FAO: "Capitalist Imperial" - Reference to Quote.

[Terminal Frost]

In your thread regarding "fake Commies" you asked the question:


How does Capitalism take away your rights?

I didn't see an answer on the thread, so I'll thread it here.

Capitalism is unique as an economic system in that it takes away almost every right indirectly. In a capitalist society the individual is a slave. As Richard Ashcroft would say "You're a slave to the money then you die".

By presenting the individual with only one option other than poverty:

1) Claw your way tooth and nail up the economic ladder, by shitting on everyone else in a pitiful attempt to gain wealth and status to somehow put meaning to your shallow existence.


This is the slavery of capitalism. Dollar chasing. Bound to the pound. The CEO of Starbucks makes a fortune, whilst the coffee-growers in the LEDC's are starving to death, drinking unsanitary water, and living in horrific conditions. All in the name of profits.

Your rights get taken away by the inhumanity of Capitalism, the antagonistic system where it's every man for himself. "I'm all right Jack, keep your hands off my stack."

That's how it takes away your rights and your civility. Wraps you up in greed.





CI, if you want to flame this then go ahead, I'm not expecting anything else. If however, you want to make this into a decent discussion, then I'll be willing.



Malte: Now although I'm well aware that this should come under the theory section, but as CI is a Capitalist, it's in here.

(Edited by Terminal Frost at 11:31 pm on Sep. 17, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

I'm feelin what youy are saying and why this is obviously true I hate capitalism simply for the pure fact that it can never be equal.

I'm just tired of seeing poor people, I'm tired of the rich assholes.

And I'm not saying this cuz I'm rich.

but alot of rich people can be assholes.

[Terminal Frost]

Too true my friend, too true.

CI must think so too. He's online now, but yet to reply to this thread.

I don't live in the Land of Hypocracy [TM], but I still see the same every day.

Rich assholes shitting on the poor. Spending more on their fuel bills for their "11 miles to the gallon" trucks than on any charity.

Answer me this: If you live alone, and use your car to shop and commute to work, then why does it have to be able to seat 12 people and to navigate arctic tundra?

I'll never know.

[Capitalist Imperial]

"Capitalism is unique as an economic system in that it takes away almost every right indirectly. In a capitalist society the individual is a slave. As Richard Ashcroft would say "You're a slave to the money then you die". "


slave Pronunciation Key (slv)
n.

1.One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.

2.One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: I was still the slave of educationb and prejudice (Edward Gibbon).

3.One who works extremely hard.

4.A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

By definition, the only way that this word applies in by example # 3.

Don't twist semantics, Terminal Frost.

The key difference, sir: Choice.

"By presenting the individual with only one option other than poverty:
1) Claw your way tooth and nail up the economic ladder, by shitting on everyone else in a pitiful attempt to gain
wealth and status to somehow put meaning to your shallow existence."

oh. do you mean that someone actually has to work for a living? Wow! imagine that

as oppsed to communism, where you are more like a true slave, being forced to work in a carreer that you may not even like, but the state won't let you change, and you still live at overty level

in capitalism, one has much, much, much more freedom to choose how he lives his/her life, no one forces anything on you

his is the slavery of capitalism. Dollar chasing. Bound to the pound. The CEO of Starbucks makes a fortune, whilst the coffee-growers in the LEDC's are starving to death, drinking unsanitary water, and living in horrific conditions. All in the name of profits.

Your rights get taken away by the inhumanity of Capitalism, the antagonistic system where it's every man for himself. "I'm all right Jack, keep your hands off my stack."

That's how it takes away your rights and your civility. Wraps you up in greed.


these are dogmatic blanket staements, they are simplistic and stereotypical of what capitalism is, and highly inaccurate

you willl need to come up with more than that to make a point here

[Lardlad95]

DOn't say that dogmatic/stereotype bullshit cuz you play that card also.

You once said because I was socialist I wanted to opress people.

Take your own advice and ldon't use stereotypes.



Also you do realize that slave can be used in different contexts.

Examples

"He's a slave to his emotions"

or

"He's a slave for the almighty dollar"

[Pinko]

[Capitalist Imperial]

as oppsed to communism, where you are more like a true slave, being forced to work in a carreer that you may not even like, but the state won't let you change, and you still live at overty level

You assume that there is no choice in what job you do in communism. There is no reason why in a communist culture, there should not be choice. Actually there should be more choice. I know someone who would dearly love to be a carpenter, but there isn't the money in the trade that they require to support their family and home, so he stays in an unfulfilling desk job and comes home miserable every night. In a communist society there is no wage difference to influence your choice, so you can do what you want. If a job is oversubscribed, there will be no way into that type of work, much like a capitalist society.
The laws of supply and demand are still in effect, people are just not trying to make money from it.

(Edited by Pinko at 12:39 am on Sep. 18, 2002)

[El Che]

Your answer is comical CI.

The arguement is simple: the role of the bourgeoisie within the economic system in question, infringes on the rights of the workers. And therefore something must be done to correct this injustice

To this very simple point you counter nothing. You refer to marginal issues but cautiously avoid the point its self. You know no leftist well let you get away with it, you know its the one thing all left agrees on and you know, very simply, that its right.

So what do you do? you answer with "there is no other way" arguments. The workers can organise them selves, they need the bourgeoisie. Or human freedom depends on the flexibility of the Capital/Labor dichotomy. This is nothing new, and these arguments are of course rubbish.

If something is wrong you have to fix it, untill you do humanity will remain with a thorn on its side. There is another way, we just have to find. And the first step, to doing just that, is recognising your (i.e society) sick, then you can start treating the disease.

[canikickit]

Don't twist semantics, Terminal Frost.

Don't be so fucking pedantic, Capitalist Imperial. You are getting twited up in semantics, you schmuck. Every single one of you fucking "cappies" seems completely wrapped up in the idea that communism was bad before so it can never be good. You are so fucking close-minded.
Check this out:

communism:
1 a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed.
Do you really, honestly think that this would be so bad?

[Terminal Frost]

There was no twisting of semantics. My main point was that Capitalism, unlike preceeding systems such as mercantilism, controls through indirect slavery.

It seems to me that your perspective is clouded by your point of reference in regards to a "typical" Communist state.

Your argument generally stems from the notion that in a Socialist society one is bound to a manual job, that is forced upon a person, regardless of their skills, education or preferences. This is a stereotypical view, and contributes to the fundamental flaw in your argument.

If you are to take the former USSR as a reference point, then your close-minded opinions are bound to be enforced. As a third-world country it is obvious that the stadard of living was not as high as the standards of the "American Dream". However, the standard was equal, and since Capitalisation has declined greatly. If you want figures I'll dig them up and reference them for you mate.

"you mean that someone actually has to work for a living"

Work is different than exploitation. And wouldn't it be better if instead of working for our OWN living, we worked for everyone's benefit?



Your main problem [and Cappie's in general] is that you compare Socialist states to the US. Comparing third-world countries to first-world ones. Unfortunately, Communist revolutions have always taken place in LEDC's.

Compare the standard of living in a Socialist LEDC with the standard of living in a Capitalist LEDC.

Cuba has the best quality healthcare and education in Latin America. There is no rich upper-class to exploit the masses and sap the flow of cash. It all goes towards making peoples lives better. Unlike in the US, where it goes towards some CEO's new outdoor pool.

Think about it logically.

[Guest]

well stated comrade

[Terminal Frost]

Aw, CI.

He started a reasonably good argument, a few quotes and the word dogmatic, but now he's buggered off and won't reply.

Honestly, you can't even have a decent argument with an infidel these days.....

:)