How are we going to do it? [Archive]

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gla22

1st June 2008, 20:04

Sectarianism aside: How are we going to overthrow capitalism? What groups are actively trying and where will it be overthrown first?

Voice_of_Reason

1st June 2008, 21:48

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.

cenv

1st June 2008, 23:25

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.

Care to elaborate?

gla22

1st June 2008, 23:58

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.
We might as well give up now if that is the case.

Organic Revolution

2nd June 2008, 00:06

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.

For someone with the name 'voice of reason' you dont really have much do you? Where is this logic, and why would we need an 80% die-off? Are you going of the Zerzan/Jensen assumption that population rates can't sustain in todays world? Look into the logic of that, and see who dies... The poor. If this is the case, its reactionary at best.

There are many groups laying the ground work for revolution such as, OCAP, PCAP, the Zapatistas, and The Oxaca groups to name a few.

leftspot

2nd June 2008, 02:38

Sectarianism aside: How are we going to overthrow capitalism? What groups are actively trying and where will it be overthrown first?

Well, the capitalists have already lost state power in countries that have had socialist revolutions, like Cuba.

As we speak the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) is leading a revolutionary process that just succeeded in overthrowing more than 200 years of monarchy...they are heading into the New Democratic stage of the revolution, which could lay the groundwork for socialism.

I'd also put Venezuela high on the list. There is a revolutionary process going on in Venezuela, which is struggling to find the way to move forward to socialism. The recent referendum failed by the slimmest of margins for reasons that are complex and important to study in more detail. But the referendum, and the consolidation of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela shows that millions of Venezuelans are hoping and preparing to turn Venezuela into a socialist country.

Those are the two countries I'd say are the closest.

It's a hopeful time to be a communist!

KurtFF8

2nd June 2008, 03:18

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.

You know that most people of the world are being exploited by Capitalism right? They would be the one's you'd like to target to overthrow it? Odd

Voice_of_Reason

2nd June 2008, 18:59

Where is this logic, and why would we need an 80% die-off?Well, This actually gets a little complicated and I'm not exactly the best at explaining myself. Basically communism requires somewhat of a non corrupt society, but right at the moment %20 of the population is corrupt. With a society this large you are going to have a corrupt society or a society that relies on being corrupt. With a number of people this large you are never going to have a corruption free society. With %80 less people you will still have corruption but it will be controllable. Right now our corrupt society relies on capitalism because it in itself is corrupt. When you apply communism those corrupt people will fight back and even non-corrupt people being corrupted.

dirtycommiebastard

2nd June 2008, 19:07

Well, This actually gets a little complicated and I'm not exactly the best at explaining myself. Basically communism requires somewhat of a non corrupt society, but right at the moment %20 of the population is corrupt. With a society this large you are going to have a corrupt society or a society that relies on being corrupt. With a number of people this large you are never going to have a corruption free society. With %80 less people you will still have corruption but it will be controllable. Right now our corrupt society relies on capitalism because it in itself is corrupt. When you apply communism those corrupt people will fight back and even non-corrupt people being corrupted.

What ARE you talking about.

And do you not think that people of past societies were not corrupt due to the nature of their own political and economic system?

Of course you cannot have a corruption free society, but you eliminate corruption by eliminating the material basis for corruption.

May I ask why you even call yourself an anarchist?

Kropotesta

2nd June 2008, 19:16

Well, This actually gets a little complicated and I'm not exactly the best at explaining myself. Basically communism requires somewhat of a non corrupt society, but right at the moment %20 of the population is corrupt
In communism there are no 'officials' to be corrupted as the means of production are collectivised.

With a society this large you are going to have a corrupt society or a society that relies on being corrupt. With a number of people this large you are never going to have a corruption free society.
Any evidence?

With %80 less people you will still have corruption but it will be controllable.
Corruption of what?

Right now our corrupt society relies on capitalism because it in itself is corrupt. When you apply communism those corrupt people will fight back and even non-corrupt people being corrupted.
That is the revolution.

hekmatista

2nd June 2008, 20:07

Sectarianism aside: How are we going to overthrow capitalism? What groups are actively trying and where will it be overthrown first?
Last first: Most likely a country with fairly well-developed industry, a large proletariat relative to the rural population, a weak domestic bourgeoisie, but not totally dominated by the imperial centers, a communist movement that does not put any stock in the "revolutionary" potential of the the National bourgeoisie, and is a storm center of interimperialist rivalry. Sure sounds like Iran to me.

jetpen

3rd June 2008, 01:36

Without oil, without coal, does globalized capitalism overthrow itself? Peak energy circa 2050?

Voice_of_Reason

3rd June 2008, 04:28

Any evidence?

The corrupt need corruption and depend on it take it away and they fight back.

Corruption of what?

Just corruption as a whole. Wether it be economical corruption or religious corruption

That is the revolution.

Yes, but there are not nearly enuff people willing to fight.

Voice_of_Reason

3rd June 2008, 04:33

What ARE you talking about.

Well Read.

And do you not think that people of past societies were not corrupt due to the nature of their own political and economic system?

Yes and past societies had less freedom than we do currently

Of course you cannot have a corruption free society, but you eliminate corruption by eliminating the material basis for corruption.

Corruption doesn't have to be on a material basis

May I ask why you even call yourself an anarchist?

an·ar·chy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /ˈænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngərhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.

gla22

3rd June 2008, 05:14

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NO.

You are saying you are an Anarchist because you believe in chaos. These forums are for people who subscribe by "3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society." that definition.

cenv

3rd June 2008, 05:55

Corruption doesn't have to be on a material basisSo... corruption just spontaneously occurs with absolutely no material cause?:confused:

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.Can I point you to this excellent resource (http://infoshop.org/faq/index.html)?

Organic Revolution

3rd June 2008, 08:46

R_P_A_S

3rd June 2008, 08:55

Just research.. everywhere you look there's some struggle.. some small some large. some communist, some socialist others reforms and so forth. eventually more and more people and generations will join either or a new one sense capitalism is an unsustainable way of life.. it will crack, how and when? It's everyones guess.

Plagueround

3rd June 2008, 09:43

Without oil, without coal, does globalized capitalism overthrow itself? Peak energy circa 2050?

Probably not. Capitalists will work on renewable energy sources to keep things going. You may see some energy crises that will make economies take a hit, but I don't think it will crush capitalism in the way you're thinking.
The reason you're seeing a lot of alternative energy talk these days isn't because corporations suddenly started giving a damn about the environment. They A. Realize they are running out of the product they are selling right now and/or B. Recognize the lucrative market in "green" products and promoting your company as environmentally sound.
A widespread crash of the system won't automatically change the mindset of the people.

Kropotesta

3rd June 2008, 10:02

The corrupt need corruption and depend on it take it away and they fight back.
That's ridiculous, and this isn't evidence either.

Just corruption as a whole. Wether it be economical corruption or religious corruption
Assuming we're talking about a successful revolution, that wouldn't be a problem to overcome. Just look at how the majority of the population are treating modern religion, for example scientology, people aren't that guliable.

Yes, but there are not nearly enuff people willing to fight.
That's why it is not time for revolution yet.

Kropotesta

3rd June 2008, 10:05

an·ar·chy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngAudio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/ˈænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngərhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngki/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.
:(
Please stop referring to yourself as an anarchist

Post-Something

3rd June 2008, 12:34

The truth of the matter is for Capitalism to be overthrown we need to lose about 80% of our population.

wtf is this shit!?!?

Well, This actually gets a little complicated and I'm not exactly the best at explaining myself. Basically communism requires somewhat of a non corrupt society, but right at the moment %20 of the population is corrupt. With a society this large you are going to have a corrupt society or a society that relies on being corrupt. With a number of people this large you are never going to have a corruption free society. With %80 less people you will still have corruption but it will be controllable. Right now our corrupt society relies on capitalism because it in itself is corrupt. When you apply communism those corrupt people will fight back and even non-corrupt people being corrupted....um.

I think you have to understand that the idea of communism is to take away the means in which people can be corrupt. For example, too much authority and power, being able to own the means of production privately etc. It doesn't matter if people are corrupt or not. Whether I wanted to rape someone or not, if there was nobody around, it wouldn't happen. Under communism, you can't really be corrupt, since everybody owns everything and there is true democracy. Nobody has an advantage over anyone else, and nobody can exploit.

an·ar·chy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngAudio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/ˈænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngərhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngki/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.OH LAWD

Man, we spend so much time trying to tell people what anarchy and communism really mean, trying to take away all these conceptions.

Anarchy is not chaos
Anarchy is not disorder
Anarchy is not disorganization
Anarchy is not what you think it is

Anarchy is a society without hierarchy or class etc, but that by DOES NOT mean it is disorderly.

Sender

4th June 2008, 23:32

"an·ar·chy Audio Help/ˈænərki/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished."

Might I ask, but random website did you gooogle to copy and paste that shit? XD

gla22

4th June 2008, 23:45

I think revleft needs a purge. :lol::lol:

rampantuprising

5th June 2008, 01:43

Well, This actually gets a little complicated and I'm not exactly the best at explaining myself. Basically communism requires somewhat of a non corrupt society, but right at the moment %20 of the population is corrupt. With a society this large you are going to have a corrupt society or a society that relies on being corrupt. With a number of people this large you are never going to have a corruption free society. With %80 less people you will still have corruption but it will be controllable. Right now our corrupt society relies on capitalism because it in itself is corrupt. When you apply communism those corrupt people will fight back and even non-corrupt people being corrupted.

.......what? how can you determine that a certain percentage of the general population is corrupt?

Dimentio

5th June 2008, 07:32

Dimentio

5th June 2008, 12:05

Well Read.

Yes and past societies had less freedom than we do currently

Corruption doesn't have to be on a material basis

an·ar·chy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngAudio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/ˈænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngərhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngki/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.

Chaos!!! Rarrrrgh!!! Destruction!!! Anarchy!! I'm so cool muttafukkah!!! Sid Vicious FTW!!!! :P

Lord Testicles

5th June 2008, 14:23

Corruption doesn't have to be on a material basis

an·ar·chy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngAudio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/ˈænhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngərhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngki/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a state of society without government or law. 2.political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith.

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.

http://pixdaus.com/pics/B5YHQa2TidZNZKPUVC.jpg

Black Dagger

5th June 2008, 14:31

Anarchy as a basis requires chaos and disorder. Which many such as I believe that it would require chaos to an extreeme course and the population would be severly deplenished.

That is one defintion of 'anarchy' to be sure, but it is purely colloquial - the 'popular' definition - the one the rich folks and bosses use.

'Anarchy' for anarchists is something a little different. The elimination of all oppressive hierarchy, all domination, coercion and exploitation from human relations...engendered at present by capitalist social relations - wage labour - and mediated by the domination and oppression of government. And in their stead a society organised (this is the bit you seem to be missing) on the basis of liberty, equality and solidarity – through a horizontal network of free and voluntary associations. Anarchy without order is not anarchy but chaos - and in chaos are the seeds for tyranny, exploitation, violence and oppression.

tanuki_time

5th June 2008, 14:32

I don't imagine that many forum members here are actual Communist Party members. The first step for change would be to actually join the party. The CPUSA exists all over the country and always excepts members. They are very progressive and action oriented. Look them up!

Dimentio

5th June 2008, 20:03

Wake Up

5th June 2008, 21:58

Convincing who I call, the 'bourgeois with a conscience' to join us is the first step in any revolution in the west.

By 'bourgeois with a conscience' I mean the people who are by definition bourgeois but empathize with the workers and are aware to the fact that their is a huge injustice in this world. But a combination of,

1. lack of knowledge
2. True bourgeois propaganda
3. Cant be bothered-ism (otherwise known as, 'not in my backyard' syndrome)

stops them from becoming revolutionaries.

correcting no.1 will go a long way towards correcting 2 and 3.