Cappies, Enlighten Me - Here is my description.....

[j]

OK. So I've been around Che-Lives for about 5 or 6 months and I've been in all of the forums and on marxchat and so on and so on. I've debated supporters of capitalism and have been insulted and so on and so on.

So, it brings me to this thread. I want to know if the following description is accurate of my capitalist foes. Cappies, please critique me in anyway so that I better understand your point of view.

Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market (from dictionary.com).

My understanding of the tenants of capitalism are numbered:

1. Private people (or corporations) own the means of production.

2. Production is driven by supply and demand economics. In a free market, the amount of goods produced will be at the intersecting point of the supply curve and the demand curve (if graphed).

3. Those private people or corporations that own the means of production respond solely to maximizing profits and keeping the supply/demand graph in relative equalibrium.

4. The people who do not own the means of production are workers whose duty is to maximize profits for the corporation/owner and get the reward of a salary, etc. for their work.

5. The workers are varied and include everyone from sectretaries, to middle managers, to janitors. All of them working for the benefit of the corporation/owner but getting the benefit of a salary for their work.

6. If one works hard enough, regardless of obstacles, one can succeed. They need to get off the couch and pull their proverbial bootstraps.

7. It is a choice whether one works or not. If one chooses not to work then he/she does not get the said benefit of a salary/wage due to the fact that he/she has chosen not to work.

8. Capitalism is preferable to communism because it allows for advancement and incentive for working dilligently for the owner/corporation.

Alright. Now, here are your arguments AGAINST communism/socialism in my own words/summation:

1. Communism is wrong because there is no incentive for working hard. The assumption is that people are inherintly lazy or there is at least the presumption that a significant minority will fall into the lazy category.

2. Communism is oppressive. The arts are not allowed to flouish and you do not have freedom of speech and expression.

3. Communism is anti-American. We fought the cold war and won. We defeated the evil of communism and regardless of whether or not the USSR was really communist is besides the point--we fought and beat the Russians.

Cappies, please respond. I am interested in your feedback.

j

[American Kid]

Exactly, cheers.

[Capitalist Imperial]

pretty much

hey, AK, the onion rules!

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 2:17 pm on Sep. 19, 2002)

[Anonymous]

"1. Communism is wrong because there is no incentive for working hard. The assumption is that people are inherintly lazy or there is at least the presumption that a significant minority will fall into the lazy category. "

Balantly wrong, comunism incentives people to work, capitalism on the other hand preaches the work hard sited ona desk theory, were you sit all day on a desk all day looking to a Pc and then extenuated tired of looking at the same shit all day you say "ahh i worked hard today!" comunism does insiperes people to work the enough not 80% to work hard wile 20% scratch theyr valls because they have money and power,

"2. Communism is oppressive. The arts are not allowed to flouish and you do not have freedom of speech and expression. "

this stupid statement as ben alredy said, and its balantly wrong, stalinism (China USSR Cuba etc) is opressive, comunism isnt! if you notice some of the most important artists/writers are socialists (Picasso/Saramago/George Orwell etc....)

"3. Communism is anti-American. We fought the cold war and won. We defeated the evil of communism and regardless of whether or not the USSR was really communist is besides the point--we fought and beat the Russians."

ok, comunism isnt anti-american, for its anti american way, sincethe american way is the cappitalist way, comunism is anti-imperialist, anti-fascist etc but not anti-american, that is balantly wrong and i shall not acept it!

Oh there are comunist partys in america! Surprised? then check this - http://www.hartford-hwp.com/cp-usa/

go on educate yourself....

you won the cold war? you beat the russians? let me laugh my friend, the cold war ended because Gorbachov was reliesing russia form repressive stalinist policys and the russian people scared and sick of stalinism demanded capitalism, poor souls they will never have true comunism ....

then my fellow cappies you once again confused comunism with stalinism e«wich is just another form of fascism, and if i was you i would think twice before say anithing stupid like you jsut said......

[Anonymous]

"8. Capitalism is preferable to communism because it allows for advancement and incentive for working dilligently for the owner/corporation. "

(ups i forgot this one!!)

since when kiss some fat rich asshole´s but for a tiny raise incentives work?

cappitalism putes production over people, if the company isnt profiting the enough what do they do? fire some ppl, raise the price of the products, in the third world, a nike factory opens, good work for some ppl, yet 18 hours a day isnt work isnt work is slavery, 1 dolar per weak isnt money is charity and lousy charity, capitlaism creates slaves in third world counrtys so that 20% can work "honourable" jobs, and everything taht need to be said about capitalsim can be said in one sentence


"CAPITALISM SUCKS!"

no need to say more

[j]

Just so there's no mistake. I am NOT A CAPITALIST. In case anyone was wondering. I was just trying to make sure I completely understood the other's point of view.

"3. Those private people or corporations that own the means of production respond solely to maximizing profits and keeping the supply/demand graph in relative equalibrium."

This statement irks me. Responding solely to profit is rather inhumane. This is what strikes me about capitalism. When you respond solely to profit, people get hurt. Whether its cutting costs by dumping waste into a river that eventually infects a community (see Woburn, MA late 80s...they also made a movie about it with Travolta) or sending jobs overseas to a sweatshop where people, often children, are working in deplorable conditions.

Another example could be NBC airing a consumer warning about faulty electrical appliances but fails to mention GE because GE owns NBC and the shareholders of GE could sue for failure to maximize profits. In turn, someone gets hurt by that GE appliance.

"6. If one works hard enough, regardless of obstacles, one can succeed. They need to get off the couch and pull their proverbial bootstraps. "

This, of course, is a blatant lie. Racial and sexual discrimination is in full practice across this country. There are many who lack the health coverage to be treated for mental illness and pulling the bootstraps is an impossibility. Its also hard to pull your bootstraps when your boots are stuck in a thick mud (ie racism, discrimination, poverty, etc.)

These are just two biggies that I pulled out of my own post. I would like to hear a response from my cappie foes on why I am wrong. I would also like to see a cappie attempt what I did and prove to me that you fully understand the commie/socialist point of view.

j