuff said.
True ! Whats wrong with that ?
(Except the 'pride in their nation'-stuff)

[Kropotesta]

More down to people's interpretation of what is Oi! than anything else.

Oi! started in the U.K. mainly as groups of football hooligans playing the music most suited to them, eg lots of chanty choruses and not much musical ability involved. Lyrics about their football team, beating up their rivals team, beating up police, getting get beat up by the police, their pride in their nation/class/football team, and going out on the piss at the weekend. The svengali behind the initial scene was Gary Bushel (go on google him) nuff said.

Oi! later became a term to describe any punk that wasn't overly commercial, but didn't fit into any of the other subgenres.
I know of Gary Bushell, he sang in the Gonads and put out those Oi! compilations.
But yeah bands like the Retailator, Scum and so on do unfortunatly make up what alot of Skins, that I've met, interpretations of Oi!, opposed to Toots and the Maytals and Synarip etc.

[Grunt]

These lists are from www.digitaldreamdoor.com (http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com). I do not totally
agree with them. Some bands are missing. Others are not that
great.
And some I never heard of.

A lot of Oi!-Punk Bands are missing like: 'The Oppressed',
'Cock Sparrer', Cockney Rejects', Angelic Upstairs' etc.


But for anybody who is trying to find a sort of a 'guideline' - I
believe the lists can be quite helpfull.


I posted them here - instead of just posting a link, because I hope
that in time this thread develops in some kind of chaotic, but good
Punk Rock - 'encyclopedia'. :D



100 essential punk artists



1. The Clash
2. MC5
3. The Ramones
4. The Sex Pistols
5. The Stooges
6. Dead Kennedys
7. Fugazi
8. Black Flag
9. The Misfits
10. Bad Brains
11. Minor Threat
12. Joy Division
13. The Buzzcocks
14. Husker Du
15. Bad Religion
16. Minutemen
17. The Damned
18. The Circle Jerks
19. X
20. Television
21. Stiff Little Fingers
22. Patti Smith
23. Green Day
24. Crass
25. Gang Of Four
26. Generation X
27. Operation Ivy
28. Rites of Spring
29. Adolescents
30. Social Distortion
31. Embrace
32. Richard Hell & the Voidoids
33. The Descendents
34. The Germs
35. The Jam
36. The Adicts
37. At The Drive In
38. Dead Boys
39. X-Ray Spex
40. NOFX
41. Wire
42. Rancid
43. Fear
44. Reagan Youth
45. The Exploited
46. Anti-Nowhere league
47. The Vandals
48. Subhumans
49. The Pogues
50. Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers
51. TSOL
52. Leftover Crack
53. Gorilla Biscuits
54. GBH
55. Anti Flag
56. Sunny Day Real Estate
57. Pennywise
58. Sham 69
59. Agent Orange
60. Conflict
61. Dead Milkmen
62. Discharge
63. 7 Seconds
64. Suicidal Tendencies
65. Against Me!
66. Flogging Molly
67. Chocking Victim
68. Jawbraker
69. Propaghandi
70. Dropkick Murpheys
71. Catch 22
72. U.K. Subs
73. D.O.A.
74. The Vibrators
75. The Unseen
76. Dag Nasty
77. Alkaline Trio
78. Screeching Weasels
79. A.F.I.
80. Guttermouth
81. Suicide Machines
82. Reel Big Fish
83. Strike Anywhere
84. Streetlight Manifesto
85. Refused
86. Rise Against
87. Paint it Black
88. Bouncing Souls
89. Screamers
90. Agnostic Front
91. Kid Dynamite
92. Less Than Jake
93. D.R.I.
94. Link 80
95. Millencolin
96. 999
97. Mustard Plug
98. Bigwig
99. Dance Hall Crashers
100. Tiger Army




25 essential post-punk artists



1. Joy Division
2. The Fall
3. The Cure
4. Gang of Four
5. Wire
6. Talking Heads
7. Siouxsie and the Banshees
8. Pere Ubu
9. Bauhaus
10. Echo & The Bunnymen
11. Mission of Burma
12. New Order
13. Public Image Ltd
14. The Feelies
15. Adam and the Ants
16. U2
17. The Sound
18. Devo
19. Suicide
20. The B-52's
21. The Soft Boys
22. Sisters of Mercy
23. Depeche Mode
24. The Mekons
25. The Birthday Party



25 essential hardcore-punk artists



1. Dead Kennedys
2. Bad Brains
3. Black Flag
4. Minor Threat
5. The Misfits
6. Fugazi
7. Bad Religion
8. The Minutemen
9. Circle Jerks
10. Husker Du
11. Crass
12. X
13. Rites of Spring
14. The Adolescents
15. Reagan Youth
16. Gorilla Biscuits
17. D.O.A.
18. TSOL
19. The Descendents
20. Embrace
21. Discharge
22. Agent Orange
23. Fear
24. At the Drive In
25. Cro-mags

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Oh, man. . .how could I forget about (#22) Patti Smith?
I always considered (#42) Rancid more ska then punk, but they're good.

I'm gonna dust off the phonograph and whip out some records right now!

[redSHARP]

decent list, especially the hardcore list. however, being a skin (punks & skins unite again!), i got to favor OI. so i would put agnostic front on the list for hardcore. and for the 100 essential punk list i have to say i am disappointed. 3rd wave ska is not punk. dont get me wrong i enjoy catch 22 (permanent revolution was great, one of the few albums about trotsky), but come on! Less than Jake? that list is missing the business and the angelic upstarts.


FYI the lead singer of the exploited has been known to have rubbed elbows with some of the NF and BNP scum. also i am pleased to notice screwdriver is not on the lists; i am very happy about that. There is NO nazi in punk!

[Bilan]

Dead Kennedys pwn.
I used to be a punk.
That's all I can be bothered writing.

[communard resolution]

I know of Gary Bushell, he sang in the Gonads and put out those Oi! compilations.
But yeah bands like the Retailator, Scum and so on do unfortunatly make up what alot of Skins, that I've met, interpretations of Oi!, opposed to Toots and the Maytals and Synarip etc.

I think most Oi is just boringly conservative. Some of it, however, is leftist.

Much like the general population.

[Grunt]

...however, being a skin (punks & skins unite again!), i got to favor
OI.
Your a skin, comrade ? Awesome !! :D
Punks and Skins UNITE !!

Yeah - as I said: Great Oi! /Skin bands are missing like
'The Oppressed' (=awesome), 'Cock Sparrer',
'Cockney Rejects' etc.




...that list is missing the business and the angelic upstarts.
True !!



FYI the lead singer of the exploited has been known to have rubbed elbows with some of the NF and BNP scum.
Wattie ?? Really ?? I am shell-shocked ! Rubbing elbows ?
Oh man, oh man - this can't be happening... :(

His lyrics never indicated the least bit of it.

I must check this out...



...also i am pleased to notice screwdriver is not on the lists; i
am very happy about that. There is NO nazi in punk!
Yeah - screwdriver is pure Nazi-shite !

Nazi-Punks FUCK OFF (...and die !) !

[Grunt]

I think most Oi is just boringly conservative. Some of it, however, is leftist.
Yeah - some of it is leftists, some of it is only about football and
street fighting (Cockney Rejects).
Unfortuantely some of it really is Nazi shite. And yeah: Some of it
is plain unpolitical.

But there have been some great bands - and songs.

'Oi! Oi! Oi!', 'Bad Man', 'Joe Hawkings' and 'We're coming back'
have forever a place in my heart ! :)

[Kropotesta]

Wattie ?? Really ?? I am shell-shocked ! Rubbing elbows ?
Oh man, oh man - this can't be happening... :(

I heard that he was a nazi skin before becoming a punk, he has also got a swastika tattoo aswell, but he claims it was to 'offend', a pretty bad reason for getting a tattoo, espically one like that.

[communard resolution]

I heard that he was a nazi skin before becoming a punk, he has also got a swastika tattoo aswell, but he claims it was to 'offend', a pretty bad reason for getting a tattoo, espically one like that.

There have been a lot of debates on Wattie's rightwing exploits elsewhere, and while I'm no authority on him or The Exploited (never liked them), I can try and reiterate what I remember.

-In a '78 or '79 Sounds article on the punk scene in Scotland, they asked Wattie why he was wearing swastika badges, and he replied "I'm not a nazi, I only wear the swastika because it's a symbol of punk" :laugh:

-apparently he said at some point in the 80s that he hates all immigrants who come to Scotland, especially Pakistanis. This is just a rumour, though.

-He admitted in an interview with a punk zine that he was pals with Ian Stuart of Skrewdriver. He said: "I met Ian in a pub in London, he gave me his 7' single 'Smash The IRA'. I thought that was alright cos I hated terrorism too. I had no idea he was a nazi." Wattie failed to mention that the flipside of the Skrewdriver single in question contained the song 'White Power'.

-when living in London, Wattie also made friends with a woman out of Crass (I forget which one). When she took him out to see a punk gig at an anarchist community centre, Wattie found himself cornered by a large group of angry anarchists interrogating him about his political beliefs. After a while, they concluded he was not very clued up about politics, but not a Nazi. So they let him go.

-In another interview, Wattie made remarks about NF types showing up at Exploited shows and how he didn't want them there as they intimidated everybody else and wrecked every gig.

My impression is that Wattie is simply not the brightest guy in the world and that he used to hang out with all kinds of people as long as they were punks or skinheads. As for his racist remarks (assuming he really made them), I think hating Pakistanis was fairly typical in British working class communities in the 70s and 80s, and Wattie simply parroted those sentiments. You also have to take into account that the man has been doing speed on a daily basis ever since the late 70s, so I presume there isn't much left of the little brain he once had.

I imagine he's a bit of an idiot, but not really a nazi.

[Grunt]

I heard that he was a nazi skin before becoming a punk, he has also got a swastika tattoo aswell, but he claims it was to 'offend', a pretty bad reason for getting a tattoo, espically one like that.
Haven't heard about that. Anyway later on - The Exploited became
one of the most poltically outspoken Punk bands:
Attacking Thatcher, Attacking the US, Attacking nationalism.

---

The swastika: Well Sid Vicious wore constantly the swastika
T-Shirt. Siouxsie Sioux wore in her early days a swastika arm band
(or whatever its called). Now Sid wasn't a Nazi, much less
Siouxsie.

This (once again) illustrates the point that I was trying to make
earlier: Punk is (amongst other things) about offending people by
any means necessary. :D

Now: Wattie's tat. Maybe he really was in the beginning a little
close to the Nazi-Punk scene. Maybe.

I agree: A swastika tat only to offend - that doesn' sound 100%
right to me neither. :(

[Grunt]

Excellent research, Caligula ! :)


Yepp - in the early days the swastika was worn by many punx -
either without thinking or copied/emulated or to offend.



My impression is that Wattie is simply not the brightest guy in the world and that he used to hang out with all kinds of people as long as they were punks or skinheads.
I LOVE 'The Exploited' and dig Wattie. But you are right - he is not the
brightest star in the sky - LOL :laugh:




You also have to take into account that the man has been doing speed on a daily basis ever since the late 70s, so I presume there isn't much left of the little brain he once had.

I imagine he's a bit of an idiot, but not really a nazi.
Yepp - you may be right. 'Idiot' is a bit strong - but lets not split
hairs. Wattie and The Exploied were never known for their subtleness
or intellect or great and deep lyrics...:lol:

As to the music: Well - before they went into trash-metal, the music
was raw, unsophisticated, fast and perfect for Pogo ! :D

[Kropotesta]

Haven't heard about that. Anyway later on - The Exploited became
one of the most poltically outspoken Punk bands:

Now that isn't true. The Exploited are particualry mellow on politics compared to loadsa punk bands.

[Invader Zim]

I used to listen to a fair bit of punk, but in reality most punk is a a bit bland. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to '77 classic stuff; but in general I grew bored of it.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Now I want a cupcake.

[Grunt]

Now that isn't true. The Exploited are particualry mellow on politics compared to loadsa punk bands.
Particularly mellow ? Compared to whom ?

To these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarcho-punk_bands ??

Problem with all/most of these is that they didn't go the distance,
and/or had no impact of any significance.

'The Exploited' are still touring to this very day and they had
and still have an impact.

[Grunt]

I used to listen to a fair bit of punk, but in reality most punk is a a bit bland. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to '77 classic stuff; but in general I grew bored of it.
I know what you mean. I don't listen to hardcore punk all the time
either. There are a lot of good indie-bands out there, and there
is J-Punk and J-Rock. :D

Being a punk doesn't mean that one is only allowed to listen to
'certified' hardcore punk !!!:)

[Grunt]

I posted this already in another thread - but I thought it would
be good to have it in the 'Punk'-thread as well.

For all those who are interested in J-Punk, J-SpeedMetal and
Visual Kei !

Knock yourself out ! :)

__________________________________________________ __


J-Hardcore Punk and J-Trash metal:


• Yellow Machinegun
• Bomb Factory
• Disclose
• ZI:KILL
• GISM
• Lost Eden
• Gauze
• S.O.B.
• Vivisick
• The Stalin



J-Speedmetal, J-Metal, Visual Kei, J-Indie, J-'Punk':


• BALZAC
• Dir en grey (later Diru)
• Janne da Arc
• Acid Black Cherry
• Zilch (hide formed this band)
• LOUDNESS
• Scar
• The GazettE
• Amaterasu
• Vidoll
• La:Sadies


• X-Japan
• Luna Sea
• Yoshikis solo work
• Toshi's solo work
• hide's solo work
• Sugizo's solo work

__________________________________________________ __

My favourite Japanese band forever:


http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/X%20and%20Hide/thx-japan21.gif


Wanna taste ? OK, but remember: Its not Punk.


X:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj_E3BTL1AA


Kurenai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUsAmb15njo


Silent Jealousy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iH9bxgsyiI


Without You 2008 (memorial for hide):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBbayi6A6nM



http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/X%20and%20Hide/10187013.gif

R.I.P. hide-sama

Love you forever, man !

[Kropotesta]

Particularly mellow ? Compared to whom ?

To these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarcho-punk_bands ??

Problem with all/most of these is that they didn't go the distance,
and/or had no impact of any significance.

'The Exploited' are still touring to this very day and they had
and still have an impact.
Yes, compared to many of those. Thing is alot of them went/go a damn cite further than the exploited have, do you even know what the exploiteds politics are?
I know the exploited are still touring, in fact i saw them two years ago at Wasted festival. GBH are still touring, but this doesn't mean they've had an impact on politics. Conflict, now they're an active political punk band, and yes they're still going.
Also, to any punk actually into politics, the exploited, even in their heyday, were mocked for their 'cartoon punk' image.

[Grunt]

Relax, comrade. I am well aware that you know 100000 times more
about politics than I do !

... do you even know what the exploiteds politics are?
Well: Anti-Imperialism, Anti-US, Anti-Iraque war (of course) and maybe
still 'Anarchy' - but how deeply they have thought everything through -
I don't know - and I don't care.

To me they are a great band - good attitude and in 'their heyday, as
you phrase it, they were pretty wild on- and off-stage, fights and
all sort of fun-stuff !! :D



Also, to any punk actually into politics, the exploited, even in their heyday, were mocked for their 'cartoon punk' image.
I am not (yet) a Punk into politics ! I am a Punk beginning to learn
about politics !

Yes - I know that they were mocked, for being posers and shit.
Just listen to their first 3 or 4 albums and you'll see that they
are genuine ! :D

I am proud to be an 'Exploited'-fan !


http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Punk/ExploitedSkullpicture.gif

[communard resolution]

Also, to any punk actually into politics, the exploited, even in their heyday, were mocked for their 'cartoon punk' image.They were, also by not-so-political punks though.

"Exploited barmy army"... "Sex and violence"... oh dear. The Spinal Tap of punk.

[communard resolution]

I know what you mean. I don't listen to hardcore punk all the time
either. There are a lot of good indie-bands out there, and there
is J-Punk and J-Rock. :D

Being a punk doesn't mean that one is only allowed to listen to
'certified' hardcore punk !!!:)

I actually think you've got quite a broad taste for a hardcore punk, what with all the J-Rock bands you mentioned that I never heard of... I can even forgive you The Exploited.

[Grunt]

"Exploited barmy army"... "Sex and violence"... oh dear. The Manowar of punk.
Ha, ha - well maybe, maybe not. I like 'Exploited Barmy Army' and
'Sex and Violence' is a classic, nobody has ever beaten ! :D

3 words lyrics ! Cool ! :D

[communard resolution]

Ha, ha - well maybe, maybe not

I've just changed it to Spinal Tap of punk, I think that's more suitable.

'
Sex and Violence' is a classic, nobody has ever beaten ! :D

Give me a guitar and I'll beat it within 2 minutes.

[communard resolution]

3 words lyrics ! Cool ! :D[/QUOTE]

Ramones had smarter 3 word lyrics.

[Grunt]

I actually think you've got quite a broad taste for a hardcore punk, what with all the J-Rock bands you mentioned that I never heard of... I can even forgive you The Exploited.
Thanks ! :) And yes I have a broad taste - and now and then I am
getting mocked by 'the crew' !

Especially when they 'catch me' listening to stuff like 'Without You'
which is a memorial song for hide and of course NOT punk - its ballad.

But whoever from the 'crew' says something contemptuous about
the late great hide-sama or X-Japan can count on a pretty
good confrontation and/or a good fight - ha, ha !

Everybody knows why I dyed my mohawk pink anyway:
To honour hide-sama, aka 'The Pink Spider' :D

So what if that isn't Punk or some ****s *****ing about
that one should only listen to certain Punk Bands and
never something else ??

Thats excactly what is the greatest enemy of Punk:
(enforced) conformity !!!

P.S.: We talked about that before, if I remember correctly...:)

[Grunt]

Give me a guitar and I'll beat it within 2 minutes.
With all due respect, most honoured comrade: You won't.

Its impossible. 'Sex and Violence' is so stupid that it comes
out on the other side again - like through a black hole -
and....Voilà ! An immortal classic for all eternity.

The only thing I would change in those lyrics is:
Instead of 'Sex and Violence' --> 'Sex, Beer and Violence'.

Thats the quintessence of Punk - have no illusions !!! :D
(I am only half-kidding !)

[Grunt]

Ramones had smarter 3 word lyrics.
Help me remember ! At the moment I am trying to
find a Ramones song with just three words...

'Surfing Bird' from 'Rocket to Russia' has very few -
but more than 3....

Ramones lyrics were 'stupid' - but in a good way ! :D
However - they never wrote something slightly political.

(probably because 'Johnny' being right wing, 'Joey' being
left wing, 'Dee Dee' just having fun and 'Tommy'...I really
don't know.

Can you believe it: From the original lineup - only 'Tommy' is
still alife...:(

Well I hope they are in Punk-Heaven, getting high and
playing the occasional gig for the angels...:laugh:

[communard resolution]

Its impossible. 'Sex and Violence' is so stupid that it comes
out on the other side again - like through a black hole -
and....Well, at least you realize it's stupid - my problem is I don't think Wattie does. Ramones, on the other hand, are smart-stupid, i.e. self-consciously stupid. And I didn't mean 3 word lyrics literally as far as Ramones, just short, minimalistic lyrics, esp on the first album. Look, if you're into The Exploited that's fine, it's just I never liked them because I felt they were selling real stupidity and football hooligan mentality as 'punk'. To some extent, I blame them (or at least view them as symptomatic) for how punk degenerated from a creative, witty, smart, diverse subculture with a sense of humour (see 70s) into a really dumb, conformist youth tribe with not much on offer except a particular dress code, getting drunk, and shouting a bunch of meaningless slogans. I'm not saying every single punk in the world is like that -many aren't- but the Exploited archetype is what has been dominating the punk scene since the 80s. When I was a punk rocker, we always viewed The Exploited and their followers as the absolute bottom of the barrel - and we weren't even very political.


The only thing I would change in those lyrics is:
Instead of 'Sex and Violence' --> 'Sex, Beer and Violence'.

Thats the quintessence of Punk - have no illusions !!!
What's the deal with your apparent obsession with violence, by the way? Do you mean violence as a means to some end? Violence against fascists? Or just really stupid, pointless, neanderthal style violence for the sake of it?

[communard resolution]

However - they never wrote something slightly political.


'Bonzo Goes To Bitburg' was about Reagan's controversial visiting Waffen SS graves in Germany. Johnny didn't like it much.

[Grunt]

- my problem is I don't think Wattie does.

Well I am not sure anymore. Exploited 'lyrics', even those who
are political, are not intellectual, some of them are plain stupid.
But if you take for example 'The Massacre' - the lyrics are very
simple - but the question posed is a clear one: Why ?




Ramones, on the other hand, are smart-stupid, i.e. self-consciously stupid.
You really think they are 'self-consciously' stupid ? It would be nice
to be able to believe that.
Yes: 'The Exploited' are in a way 'bottom of the barrel' and thats
appealing for some people (like me). I am also the 'bottom of the
barrel'. By that I don't mean to say that I'm a retard or completely
stupid - just: I am (litterarly) an exploited.

I like the terms 'exploited' and 'oppressed' much better than the
eternal 'working class', although for me those words are
synonymous...

I have come to RevLeft to get me (through book-tips and
discussions etc.) a political education. I do not know yet
what the end result will be. I have a long reading list now
already and its going to be tough.

And this thread I started, because I figured that there must
be punx around and/or people who like some punk music.

But this particular thread also helps me to (re-)define myself
as a Punk.



Look, if you're into The Exploited that's fine, it's just I never liked them because I felt they were selling real stupidity and football hooligan mentality as 'punk'.
I like their first albums, the later ones are a bit too trashy.
Real Stupidity/Football hooliganism/Sex/Violence/Getting drunk/
Having fun - Yes !

But I listen to it and pogo to it and smash into other people
to it - much more self-consciously than lets say 2 years ago.

'The Exploited' are great - but very limited. I know that.

Thats why I am no longer obeying the 'rules' regarding which
music is OK and which not.

So I pick and choose and if anybody - 'crew' or not doesn't matter -
has a problem with that, then: Fuck Off.

I am not totally obsessed with 'The Exploited', no, no. From
Pistols, Ramones, XTC, Damned, UK-Subs, Cockney Rejects, 999,
X-Ray Specs, Buzzcocks, Cock Sparrer, Oppressed to post punk
like Joy Division/New Order, Siouxsie, PiL to 80's and 90's
japanese punk/speedmetal - I like a lot of music ! :)

But to get really down, shutting off brain, get drunk and have
fun - The Exploited are great in all their stupidity.

I only hope that Wattie is at least smart enough to realize that
his band is 'the bottom of the barrel'...:D





To some extent, I blame them (or at least view them as symptomatic) for how punk degenerated from a creative, witty, smart, diverse subculture with a sense of humour (see 70s) into a really dumb, conformist youth tribe with not much on offer except a particular dress code, getting drunk, and shouting a bunch of meaningless slogans.
You have a point there, although I do not think that it was just
'The Exploited': From 1979 on Punk went into a lot of different
directions.

To name the two extremes: On the one side there came
'arty farty' post-punk bands like 'The Talking Heads' for the
intellectuals.

And the other extreme were and are bands who are and play
for the 'bottom of the barrel', who still had (and have)
no future. Bands like 'Cockney Rejects' and 'The Exploited'.

(and there are of course the traitors and sell outs: Blondie,
U2, Depeche, Billy Idol etc. etc. etc. etc. )

There were (and are) also bands who are somewhat 'in the middle'
like my 2nd favourite band 'UK-Subs' - and Charlie Harper has
more brains than the entire Exploited lineup together.



I'm not saying every single punk in the world is like that -many aren't- but the Exploited archetype is what has been dominating the punk scene since the 80s.
To a certain (and unfortunately not negligible ) degree: Yes !

However the mohawk isn't as popular anymore as it used to be -
so my style is perhaps a bit oldfashioned - who cares ? :)

(Wattie stopped having a decent mohawk in the beginning of
the 90's I think...)

I started out as the 'standard Punk' with standard style and all.

But many things have changed in the 'crew' and I have decided
to do what Johnny Rotten said: Be yourself, be creative, do what
you want, don't except the old order (and here I'm talking about
Punk-'order', yes, yes).

So, since some of my best mates also 'matured' the 'crew' has
become more open and tolerant, less conformity, different
hairstyles (!), it is not any longer 'forbidden' to listen to anything
else but Punk etc.

And now I decided to go further and get myself a political
education.

I am well aware of the fact that shouting 'Anarchy', 'Fuck the
pigs', 'All cops are bastards', 'Fuck the System' etc. etc. are
little more than empty phrases...

So I will read what the comrades here recommend (if I can afford
the books - if not I steal them...:D ) and then when I know a
little - take part in discussions and ask outright questions (like
the great John Lydon told 'us' to do ).

So we will see which 'label' I will get (Anarchist, Marxist, Leninist,
Trotzkyist or whatever ).





What's the deal with your apparent obsession with violence, by the way?
Do you mean violence as a means to some end? Violence against fascists? Or just really stupid, pointless, neanderthal style violence for the sake of it?
Honestly ? You really wanna know ??

Its not my obsession - its Punk. Punk was from the start a violent
movement. (Fights, Pogo, Smashing into each other etc.).

No means to an end really - it was (and still is to a certain degree)
for fun. So you could say that: 'Stupid', 'Pointless', violence - as
some sort of 'emergency valve' for the 'exploited' and 'oppressed'
who have no future and know it.

Of course there was (and is) fighting against the Nazis (SD). Luckily
the few skins here are apolitical, and no nazi-punk crew survived
long enough here.

[Grunt]

'Bonzo Goes To Bitburg' was about Reagan's controversial visiting Waffen SS graves in Germany. Johnny didn't like it much.
Correct ! How could I forget that !

And did it ever occur to 'Johnny' that the lyrics of
'The KKK took my baby away' were about him taking
Linda away from 'Joey' ?

I wonder....

[redSHARP]

Of course there was (and is) fighting against the Nazis (SD). Luckily
the few skins here are apolitical, and no nazi-punk crew survived
long enough here.


those apololical skins are just as bad. they purge leftist skins (redskins) just as much as they do to the nazis. fortunetly, i dont carry any patches or signs (not even a SHARP patch). i like to be able to go to any scene, not nazi, and not worry about the boots and braces color game or a dumb patch (there are a few hints of it still being around, i am always a bit creeped out by white laddered boot laces). i usually use SHARP as an avatar for online stuff; just to spread the good word for skins everywhere.

[communard resolution]

'The Exploited' are in a way 'bottom of the barrel' and thats
appealing for some people (like me). I am also the 'bottom of the
barrel'. By that I don't mean to say that I'm a retard or completely
stupid - just: I am (litterarly) an exploited.I meant the intellectual bottom of the barrel. Johnny Rotten was also 'bottom of the barrel' on the social ladder, yet he was an incredibly smart motherfucker.


and there are of course the traitors and sell outs: BlondieWho have Blondie betrayed and how? Just because they played a bit of disco music? As far as I'm concerned, Blondie have always been true to themselves, it's not like they ever pledged allegiance to eternal punkdom. They predated whatever is associated with 'Punk' today, why should they stick to a 'punk' formula established by others?

Blondie were one of the greatest pop bands of all time, and some of their lyrics were just so damn smart and real. Listen to a song like 'Dreaming', for instance. To me, that's a spot-on 'real life' lyric without invoking chaos, violence, and stupidity. I find Blondie much more convincing, credible, and honest than most of the wannabe street-tough boots-and-studs brigade.


There were (and are) also bands who are somewhat 'in the middle'
like my 2nd favourite band 'UK-Subs' - and Charlie Harper has
more brains than the entire Exploited lineup together. I couldn't agree more - see, you don't need to be dumb to be punk. I met Charlie Harper when I was 15 (everybody met him at some point in their lives...) and he made a great impression on me - this impression has never changed. Great music too.


Its not my obsession - its Punk. Punk was from the start a violent
movement. (Fights, Pogo, Smashing into each other etc.).No, it's not punk and it wasn't a violent movement from the start. It became a violent movement when all the wallies from the suburbs came in and tried to live up to the bullshit that the tabloid press was writing about punks. I'm all for beating up fascists, but I think you're romantizing the arsehole element of the punk scene in hindsight, i.e. all those people who always managed to destroy everything that others had built up, incl. their own scene.

[Kropotesta]

yeah, Grunt, I really don't get your fascination with violence.

[Grunt]

I meant the intellectual bottom of the barrel. Johnny Rotten was also 'bottom of the barrel' on the social ladder, yet he was an incredibly smart motherfucker.
Yepp - John Lydon is a smart son of a ***** - no doubt.
I have respect for that man.

...and yes: I admit that intelectually 'The Exploited' are a couple
of lightyears away from guys like him.



Who have Blondie betrayed and how? Just because they played a bit of disco music? As far as I'm concerned, Blondie have always been true to themselves, it's not like they ever pledged allegiance to eternal punkdom. They predated whatever is associated with 'Punk' today, why should they stick to a 'punk' formula established by others?
I see your point. Perhaps 'Traitors' was a bit harsh. Still 'Blondie'
surfed on the waves of 'Punk' without ever having been the least
punk.

They were famous and got rich, while for example 'The Ramones' never
'hit the jackpot' (and I am talking about the big one here).

My girlfriend likes 'Blondie' and I admit that (in times when I am weak -
LOL) I occasiomnally listen to 'Atomic' - although the lyrics are
definitely even worse than 'Exploited'-lyrics....:lol:



I couldn't agree more - see, you don't need to be dumb to be punk. I met Charlie Harper when I was 15 (everybody met him at some point in their lives...) and he made a great impression on me - this impression has never changed. Great music too.
You met Charlie Harper ?? Oh man - thats beyond awesome.
The 'Subs' are still going strong and as to the violence you guys
are always asking me about: Listen to 'Confrontation Street' (either
on the 'Diminished Responsibility'-album or on a life album) !



No, it's not punk and it wasn't a violent movement from the start. It became a violent movement when all the wallies from the suburbs came in and tried to live up to the bullshit that the tabloid press was writing about punks.
Partly true. But remember Sid ? He was always ready for a good
fight or smashing...



I'm all for beating up fascists,
Great ! Me too. Its more constructive (I admit) than random violence
or Punx foighting Punx for fun...

But fighting Nazis is fun too !




but I think you're romantizing the arsehole element of the punk scene in hindsight, i.e. all those people who always managed to destroy everything that others had built up, incl. their own scene.
I don't know about the 'romantizing' but we punx are assholes,
we call each other '****'. Punk is nasty and mean and you find it
'on the bottom of the barrel' (although -as you correctly said- not
necessarilly in the intelectual sense)

[Grunt]

yeah, Grunt, I really don't get your fascination with violence.
Its fun ! :D

...and sometimes even 'constructive' (as you call it) when
beating up Nazis !!

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Its fun ! :D

...and sometimes even 'constructive' (as you call it) when
beating up Nazis !!

. . .I hate Illinois Nazis.

[communard resolution]

Still 'Blondie' surfed on the waves of 'Punk' without ever having been the least punk.In NYC, punk was a term to describe a scene, not a music style or fashion dictum. All the new bands who played the CBGB's from 1975 onward, knew each other, and appeared in McNeil's and Holmstrom's 'Punk Magazine' were known as punk bands. Blondie were one of the earliest bands in that scene, therefore they were a punk band. It's absurd to claim they surfed on the waves of punk when they were in fact one of the small handful of bands who invented it.

When punk hit England and got massively hyped by a stagnating music industry desperate for a new trend, it got standardized and associated with a very specific music style and set of clothes. The suburban knobs came in, imitated what they read, and the whole thing degenerated into a bog standard youth tribe with a set of rules how to be a punk. This had never been the intention of the original punks in both NYC and London.


They were famous and got rich, while for example 'The Ramones' never
'hit the jackpot' (and I am talking about the big one here). They became famous and rich, and quite rightly so. They were just incredibly talented. If someone offered me a million dollars for playing music, I would certainly prefer this option to getting up in the morning and going to work. I feel sorry it didn't quite work out for the Ramones. They were very talented in their own way too, but I understand their sound was just too harsh for the big market at the time. It's a shame that all the American college punk bands made millions from their innovations in the 90s.


My girlfriend likes 'Blondie' and I admit that (in times when I am weak -
LOL) I occasiomnally listen to 'Atomic' - although the lyrics are
definitely even worse than 'Exploited'-lyrics....:lol:Haha, yeah I agree, this particular lyric is stoopid. But they had some awesome lyrics too.


You met Charlie Harper ?? Oh man - thats beyond awesome.Don't worry, you'll meet him too if you stay a punk for another one or two years. That man is omnipresent.


Partly true. But remember Sid ? He was always ready for a good
fight or smashing... I hate to break it to you, but Sid was a no-talent moron, and most of his contemporaries knew that. He was the one who got it all wrong and took the whole thing way too seriously. Thanks for bringing him up, though, cause it makes me think that he was in fact the "macho retard" punk prototype. That's why the Exploited and most subsequent idiot punks were so obsessed with him rather than, say Johnny Rotten or Richard Hell.
I admit that he looked cool, and I love the 'Sid Sings' album, but the main reason is because he covered a lot of my favourite songs on that one.



I don't know about the 'romantizing' but we punx are assholes,
we call each other '****'. Punk is nasty and mean and you find it
'on the bottom of the barrel' (although -as you correctly said- not
necessarilly in the intelectual sense)[/quoteYeah, please tell me about punks...

[jaffe]

Its fun ! :D

...and sometimes even 'constructive' (as you call it) when
beating up Nazis !!


have you ever been involved in a fight?

[Grunt]

have you ever been involved in a fight?
Yes, comrade Jaffe, I have. Have you ?

Inside and outside the ring. (yes: I am an amateur boxer)
I learned very early. (Still: I am not too handy with switchblades -
I have to admit, I hate them.)

[Grunt]

. . .I hate Illinois Nazis.
I don't know them - but since they are Nazis: I hate them with a
vengeance !

[KrazyRabidSheep]

I don't know them - but since they are Nazis: I hate them with a
vengeance !
:laugh: It's a quote from "The Blues Brothers".

[Grunt]

:laugh: It's a quote from "The Blues Brothers".
Oh - you rascall !!! :lol:

You really got me there, didn't you ? :)

Good one, comrade !

[Grunt]

In NYC, punk was a term to describe a scene, not a music style or fashion dictum. All the new bands who played the CBGB's from 1975 onward, knew each other, and appeared in McNeil's and Holmstrom's 'Punk Magazine' were known as punk bands. Blondie were one of the earliest bands in that scene, therefore they were a punk band. It's absurd to claim they surfed on the waves of punk when they were in fact one of the small handful of bands who invented it.
I know that Blondie were there at the very beginning, and the first
songs were actually punk (-ish). I dunno muck about the NY scene -
only that Iggy Pop and the Stooges inspired the Ramones. I know
about 'The New York Dolls' and the role they played, I know and admire
Richard Hell. 'Blank Generation' is one of the greatest songs of all time.

The NY scene and the London scene were very different at the
start. Then the NY scene (Ramones) came to London and influenced
the scene, especially 'The Clash' but many others too.

The 'Pistols' however, coming to the States didn't influence anybody.
John Lydon knows that after the first concert.

It was a self fullfilling prophesy: Th american audience expected a
freak show - and due to circumstances (Sid losing it totally,
and McLaren not giving a shit) they became a freak show

The Winterland concert was the 'apocalypse'. I have it on video.
Its both sad and makes me angry.

Lydon was the one who really knew what was happening.
PiL started very soon afterwards - and released 3 groundbreaking
albums.



When punk hit England and got massively hyped by a stagnating music industry desperate for a new trend, it got standardized and associated with a very specific music style and set of clothes. The suburban knobs came in, imitated what they read, and the whole thing degenerated into a bog standard youth tribe with a set of rules how to be a punk. This had never been the intention of the original punks in both NYC and London.

I don't know about the US. But in the UK: Two phases.

1. Underground Punk (up to the Bill Grundy Interview,
December 1st 1976)

2. Overground Punk (after the Bill Grundy Interview,
December 1st 1976)

The tabloids blew everything up, as only the UK tabloids
can ! They distorted everything and (I aggree with you
here) attracted (to a certain degree) the wrong people.

They also attracted 'the right' people of course. But from
then on everything was different.

The next major change was when Sid died and when quite
many people declared him a saint or some shit.

I agree with you: Sid wasn't bright. Sid was no Saint.
Sid couldn't play. The only thing he contributed was
'attitude'.

But now the movement (which already had started to
disintegrate) kind of split into Punx who only wanted to be
like and look like Sid. And those who went off to discover
new ground.




They became famous and rich, and quite rightly so. They were just
incredibly talented. If someone offered me a million dollars for playing
music, I would certainly prefer this option to getting up in the morning and
going to work.
Ha, ha - me too ! :)

'Blondie' were commercial, except for the very early songs.
I am no fan of them - they plyed pop-music. Some of their
songs are easy to listen to, easy to consume.

You liking and defending 'Blondie' corresponds quite nicely with
me liking and defending 'The Exploited' - think about it. :D




It's a shame that all the American college punk bands made
millions from their innovations in the 90s.
Yepp ! Thats disgusting. Thats why I rather listen to 'The Exploited'
and if need be - even 'Blondie'. College Punk - thats the real
bottom. Rich kids posing as Punks while goin to or preparing
for the Ivy League.

To say it with the immortal Ramones: "Beat on the brat, with a
baseball bat.".




Don't worry, you'll meet him too if you stay a punk for another one or two years. That man is omnipresent.
I sure hope so ! :)



I hate to break it to you, but Sid was a no-talent moron, and most of his contemporaries knew that. He was the one who got it all wrong and took the whole thing way too seriously. Thanks for bringing him up, though, cause it makes me think that he was in fact the "macho retard" punk prototype. That's why the Exploited and most subsequent idiot punks were so obsessed with him rather than, say Johnny Rotten or Richard Hell.
I admit that he looked cool, and I love the 'Sid Sings' album, but the main reason is because he covered a lot of my favourite songs on that one.

'Sid sings' is hilarious and its Punk in its own way.

As to the other things you wrote: I have answered already above -
and repeat: Sid wasn't the brightest star in the sky (intellectually)
and had no talent. He wasn't a Saint nor a Martyr.

He provided the template for many 'Punx' he was the 'Poster
Punk'.




Yeah, please tell me about punks...
You're a Punk yourself, comrade. And believe me: I know one
when I see one ! :)

So, no need for me to tell you.

I don't care (and it doesn't matter) whether your haircolour is
green, blue, pink, normal or rainbow. I do't care how many
spikes in which places there are on your leather jacket or if
you have one at all.
I don't care if you wear Doc Martens boots or normal shoes.

You're a Punk.

[Grunt]

Anyone like Todo?
www.todo.is (http://www.todo.is)
You naughty rascal, Kropotesta ! :laugh:

You forced me to terminate that 'lovely' song via
task-manager...:lol:

...can't believe that I fell for that ! :D

[communard resolution]

I know that Blondie were there at the very beginning, and the first
songs were actually punk (-ish).What I was trying to get across is that 'punk' was not a definition of any specific music style - that only happened from around late '76/'77 when the music industry needed to sell a package to the consumer that could be easily identified as 'punk'. Because the Ramones made the biggest impression on the early British punks, the music industry decided upon them as the musical blueprint by which to define and sell punk as a music style from thereon: wall of sound, loud overdriven power chords, rootnotes only on bass, downstrokes only on both guitar and bass, minimal 4/4 beat, short duration. It's a great style that I still get a kick out of listening to, but it wasn't the only style played by 'punk' bands in the beginning. If you listen to the NYC bands, they sounded very different from each other. Television sounded nothing like the Ramones, Blondie sounded nothing like the Dead Boys, and so on. And yet, all of them were punk bands because they all happened to be part of the CBGB scene known as 'punk'. I suppose the common denominator was a distaste for 70s rock, but the individual musical approaches were very different. Blondie were a pop band musically, but still a 'punk' band. Dead Boys were a rock'n'roll band musically, but still a punk band. And so on.

From '77 onwards, you had to play a narrowly defined style of music to be considered punk, but that had never been the original idea. That's why original punks like Johnny Rotten or Blondie played entirely different music by '79 while the legions of newcomer punk bands were religiously sticking to the 1977 aesthetic. The Ramones kept doing what they had always been doing, but I think part of the reason was that, well... I don't think they could have played anything different if their lives depended on it.


'Blondie' were commercial, except for the very early songs.
I am no fan of them - they plyed pop-music. Some of their
songs are easy to listen to, easy to consume.I think all of the early punk bands were commercial in the sense that they all wanted to become successful - otherwise they would have just played to themselves in their rehearsal rooms. I agree Blondie is friendlier to your ears than, say the Dead Boys, but I think Blondie were being honest and true to themselves. They just liked good pop music, and so do I. When they took an interest in disco, they played some of that too - that's just who they were at the time. Imagine Debbie Harry pretending to be Johnny Rotten, gobbing and screaming about anarchy and getting pissed - now that would have been extremely dishonest and cynical.


To say it with the immortal Ramones: "Beat on the brat, with a
baseball bat.".Yeah, I agree. Give me the friggin Exploited over Sum 41 anytime.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Imagine Debbie Harry pretending to be Johnny Rotten, gobbing and screaming about anarchy and getting pissed - now that would have been extremely dishonest and cynical.
And yet highly erotic.

[Grunt]

Because the Ramones made the biggest
impression on the early British punks, the music industry decided upon them as the musical blueprint by which to define and sell punk as a music style from thereon: wall of sound, loud overdriven power chords, rootnotes only on bass, downstrokes only on both guitar and bass, minimal 4/4 beat, short duration. It's a great style that I still get a kick out of listening to, but it wasn't the only style played by 'punk' bands in the beginning.
I agree - the music-industry grabbed Punk really fast. I also agree
that 'Hardcore Punk' was narrowly defined early on.

But the post-punk and new wave scene was a direct result of
punk - and many cool bands (not punk) discovered new ground.



If you listen to the NYC bands, they sounded very different from each other. Television sounded nothing like the Ramones, Blondie sounded nothing like the Dead Boys, and so on. And yet, all of them were punk bands because they all happened to be part of the CBGB scene known as 'punk'. I suppose the common denominator was a distaste for 70s rock, but the individual musical approaches were very different. Blondie were a pop band musically, but still a 'punk' band. Dead Boys were a rock'n'roll band musically, but still a punk band. And so on.
I don't know very much about the NYC scene except for the bands you
named and a couple more. Since 'Blondie' was there from the beginning -
and obviously accepted as a Punk-band: So be it. I am still no fan
of 'Blondie' - but I compare it a bit to me liking 'Adam and the Ants' -:D

Yeah: Distaste for the bombastic 70's sound with Dinosaur bands
with Dinosaur brains, and distaste for the Hippie - shite !

But: The NY-Dolls were a blend of Glam-Rock/Stooges/Punk
for example ! And in Japan in the 80's and 90's a fascinating
new sound emerged from different sources: Punk, Speedmetal,
Glam-Rock and 'Visual Kei'. One of the results (and an immortal
band) was X-Japan.



The Ramones kept doing what they had always been doing, but I think part of the reason was that, well... I don't think they could have played anything different if their lives depended on it.
I agree totally. The Ramones created a sound and a music that was
new (then) and basically stayed with it to the end.



Imagine Debbie Harry pretending to be Johnny Rotten, gobbing and
screaming about anarchy and getting pissed - now that would have been
extremely dishonest and cynical.
Yepp - they had their own style too - it was commercial and (to me)
a bit superficial - but at least they didn't pretend to be something
that they were not.



Yeah, I agree. Give me the friggin Exploited over Sum 41 anytime.
Sum 41 is rich kids 'Punk'. College 'Punk'. Easy to consume, everything copied from other bands...

I just listened to 'No Reason' on YouTube to be sure that they really
are as pathetic as I remember - and they are.

Compared to them 'The Exploited' are the real deal - despite all their
shortcomings !

Unfortunately, quite many kids are into this kind of abomination. :(

[Grunt]

And yet highly erotic.
Really ? You think so, comrade ? :)

Seems to me like you have a little crush on Debbie Harry...

Dont worry: I still have a crush on Sioxsie Sioux (...and Joan Jett :blushing: )

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Really ? You think so, comrade ? :)

Seems to me like you have a little crush on Debbie Harry...

Dont worry: I still have a crush on Sioxsie Sioux (...and Joan Jett :blushing: )
I would nail either Debbie Harry or Joan Jett in a moment.

The 80s had the hottest girls. :drool:

[redSHARP]

skinheads have it easy on fashion:

1. what ever you want

however, the boots and braces bring it all together. i never really got into the fred perry/ben sherman look; it is to expensive. unfortunetly everyone gives me really sketchy looks on the subway, but for some odd reason girls dig it.

[Grunt]

skinheads have it easy on fashion:

1. what ever you want
Cool ! :cool: But 'Doc Martens' boots, right ?

I am getting me new boots soon - they are not at all
'Punk' - :lol: But I don't give a fuck.

Here check them out:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Common/Boot2.jpg


No - they aren't Doc Martens - but I think they are
awesome.




however, the boots and braces bring it all together.
Thus speaks a true Skin ! :) Totally !
No braces for me - but spike wristbands, belt - and generally
spikes everywhere...:lol:

Don't have many patches on my Leather-jacket nomore, but
a super nasty 'Exploited' back patch...:D



unfortunetly everyone gives me really sketchy looks on the subway, but for some odd reason girls dig it.
Don't worry about sketchy looks - I get them too and see the hate
in their eyes...

Yepp-girls dig it. True ! :)

[Grunt]

I would nail either Debbie Harry or Joan Jett in a moment.
Totally, comrade ! But Debbie Harry and Joan Jett how they
looked in the 80's - not now. :)

[communard resolution]

But: The NY-Dolls were a blend of Glam-Rock/Stooges/Punk
for example ! A

The Dolls are perhaps my all-time favourite band. If it's not them, it's the Stooges.


nd in Japan in the 80's and 90's a fascinating
new sound emerged from different sources: Punk, Speedmetal,
Glam-Rock and 'Visual Kei'. One of the results (and an immortal
band) was X-Japan.

You will have to clue me up to a lot of Japanese stuff.



Yepp - they had their own style too - it was commercial and (to me)
a bit superficial - but at least they didn't pretend to be something
that they were not.

Oh no, it was great what there were doing. The Pistols were just being themselves, and so were Blondie. What I meant is that if Blondie had pretended to be the Pistols, that would have been embarrassing. Both bands did what they were doing best.

One thing I (and others) keep forgetting when slagging off Sid for being a moron etc is: these people were all really young. Sid was a KID! I did so many stupid, moronic things in my teens... and I still do quite frequently... I think I should get off my high horse sometimes.

[communard resolution]

I would nail either Debbie Harry or Joan Jett in a moment.Joan Jett is just so fucking cool.

If you're a guy, chances are you wouldn't get lucky with Joan, though...

[Grunt]

The Dolls are perhaps my all-time favourite band. If it's not them, it's the Stooges.
I like the Dolls too ! The Stooges were so ahead in time - its
unbelievable. Without the Dolls, The Stooges, Iggy Pop solo and
of course The Velvet Underground there wouldn't be no punk !!

You know whom I like too: Richard Hell !

'Blank Generation' is (lyrics and all) one of the best songs ever
recorded !!



You will have to clue me up to a lot of Japanese stuff.
There is a whole new world - just waiting to be discovered.
Most of the J-Rock and J-Punk bands are virtually unknown
outside Japan. 'X-Japan' (reunited, but without hide (R.I.P.))
will perform at the Garden in NYC in September. Before that they
have a gig in Paris. Its the first time they are playing outside
Japan. Sugizo (top-notch) plays lead guitar - but hide will be
present via holograms, and they will mix original hide guitar solo's
into the life gig performances.




Oh no, it was great what there were doing. The Pistols were just being
themselves, and so were Blondie. What I meant is that if Blondie had
pretended to be the Pistols, that would have been embarrassing. Both
bands did what they were doing best.
Agreed !! :)




One thing I (and others) keep forgetting when slagging off Sid for being a moron etc is: these people were all really young. Sid was a KID! I did so many stupid, moronic things in my teens... and I still do quite frequently... I think I should get off my high horse sometimes.
Yepp - they were young. Even younger than me...

Don't worry Caligula - you don't come across as 'sitting on a high
horse' - not at all ! :)

[Grunt]

If you're a guy, chances are you wouldn't get
lucky with Joan, though...
Ha, ha - thats true ! :)

[communard resolution]

unbelievable. Without the Dolls, The Stooges, Iggy Pop solo and
of course The Velvet Underground there wouldn't be no punk !!

Yeah, and what's rarely mentioned is the fact that a lot of post-punk wouldn't have happened without the styles and sounds that Iggy and Bowie came up with on 'The Idiot'. For that matter, also check Bowie's 'Low' and 'Heroes' albums.

[communard resolution]

There is a whole new world - just waiting to be discovered.
Most of the J-Rock and J-Punk bands are virtually unknown
outside Japan. 'X-Japan' (reunited, but without hide (R.I.P.))
will perform at the Garden in NYC in September. Before that they
have a gig in Paris. Its the first time they are playing outside
Japan. Sugizo (top-notch) plays lead guitar - but hide will be
present via holograms, and they will mix original hide guitar solo's
into the life gig performances.The concept with the holograms and his solos mixed into the performance just sounds SO Japanese! What you say about them sounds very interesting. Which X-Japan album shall I listen to first?

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Joan Jett is just so fucking cool.

If you're a guy, chances are you wouldn't get lucky with Joan, though...
Doesn't mean I can't have my fantasies


Totally, comrade ! But Debbie Harry and Joan Jett how they
looked in the 80's - not now. :)
Yeah, I'd prefer the 80s model to today's.

I'm not picky, though (not like I'm a supermodel or anything.)

[Grunt]

The concept with the holograms and his solos mixed into the performance just sounds SO Japanese!

Check out 'Kurenai' from March 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8u78pN4szc

The guy with the pink hair and the guitar with all the little
hearts is hide (Hologram). hide died 1998 but is still a member
of X !

----

'Silent Jealousy' from March 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnxw4HSSPSs

See Sugizo and hide (holo) rock out together !

----

Hide memorial March 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBbayi6A6nM

Its a ballad and very very sad, for all who love hide-sama...:(


http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/X%20and%20Hide/ds.jpg

hide (1964-1998) R.I.P.
LOVE YOU FOREVER, MAN !





What you say about them sounds very interesting. Which X-Japan album shall I listen to first?

First I would recommend to check out wheter you like them
at all. Here two fantastic life performances:

X:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj_E3BTL1AA


Kurenai 1992:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUsAmb15njo


Then: To start with I would recommend:

X JAPAN - X SINGLES (Compile) 1993 Sony Music

http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/mes%20images/design/images/spacer.gif(Hard to come by, If you are not living in Japan.
CDJapan has all the stuff but is expensive and the
shipping fees kill me...)

[DancingLarry]

Got into punk back around 78,. still a lot of my favorite national/intl stuff is the music from that era, groups like X, XRay Spex, Rezillos, SLF, Go4. More or less been dedicated to local music for most of the past 20-25 years, which includes a strong and ongoing local punk scene, also some decent funk, reggae and ska bands in the area over the years. When I hit 40 I finally got around to being in a couple of bands, just to see thngs from the other side of the stage, but now I'm mostly back on the dance floor, over 50, while all the kids sit on their azzes, them being much much too cool to dance to live music.

[DancingLarry]

See people mentioning Japanese punk bands, one of the hottest bands I ever played on the same bill with was a Japanese band named Gaia. That band rawked.

[Grunt]

Got into punk back around 78,. still a lot of my favorite national/intl stuff is the music from that era, groups like X, XRay Spex, Rezillos, SLF, Go4.
So you're a genuine vintage '78 Punk ? Thats great, man! :D



More or less been dedicated to local music for most of the past 20-25 years, which includes a strong and ongoing local punk scene
Yeah. A strong scene is important. Also its imporatant that the
scene is 'open' and not some kind of 'secret club' !!
Me and a couple of buddies sometimes have a pretty hard time to
keep the crew from becoming to conformist and shit.




...but now I'm mostly back on the dance floor, over 50, while all the kids sit on their azzes, them being much much too cool to dance to live music.
Ha, ha :lol: - thats so awesome - and true. There is nothing better
than pogo to a good, solid hardcore-punk life band. :)

-----------



See people mentioning Japanese punk bands, one of the hottest bands I
ever played on the same bill with was a Japanese band named Gaia. That
band rawked.
Really ? Awesome. I only know Gaia Mesiah (which is a czech band,
a pretty good one).
Haven't located the Japanese Gaia you mentioned. Do you have a
YouTube link ?

[Grunt]

However I know the song 'Gaia' by Janne Da Arc (ジャンヌダルク)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyG8fOIEZ5U

Janne Da Arc are a japanese band and they are
awesome ! A bit commercial at times - but still
'Le Top' ! :)

Check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_-mqtpnTlI

They are a J-Rock band, so not exactly punk, but I don't care.
High quality J-Rock !

Ceck out 'Dearly': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suX9Vi0iQ8U


Members:

yasu (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasu_%28Musician%29&action=edit&redlink=1) (vocal)
you (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=You_%28Musician%29&action=edit&redlink=1) (guitar)
ka-yu (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ka-yu_%28Musician%29&action=edit&redlink=1) (bass)
kiyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kiyo%28Musician%29&action=edit&redlink=1) (keyboard)
shuji (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuji_%28Musician%29&action=edit&redlink=1) (drum)




http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Common/jda.jpg

[DancingLarry]

Did a little searching around, Gaia seems to have broken up in 1997, which means that we played with them right at the end of their existence. It looks like their label put all their singles and EPs onto a single disk after they broke up, titled "777". I guess breaking up in 1997 means they were just a little too early for the consumer electronics online communication breakout. A couple of the online mail-order catalogs seem to carry that disk, I just don't know if their live show energy carried over to gaia, my band at the time was The Hutus. I've searched repeatedly for evidence of The Hutus online, all I find is a mention of our drummer joining up later with a band called The Howards.

[Grunt]

Did a little searching around, Gaia seems to have broken up in 1997, which means that we played with them right at the end of their existence. It looks like their label put all their singles and EPs onto a single disk after they broke up, titled "777". I guess breaking up in 1997 means they were just a little too early for the consumer electronics online communication breakout. A couple of the online mail-order catalogs seem to carry that disk, I just don't know if their live show energy carried over to gaia, my band at the time was The Hutus. I've searched repeatedly for evidence of The Hutus online, all I find is a mention of our drummer joining up later with a band called The Howards.
Thanks for the information, comrade ! :)

[The Love Pirate]

I would nail either Debbie Harry or Joan Jett in a moment.

Oh, totally. Any of the Slits girls, too.

And I'm a woman. :D

[Kropotesta]

Anyone like A Global Threat? Fucking immense.

[Grunt]

Anyone like A Global Threat? Fucking immense.
They are awesome !!! :D

For example: "Fucking Racist Maggots" and "Work or War" !

Good, solid Hardcore-Punk. Perfect for Pogo ! :D

[Kropotesta]

They are awesome !!! :D

For example: "Fucking Racist Maggots" and "Work or War" !

Good, solid Hardcore-Punk. Perfect for Pogo ! :D
Yeah! 'Until we die' is my favourite album by them, which also has both of those songs you mention on :cool: They're pretty leftist aswell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvkB4ZN9YPA

[Post-Something]

Anyone like A Global Threat? Fucking immense.

Yeah, they are awesome!

[Grunt]

Yeah! 'Until we die' is my favourite album by them, which also has both of those songs you mention on :cool: They're pretty leftist aswell.
lvkB4ZN9YPA

Jeez - that one guy's mohawk is awesome !!! Same colour as mine,
but much longer...:D

I have to wait at least 6 months, maybe more - until mine is that
long...:(

[Kropotesta]

Jeez - that one guy's mohawk is awesome !!! Same colour as mine,
but much longer...:D

I have to wait at least 6 months, maybe more - until mine is that
long...:(
I used to have a mohican close to that length but got to tired of spiking it :cool:

[Grunt]

I used to have a mohican close to that length but got to tired of spiking it :cool:
Yepp - thats a pain in the ass.

I use 'Spiker' by Ice - its a hair-'glue' and works like a charm
(so far) but its expensive as hell...

Still: In about 6-9 months the spiking will take more and more
time.

Then - when its the length of the guy in the video - its enough.
Thats the perfect length for me !


...sorry: Just became aware of me talking 'punk-fashion' :blushing:

[Kropotesta]

Yepp - thats a pain in the ass.

I use 'Spiker' by Ice - its a hair-'glue' and works like a charm
(so far) but its expensive as hell...

Still: In about 6-9 months the spiking will take more and more
time.

Then - when its the length of the guy in the video - its enough.
Thats the perfect length for me !


...sorry: Just became aware of me talking 'punk-fashion' :blushing:
But punk fashion is fun!
You could always use PVA glue. Stick hair up well and because it's water based it will wash out, but sometimes takes a few washes!

[welshboy]

My mohawk at its longest was well over a foot long. But I got sick and tired of getting kicked out of boots for using their hairspray to spike it up. It wasn't shoplifting as I never left the store with the can :D
After I gave up on that though it soon turned into a strip of dreads. I do miss it sometimes but I do like being able to talk to folk without them being overly concerned about my outlandish hair and clothes.
Does anyone on here remember Culture Shock? They were a great punk band back in the day.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

My mohawk at its longest was well over a foot long. But I got sick and tired of getting kicked out of boots for using their hairspray to spike it up. It wasn't shoplifting as I never left the store with the can http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/biggrin.gif
After I gave up on that though it soon turned into a strip of dreads. I do miss it sometimes but I do like being able to talk to folk without them being overly concerned about my outlandish hair and clothes.
I never did the mohawk thing.

I used wax to do spikes, and I had (multi-coloured) dreadlocks in high school.

[Sickle of Justice]

i sort of have a mohawk. i cut my hair into one when i first got into punk, mostly ambiguously subcatagoried stuff like older anti-flag, strike anywhere, a global threat, but then i heard "tube diasasters" by FOPI and immediatly fell in love with Anarchopunk, which brought me into crust. due to a basic lack of hygine associated with crust, i stopped spiking my hair (on which i had been using gelatine and occasionally white school glue) and really started dressing down, thinking that maybe if i looked "normal" people would listen to my political ideas before dismissing me as a chaos loving nutcase. tho, now with my grown out mohawk it looks like i've got a mullet, so i'm thinking of going for dreds.

anyway, as for punk, i think the most important thing to say is "don't worry about it". the punkest thing you can do is just be yourself, and if that means dressing "punk" and listening to punk music, cool, but if it means being a hippie, a nerd, or whatever, that's just as good, provided it's you. although i think that the actual punk scene should be focused around leftism.

[Grunt]

Does anyone on here remember Culture Shock?
They were a great punk band back in the day.
No, unfortunately not. What kind of Punk did they play ? :cool:

[Grunt]

I used wax to do spikes, and I had (multi-coloured) dreadlocks in high school.
'Spiker' works better as long as you have the right kind of hair....

I don't...:(

So my mohawk always looks 'ruffled up' after a few hours...:lol:
(Dunno whether 'ruffled' is the right word though...)

[Grunt]

anyway, as for punk, i think the most important thing to say is "don't worry about it". the punkest thing you can do is just be yourself, and if that means dressing "punk" and listening to punk music, cool, but if it means being a hippie, a nerd, or whatever, that's just as good, provided it's you. although i think that the actual punk scene should be focused around leftism.
Exactly !! Well said ! Its about being yourself ! :D
...and not giving a fuck. (Except for politics - you are right there
too !) :)

[communard resolution]

Punk.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TKwa3g3gRos

[Grunt]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Common/gg_allin.jpg

Jesus Christ (GG) Allin
1956-1993
R.I.P.


...in this special case, with this Jesus - I am not
the Antichrist, for a change...:D


GG Allin was a great, great legendary Punk !! Awesome !
And I believe it was he who invented 'Country-Punk'.
But he was one crusty motherfucker....:D


Jesus Christ (GG) Allin was a genuine Punk if there
ever was one !! (And Charles Bukowski was one as well...)

I LOVE 'Carmelita' - but 'When I Die' is even better:


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I2fgTky_L_0



When I Die

When I die put that bottle in my hand
All these years on earth, and was my only friend
When you dig a hole and gonna bury me
Put that bottle of Jim Beam to rest beside me

All my life I've been living on the run
Hanging out in bars and hotel rooms annoying everyone
Living on the road running from coast to coast
Spending many nights in jail, like a gunman at his post

When I die, you don't have to cry
You don't have to feel no feelings inside

Never cared or had no feelings for no one
The only one I cared for was the one who made me cum
Live my life like a loner on the trail
Some of the nights in jail, I couldn't afford no bail

No one to call, no one to see me through
So I bought a gun one day and I came running after you
Living on the road, playing scumfuc rock 'n' roll
I'm on the road and I haven't got no home

Never lived nowhere long enough to call home
I'm just an outlaw scumfuc, playing my rock 'n' roll

Never had nothing that could keep me satisfied
'Cept my booze and my drugs and that woman by my side
She was no woman, but she's good enough for me
She's got that **** between her legs and that's all I need

So when I die put that bottle by my side
Bury me with ol' Jim Beam and I'll be on my hell ride
When I die, when I die
Down to Hell is my final destination

When I die put that bottle by my side
It's the only friend I had in life and it kept me satisfied
Living on the run you'll never take me out alive
I bought a gun, I'm leaving now

Bye-bye, bye-bye



Outlaw Scumfuc (1991)

Jesus Christ with Dee Dee Ramone in a Kilt (!) is absolutely
awesome, check it out:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUHkHLKCuU

[nvm]

punk Is Dead!

[Grunt]

And here the Queen of Punk:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Common/siouxsie2.jpg




Siouxsie...:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

...the goths claim of course that she was always goth and goth
only - but thats horseshit.

They should listen to:


'Happy House'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeBMHnJqAvM


'Arabian Knights'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP-ZUbSmkRM


'Israel'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTYvcms-Og

[Grunt]

punk Is Dead!
No it isn't.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee107/conchbe/Punk/exploited-punk_s-not-dead.jpg

[communard resolution]

More punk from the outskirts of society.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RqqweghTvWI

[An archist]

This represants punk quite well: the chaosdays in Hannover
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OG2l5oP-i7Y

[communard resolution]

This represants punk quite well: the chaosdays in Hannover
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OG2l5oP-i7Y

I was there. Got arrested within a few hours and spent the rest of the weekend in an overcrowded cell... that's what Chaostage were usually like in the 90s.

[Grunt]

This represants punk quite well: the chaosdays in Hannover
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OG2l5oP-i7Y
:D Chaostage in Hannover !! Must have been one hell of
a fight....

Good video - but it made me realize that punx today are
much more 'standardized' when it comes to clothes and
hair and shit - at least here in Sweden...

Yeah - we should have 'Kaosdagar' here - but I doubt that
enough punx will show up...

[Grunt]

BTW: 'Penitentiary Blues' is awesome, Nero ! :D

Blues-Punk ?! WOW !! :)

[Pirate Utopian]

Blues-Punk is the best, The Gun Club and Billy Childish are great.

[communard resolution]

blues-punk Is The Best, The Gun Club And Billy Childish Are Great.

Yessss!

[communard resolution]

BTW: 'Penitentiary Blues' is awesome, Nero ! :D

Blues-Punk ?! WOW !! :)

It's not really blues punk, it's just blues - I just think there's a punk feel to it, D.A. Coe was a junkie/jailbird/outlaw type. He went on to become a country singer later.

[communard resolution]

Chaostage in Hannover !! Must have been one hell of
a fight....

Yeah, but not for long as far as my participation - got nicked far too early.

[An archist]

Yeah, but not for long as far as my participation - got nicked far too early.
Sucks to be you.:p

[Grunt]

It's not really blues punk, it's just blues - I just think there's a punk feel to it, D.A. Coe was a junkie/jailbird/outlaw type. He went on to become a country singer later.
There most definitely is a 'punk feel' to it...:)

Punk-Blues. Why not ? I like it.

Although I have to admit that most punx probably
wouldn't 'get it'...:(

One of my favourite punx is Charles Bukowski !

[Grunt]

Yeah, but not for long as far as my participation - got nicked far too early.
Thats a shame ! And then locked up for the whole weekend...
Oh man ! :(

I am still entertaining the idea of having 'Kaosdagar' here
(STHLM or GBG) - that would be soooo great and fun.

Nowadays the only action her is on May 1st, when the
punx march with all sorts of lefty fractions. Its cool - but
too quiet.

Or when the SD-Nazis are 'parading' (They have now reached
the necessary 4% nationwide in the latest polls...:( ) -
then it usually gets pretty violent.

...and the cops (de facto) protecting the Nazis from us.

The cops and their bosses seem to think that Nazis don't
pose a threat - but that we do...

[communard resolution]

The cops and their bosses seem to think that Nazis don't
pose a threat - but that we do...

They're right: the Nazis don't pose a threat to them. We do.

[Grunt]

They're right: the Nazis don't pose a threat to them. We do.
Come to think of it: You are right ! Many, many cops are crypto-
fascists (the statistics don't lie) - and if there would come a
fascist regime, then that would mean: Police state (we are already
living in one - but it hasn't fully 'grown' yet), more coppers and
more power to the cops...:(

That makes sense. That's why they 'protect' the Nazis when there
is a rally or mass meeting.

And its also true: Punx are enemies of the state:


"Don't accept the old order, get rid of it !"

- Johnny Rotten

[Sickle of Justice]

of course, these days, johnny rotten and the other 77 punx represent a sort of "old order" of punk. it's ironic and funny, but i don't have any resentment, that's what happens to movements that are purely antiauthoritarian and anti social.

[Grunt]

Yeah its somehow 'ironic', isn't it ?
But its true !

The punk movement has gone through many
'revolutions' since the 'good old days' - still:

Punk and all what Punk 'stands for' - the very
core is still the same. :D