Is Objectification the Same as De-Subjectification?

[Dros]

A lot of people criticize certain elements of culture for being "objectifying". (I'm mainly referring to certain strands of feminism here but certainly there are others).

I don't think that objectification is in and of itself a bad thing. The bad thing is when that objectification also de-subjectifies.

Do you agree?

Do you think that objectification necessarily leads to de-subjectification?

Further thoughts?

[eyedrop]

Could you clearify what you mean by de-subjectification.

Imo it's nothing wrong with being seen, or see someone, as a sexual being. The problem comes when the view comes at a cost of being seen as a fully human being, or just look at someone as a sexual object and nothing else. Or rather the problem comes when sexual objectification appears where it should not. Objectifiying (or rather focusing on that aspect of the person) someone in sexual encounters or in the bedroom is fine by me, but it becomes wrong when someone is sexually objectified when one are reviewing how good a person is to assemble cars. As it is rather how good the person is at assembling cars that counts. Ones looks, or lack of, should count for nothing in such a case. In a purely sexual relationship (as if that is gonna happen) where one only meet once a week for mutual sexual pleasure , I fail to see any inherit wrongs with just viewing your partner in a purely sexual way as that would be the only aspect of the personality that would matter for your relationship.

I'm not really sure that I properly understood what you meant.

[Dros]

The problem comes when the view comes at a cost of being seen as a fully human being, or just look at someone as a sexual object and nothing else.

That's what I mean by de-subjectification. When someone loses their perceived subjectivity.

[Dean]

A lot of people criticize certain elements of culture for being "objectifying". (I'm mainly referring to certain strands of feminism here but certainly there are others).

I don't think that objectification is in and of itself a bad thing. The bad thing is when that objectification also de-subjectifies.

Do you agree?

Do you think that objectification necessarily leads to de-subjectification?

Further thoughts?

Objectification implies to take something out of a human sense, i.e. the world is round objectively. The concept is that the world is necessarily a certain way. A subjective view comes from a specific person, sometimes this refers to bias.

With reference to women, objectification means to make a woman into an object, presumably in the sense that you don't view a woman as having human traits, or having a human sense of the world.

[Dros]

Objectification implies to take something out of a human sense, i.e. the world is round objectively. The concept is that the world is necessarily a certain way. A subjective view comes from a specific person, sometimes this refers to bias.

There are two different but related meanings of the word objective. The first is as you say. The second comes out of grammar. An object is the thing to which an action is done.


With reference to women, objectification means to make a woman into an object, presumably in the sense that you don't view a woman as having human traits, or having a human sense of the world.

I was referring to the second definition. In this case, I think "objectify", when applied to women means to see them as the object of an action and does not necessarily connote the dehumanization that you are referring to.

I would be really interested to here some female opinions on this question.

[TC]

the words object and subject are so useful that they're unfortunately used in very different ways by different speakers in different contexts and its necessary to define terms clearly.