"good" examples of socialism

[mykittyhasaboner]

im debating with a staunch anti-communist, and hes not just spewing bullshit out of his mouth, he actually knows what hes talking about. im in need of some good examples of socialism actually working decently, ive already used anarchist catalonia, the paris commune, and the rapid industrialization of socialist countries. heres the link if you want to check it out, the first post is in the middle of the second page.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=62813&page=6

thanks in advance.

[BIG BROTHER]

Talk about yugoslavia. After WWII they were still a very backwards country, and the very little industry that they had, was destroyed. Yet they rose, and industrialized pretty fast. They had really low employment and the workers self-managed their work places.

[Incendiarism]

May 1968? Various factories occupied and self-managed by the workers in south america?

[Zurdito]

Albania. Cuba. Russia before the collapse of the SU vs Russia after? Pretty much every degenerated workers state looks good next to your average under developed semi-industrialised, hyper-exploited, dominated by capitlaism third world state, and this despite being viciosuly placed under seige from the outside by those which already controlled global markets long before these states overthrew capitalism.

so really, this guy can take it or leave it.

[RoterAnarchie]

albania? the poorest country of europe? not such a great example i'dd say

[lombas]

- Cuba
- Paris Commune
- USSR
- Yugoslavia
- DDR
- Romania (perhaps ignore Ceaucescu II)
- The welfare state (social democrats' neoliberal policies of the last decade or so are a bummer)
- South America
- Various African and Mideastern countries

[Dros]

gpcr!

[Zurdito]

albania? the poorest country of europe? not such a great example i'dd say

Albania is still a command economy?

[UndergroundConnexion]

Take Latin America or Africa , and indicate the the countries which are doing the best , which are the most liveable for everybody , are socialist countries .

[Sam_b]

DDR

How was the DDR 'good' in any sense of the word?

[lombas]

How was the DDR 'good' in any sense of the word?

Seems quite obvious: citizens of the DDR had a high standard of living and were effectively more social (remember: the nazis scored high there before world war ii).

[Cossack]

The Corrupt U.S.A backed "Democracy" of Cuba compared to Cuba under Fidel

[Kropotesta]

None.

[communard resolution]

Talk about yugoslavia. After WWII they were still a very backwards country, and the very little industry that they had, was destroyed. Yet they rose, and industrialized pretty fast. They had really low employment and the workers self-managed their work places.

Yugoslavia probably had the happiest working class of the 20th century, which is what ultimately matters the most. I met many, many people from the former Yugoslav republics who had lived through it, and regardless what individual political views they hold now, not one person could think of anything negative to say in regards to life in Tito's Yugoslavia.

[communard resolution]

PS - if your anti-communist bud starts banging on about how many people Tito's partisan army killed immediately after WW2, just let him know that most of those people were Nazis, Ustashe fascists, and to some extent their supporters. If he still has a problem with that, let him.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yugoslavia probably had the happiest working class of the 20th century, which is what ultimately matters the most. I met many, many people from the former Yugoslav republics who had lived through it, and regardless what individual political views they hold now, not one person could think of anything negative to say in regards to life in Tito's Yugoslavia.

yea coming from a titoist himself, you must be giving me super unbiased information:lol:

no but really, it was probably true that yugoslavian workers to some extent were far better off than the ones in both the capitalist side, and the ones in the soviet union.

[communard resolution]

yea coming from a titoist himself, you must be giving me super unbiased information

See, I tried to be really objective and unbiased for a minute, and what you've read is what I came up with. :lol:


no but really, it was probably true that yugoslavian workers to some extent were far better off than the ones in both the capitalist side, and the ones in the soviet union.

I don't think they were that bad off in the USSR, at least not according to some Russians I spoke to. Things were pretty terrible for workers in some of the other Eastern Block states e.g. Poland, which is where I'm originally from.

As for Yugoslavia, the average working day ended at 2pm, and people still earned enough money to live off - how's that for starters?

[BIG BROTHER]

See, I tried to be really objective and unbiased for a minute, and what you've read is what I came up with. :lol:



I don't think they were that bad off in the USSR, at least not according to some Russians I spoke to. Things were pretty terrible for workers in some of the other Eastern Block states e.g. Poland, which is where I'm originally from.

As for Yugoslavia, the average working day ended at 2pm, and people still earned enough money to live off - how's that for starters?

well is a lot better than working cleaning houses until 6, 7 p.m.

[communard resolution]

Certainly is. The overwhelming majority of Yugoslavs will tell you: 'Yugoslavia was a country where people had fun. Now it's all about money.'

[mykittyhasaboner]

thanks for all the help, i gave up on the little debate i had, the guy is clearly never going to accept anything i say. whatever he can be a reactionary asshole if he wants...

Yugoslavia probably had the happiest working class of the 20th century, which is what ultimately matters the most. I met many, many people from the former Yugoslav republics who had lived through it, and regardless what individual political views they hold now, not one person could think of anything negative to say in regards to life in Tito's Yugoslavia.
i come from an entirely yugoslav background, and i see this to be true according to ALL of my family members, and the people i met there. the guy i was debating actually told me that Yugoslavia was only good because it was more capitalist than any other socialist country....whatever that means.

[Sam_b]

citizens of the DDR had a high standard of living

You're the first person i've ever heard say this. Where's your evidence?

I don't think an isolationist state that shot citizens for trying to leave can be seen as a 'good example of socialism'.

[communard resolution]

You're the first person i've ever heard say this. Where's your evidence?

I don't think an isolationist state that shot citizens for trying to leave can be seen as a 'good example of socialism'.

Materially, they did have a high standard of living. They may not have had great cars or bananas, but other than that they were fine as far as food and basic needs - unlike countries such as Poland.

As for freedom of speech and press in the DDR/GDR, that was a different matter entirely...